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RedNoak wrote:

 Smitty0305 wrote:
You complain about "broken" units only because you refuse to open your codex to find solutions to beat the "broken" units. Stop playing the way you want to play, and start playing the way that you need to to kill the units.

Eldar WraithKnights can be killed by

-Psychic Shriek (3d6 Leadership test)
-Mindshackle Scarabs (3d6 Leadership test)
-Grav Guns
-Lascannons
-Meltas
-Any rending close combat squad
-Any Deathstar with Power Fists
-Blob Squad to tie it up the whole game
-Many other ways that im not typing due to energy expended.

so when asked how to kill wraithknights, you come up with EIGHT solutions. you got the entierty of what is called 40k, and came up with EIGHTthings. i believe there are more than 8 ARMIES in 40k.

you still see no problem?!

Wraithknights are JUMP MC's
have S10 weaponary TWO TIMES
they wreck havoc in close combat. LOTS of attacks ALL S10 AP2
they have 6 wounds on a 3+ save AND
god but not least... they have TOUGHNESS EIGHT.

they are the toughest, strongest, ranged and closequarter MC's in the core rulebook. can be buffed by eldar trickery AND cost only laughable 240 points.

thats 40 points per wound...

yeah sounds pretty reasonable to me -.-



but yes, you are right ill just find me a 600 point deathstar and kill it with no probs... see no problem... it can be killed we just arent trying hard enough =)

They problem with these solutions is you have to build to fight said unit, in general I take what i need to a casual game night, I just wont have my entire collection of dudes lying around to list build against a unit. Another problem is if you build for one problem then you are weak against many others, the complaint isn't that there are not solutions, just the fact that an all comers, "well-rounded" list with a little bit of everything has a hard time. Sure a specific list can counter anything, but in context not everyone will have the resources to build said list, or just build a list that they know can fight a wider variety of things.

I can build to fight an imperial knight, but the army I build will be drastically different than something i would build and bring to a casual night or against one of my buddies, expecting everything. Besides, list tailoring is a despicable act, and is borderline cheating.

TL,DR: The problem is not that units are overpowered, it is that they are overpowered in context, not when the best prepared enemy is fighting them. Not every army has the solutions as well.

 Filch wrote:
Nope, gw play tested these knights and tides as, "its so good people will pay top dollars to spam these! We will make millions $!"

Exactly right. They don't care about game balance, never have. People need to stop pretending that someday they're going to " see the light".

 AnomanderRake wrote:

RedNoak wrote:
i can generally kiss balance goodbye, if i use most of the FW or IA stuff


...not that core 40k is balanced anyway, but FW brings it up to a new level =)

?

I've never seen FW trip half so hard as with Invisibility, Imperial Knights, Wave Serpents, or Riptides. (All right, once. The Achilles really shouldn't exist.)

You missed 2nd ed, clearly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I still think Wraithknights are more reasonable than WS. That's really bad.

Martel732 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

RedNoak wrote:
i can generally kiss balance goodbye, if i use most of the FW or IA stuff


...not that core 40k is balanced anyway, but FW brings it up to a new level =)

?

I've never seen FW trip half so hard as with Invisibility, Imperial Knights, Wave Serpents, or Riptides. (All right, once. The Achilles really shouldn't exist.)

You missed 2nd ed, clearly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I still think Wraithknights are more reasonable than WS. That's really bad.

Given that I started playing late 3rd edition I do think I may have missed 2nd edition.

2nd ed was completely crazy and unbalanced. No edition has been as unbalanced since 2nd.

I do not think putting restrictions on units will work, you need to out right eliminate certain upgrades that make that unit broken or limit certain upgrades like 1 per army relic/artifact restrictions.

Just using restrictions on units will not be enough on its own,

Using restrictions on units along with other methods to improve balance are required to improve 40k game play enough to be noticed.