Dropfleet Commander News - Kickstarter orders being dispatched - Ongoing!

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**Silent Puffin?**

Mantle wrote:
So how likely do we think this will hit 500k?

Its quite likely, people tend to put of backing until the last couple of days so there will be a big spike at the end of the campaign. Its currently in a bit of a slump but thats common for all KS projects at this stage.

**jSewell**

I'm hoping they either making the UCM battle cruiser not one per pledge and make it where you can pick any combination for the 4 battle cruisers. I'd like more than one UCM battle cruiser and I'm sure there are some people who would rather have no UCM battle cruisers. If it comes down to it, could always trade with my friends pledging to focus on other factions

**Weidekuh**

I play Resistance in DZC and I'm totally fine that there is no Resistance fleet in DFC. it wouldn't make sense anyway.

BUT how can you still play linked campaigns with Resistance as a ground army?

1. Play Allied Resistance. You have the UCM covering you in space (DFC) and you do the dirty work on the ground (DZC).

2. Play Feral Resistance. You told the UCM to evacuate your people aboard their ships. Then you betrayed them and were able to capture a lot of ships that way. You may even had help from the PHR doing this. (Read the fluff of the Asgard System from Reconquest: Phase 1). This is probably how i will play it fo funsies.

3. Play whatever Resistance. A UCM expedition fleet into an enemy system got cought off and has now to survive. During this struggle for survival it allies up with a huge Resistance group from the planet they are in orbit. During this fight for survival both sides build up a very close friendship. In an act of blinded grandeur they declare together a new society and that they will defend against anyone that doesn't adhere to their beliefs. They may even see the future UCM actions as hostile.

4. As a feral Resistance you may even play PHR in DFC and feral Resistance on the ground. PHR has been known to support many UCM hostile resistance groups.

5. The Shaltari have already tried to use Humans to fight for them. It's not unrealistic to think that on a wartorn planet some Resistance groups have formed some kind of alliance with a Shaltari tribe.

Be creative. The fluff of this universe gives you enough examples that the Resistance groups are not all happy to see the UCM coming back for a reconquest...

Oh and if you're that interested in fluff, read the Dropzone Rulebook and the Reconquest: Phase 1 expansion. Loved reading them. The fluff is great!

**Duncan_Idaho**

@ Silent
You are not aware how much a set of form for one faction costs. One faction starter in plastic costs around 100k.

The goal is only there to get the production started faster. Only somehwere between 300 and 400K Hawk does no longer need to add their own money to get the starters made. The KS never was there to get the game made it was there to speed up production.

**chaos0xomega**

Thunderfrog wrote:
Thokt wrote:
Thunderfrog wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
Im a bit confused as to why people would expect the resistance to have a fleet in the first place, it really makes no logical sense.

You honestly can't understand why people would want the faction they pay for and play to show up in a new game that could very well be the development focus for the next year or so? Not everyone would put fluff sanctity over being able to stick to their own faction.

I don't think he's confused about why anyone would want their faction to exist in the new game, but confused as to why anyone would expect the resistance to exist in it given the fluff is pretty explicit on the matter.

New fluff including Resistance is the only reason I purchased DZC to start with. I started in phase 2, probably unlike most of the folks in this thread. As a customer, it's easy to feel swindled.

You find a game you are newly exposed to.

You purchase a faction within that game, which didn't exist until fluff writers said it did.

Game expansion comes out. Everyone else gets new things. You do not. Grognards on the internet tell you that you should never have expected it because fluff tells you it's improbable. New fluff is written easily. Someone scoffed at Resistance using scavenged ship parts, but they use scavenged Scourge bits for guns in a couple of places. They also have an alliance with either UCM or PHR, depending on your flavor.

It's less like wanting Tyranids in AoS (which was a jackass comparison to be honest) and more like wanting Guard Flyers, since Space Marines and Tau got flyers. Considering the talk about campaign scenarios where what happens in the air affects the ground, I'd say it's not so radical an expectation. Either way, why the hostile tones? Is Hawk above criticism? Are we only allowed to talk bad about GW?

Its not an expansion, its a whole new game. They are including rules for linked battles, yes, but that doesnt mean you have to use them (generally speaking, most wont). If you are playing a campaign and want to use resistance, than get the ok from your gaming group to use a UCM fleet instead if youre so bothered by it, its really not that complicated.

**CthuluIsSpy**

chaos0xomega wrote:
Thunderfrog wrote:
Thokt wrote:
Thunderfrog wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
Im a bit confused as to why people would expect the resistance to have a fleet in the first place, it really makes no logical sense.

You honestly can't understand why people would want the faction they pay for and play to show up in a new game that could very well be the development focus for the next year or so? Not everyone would put fluff sanctity over being able to stick to their own faction.

I don't think he's confused about why anyone would want their faction to exist in the new game, but confused as to why anyone would expect the resistance to exist in it given the fluff is pretty explicit on the matter.

New fluff including Resistance is the only reason I purchased DZC to start with. I started in phase 2, probably unlike most of the folks in this thread. As a customer, it's easy to feel swindled.

You find a game you are newly exposed to.

You purchase a faction within that game, which didn't exist until fluff writers said it did.

Game expansion comes out. Everyone else gets new things. You do not. Grognards on the internet tell you that you should never have expected it because fluff tells you it's improbable. New fluff is written easily. Someone scoffed at Resistance using scavenged ship parts, but they use scavenged Scourge bits for guns in a couple of places. They also have an alliance with either UCM or PHR, depending on your flavor.

It's less like wanting Tyranids in AoS (which was a jackass comparison to be honest) and more like wanting Guard Flyers, since Space Marines and Tau got flyers. Considering the talk about campaign scenarios where what happens in the air affects the ground, I'd say it's not so radical an expectation. Either way, why the hostile tones? Is Hawk above criticism? Are we only allowed to talk bad about GW?

Its not an expansion, its a whole new game. They are including rules for linked battles, yes, but that doesnt mean you have to use them (generally speaking, most wont). If you are playing a campaign and want to use resistance, than get the ok from your gaming group to use a UCM fleet instead if youre so bothered by it, its really not that complicated.

Its actually pretty fluffy for the resistance to rely on a UCM fleet, as there are resistance factions that have close ties with the UCM.
Just field some of those special UCM units in your resistance army and you are good to go.

A bit trickier with non-UCM factions though. Like, you can't say that the PHR or Shaltari are dropping down soldiers to help the resistance, as there are no units like that.
I really hope they introduce special PHR / Shaltari units in the next DZC expansion.
Can you imagine some sort of PHR assassin unit with a kickass sniper rifle in a resistance army?

**Silent Puffin?**

Duncan_Idaho wrote:
@ Silent
You are not aware how much a set of form for one faction costs. One faction starter in plastic costs around 100k.

I find that figure to be extremely unlikely.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

It will depend how you cost things,

'just' cutting a steel tool ? no, of course not

paying one or more staff members to design/playtest the game, expand the background, etc (divided by 4), art and design for the new ships, digital sculpting for the new ships (inc a bunch of test printing etc), then cut the required tools and paying for them to be used to press the number of sprues to fulfil the KS and for final retail

I would not be surprised if you count all those cost you could get there (especially if we're talking the more ubiquitous $ rather than £ or Euros)

**Krinsath**

Silent Puffin? wrote:
Duncan_Idaho wrote:
@ Silent
You are not aware how much a set of form for one faction costs. One faction starter in plastic costs around 100k.

I find that figure to be extremely unlikely.

Not sure I do; that's only 25k a tool which is pretty in line with my limited knowledge of what steel molds cost (which you'd be using for "core" products over aluminum or other materials that are cheaper but degrade); towards the higher end but they are fairly detailed tools as well. You will likely have a hull sprue and a weapons sprue for both cruisers and frigates. Multiplied out by four fleets, with the addition of the tool(s) for the flight bases and I don't see where it's outlandish for the final tally for the 4 starters to be in the realm of 400k.

**RiTides**

It all depends on how they're having this done (and they're much more experienced!) but it's not just tool cost of course, it's the cost of the production run of plastic. Even at a low cost per shot, once you factor in spreading out the tool cost as well, it adds up really quickly!

I'm really excited they're able to tool more things in plastic already though, the ordnance is going to be really useful

and are the space stations also slated for plastic?

**Silent Puffin?**

RiTides wrote:
and are the space stations also slated for plastic?

Yes, possibly more than 1 sprues worth if the concept art is anything to go by.

**Duncan_Idaho**

And you have to cut several tools in case one breaks...

**RiTides**

Duncan, that's not necessarily true - and I actually would think that is a rarity, especially for wargaming.

The cost of a tool is really high, and you don't make another "just in case" for a wargaming model. Many manufacturers will also guarantee their tools for a certain number of shots, and replace it themselves if it wears out early.

**Bolognesus**

And even if that had been true in the pantograph days of yore, nowadays you'd just store the cutting program that got it right the first time around and have them run that again in case you needed a second tool. Keeping a completely cut tool just as a backup when you're dealing with the sort of small, niche market such as wargaming is, would just be pants-on-head slowed.

**Duncan_Idaho**

Nearly all somehow succesful companies these days cut several tools. The loss in sales from a broken tool is much higher than the price of an additional tool.

And very often all tools are in use which increases output.

**RiTides**

Duncan, again, from what I've seen that isn't the case (at least for wargaming). There is also not necessarily a loss in sales from a worn-out mold... most companies will have a lot of extra stock run all at once, so if a tool were wearing out there would be time to replace it before the next production run.

In hindsight I'm wondering if you were talking about multi-cavity molds rather than separate tools. But we can always take it to PM if we want to discuss further! (edited based on biggesthat's post below, fair point

. Let's get back to talking about awesome spaceships!)

**Thebiggesthat**

This really isn't on topic.

**BobtheInquisitor**

Anyone else going to try to convert some ships out of the space station sprue and the leftover weapons from the UCM cruiser sprues? Might that be a good look for La Resistance?

**RiTides**

It might, Bob! Hard to know how it could look with just art shown for the space stations - and I'm probably not adding them on since they can be picked up locally later. But definitely excited for them

**Jehan-reznor**

On the whole resistance fleet band wagon discussion, i would expect that the resistance would use captured ships, so a rag tag fleet of all kind of ships.

**Gasmasked Mook**

I guess my problem with the Resistance is that while it is very possible to justify a rag-tag refugee convoy fleeing the Scourge or a privateer-style squadron of corvettes harassing enemy supply ships and isolated outposts, that is not what DFC seems to be about. The core mechanic of this game is fully fledged planetary assault: literally D-Day in Space with entire battalions of troops being thrown into the fray and cities being stormed. These are not things that a Resistance-style force would have as their MO (leaving aside whether or not they even have the capabilities to attempt it). This is not a space game; it is an invasion game

**RiTides**

There has been a Ton of info posted the last few days while we focused on Resistance ships and molding questions here

. Check them out on the Updates page:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hawkwargames/dropfleet-commander/updates

Two of the coolest!

Update #21 - PHR Ajax Class Cruiser - Painted!

We know there has been some serious anticipation in the run up to seeing some painted PHR models, and we are happy to announce we have the Ajax Class Cruiser for you to see. There are more photos on the Campaign Page, under the PHR.

We hope to have some more video based information about the Shaltari and PHR for you all before the end of this campaign, so there is further details about how these factions work. More will be revealed on this in due course!

Tomorrow's update will contain a lot more information about the KS Exclusive Battlecruisers that will be unlocking! As we get closer to the start of the last week of this campaign, we have some exciting things to show off...

Thanks again for your continued support in Hawk Wargames, and this Dropfleet Commander Kickstarter.

Kind regards

The Hawk Wargames Team

Update #20 - The Activation Card Pack

We’ve unlocked Activation cards, an important extra when moving from starter to larger scale games of Dropfleet Commander. How does this work and are they 100% necessary to the game? Read on…

As with Dropzone Commander, Dropfleet Commander works on an alternate activation method of gameplay. This means that instead of a player doing all their moving, shooting and deployment of ground forces at once, players take turns in activating battlegroups.

Similar to Dropzone Commander, the groups of units which activate together are battlegroups, and created by players when they make their fleet lists before the battle. Each battlegroup will be made up of a collection of ships, determined by the players. By consulting a simple table player will be able to work out the command value of each battlegroup, which become important in playing the game.

The difference in the games comes from who activates first, and when.

In Dropzone commander, players role a die and add their command value. Whoever has the higher total chooses to go first or second, and then players alternate activations until all battlegroups have activated, ending the turn.

In Dropfleet commander there is no dice off for who activates a battlegroup first. Instead, at the start of each turn players issue their fleet manoeuvre orders by way of activation cards. They choose an order that the cards will be flipped over in, and place them face down on the table in a stack. Both players then flip their first card. The cards are numbered, or, in the case of our unlocked cards, have a complete list of what is in the battlegroup on the card.

Players then compare command values of the flipped cards. Whichever battlegroup has the lower command value (i.e. 1 is low, 10 is high) gets to activate that battlegroup first or second (as the player chooses). The other player then activates the battlegroup on the card they have flipped. Once both battlegroups have activated, the players flip again and the process is repeated.

What this means is that the die roll at the start of the turn in Dropzone Commander has become a flip and compare before each battlegroups activates in Dropfleet Commander. In this way players have to work out which battle groups they want to activate in which order at the start of the turn, and also adds an element of reading your opponent to out manoeuvre / out think them and get the drop on the enemy.

To be clear, in basic terms this means:
Players create a stack of battlegroup cards.
They flip a card each, comparing command values to determine the order battlegroup activation.
Once those battlegroups have both activated, players flip again.
When both players have finished their card stacks, the turn ends.
They then decide card order, and create a stack again.

Concept for Activation cards (with Battlegroup A card shown)

The Activation cards are designed to help players with this game mechanic. Players could you anything they like, from a deck of cards to numbered chips, so long as they refer to their fleet list and are all the same on the other side. However we have created these activation cards so that players can add command values and exactly what is in each battlegroup, then flip the cards which have a battlegroup letter on them. They are for ease of use, and can be written on – players who want to re-use them over and over can add clear card sleeves and use a washable marker to make the cards completely mutable.

So how may cards are in the Activation card pack? well:

There are 8 cards labelled Battlegroup A, 8 labelled Battlegroup B etc. up to Battlegroup F, which gives players 6 battlegroups – the standard amount for a Dropfleet Commander game.

However there are also 4 labelled Battlegroup G, 2 labelled battlegroup H and two with no battlegroup label. This allows players to expand into even larger games, and also have 2 spare cards to use for whichever battlegroup they would like.

In total this makes 56 cards in one pack.

We hope this has cleared up some information about the Activation Card Pack - as useful aid to playing Dropfleet Commander.

Many thanks,

The Hawk Team

**nedTCM**

Just saw these ships. They look pretty amazing!

**BobtheInquisitor**

Oh man, those PHR ships make me need to construct additional pylons.

**Silent Puffin?**

The new Battlecruiser renders have been released. They will be available as bolt ons for £14 each.

**warboss**

The PHR stuff looks fabulous and I find the Scourge designs both disturbing and attractive in equal measure! I'm not a fan of the shaltari though personally as I find it too "busy" and crammed with detail ala the skulls popping out everywhere in AOS.

**RiTides**

Oh man, that Avalon for UCM is beautiful!

If anyone at a lower backing level wants to trade an Avalon for the Atlantis (which is only available as part of the Commander or above pledge levels, not as a bolt-on) PM me

as I would swap my Atlantis for one

**CthuluIsSpy**

I like that basilisk.
I haven't started a DZC army yet as I haven't quite settled on Scourge or PHR, but that ship might make me go Scourge.

Yes, I know that I don't have to go scourge for both systems.
I like consistency though.

**Compel**

As long as I can paint up my Scourge models as Sovereign, I'll be happy.

**Killionaire**

Compel wrote:
As long as I can paint up my Scourge models as Sovereign, I'll be happy.

That'd be perfect. Considering that I'm thinking this looks an awful lot like a UCM ship...