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I was just think about the equipment of troops. when I thought something that was always bugged me. Things like a backup pistol are almost never mentioned. It makes sense that the armies would give their troops sidearms. Bolt pistols for SM and SoB, las pistols for guard (although not always, think the "give them a gun and send them out" method). pulse pistols for tau, shuriken pistols for eldar, and shard? pistols for DE.

So, after my rambling, does anyone know of any fluff that actually mentions this?

The idea that every trooper has a sidearm comes mainly from video games. Correct me if I'm wrong (I probably am somewhat) but aren't sidearms usually issued only to Officers?

 Arcsquad12 wrote:
The idea that every trooper has a sidearm comes mainly from video games. Correct me if I'm wrong (I probably am somewhat) but aren't sidearms usually issued only to Officers?

That seems very likely in the IG, and maybe even in SM chapters.

 Arcsquad12 wrote:
The idea that every trooper has a sidearm comes mainly from video games. Correct me if I'm wrong (I probably am somewhat) but aren't sidearms usually issued only to Officers?

Depends a bit on the army and how special your unit is. Our regular guys don't get one, for example, but military police do. And some forces seem to allow troopers to bring their own sidearms if they want one badly enough.

And you know how those Finnish guys complain.




That's actually quite interesting. I kind of assumed that they had them. It makes sense that if someone is shooting/charging at you, you mnight not have time to reload. And people charging at you would be much more prevelent in 40k.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I kind of assumed that they had them. It makes sense that if someone is shooting/charging at you, you mnight not have time to reload. And people charging at you would be much more prevelent in 40k.

You're supposed to have lots of squad mates. Everyone shouldn't be empty at the same time so you can reload in peace. A rifle is also way killier than a pistol and ofc you could carry a few extra rifle mags for the weight of an expensive show piece.

Besides, giving sidearms to basic troops is often more trouble than it can ever be worth. Do you have any idea about the amount of windows, radios, doors, walls (or sometimes squad mates) that have been shot by some bored trooper playing with an "empty" pistol?

It also brings up the thing about the weapons being used. Lasguns seem to have something like 60-80 shots each, and aren't that long, so they can be used in closer quarters, espcially if it is in carbine form. Pulse rifles get an average of 50 shots per pack (IIRC), but would be very unwieldy to bring to bear on a close, fast moving target, and the tau, even though they try to avoid close combat, probably prepare somewhat for the inevitable. Space marines I can definitely see having a backup, considering that their guns have a comparably low number of rounds. Shuriken weapons get thousands, if not millions of individual rounds per ammo core, but theses are shot in small bursts, but still probably quite a high number of bursts.


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Spetulhu wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I kind of assumed that they had them. It makes sense that if someone is shooting/charging at you, you mnight not have time to reload. And people charging at you would be much more prevelent in 40k.

You're supposed to have lots of squad mates. Everyone shouldn't be empty at the same time so you can reload in peace. A rifle is also way killier than a pistol and ofc you could carry a few extra rifle mags for the weight of an expensive show piece.

Besides, giving sidearms to basic troops is often more trouble than it can ever be worth. Do you have any idea about the amount of windows, radios, doors, walls (or sometimes squad mates) that have been shot by some bored trooper playing with an "empty" pistol?

Well, they wouldn't have to worry about that with the gaurd, although it might get in somebodies eye .

 Arcsquad12 wrote:
The idea that every trooper has a sidearm comes mainly from video games. Correct me if I'm wrong (I probably am somewhat) but aren't sidearms usually issued only to Officers?

Concerning the guardsmen: I recall The Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer have a line that says pretty much some regiment may reserve sidearms for officers only, while others may issue pistols to most or even every guardsmen serving in them.

Space Marines: it would appear that as of 7e Codex Chapters, Dark Angles, and Space Wolves all issue bolt pistols to their marines (even devastators and long fangs). I don't know about the Blood Angels, but I'd guess they do the same. CCW however, are only issued to squad leaders/pack leaders.

Sisters of Battle Orders also has their battle sisters equipped with bolt pistols. Again, CCWs are reserved for officers, based on wargears available to the sisters in 6e.

Xenos, however, does things their ways. I'm not sure if a Craftworld Eldar guardians have access to shuriken pistols, or if Fire Warriors can use anything but pulse rifles/carbines.

Yeah, sidearms are sort of the bayonet of contemporary time. They may be issued out of nostalgia, protocol, or vague fears of situations that will never actually happen, but they're not serious weapons in warfare anymore.

Not to say that I have anything, personally, against either pistols or bayonets, and of course they have their place in the world of 40k (which has WWI tanks after all), but, well, on the battlefield, they are a bit of a relic, at best.

vanilla Space Marines have had bolt pistols as standard issue to all squads in all editions except 3rd & 4th

In 1st and 2nd edition all Eldar Squads except Striking Scorpions came with a laspistol.

Not sure if they still do it, but if I recall correctly, the US Army gave every soldier a pistol. Back in World War 2, that is.
I recall reading something about the Colt 1911 being very commonplace in their ranks.

No idea if they still do it now. The 1911 is most likely out of commission.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Not sure if they still do it, but if I recall correctly, the US Army gave every soldier a pistol. Back in World War 2, that is.

No, in WW2 the US Army didn't generally issue pistols to anyone who carried a rifle. Many riflemen (particularly airborne IIRC) would acquire pistols, but not through official channels.

Space Marines all have combat blades and bolt pistols in addition to their primary weapon. The logic is obvious, you can expect the Marine to outlive his bolter magazines so he'll need backup weapons.

In contrast, Guardsmen are far less likely to outlive all of their ammo, in part due to lower life expectancy and in part due to the lasgun's lower ammunition consumption. So laspistols would be of dubious use.

 HillyKarma wrote:

 Arcsquad12 wrote:
The idea that every trooper has a sidearm comes mainly from video games. Correct me if I'm wrong (I probably am somewhat) but aren't sidearms usually issued only to Officers?

That seems very likely in the IG, and maybe even in SM chapters.

I know Uriel Ventris and most other Book Characters had a sidearm. And that's because it would be boring to have a book about some low-rank SM. So I guess you are right, since the important people all get sidearms.

I have never seen a Marine mentioned in the fluff who was not issued with a blade, and the Tactical Squad kit even includes some.

 Gashrog wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Not sure if they still do it, but if I recall correctly, the US Army gave every soldier a pistol. Back in World War 2, that is.

No, in WW2 the US Army didn't generally issue pistols to anyone who carried a rifle. Many riflemen (particularly airborne IIRC) would acquire pistols, but not through official channels.

Ah, I misunderstood then. Thanks for the clarification.

In all the fluff I've read, basically no one except leaders carry pistols, and in Honour Imperialis, for example, some of the Cadian officers just had rifles instead of pistols.

Basically, in any case where a pistol would come into play, your rank-and-file Guardsman would be better off just smashing the target in the skull with the butt of his lasgun,

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Not sure if they still do it, but if I recall correctly, the US Army gave every soldier a pistol. Back in World War 2, that is.
I recall reading something about the Colt 1911 being very commonplace in their ranks.

No idea if they still do it now. The 1911 is most likely out of commission.

Actually it's pretty damn popular amongst servicepeople and civilians. Probably the most popular handgun in the USA.

 Melissia wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Not sure if they still do it, but if I recall correctly, the US Army gave every soldier a pistol. Back in World War 2, that is.
I recall reading something about the Colt 1911 being very commonplace in their ranks.

No idea if they still do it now. The 1911 is most likely out of commission.

Actually it's pretty damn popular amongst servicepeople and civilians. Probably the most popular handgun in the USA.

Yup, the M9 replaced the 1911 for standard issue but a lot of serviceman prefer the 1911, and some branches such as the Marine Corps are actually phasing the 1911 back into standard issue.

Really? Is it a traditional/cultural thing, or is the 1911 just that good?

.45 ACP vs 9mm. The former has better stopping power than the later.

 Orblivion wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Not sure if they still do it, but if I recall correctly, the US Army gave every soldier a pistol. Back in World War 2, that is.
I recall reading something about the Colt 1911 being very commonplace in their ranks.

No idea if they still do it now. The 1911 is most likely out of commission.

Actually it's pretty damn popular amongst servicepeople and civilians. Probably the most popular handgun in the USA.

Yup, the M9 replaced the 1911 for standard issue but a lot of serviceman prefer the 1911, and some branches such as the Marine Corps are actually phasing the 1911 back into standard issue.

Probably because the 1911 doesn't fall apart like the M9 can.

Although personally I'd prefer a magnum as a backup weapon, simply because if you need a backup, you'll want something that has almost zero chance of jamming like semiautomatic pistols can.

I'd be surprised if the US army didn't issue sidearms. I always thought it was more in case your primary weapon jammed, less that it was a backup for ammo.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
.45 ACP vs 9mm. The former has better stopping power than the later.

On the other hand a .45 has to be pretty huge to bring as much ammo as a 9mm - I know my hands can't comfortably hold a .45 unless it's a single-stack clip. You also use 9mm ammo in SMGs while no one I know of uses .45 SMGs anymore. It's an extra item that could be used for more useful ammo.

It's perfectly fine as a civilian gun ofc, powerful and reliable. And scary too, you might not even have to pull the trigger. ;-)

.45 ACP is not the same as Dirty Harry's .45, lol.

Considering Dirty Harry used a .44, no that's not the same as a .45. But the H&K UMP and the Kriss Vector as well as a H&K USP pistol are/can be chambered in .45 but the 1911 is simply a rugged and iconic pistol. There are MANY copies of the design out there by many different manufacturers. Very easy to get a hold of and in many price ranges from $400-$2500.

Gaunt's Ghosts, particularly Only in Death, make mention of sidearms as ammo reserves run out. Stub guns, autoguns, antique pistols and laslocks are all mentioned as 'trophies' the Ghosts use in combat. No official issued sidearm to the grunts. They just get lasguns.

Modern military, American Marines atleast, get issued a sidearm. Every single person in combat from what I have been told.

Depends on units M.O.S etc...during my service..officers and some NCOs had sidearms...some M.O.S like 13F and some weapon operators (240B etc) were allowed sidearms..MPs had them..and the unit as a whole even contracted with Kimber for a commemorative weapon that could be supplemented for your issue sidearm...this was on deployment..back in the states..well everything gets locked up .
and yes all the alternate sidearms were in .45 ACP.

But generally the saying is..if you are down to your sidearm...something very bad has happened.

Of course, but it would be even worse without one.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
.45 ACP is not the same as Dirty Harry's .45, lol.

Well obviously. Magnums are loaded with magnum rounds. While the .44 is smaller then the .45, there's a lot more gunpowder in a magnum .44 then .45 ACP.