A French Soldier's View of US Soldiers in Afghanistan

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**Supertony51**

Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Supertony51 wrote:

Maybe, but from my experience, AU troops were just as cocksure as we were. It was something I admired them for actually. they didn't try to act like they were more sophisticated then us, they joked and got down just like we did.

I also have VERY limited experience with the Aussies, and they seemed quite a bit like us, but they ate even better at their compound than I did normally... (seriously, we were just stopping for fuel and that sort of thing, but ended up getting dinner with them, it was amazing)

Same experience, they seemed much like us with very...colorful, senses of humor, and i guess a kind of "frontier" spirit, if that makes any sense.

**Albatross**

DarkLink wrote:
Albatross wrote:

On Topic: I'm not in the military, but from what I gather, US and UK troops tend to work generally well together due to the long history of co-operation between our two countries and cultural similarity. Members of the public occasionally have negative opinions about the US military when they hear about rape statistics, civilians being killed, friendly-fire etc, and I think that's probably a normal response to those sort of headlines, free from the context of having worked alongside US servicemen. With that being said, as I recall, my good pal mattyrm has had his live saved on at least one occasion by the USAF and there are a lot of Brits living now, veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan, who probably wouldn't be if it wasn't for the actions of our cousins across the Atlantic, so fair play to them I say.

Fun fact, USMC Officer Candidate School's PT program is run by a British Royal Marine. We have an exchange program set up. When I was at OCS, I never learned his name, he was just 'The Color Sergeant' to us candidates, but he was pretty badass.

Yeah, two of my best pals were Royal Marines. They're fething sickos, that lot. Thank christ they're on our side!

**LordofHats**

WellSpokenMan wrote:
Some authors with military experience that you may have heard of.

J.D. Salinger, United States Army
Isaac Asimov, United States Army
Pierre Boulle, British Special Forces
Arthur C. Clarke, Royal Air Force
Joseph Heller, United States Army Air Corps
Frank Herbert, U.S. Navy
L. Ron Hubbard, U.S. Navy
James Jones, United States Army
Norman Mailer, United States Army
Gore Vidal, United States Army
Kurt Vonnegut, United States Army
Harvey Shapiro, United States Army Air Corps

This is by no means a comprehensive list. Can we stop with the "this is written too well to be somebody in the military" comments.

How could you forget the man who so accurately guessed military secrets that the Navy was convinced he had an inside source? Tom Clancy

**Soo'Vah'Cha**

A very well known and impressive writer with military experience..

John Ronald Reuel Tolkien.

**DarkLink**

Strictly speaking, I think Tom Clancy was disqualified from service due to very poor eyesight, though he was in ROTC or something.

**Asherian Command**

LordofHats wrote:
WellSpokenMan wrote:
Some authors with military experience that you may have heard of.

J.D. Salinger, United States Army
Isaac Asimov, United States Army
Pierre Boulle, British Special Forces
Arthur C. Clarke, Royal Air Force
Joseph Heller, United States Army Air Corps
Frank Herbert, U.S. Navy
L. Ron Hubbard, U.S. Navy
James Jones, United States Army
Norman Mailer, United States Army
Gore Vidal, United States Army
Kurt Vonnegut, United States Army
Harvey Shapiro, United States Army Air Corps

This is by no means a comprehensive list. Can we stop with the "this is written too well to be somebody in the military" comments.

How could you forget the man who so accurately guessed military secrets that the Navy was convinced he had an inside source? Tom Clancy

I find your lack of Edgar Allan Poe perplexing.

**Hordini**

Albatross wrote:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

I've always admired the fighting spirit and firepower of American troops, but I can't help feeling that when dealing with the insurgency in Iraq and Afghanistan, that the go forward mentality might have made things tougher. I'm not saying their idiots or anything but I've always understood counter-insurgency to be more of a 'thinking' way of fighting, rather than the battering ram approach. I could be wrong.

Again, I could be wrong, but I'm sure I read somewhere that the counter-insurgency manual used by the US military is based on one developed by the SS. Which might explain a few things.

I'm not 100% certain, because I'm not very familiar with that specific field manual, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say I'm pretty sure that's false. Reason being, the US Military actually has a lot of COIN and guerrilla warfare related doctrine that has been written over the years, much of which predates the Waffen-SS, particularly the Marine Corps Small Wars manual. Judging by that, as well as the terror tactics used by the SS, I don't think that has much to do with American COIN doctrine.

**Kilkrazy**

It is not surprising that there are a lot of authors who were in the armed forces. Except for the UK and USA in the 19th century up to the first world war, practically every developed nation had conscription. The UK brought in conscription in the first and second world war. The USA had conscription in the ACW and the second world war and continued until the 70s. All that would have swept up a lot of potential authors on top of any who volunteered.

We probably will see a smaller proportion of modern authors being ex-military nowadays, since we haven't fought any major wars for such a long time.

**DarkLink**

Hordini wrote:
Albatross wrote:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

I've always admired the fighting spirit and firepower of American troops, but I can't help feeling that when dealing with the insurgency in Iraq and Afghanistan, that the go forward mentality might have made things tougher. I'm not saying their idiots or anything but I've always understood counter-insurgency to be more of a 'thinking' way of fighting, rather than the battering ram approach. I could be wrong.

Again, I could be wrong, but I'm sure I read somewhere that the counter-insurgency manual used by the US military is based on one developed by the SS. Which might explain a few things.

I'm not 100% certain, because I'm not very familiar with that specific field manual, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say I'm pretty sure that's false. Reason being, the US Military actually has a lot of COIN and guerrilla warfare related doctrine that has been written over the years, much of which predates the Waffen-SS, particularly the Marine Corps Small Wars manual. Judging by that, as well as the terror tactics used by the SS, I don't think that has much to do with American COIN doctrine.

Well, coin itself is pretty new. But, no, not so much on the SS influence. Maybe, maybe CIA tactics, but even the worst of what the CIA has been accused of pales compared to what the Nazis.

**Hordini**

DarkLink wrote:
Hordini wrote:
Albatross wrote:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

I've always admired the fighting spirit and firepower of American troops, but I can't help feeling that when dealing with the insurgency in Iraq and Afghanistan, that the go forward mentality might have made things tougher. I'm not saying their idiots or anything but I've always understood counter-insurgency to be more of a 'thinking' way of fighting, rather than the battering ram approach. I could be wrong.

Again, I could be wrong, but I'm sure I read somewhere that the counter-insurgency manual used by the US military is based on one developed by the SS. Which might explain a few things.

I'm not 100% certain, because I'm not very familiar with that specific field manual, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say I'm pretty sure that's false. Reason being, the US Military actually has a lot of COIN and guerrilla warfare related doctrine that has been written over the years, much of which predates the Waffen-SS, particularly the Marine Corps Small Wars manual. Judging by that, as well as the terror tactics used by the SS, I don't think that has much to do with American COIN doctrine.

Well, coin itself is pretty new. But, no, not so much on the SS influence. Maybe, maybe CIA tactics, but even the worst of what the CIA has been accused of pales compared to what the Nazis.

While the current form of US COIN doctrine is newish to the US, COIN itself isn't really new. They were doing COIN in Rhodesia in the 60s and 70s, and the Marine Corps was doing basically what amounted to COIN during the Banana Wars for a really long time, which is what brought us the Small Wars Manual. To be quite honest, if we had payed more attention to our successes and failures and the successes failures of others in COIN-like operations of the past, instead of trying to reinvent the wheel, we probably would have been better off.

**djones520**

Even in the Philippines in the early 20th century, we were conducting COIN operations. We successfully defeated an insurgency then.

**Hordini**

djones520 wrote:
Even in the Philippines in the early 20th century, we were conducting COIN operations. We successfully defeated an insurgency then.

Yeah, exactly. And that's in addition to the Banana Wars we were involved in from like 1898-1934.

**DarkLink**

Hordini wrote:

While the current form of US COIN doctrine is newish to the US, COIN itself isn't really new. They were doing COIN in Rhodesia in the 60s and 70s, and the Marine Corps was doing basically what amounted to COIN during the Banana Wars for a really long time, which is what brought us the Small Wars Manual. To be quite honest, if we had payed more attention to our successes and failures and the successes failures of others in COIN-like operations of the past, instead of trying to reinvent the wheel, we probably would have been better off.

Oh, I know, I'm just saying that COIN is a term that comes from a manual written during the Iraq war. It's a specific set of tactics, strategies, policies, and procedures written for the current environment. Calling the Banana Wars a COIN operation wouldn't be accurate, even though COIN did draw experience from said conflict. Calling an older counter-insurgency campaign a COIN operation is like referring to Microsoft's video game division as "the Xbox 360". Though it's really just semantics, not a big deal.

Edit: Of course, COIN is just short for COunter INsurgency, so I guess it really doesn't matter...

**Hordini**

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure they did use the term counter insurgency in Rhodesia.

The Marines might not have used the word COIN during the Banana Wars, but it definitely was an example of counter insurgency.

**reds8n**

http://chrishernandezauthor.com/2013/07/09/working-with-the-french-army/

counterpoint.

Many Americans have asked me, “Is it true the French served wine at dinner and had wine in their MREs?” The answer is yes and no. They not only served wine at dinner, they sometimes served it at lunch as well. The firebase I was on, which wasn’t that big, had three bars. The regular French Joes could have all the alcohol they wanted in their tents.

I went on a week-long mission to a combat outpost with a French recon platoon. The outpost was at the furthest edge of coalition control, surrounded by Taliban. One of their company XO’s, a captain, accompanied us. When we occupied the outpost, the first thing the troops did was pop open beers and break out steaks to grill

.. sacreblue !

**LordofHats**

Say what you want about the French War Record, but at least they do war with class

**djones520**

reds8n wrote:
http://chrishernandezauthor.com/2013/07/09/working-with-the-french-army/

counterpoint.

Many Americans have asked me, “Is it true the French served wine at dinner and had wine in their MREs?” The answer is yes and no. They not only served wine at dinner, they sometimes served it at lunch as well. The firebase I was on, which wasn’t that big, had three bars. The regular French Joes could have all the alcohol they wanted in their tents.

I went on a week-long mission to a combat outpost with a French recon platoon. The outpost was at the furthest edge of coalition control, surrounded by Taliban. One of their company XO’s, a captain, accompanied us. When we occupied the outpost, the first thing the troops did was pop open beers and break out steaks to grill

.. sacreblue !

Not just the French. Spanish were like that as well. My first deployment, I was supporting a detachment of the Spanish Air Force, so I got invited to some of their shindigs. Beer for miles... once a week they'd fly a plane in just loaded with food and beer. It was awesome.

**Ensis Ferrae**

djones520 wrote:
reds8n wrote:
http://chrishernandezauthor.com/2013/07/09/working-with-the-french-army/

counterpoint.

Many Americans have asked me, “Is it true the French served wine at dinner and had wine in their MREs?” The answer is yes and no. They not only served wine at dinner, they sometimes served it at lunch as well. The firebase I was on, which wasn’t that big, had three bars. The regular French Joes could have all the alcohol they wanted in their tents.

I went on a week-long mission to a combat outpost with a French recon platoon. The outpost was at the furthest edge of coalition control, surrounded by Taliban. One of their company XO’s, a captain, accompanied us. When we occupied the outpost, the first thing the troops did was pop open beers and break out steaks to grill

.. sacreblue !

Not just the French. Spanish were like that as well. My first deployment, I was supporting a detachment of the Spanish Air Force, so I got invited to some of their shindigs. Beer for miles... once a week they'd fly a plane in just loaded with food and beer. It was awesome.

I don't recall booze... but my second tour in Iraq, we stopped into the Aussie compound for fuel/ammo/water, and got invited to stay for dinner. The biggest T-Bone I've EVER had in my life (maybe it was two... no clue), had to get "seconds" just for the non-meat parts of the meal and THAT was piled onto my plate well beyond its load bearing limit

While whenever we're on the US bases, the only time we ate remotely as well as that was on 4th of July, Thanksgiving and Christmas (and on Sundays my first deployment... 3d ACR put on the best Steak/Lobster night in Iraq)

**djones520**

Yeah, for as much money as our military spends on quality of life, our food certainly seems to be the worst in theater.

I'm so looking forward to Afghanistan now with all the draw down thats taken place... *sarcasm alert*

**Jihadin**

djones520 wrote:
Yeah, for as much money as our military spends on quality of life, our food certainly seems to be the worst in theater.

I'm so looking forward to Afghanistan now with all the draw down thats taken place... *sarcasm alert*

Remember. Friday nights is steak night. Which include either crab legs or lobster tails. We all look forward to Friday nights. We know what's for dinner on Friday nights. Chow hours are known to all. Everyone on the FoB knows the schedule. Everyone off the FoB knows the schedule. Everyone on the FoB knows whats for dinner on Friday nights. Everyone off the FoB knows what's for dinner on Friday nights. That's including the Insurgents

**djones520**

It was sunday on my last rotation. Steak and lobster tails.

Let me tell you... even that can get old after a while.

Best food I've had while deployed, Veterans Day. Outback Steak House and Carrera's flew out enough food to feed about 5,000 people There was only about 1500 on base... man did I get fat that night.

**Jihadin**

And a sprinkle of mortar and/or rocket fire being they know we're lined up to be served.

Your down to three choices in that situation...
-Move to the bunkers
-Get flat on the ground
-Move ahead of the line over those that picked the above two

**djones520**

Jihadin wrote:
And a sprinkle of mortar and/or rocket fire being they know we're lined up to be served.

Your down to three choices in that situation...
-Move to the bunkers
-Get flat on the ground
-Move ahead of the line over those that picked the above two

By month #2 I'll be so fed up with the chow I'll just be living on PB&J's that i've pilfered fromt he dfac, so shouldn't be to much of an issue.

**Jihadin**

djones520 wrote:
Jihadin wrote:
And a sprinkle of mortar and/or rocket fire being they know we're lined up to be served.

Your down to three choices in that situation...
-Move to the bunkers
-Get flat on the ground
-Move ahead of the line over those that picked the above two

By month #2 I'll be so fed up with the chow I'll just be living on PB&J's that i've pilfered fromt he dfac, so shouldn't be to much of an issue.

Pppfffttttt
Weak Airman
Its damn beef jerky and coffee

**Hordini**

LordofHats wrote:
Say what you want about the French War Record, but at least they do war with class

With the exception of WW1 (arguably), WW2 and Indo-China, overall their record is actually pretty good. They certainly gave a good showing in Mali recently.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Was WWI not a 4-year stalemate against Germany?

**LordofHats**

Hordini wrote:
LordofHats wrote:
Say what you want about the French War Record, but at least they do war with class

With the exception of WW1 (arguably), WW2 and Indo-China, overall their record is actually pretty good. They certainly gave a good showing in Mali recently.

I know. I just like mocking them. Good old nation to nation jabbing. All in good sport

I think we're past the days where we have to start a world war over it

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Was WWI not a 4-year stalemate against Germany?

France was barely holding on throughout the war. Even managed to face the risk of mutiny across their entire military on two separate occasions. WWI was a very bad war for everyone. France ran the continual risk of ending up like Russia (the waging of the war toppling the government) throughout.

On the other hand, all that gak you folks were dealing with and you still managed not to lose

**r_squared**

First time I ever had lobster was courtesy of the US military in Afghanistan.
And for the record, the USMC were the most professional soldiers from a foreign nation I have had the pleasure to serve alongside.

**Hordini**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Was WWI not a 4-year stalemate against Germany?

It was more than just France vs. Germany, but note that I also said arguably.

**djones520**

France got steam rolled in WW1, but the Germans, on the cusp of victory took a wrong left turn, and it opened up a gap that let the British and some French elements punch through. The Germans had to fall back, and so the stalemate started.