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Sorry this cant be true All characters are Elite
Where did you get this from?

Those are all Elites?

Yes. We have seen the leaked Codex pages of DJ and Shadowseer and the Solitaire rules were in WD

It is the truth, i have the actual Codex since saturday.

I am already planning my army based on that. I have enough (old and new) models to field a complete masque.

Don't have the codex with my by the way (at work at 200 kilometers from where i and the codex live), so i can try to answer questions, but i really don't know everything yet...

First time ever that i seem the first to have a codex :-)

Warhams-77 wrote:
Sorry this cant be true All characters are Elite
Where did you get this from?

White Dwarf itself states that you can use a Solitaire, Death Jester, Shadowseer or Troupe Master as your Warlord.

The re-roll of any 1 is only if you field an entire army.
Plus you can run and charge starting from turn 2.
Plus you can re-roll warlord trait.

Another formation are troupes in transports that can re-enter their transports after hit-and-run if they are within range.

Another formation of jetbikes and new skimmers can re-roll jink saves.

Another formation exists of death jester, shadowseer and solitaire, but the tekst is unclear if they are seperate models or a unit of 3.
And if you field this unit, you cannot field a masque because the solitair is unique.

They are Elite
http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=12792&d=1423951668
http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=12793&d=1423951669
http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=12490&d=1422385940

You will most probably prefer a Troupe Master as warlord in a masque or, maybe, a Death Jester or Shadowseer.

This is because Troupe masters can roll a d6 where others can roll a d3 on the 3 warlord trait charts you can choose from and the first 3 are the same for all 3 charts, the others on 4,5,6, the best and/or funniest ones, are different for the 3 charts.

ORicK wrote:
I don't know if anyone wrote this already...
The HQ choices of the Harlequins are the Solitaire (unique), the Death Jester and the Shadowseer and you may take 7 HQ choices.
In a masque these are 1 Solitair, Death Jesters and 3 Shadowseers.

This is not correct. Harlequis have 0 HQs. The Masque consists of 7 optional Elites
Orick, thanks, we have all the rules on the previous pages

Hmmm... i might remember it wrong and they might be ELITE indeed... sorry!

But i remember that somehow that does not matter much in regard to what you can field, you can field 7 of them, be it HQ or ELITE.

I think...
I will check it this evening when i get home...

ORicK, all of this has been posted before. Warlord traits, formations, all entries, etc. Here's the last question, which we all seem to know the anwser to:

Outside of the Masque detachment and the formations: is there any way to take the Harlequins as a sort of allied detachment (not formation) other than the Masque formation?

I don't know for sure which are formations or detachments, i did not pay attention to that because i want to build an entire Harlequin army and because i did not know that i had a Codex that was not supposed to be out yet.

I will look that up this evening when i get home.

But there are other smaller choices like a troupe or a few units, i will look up what they are exactly.

And furthermore Eldar and Dark Eldar are battle brothers off course.

No problem It is easy to have them wrong being only the tiny symbols on the unit sheets

I just want to prevent confusion. It is good that you bring us those infos. So far we have only one source, a leaked italian codex. And with translations (from GW themselves) not always being well-done it is actually very nice to get more info from a different source. You have the english book, right?

I like the Hit-and-run back into the starweaver. Cool stuff




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Now the GW blog is showing some fluff pieces from the Codex

I indeed have the English codex.

And I did not look at symbols and if i did, i would not know or recognise them anyway :-)

The current 40k editio is new to mee (way too busy with work since about a year); i only got the new rules a short time ago and know how the rules changed, but have not played any allied forces yet, so symbols do not concern me (yet) hahaha...

But good that you mention them, if they are important, i will actually look at them and remember them now ;-)

Not much of a millenia of mystery if they spell it all out in a timeline, is it?

It happened to me several times as well - they are in the top left (the cross eg is Elite). No worry

Harlequins have this 'speciuality' of not being led by anyone. The codex explains (can be seen in the previews) that they are all equal and fight side by side (I dont remenber the exact wording but that is the idea behind this uncommon concept)

Those Mime rebels

I will build a full Harlequin force too. Hopefully there is a battleforce this or the week after like most army releases had since early 2014. Some even more than one (Nids and IG for example)

OK, i am at home and have the codex here.

The force organisation chart of a Harlequin army is called a Harlequin Masque and it exists of:
Compulsory: 3 troops, 2 fast, 1 heavy; Optional: 7 elite

It also states that you can include any of the formations presented as part of a battle-forged army.

The formations are:
1) a complete masque with the 7 elites being 3 death jesters, 3 shadowseers and 1 solitaire
2) 3 troupes, 2 skyweavers, 3 starweavers, 1 voidweavers
3) 1 troupe, 1 death jester, 1 shadowseer
4) 1 troupe, 1 skyweavers, 1 voidweavers
5) solitaire, death jester, shadowseer
6) 2 skyweavers, 1 voidweavers

So if i understand it right you could also use one of the 6 formations mentioned above in any battle forged army...

You could use any and all of the formations in a Battleforged army, without using the Harlequin Masque Detachment.

that is indeed what i make of it...

Those formations ease my fears greatly. Especially the DJ, SS, and 1 Troupe one... Perfect for an allied detachment.

 docdoom77 wrote:
Those formations ease my fears greatly. Especially the DJ, SS, and 1 Troupe one... Perfect for an allied detachment.

The with it is that the DJ and SS cannot leave the unit, which may limit their effectiveness a bit. Still the cheapest way to get a unit of Harlies in without going Unbound, and if you are allying with DE then the fact they can't fit in their own transport is mitigated a bit- you can just chuck them in someone else's Raider.

Huh.. Interesting. According to that timeline, Vect gets some help from the Harlies to take control of Commorragh. I would also wonder then if he's got a Shadowseer helping him to counter the myriad attempts on his life.

 Paradigm wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:
Those formations ease my fears greatly. Especially the DJ, SS, and 1 Troupe one... Perfect for an allied detachment.

The with it is that the DJ and SS cannot leave the unit, which may limit their effectiveness a bit. Still the cheapest way to get a unit of Harlies in without going Unbound, and if you are allying with DE then the fact they can't fit in their own transport is mitigated a bit- you can just chuck them in someone else's Raider.

Well. That is epically stupid. Sigh.

Actually i am not surre about this...

The formation states that it exists of 1 Death Jester, 1 Shadowseer and 1 Solitaire.
It does not state that they are to be a unit.
I actually find that unlikely because the solitaire is... well... solitaire. And the solitaire has a rule that he can never join a unit.

It does state that the models in this formation cannot join other units nor can they be joined by other characters.

I read this as 3 individual models making life difficult for the enemy. The story accompanying the formation describes 3 individual models as well.

ORicK wrote:
Actually i am not surre about this...

The formation states that it exists of 1 Death Jester, 1 Shadowseer and 1 Solitaire.
It does not state that they are to be a unit.
I actually find that unlikely because the solitaire is... well... solitaire. And the solitaire has a rule that he can never join a unit.

It does state that the models in this formation cannot join other units nor can they be joined by other characters.

I read this as 3 individual models making life difficult for the enemy. The story accompanying the formation describes 3 individual models as well.

Different mini-formation.

One is 3 characters (1 DJ, 1 SS, 1 Solitaire). The other is 2 characters + 1 troupe (1 DJ, 1 SS, 1 Troupe)

O wait, i misread this one, wrong formation.
The DJ and SS cannot leave the troupe they belong too.

For the DJ that is not perfect, but the shrieker cannon is 24", so it's not a long range suport choice. Furthermore the DJ can take haywire shrieker is assault so he can shoot at what you want to charge and help against armour with the haywire.
Only troupe master, DJ and SS can take haywire. 3 of these on initiative 7 is not a bad thing at all...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So if you want complete freedom, you have to play a masque.
And that is not a bad thing, it's the same for other armies.

ORicK wrote:

O wait, i misread this one, wrong formation.
The DJ and SS cannot leave the troupe they belong too.

For the DJ that is not perfect, but the shrieker cannon is 24", so it's not a long range suport choice. Furthermore the DJ can take haywire shrieker is assault so he can shoot at what you want to charge and help against armour with the haywire.
Only troupe master, DJ and SS can take haywire. 3 of these on initiative 7 is not a bad thing at all...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So if you want complete freedom, you have to play a masque.
And that is not a bad thing, it's the same for other armies.

That's not true. Other armies can take a CAD or be used as an Allied Detachment. With no HQs, that option is absent, which makes Harlies dubious choices for allies. I don't want a giant detachment for an ally and 7 man units for an army who kind of NEEDs it's transport, which only holds 6 models, is GW stupidity at it's best.

ORicK wrote:
OK, i am at home and have the codex here.

The force organisation chart of a Harlequin army is called a Harlequin Masque and it exists of:
Compulsory: 3 troops, 2 fast, 1 heavy; Optional: 7 elite

It also states that you can include any of the formations presented as part of a battle-forged army.

The formations are:
1) a complete masque with the 7 elites being 3 death jesters, 3 shadowseers and 1 solitaire
2) 3 troupes, 2 skyweavers, 3 starweavers, 1 voidweavers
3) 1 troupe, 1 death jester, 1 shadowseer
4) 1 troupe, 1 skyweavers, 1 voidweavers
5) solitaire, death jester, shadowseer
6) 2 skyweavers, 1 voidweavers

So if i understand it right you could also use one of the 6 formations mentioned above in any battle forged army...

That's garbage. It's a blatant cash grab: the minimum requirement for the Harlie FOC is grossly inflated, without an HQ you can't run a Combined Arms or Allied detachment, and the formations offer very little flexibility (and are often padded out). If you just wanted to add a Troupe and a Solitaire to your army, you're going to have to play Unbound.

Formations are honestly one of the worst things to come out of GW recently, and for exactly this reason - you are increasingly encouraged to view your army not as a collection of separate units costing $20-60, but as a collection of fixed formations each of whose cost could run into the hundreds of dollars to complete. They honestly want to turn 40k into 28mm Epic.

And since free special rules weren't enough of an incentive before, we now have a mini-dex with almost zero flexibility in what models you can buy and how you can field them, because everything has to be in formations.

It's absolutely disgusting. This should have been an easy home run for GW, especially among veteran players, yet they manage to find a way to redouble my conviction to never buy another model from them again.

 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:

That's garbage. It's a blatant cash grab: the minimum requirement for the Harlie FOC is grossly inflated, without an HQ you can't run a Combined Arms or Allied detachment, and the formations offer very little flexibility (and are often padded out). If you just wanted to add a Troupe and a Solitaire to your army, you're going to have to play Unbound.

Formations are honestly one of the worst things to come out of GW recently, and for exactly this reason - you are increasingly encouraged to view your army not as a collection of separate units costing $20-60, but as a collection of fixed formations each of whose cost could run into the hundreds of dollars to complete. They honestly want to turn 40k into 28mm Epic.

And since free special rules weren't enough of an incentive before, we now have a mini-dex with almost zero flexibility in what models you can buy and how you can field them, because everything has to be in formations.

It's absolutely disgusting. This should have been an easy home run for GW, especially among veteran players, yet they manage to find a way to redouble my conviction to never buy another model from them again.

Not sure what you want.

Unlike 5th Edition ... you don't have to buy a whole army of them.
Unlike 6th Edition ... you can just play a Troupe & Solitaire unbound, if that is what you fancy.

Quality of the formations/detachments aside, you don't need them. They are optional. It's hard to argue for a "cash-grab" when GW explicitly gives you permission to just not use them.

Wonderwolf wrote:

Not sure what you want.

Unlike 5th Edition ... you don't have to buy a whole army of them.
Unlike 6th Edition ... you can just play a Troupe & Solitaire unbound, if that is what you fancy.

Quality of the formations/detachments aside, you don't need them. They are optional. It's hard to argue for a "cash-grab" when GW explicitly gives you permission to just not use them.

I'm sorry, but that's horsepucky.

What do you mean, what do I want? It's incredibly obvious. If I even still played the game anymore, what I would want is for Harlies to have the option to follow the normal force organization charts just like everyone else. So I could bring a single Troop choice and HQ model as allies without my entire army becoming Unbound.

Don't even start with the "permission to play whatever you want." There are distinct advantages to having a Battle Forged army, and in this case the Harlequin codex has been structured to force you to pay money for that privilege. This is clearly, absolutely a cash grab, because there's no other reason to set it up like this.

It's a gimmick designed to (practically) force you to buy more models and play them a very specific way, and it's bullcrap.