Dropfleet Commander News - Kickstarter orders being dispatched - Ongoing!

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**str00dles1**

Not even getting a tracking number is a pretty large fail on their part. If I had that at least I'd have a idea. I'd also be far less POed. It stings for the fact the warstore has the retail release and has already shipped people who bought it there the starter, while I sit hoping each day I'll come home to my pledge.

**Brunius**

Latest update says that was a bug in their system which has been resolved

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hawkwargames/dropfleet-commander/posts/1706986?ref=backer_project_update

**Souleater**

Yeah. I am impatiently excited for my edge to arrive.

I accept them getting it into the retail chain.

**nekooni**

str00dles1 wrote:

Of course you have a right to complain if something is handled wrong.

BUT: Products release late all the time. Including those that you preordered. Deal with it. Kickstarters ARE notorious for having a risk of delivering late.
If that's really important to you, you probably shouldn't preorder or kickstart anything as you'll get dissappointed a lot.

I'll rather have a fully tested, functional product a week or three late than an unfinished, rushed product on time. That's just my personal preference, though.
I also don't consider a KS project "failed" just because they delivered a bit later (not: a year later) than expected. It happens with enterprise level projects with 7-figure-budgets, of course it's going to happen to smaller projects, too.

This again is just a piss poor attitude to it. How will you ever help change the market if you just accept its always a crap shoot? People being upset and voicing it helps to improve how a company functions, as without its happy customers, they cease to exist.
GW is a perfect example. Sure its taken years and years, but there has been enough pissed off people that they are actually (slowly) improving their business for the consumer.

As to your fully tested comment, that was not the issue. Their issue was getting the book printed. It had nothing to do with the balance of the game or rules etc. So it coming weeks ago would make it the same game as it slowly coming out now.

I was speaking in general terms. For this KS it would probably mean "a not properly lectored rulebook with misaligned prints on low quality paper instead of the finished product we will get". And you completely ignored my introduction of "you have a right to complain", didn't you?
They handled communications very poorly and it's really unfortunate that I'll be able to buy a starter kit tomorrow at Spiel while my own pledge is still somewhere in Great Britain, waiting to be shipped.
All I'm saying is that KS are notorious for being late and if it's just the "it's late" part that annoys you, you really should stay away from crowdfunding and just wait until the product hits retail. Which, in hindsight, would've been the fastest way to get your starter fleets.

**Nodri**

Kickstarter Update 10/12/2016:

Some words from David Lewis

Posted by Hawk Wargames (Creator)

Dear Backers

We are getting into our dispatches.
We had a small hiccup last week where a number of pledges went out without notifications going out to customers. It was our intention that tracking information went out with every order, so apologies if you get your order without any tracking – we have found the error, and are ensuring that all dispatches are going out with a notification to each backer regarding their pledge. Following on from the video and Kickstarter Update last weekend,

Dave wanted to share a typed message with you all:

Firstly, we have some Feedback on the Beasts of War Weekender Kickstarter update slot. Choosing to deliver the update in video format was a conscious choice as we thought it important to convey the news verbally and in a more personal manner. Beasts of War is an ideal platform for us as we do not yet have a sophisticated video setup of our own and we felt much of it was said best via this format. I had planned a visit to Beasts of War for the purpose of promoting Dropfleet Commander, and thought it was an important time to put out a video from me about the Kickstarter.

This video was one of the last I filmed while I was there. It was unscripted and unrehearsed and as a result I didn't quite cover everything I should have. Most importantly, I did not apologise directly for the situation - I am extremely sorry that the dispatch of the pledges has not gone to plan, and that this delay has affected so many people. Omitting a clear apology was entirely unintentional and for that I'm sorry.

In my time at Beast's of War I filmed some great content to support Dropfleet Commander. The next videos will be released on October 14th, so keep an eye out for those. We will do our best to inform you all ahead of time when future content is due to go out too. This has been a challenging experience for us all in the last few weeks, but we have tried to adapt quickly to the situation. Several Hawk staff who normally work on communications are now in the warehouse assisting with packing. Getting your pledges out as fast as humanly possible is our priority.

As stated in the video update, the first wave of Dropfleet Commander’s retail launch will be going ahead as planned on October 14th. Once again we apologise for the less than ideal nature of this arrangement. Supporting all of our community, including retailers who have places where people can play the game, is one of the cornerstones of Dropfleet Commander’s future, and is very important to us. The launch had been planed far in advance for a time when we had anticipated that all pledges would have been shipped. The printing delays and subsequent logistical challenges unfortunately prevented us for realising our intentions and the current arrangement is a compromise. We have also delayed the further retail waves to ensure as much of the entire team are focused on the Kickstarter fulfilment.

You should expect another update at the start of next week to include more information on when we hope to have completed shipments of all Kickstarter pledges. The team who are managing the shipment and packing logistics are very much more in control of the situation now that the printed materials have arrived, and although I visited the warehouse yesterday, the processes are well in place to know that the daily rate of dispatch has increased to a higher level than it was previously.

The absence of an update to the Hawk Wargames website to include Dropfleet Commander is a necessary result of the additional manpower dedicated to packing. Most staff at Hawk cover multiple roles and we are of course focused on dispatch as a first priority. In addition to a final shipping date we hope to have an estimated timeframe for the launch of the revised website by early next week. A key thing to mention here, is that while we will be taking orders on the site for Dropfleet Commander products, we will NOT be shipping ANY of them until we have honoured our commitments to our backers. This will be made clear on the website also!

The penultimate point to mention, is that our retail and distribution partner in Germany will be promoting Dropfleet Commander later this week and over the weekend at Europe's biggest board gaming/tabletop convention – SPIEL. A small Hawk Team not involved in the packing process (including myself) will be on hand to assist them with English language demos and to answer any questions attendees might have for us. As this is launch weekend, they will have a limited quantity of wave 1 Dropfleet stock on hand in addition to the complete Dropzone Commander range. We look forward to seeing some of you there! You can find us in Hall 2, at booth 2-F160.

Finally, I would like again to reiterate that we are doing our utmost to get your pledges out to you as fast as we can and to apologise sincerely for the delay in your pledges, for the delay in communication and for the retail release of the game coming before all the pledges had been sent out.

Thank you all for your continued support, understanding and patience,

- David Lewis,
Director, Hawk Wargames

Edit: Just noticed that Brunius posted the link already, but I'll leave the full text here for easy reading.

**mdauben**

Alpharius wrote:
And (x) here is, again, NOT that it would ship by (y), but that the backers would receive their pledges before retail.

I guess I see the issue, but I honestly don't quite understand why its such a big deal? If they held back the retail release, it would not get the product into the backers hands any sooner. Not saying you are wrong, but I've seen this on other KS and never really got it.

Maybe its just because its not a big deal to me that I'm not as sympathetic to those who see it as a major issue. I pledge to a KS because I think its a cool product that I want to see put into production, or because of the discount price and/or cool freebies included, not because getting it a week before it reaches retail matters to me. I do agree that they could have handled the communications better. That does seem to be a recurring problem with many KS.

**str00dles1**

mdauben wrote:
Alpharius wrote:
And (x) here is, again, NOT that it would ship by (y), but that the backers would receive their pledges before retail.

I guess I see the issue, but I honestly don't quite understand why its such a big deal? If they held back the retail release, it would not get the product into the backers hands any sooner. Not saying you are wrong, but I've seen this on other KS and never really got it.

Maybe its just because its not a big deal to me that I'm not as sympathetic to those who see it as a major issue. I pledge to a KS because I think its a cool product that I want to see put into production, or because of the discount price and/or cool freebies included, not because getting it a week before it reaches retail matters to me. I do agree that they could have handled the communications better. That does seem to be a recurring problem with many KS.

Well its because your told something over and over again, you then figure its going to happen like they said. For many KS, if you back it you usually get it before retail. That's part of the appeal and perk.

I would disagree though in you saying if they held it back. That's more bodies getting it sent out, not out demoing and selling in Speil(sp?) like Dave is among a few of his employees right now.

People asked him there, and currently he states they are shipping 75-100 shipments a day. The goal is to be done by the end of October.

I can see how people don't think of this as a big deal, but take a look at it from the backers perspective. Most people who ordered just a starter, or hardly anything got their stuff. People, like myself, among lots others who ordered 500$ worth of stuff or more have yet to see it. That's a good bit of cash tied up with no return for about a year now. The more you invent in something, the more you want to see it pay off when its supposed to. Had I just got a single starter, id proably not care at all. I could go out now and just buy a second one. But I got way more then that.

It is what it is. I just hope they truly learned from this.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

mdauben wrote:
Alpharius wrote:
And (x) here is, again, NOT that it would ship by (y), but that the backers would receive their pledges before retail.

I guess I see the issue, but I honestly don't quite understand why its such a big deal? If they held back the retail release, it would not get the product into the backers hands any sooner. Not saying you are wrong, but I've seen this on other KS and never really got it.

Maybe its just because its not a big deal to me that I'm not as sympathetic to those who see it as a major issue. I pledge to a KS because I think its a cool product that I want to see put into production, or because of the discount price and/or cool freebies included, not because getting it a week before it reaches retail matters to me. I do agree that they could have handled the communications better. That does seem to be a recurring problem with many KS.

From the BoW video it's the Hawk staff who are packing rule books, sprues etc into boxes,

so for the retail release they've had to spend loads of time making up the starters/2player boxes etc, yes they'll have been a lot more productive doing so packing the much more complex KS orders, but if they'd just done the KS stuff it would been in backers hands sooner

although I do appreciate why they've chosen to prioritise the retail release they've already advertised as people (and distributors) are prone to sulk if stuff if delayed (and Hawk might just end up on the hook if places had organised events for the launch and loose out financially if the stuff doesn't show up)

so it sucks to be a KS backer in most cases, but (as a backer of lots of KS) it's something you have to be prepared to deal with along with the possibility of delays

**BobtheInquisitor**

Some free PDFs might be a soothing balm for burned backers. (It doesn't hurt to try, right?)

Anyway, the delay doesn't bother me personally, but it does worry me that DFC might not have the bright future I'd hoped it would. I don't want it to become the next Halo Fleet Battles.*

*Although the resulting drop in HFB expansion prices is a wonderful consolation prize.

**MrDwhitey**

HFB died on arrival here. I have no idea how it's doing elsewhere.

I sincerely hope that's not the fate of this.

**Mymearan**

I can't imagine it would with the success of DZC. Also because I've gone all in myself and talked two others into it as well...

**BobtheInquisitor**

MrDwhitey wrote:
HFB died on arrival here. I have no idea how it's doing elsewhere.

I sincerely hope that's not the fate of this.

I never got in a single game of HFB. I just couldn't get through the rulebook. The ships were very nice, though not as nice as DFC's look to be. The product was a solid one, but it just never connected. The DZC rulebook was much easier to read through, for me, but I never got in a game of that either...

**Killionaire**

HFB died for a number of reasons.
1. Spartan Games - They already made not one, not two, but THREE Naval battle games. Including a Space Battle one. And like 3 editions of each, most with crippling design flaws.
Spartan drops games like a rock, and you're guarenteed to have a dead game within 2-3 years with them. They also don't learn from good game design at all.

2. Halo--- who cares? Yes, it's a popular game franchise. But the draw factor of the IP is counterbalanced by the limits of the IP. It's a game about space marines shooting aliens. Spaceships barely even appear in the games except as levels. Limited IP also means you don't have a lot of variety: You need to stick with IP.

3. Factions. There's two. Sure, more may be planned, but the game shipped with two.

--

DFC's trying to appeal to already established wargamers. Andy Chambers brings a lot of cred, and DZC is generally well regarded even if it's minorish on playerbase. It's also certainly mechanically a better game. 90% of the rules are known currently.

**Asterios**

wish I backed this project instead of the RRT project I did.

**Stevefamine**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
MrDwhitey wrote:
HFB died on arrival here. I have no idea how it's doing elsewhere.

I sincerely hope that's not the fate of this.

The DZC rulebook was much easier to read through, for me, but I never got in a game of that either...

I'm $1k deep into DZC/DFC this year

It has literally revived wargaming for me. DZC had everything I was looking for. I expect DFC to do the same for local groups missing the BFG days.

Besides that - if you want to contact HWG - they've responded within an hour or less if you DM them on instagram (odd, I know). The HWG forum mods are great guys as well if you can get approved - takes about a week.

For amount of botched KS's that we've read up on - you're getting a high quality product at the end of the month. Some shipping delays - eh, I can live with.

To the WS guy above:

Having gotten preorders from the Warstore before models were released - the Warstore is on top of their game in everyway compared to the majority of companies out there selling their OWN product. I can order obscure minis/resin bases/hobby tools and have them in a few days vs ordering from the parent company.

I'm on the Resin Building madness right now http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/701705.page and I still have too much work to finish in DZC before I touch DFC

**MrDwhitey**

I've two big armies (one fully painted scourge and one still waiting paint PHR), so I know they do good work.

I missed the KS, but preordered a lot so I'm looking forward to it soon.

**JOHIRA**

I really don't understand the logic of some people here. The unreliability of many KSs doesn't excuse poor business practices, it makes good practices *more necessary*.

Backing DFC's KS was a risk. Many of us have had money committed to it for almost a year now with nothing to show for it. There has to be *something* to justify that risk. Either we get the product sooner, we get the product cheaper, or we get to be deeply involved in the creation of a product we believe in. Hawk's lack of communication pretty well killed the last of the three, and these unexplained delays killed the first. With the kind of discounts retailers can give, is the middle still going to be true? If HWG ever tries to do another kickstarter, we'll all have to ask ourselves with how badly this one was bungled if it's worth it to back another.

Now, it's good that they finally made an apology. The patient's not bleeding out any more - I'm not getting *increasingly* angry about what they're doing. But an apology alone doesn't solve the problem. That's the question that everyone is asking right now, what is HWG doing to fix this? Their only answer in their sporadic communication bursts essentially boils down to "We're doing more!" But until we see our product, doing "more" isn't enough to solve this problem.

**Brunius**

I did the math, and for me at least, I paid the same as I would've at the local discounter for my pledge...almost exactly. Then I've got bonus sprues (equivalent value almost half of my pledge again), battlecruiser/s (not yet released to retail), plus I supported it (which matters to me, though possibly not to others).

I think the hangup for a lot of people is that they treat KS like a preorder. KS is not a preorder. Part of the risk is delays, paying more, or having vaporware. I was fairly confident it wouldn't be the last, but the other two were entirely possible.

This is not to say that (in hindsight) they couldn't have done several things better. For example, they could've communicated better, and learning things through the BoW videos was extremely annoying to me. Ultimately they're doing the best they can, and hopefully improving, so that next time (if there is a next time) they know what to avoid.

**Nodri**

I get why some people are irritated at the lack of communication and it needs to improve substantially if HWG wants to make the move into something more than a fringe game/gaming company.

That said, they make amazing models and have very balanced rules. The level of thought that goes into development is impressive and they do listen to the community with regards to feedback. Updates to rules for DzC have been posted online for free and terrain sets are available for very reasonable prices. They also make an active effort to support the FLGS, which can easily be overshadowed by kickstarters & online sales. All in all, I see the framework for everything I want in a gaming company, but do acknowledge that they're going through growing pains. The bottom line is I have no doubt that my stuff will be shipped sooner or later and if something goes wrong that they'll take care of it, even if it's not as timely a response as I'd like. It may not be perfect, but I don't think anyone is thinking that they won't get their stuff either. That puts the DFC kickstarter somewhere between "awesome" and "dumpster fire" depending on your point of view. Given their lack of experience and small size, I think that's to be expected.

I've been giving them my money since the pre-orders for DzC after Salute back in 2012 (mega armies of PHR & UCM) and will continue to do so because they make models that are fun to paint and games that are fun to play.

**lord_blackfang**

Kickstarter veterans after a while learn to just pledge and forget about it until it's at your door, and not throw monthly fits over it being late.

**katfude**

There's been some bumps, buy hey, at least it's no Dust Tactics kickstarter!

**Sythica**

I agree. After 100+ Kickstarters, I just pledge and forget. Every so often I have to go back and check to make sure I didn`t miss any pledge managers. If something is late, I really don`t care, because I`m drowning in miniatures and RPG`s already. I`d much prefer quality over schedule.

**nekooni**

I got to play at Spiel today and lets just say i now have another phr Starter Fleet to last me until my pledge arrives. The game is even at the Demo level lots of fun and you could see how the full rules ( and not turning the burn through cruiser for free to get the demo game finished quicker) would work, too

**RiTides**

Ah, that is great to hear! Can't wait

**GenRifDrake**

Yep, now that I have a pretty much near full picture of the rules, this is easily my primary Starship combat game now over FSA, HFB and BFG. I am very interested to see how meta forms for this game and the different tactical tricks and fleet loadouts people will make use of. Is a lot of possibilities..!

**Davor**

GenRifDrake wrote:
Yep, now that I have a pretty much near full picture of the rules, this is easily my primary Starship combat game now over FSA, HFB and BFG.

Can you please explain. Since I was going to do a Resistance army and not having any Resistance in Droplet Commander I lost interest in it. What makes this game so great. I haven't played any space fleet game in ages, and was thinking of trying Star Wars Armada or the new Halo. What makes this game so great? I might see if my FLGS can order this and get into it.

**Compel**

Apparently I'm picking up my dropfleet starter set at my local store tomorrow.. not got my kickstarter yet but still...

**nekooni**

Davor wrote:
GenRifDrake wrote:
Yep, now that I have a pretty much near full picture of the rules, this is easily my primary Starship combat game now over FSA, HFB and BFG.

Can you please explain. Since I was going to do a Resistance army and not having any Resistance in Droplet Commander I lost interest in it. What makes this game so great. I haven't played any space fleet game in ages, and was thinking of trying Star Wars Armada or the new Halo. What makes this game so great? I might see if my FLGS can order this and get into it.

I asked about the resistance and they say that you should just paint up your ucm or phr as resistance. For now there are no plans for a resistance fleet, but they are not saying never

**Souleater**

I am curious as to how many orders they can manage to pack and dispatch in a day.

I have seen figures of seventy five a day all the way up to three hundred.

**Mr Morden**

nekooni wrote:
Davor wrote:
GenRifDrake wrote:
Yep, now that I have a pretty much near full picture of the rules, this is easily my primary Starship combat game now over FSA, HFB and BFG.

Can you please explain. Since I was going to do a Resistance army and not having any Resistance in Droplet Commander I lost interest in it. What makes this game so great. I haven't played any space fleet game in ages, and was thinking of trying Star Wars Armada or the new Halo. What makes this game so great? I might see if my FLGS can order this and get into it.

I asked about the resistance and they say that you should just paint up your ucm or phr as resistance. For now there are no plans for a resistance fleet, but they are not saying never

I would not be surpised to see a unique ship or two

would make sense.