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So, as I've recently jumped back into SWTOR, as well as "educating" my kids on the original trilogy and remembering how much I really enjoyed the Star Wars universe as a whole (perhaps its simply a nostalgia factor), and that I'd like to get back into reading the books....


So that leaves me with the question (and it's off topic in the SWTOR thread):

Where do I start? Are their authors who are the "Ben Counter" of Star Wars novels, and produce such junk that it should be avoided as much as possible?

99% of the EU is junk. Unlike the Black Library, there is/was no policing of what got published beyond "give George his moneyz!"

Rogue Squadron is good. The Thrawn Trilogy is also good from what I hear. Everything else is pretty much crap.

Its all been tossed from the canon as well, good bad and ugly. So keep that in mind. None of it has happened in the official timeline.

 Grey Templar wrote:
99% of the EU is junk.

Lol, back when I was actually reading them... the Timothy Zahn books were usually some of the best, along with anthology books like "Tales of the Bounty Hunters" I was hoping for some more of the "quality" stuff.


And if the BL is "policed" how did guys like Ben Counter and James Swallow get published?

You're jumping in at a bit of an odd time.


As of right now, all of the existing EU stuff has been rebranded as 'Star Wars Legends' and is no longer considered in any way canon. So they're essentially now just a collection of 'what if' stories in the same manner as the Star Trek library of dodgy fiction.


Any new material (movies, books, comics, whatever) released from now-ish is supposedly vetted and officially canon. So whatever comes out from now onwards won't necessarily tie in cleanly with anything older that you read.



With that in mind, if you're still interested in reading anyway, anything by Timothy Zahn is worth a read. Michael Stackpole and Aaron Alston are entertaining if a little pulpy. The Han Solo Trilogy, the X-wing (Rogue Squadron/Wraith Squadron) series, the Boba Fett trilogy (Mandalorian Armour/Slave Ship/Hard Merchandise) and the standalone Millennium Falcon are all a good read.

I also thoroughly enjoyed the Yuzhan Vong series, although many didn't think it 'fit' in the Star Wars universe.

Legacy of the Force was a good storyline with some really bad individual books. Fate of the Jedi was a bad storyline that should have been good, with some even worse individual books.

Avoid the Courtship of Princess Leia, Shatterpoint and the Dark Nest trilogy. Although the last one is possibly worth sitting through if you intend to read Legacy and Fate.

I'd highly recommend the X-Wing books by Michael Stackpole and Aaron Allston (covering Rogue Squadron and Wraith Squadron respectively).

The Thrawn books are indeed pretty good, but I haven't read the last two (Specter of the Past and Vision of the Future).

I've read the Courtship of Princess Leia. It was okay, not sure I'd recommend it.

I liked The New Rebellion.

If you haven't read Shadows of the Empire, I would highly recommend that. I'd also recommend Tales of the Bounty Hunters if you want to read some short stories.

I wouldn't say it's 99% junk. There's definitely some good stuff in there. I haven't read much of the New Jedi Order stuff but I've heard some of it is good. Vector Prime is probably a good place to start if you want to get into that (since it's the first in that series).


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I, Jedi is quite good, I'd recommend that one. It's also the only Star Wars story told in first person (or at least it was when it was released).


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 insaniak wrote:
Avoid the Courtship of Princess Leia

What didn't you like about that one? I didn't think it was great (it's probably my least favorite of the ones I've read) but I was able to finish it and thought it was reasonably entertaining. Although admittedly, it's been years since I've read it.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:


And if the BL is "policed" how did guys like Ben Counter and James Swallow get published?

Relatively speaking, it is policed.

And if you think Ben Counter and James Swallow are bad, well. You will loathe some of the EU stuff. They're amazing authors in comparison to most of their authors.

This picture sums up the EU quite nicely. Yes, Han is punching a space otter.

 Hordini wrote:
If you haven't read Shadows of the Empire, I would highly recommend that.

I would recommend tracking down the comics insteads. The novelisation was a painful read, and heavily condensed.

I, Jedi is quite good, I'd recommend that one. It's also the only Star Wars story told in first person (or at least it was when it was released).

How did I forget I, Jedi? Yes, good read, that one.

 insaniak wrote:
Avoid the Courtship of Princess Leia

What didn't you like about that one? I didn't think it was great (it's probably my least favorite of the ones I've read) but I was able to finish it and thought it was reasonably entertaining. Although admittedly, it's been years since I've read it.

The story itself is passable. The writing was appalling.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:


And if the BL is "policed" how did guys like Ben Counter and James Swallow get published?

Relatively speaking, it is policed.

And if you think Ben Counter and James Swallow are bad, well. You will loathe some of the EU stuff. They're amazing authors in comparison to most of their authors.

This picture sums up the EU quite nicely. Yes, Han is punching a space otter.

The EU's not that bad. There is some stuff in the EU that is way better than a lot of the Black Library stuff (not that I'm dissing BL, they do have some good stuff too).


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 insaniak wrote:

 Hordini wrote:
If you haven't read Shadows of the Empire, I would highly recommend that.

I would recommend tracking down the comics insteads. The novelisation was a painful read, and heavily condensed.

If you're into comics and graphic novels, the X-Wing comics are good too. And some of the Dark Forces short stories with Kyle Katarn are also good, especially if you liked the games.

The Thrawn Trilogy and Hand of Thrawn duology by Timothy Zahn are good, and do not rely on anything outside themselves and the original trilogy.

The Enemy Lines duology is fun, but it's smack bang in the middle of the Yuuzhang Vong storyline, so you'll just have to accept the spoilers if you don't read what came before.

Kevin J. Anderson is a terrible writer and Karen Traviss is a terrible person, and both should be avoided.

I've read a lot more good books in the EU than I ever will in the Black Library. Neither have many truly great novels, though. But I did find Matthew Stover through the EU.

That doesn't mean much, I would say the ratio of good/bad books is better in the BL. The EU has thousands and thousands of books and hundreds of authors. Of course they're going to have more good books than the BL, which is a pretty small operation.

I agree with Insaniak on almost all of his points personally. A lot of enjoyment came out of the EU for me, it's a shame everyone else didn't have as much fun but that's books for you, not everyone likes the same stuff.

 Grey Templar wrote:
The EU has thousands and thousands of books and hundreds of authors. ..

Err... No. The EU has nowhere near that many books.

 insaniak wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
The EU has thousands and thousands of books and hundreds of authors. ..

Err... No. The EU has nowhere near that many books.

Yeah. If you're just counting the novels, I don't think there are even 100.

I'm including comics and short stories.

Even with those there still aren't thousands.

 Hordini wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
The EU has thousands and thousands of books and hundreds of authors. ..

Err... No. The EU has nowhere near that many books.

Yeah. If you're just counting the novels, I don't think there are even 100.

Considering that I literally (and literally as in literally, not figuratively) own like a hundred of them from when I was a kid and haven't bought any in five or ten years, I think you might want to reevaluate that statement. Here's the wikipedia list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Wars_books

Edit: I counted over 300, and I didn't go over the whole list.

 DarkLink wrote:

 Hordini wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
The EU has thousands and thousands of books and hundreds of authors. ..

Err... No. The EU has nowhere near that many books.

Yeah. If you're just counting the novels, I don't think there are even 100.

Considering that I literally (and literally as in literally, not figuratively) own like a hundred of them from when I was a kid and haven't bought any in five or ten years, I think you might want to reevaluate that statement. Here's the wikipedia list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Wars_books

Ah, gak. I forgot about all the Old Republic stuff (I was thinking mostly the more immediate Post-RotJ books and the New Jedi Order). You're right, there probably are more than 100. There still aren't thousands though.

EU Material is indeed very hit and miss (not to mention the cause of a lot of fan civil wars XD).

Things that ARE good;

Thrawn Trilogy
Rogue Squadron
And while a lot of people hate it, I thought the Yuuzhan Vong era of Star Wars turned out a lot better than much of the stuff before and after it, though the constant attempts to turn Palpatine into a well meaning extremist who was secretly the hero all along got disturbing.

Also; Star Wars Legacy (the comic book series that is) <- FANTASTIC It's a damn shame the second arc will never be finished since Dark Horse lost the license. The Imperial Knights and the Fel Empire were the best ideas to come out of the EU in ages.

EDIT: The original Clone Wars comic books by Dark Horse were also imo very good.

Things to AVOID AT ALL COSTS;

The Dark Nest Trilogy. Oh god what were they thinking.
The numerous story lines about Palpatine's clones. God damn those went on for too long and got progressively dumber.

I'd say Truce at Bakura and Courtship of Princess Leia weren't bad and have some pretty good moments in them.

Like everyone is saying Stackpole, Alston and Zahn are the best ones of the group. They really are great fun

Also throwing my lot in with the Thrawn Trilogy, Rogue Squadron, and Shadows of the Empire.

I also agree that most of the EU is pretty bad.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yes, Han is punching a space otter.

I liked the space otters...


Also, I'm not the biggest fan of the Aaron Allston X-wing novels. They were fine when they were younger, but they're much too campy for me these days. Not near the quality of the Stackpole stuff.

 Grey Templar wrote:
And if you think Ben Counter and James Swallow are bad, well. You will loathe some of the EU stuff.

Heh. I hold the Jedi Prince series by Paul and Hollace Davis as the paradigm by which all bad franchise fiction is to be judged. No Black Library novel (not even Battle for the Abyss) comes close to it in terms of sheer suckiness.

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
And if you think Ben Counter and James Swallow are bad, well. You will loathe some of the EU stuff.

Heh. I hold the Jedi Prince series by Paul and Hollace Davis as the paradigm by which all bad franchise fiction is to be judged. No Black Library novel (not even Battle for the Abyss) comes close to it in terms of sheer suckiness.

Indeed. I actually didn't find Battle for the Abyss all that bad, but then I've read multiple "urban fiction" and self-published books because we used to be able to take home review/early issue copies(the ones with the plain yellow/tan covers before the covers are finalized) of books from work and a free book's a free book. My standard for bad books has been pretty narrowed after I worked at a book store and have actually seen the worst of the worst.

Hell, there's a whole world of books out there that makes Ayn Rand look like a good author.

 LordofHats wrote:
Thrawn Trilogy

Yes

 LordofHats wrote:
Rogue Squadron

Yes

 LordofHats wrote:
I thought the Yuuzhan Vong era of Star Wars turned out a lot better than much of the stuff before and after it

You can call me crazy XD it's okay. I don't know. As time has gone on I look back at that stint of the EU and think "you know, it wasn't that bad..." Maybe just because I hated Legacy of the Force so much. Whole reason I stopped reading the EU was how terrible LotF was. Never before had the behind the scenes bickering of the EU authors been so blatantly apparent and destructive as that series. EDIT: And of course, the previously mentioned utter pile of bile that was Dark Nest. EDIT: Not to mention being a prime case for Star Wars' increasing struggle with twisted morality.

Vector Prime, never forget, never forgive. :-P

 Compel wrote:
Vector Prime, never forget, never forgive. :-P

I was all out reading that book when someone asked me if I've gotten to the part where a character and moon were involved in a situation. I was carrying live ammo to and it happen in Iraq..

I, Jedi has always bothered me. It is an oft recommended book, that to me is basically Star Wars for people that hate Star Wars, featuring the Mary Suest of what ever the term for a Mary Sue group is.

"Ooh, look at us, we're the Jensaarai. We're like Jedi, but better. And we're like Sith, but better. We're Jedi + Sith + 1 - evil! We can use Dark Side powers, but they're not Dark Side because reasons. We make lightsabers as younglings and also make force armor that's immune to lightsabers because we are better than jedi in every way! Look at us fart rainbows and crap gold. meh meh meh"

I know it's not a popular opinion, but there you have it.

Also avoid anything Karen Travis. She wrote a few good ones, but the bad ones pretty much obliterate anything good she may have written. See: walking on Force Bubbles to avoid land mines, because apparently the Force sounds too much like Force Field.

 streamdragon wrote:
Also avoid anything Karen Travis. She wrote a few good ones, but the bad ones pretty much obliterate anything good she may have written. See: walking on Force Bubbles to avoid land mines, because apparently the Force sounds too much like Force Field.

That's not why Traviss is terrible. Traviss is terrible because when she is guilty of bad writing it is to serve a purpose, and that purpose is genocide advocacy. I forgive Zahn for minimalism because having 200 middling capital ships be enough to change the course of the galaxy is merely a symptom of galactic-scale conflicts being difficult to convey. When Traviss claims the Separatists couldn't possibly have that many droids (spoiler warning: they could, she's just mathematically illiterate) it's an excuse to declare the Jedi are up to no good.