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Made in us
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity





East Coast, USA

 Ghaz wrote:
And perhaps you can provide a rules quote that allows you to make two units out of one just because one of them is an IC.


I'm not sure I understand your question.

When the Big Mek is with the two Meks, they form a single Unit. If the Big Mek is still in the Unit, of course there aren't two Units. The Big Mek is a part of the Unit for all rules purposes.

When the Big Mek leaves the two Meks, there are now two Units on the table.

When ANY IC leaves the Unit he is a part of, there are now two Units on the table.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ghaz wrote:
And perhaps you can provide a rules quote that allows you to make two units out of one just because one of them is an IC. The rules don't support it. When an IC leaves a unit, they go back to their two original units. They don't create a new unit that never existed.


So, am I to understand that you believe the following scenario to be true?

During deployment, I choose to deploy a Space Marine Captain with a Space Marine Tactical Squad. During the course of the game, I can never have the Captain leave the Tac Squad, because the Captain never existed as his own unit?

This is basically an identical situation. The game starts with an IC in a unit and the IC was never by himself.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/30 22:01:53


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Made in us
The Hive Mind





 Kriswall wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
So you're not going to actually try and address my argument, but talk about things that aren't relevant to my position?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kriswall wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
Of which, he's a "founding member". Agreed? In other words, it's a Big Mek unit because of him.


Irrelevant? If you believe otherwise, please provide a rules quote. The rules simply specify how to leave a unit and that you can't leave a unit if one of 4 restrictions are in place. There is no other restriction on the type of unit you can leave.

It's not irrelevant. I'm attempting (apparently futilely) to step you through the thought process since you haven't been able to grasp it so far.


I don't need you to step me through your thought process. I need you to provide a rules quote saying that an IC can't leave a unit where he was the initial member. I can't find that in the rules and you haven't provided a rules quote.

Except I have, and you're failing to understand why it applies. Which is why I'm stepping you through the thought process. I'm not attempting to be rude, I'm just debating.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kriswall wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
And perhaps you can provide a rules quote that allows you to make two units out of one just because one of them is an IC.


I'm not sure I understand your question.

When the Big Mek is with the two Meks, they form a single Unit.

Incorrect thought process - the Meks are with the Big Mek, not the other way around.
Yes, it's relevant.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/30 22:04:48


My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

 Kriswall wrote:
So, am I to understand that you believe the following scenario to be true?

During deployment, I choose to deploy a Space Marine Captain with a Space Marine Tactical Squad. During the course of the game, I can never have the Captain leave the Tac Squad, because the Captain never existed as his own unit?

This is basically an identical situation. The game starts with an IC in a unit and the IC was never by himself.


They are not identical situations. One is a unit with an attached IC. The other is an IC with attached models. Even if there were some way for the Big Mek to move out of coherency of the Meks, the Meks (as part of the Big Mek unit) must maintain coherency with the Big Mek.

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in us
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity





East Coast, USA

 Happyjew wrote:
 Kriswall wrote:
So, am I to understand that you believe the following scenario to be true?

During deployment, I choose to deploy a Space Marine Captain with a Space Marine Tactical Squad. During the course of the game, I can never have the Captain leave the Tac Squad, because the Captain never existed as his own unit?

This is basically an identical situation. The game starts with an IC in a unit and the IC was never by himself.


They are not identical situations. One is a unit with an attached IC. The other is an IC with attached models. Even if there were some way for the Big Mek to move out of coherency of the Meks, the Meks (as part of the Big Mek unit) must maintain coherency with the Big Mek.


The rules that grant permission for an IC to leave a unit don't differentiate between whether the IC joined the unit, or other models joined the IC. There is nothing about how the unit was formed. If you believe there is a restriction removing the permission for an IC to leave a Unit that is based on how the Unit came to be, please quote it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
rigeld2 wrote:
 Kriswall wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
So you're not going to actually try and address my argument, but talk about things that aren't relevant to my position?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kriswall wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
Of which, he's a "founding member". Agreed? In other words, it's a Big Mek unit because of him.


Irrelevant? If you believe otherwise, please provide a rules quote. The rules simply specify how to leave a unit and that you can't leave a unit if one of 4 restrictions are in place. There is no other restriction on the type of unit you can leave.

It's not irrelevant. I'm attempting (apparently futilely) to step you through the thought process since you haven't been able to grasp it so far.


I don't need you to step me through your thought process. I need you to provide a rules quote saying that an IC can't leave a unit where he was the initial member. I can't find that in the rules and you haven't provided a rules quote.

Except I have, and you're failing to understand why it applies. Which is why I'm stepping you through the thought process. I'm not attempting to be rude, I'm just debating.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kriswall wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
And perhaps you can provide a rules quote that allows you to make two units out of one just because one of them is an IC.


I'm not sure I understand your question.

When the Big Mek is with the two Meks, they form a single Unit.

Incorrect thought process - the Meks are with the Big Mek, not the other way around.
Yes, it's relevant.


Sounds good. I'm also debating. Feel free to step me through your thought process. It would be super helpful to quote rules as you do so.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/12/30 22:30:34


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Made in us
The Hive Mind





 Kriswall wrote:
Sounds good. I'm also debating. Feel free to step me through your thought process. It would be super helpful to quote rules as you do so.

So... answer the question instead of calling it irrelevant?

My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in us
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity





East Coast, USA

rigeld2 wrote:
 Kriswall wrote:
Sounds good. I'm also debating. Feel free to step me through your thought process. It would be super helpful to quote rules as you do so.

So... answer the question instead of calling it irrelevant?


Which question?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's my issue. There are precisely four restriction that would prevent an IC from leaving a unit. How the unit came to be initially is not one of them. I understand your line of thought. I understand that you don't want the IC to be able to leave a unit where he was the founding member, but ultimately this restriction is not in the rules. I haven't seen a single quote giving a fifth restriction that would cover situations where the IC was the founding member.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/30 23:03:16


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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





stating that a big mek +meks is a big mek unit is plainly wrong by the RAW.

there is no RAW anywhere that shows an IC joined to a unit, is the IC as the unit and the unit is part of the IC for all rules purposes. Furthermore there is no RAW anywhere that an unit joins an IC and becomes the ICs unit. Such rules do not exist in the main rulebook, nor do they exist in codex orks, nor is it stated as such in the entry for meks.

as such a big mek +meks is an unit of meks with a Big mek attached.

that the meks are assigned to the big mek does not mean the meks are joined to the IC, it means they are a unit. The only way for an IC to be part of a unit is to be joined to the unit and count as the unit for all intents and purposes, not for the unit to be joined to the IC and count as the IC for all intents and purposes.

There are just no rules at all for an unit being able to join an IC, and further the rules for meks never state they join the unit, they state assigned to the unit. We are not told that this invalidates the normal rules for ICs. As such the IC is attached to the unit of meks, even if the meks are assigned to the IC, because assigned has no real rules meaning other than they start the game as a unit.

There is the further caveat that the meks cannot leave the unit, but as the unit has to be "meks" and not big meks, and the big mek is not a mek, by all the RAW the IC big mek can leave the unit of meks, and the meks remain in their unit so all the RAW are satisfied.

cite some if there are.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/12/30 23:28:40


 
   
Made in us
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity





East Coast, USA

Ultimately it doesn't matter what kind of unit it is because there is no restriction in the rulebook preventing an IC from leaving a unit so long as the unit or IC are not in reserves, in combat, falling back or gone to ground.

Ergo, the Big Mek can leave. Until someone cites a rule that adds additional restrictions, RaW dictates the Big Mek, as an IC, can leave the unit.

Whether the resulting unit of two Meks is a Meks unit or a Big Mek unit without a Big Mek is a more or less academic debate that has little practical impact on the game.

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Longtime Dakkanaut





I agree, there is no actual rule preventing the IC from moving out of coherency of the unit, and being a separate unit from the prior unit.

There are no rules preventing the IC from moving out of coherency of the meks which ICs are allowed to do by virtue of being an IC, which results in the IC leaving the unit.

saying such is similar to saying two chapter masters joined together means neither can leave the unit because the unit is "chapter master".

Obviously the model with the IC rule is able to move out of coherency of the other models that formed the unit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/30 23:43:10


 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

blaktoof wrote:
stating that a big mek +meks is a big mek unit is plainly wrong by the RAW.

there is no RAW anywhere that shows an IC joined to a unit, is the IC as the unit and the unit is part of the IC for all rules purposes. Furthermore there is no RAW anywhere that an unit joins an IC and becomes the ICs unit. Such rules do not exist in the main rulebook, nor do they exist in codex orks, nor is it stated as such in the entry for meks.

as such a big mek +meks is an unit of meks with a Big mek attached.


So if a Mek is attached to a unit of Boyz, what is the unit?

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





So you think the rules for IC are the same as the rules for a normal unit without the IC rule?

mek assigned to boyz = boyz. [ logic= boyz (not IC) with attached meks (not IC) equals unit of boyz ]

mek attached to IC = meks [ logic = big mek (IC) with attached meks(not IC) = unit IC is attached to because of how IC rules work]

because the rules for IC say an IC joined to something counts as a member of -that- unit for all rules purposes. There are no rules saying an IC joined to something counts the IC as the unit.

regardless, there is no restriction in the mek rules for ICs being able to leave the unit, nor is there anything saying they may not move out of coherency of the meks-which ICs are allowed to do.

   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

blaktoof wrote:
So you think the rules for IC are the same as the rules for a normal unit without the IC rule?


I think the rules for IC have no bearing on how a non-IC is attached to a unit. Such as the case for Meks, Warlocks, and Crypteks.

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





its unfortunate that the rules say otherwise and you have no actual rules support for your stance.

the units you quoted do not have permission to join an IC, so obviously they cannot leave the unit as RC/Warlocks do not have permission to do so, and the unit cannot leave them as units are not ICs generally.

The unit in question for this topic Meks, can be joined with ICs that are infantry, and ICs do have permission to leave the unit, and count as the unit they are joined with - not the other way around which has been pushed by certain people in this discussion.

as such this is not the same in that regard.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/31 00:44:30


 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

blaktoof wrote:
The unit in question for this topic Meks, can be joined with ICs that are infantry, and ICs do have permission to leave the unit, and count as the unit they are joined with - not the other way around which has been pushed by certain people in this discussion.

Perhaps you can quote where in the 'Mekaniaks' rule that says that the Independent Character joins the Meks, when the rule itself clearly says that the Meks are "... assigned to any unit with the Infantry or Artillery type in their Detachment".

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





perhaps you can quote where assigned means the meks are joined to something and not the models are in a unit?

or where any non-IC joined to an IC counts as the ICs unit and not the normal IC rules where the IC counts as a member of the unit it is joined to.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/12/31 00:53:42


 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

blaktoof,

1. A Mek is assigned to a unit of Boyz. All of the Boyz are killed leaving the Mek. Is the Mek still part of the Boyz unit or does he form a new unit of just "Mek"?

2. Same scenario except replace unit of Boyz with Big Mek.

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





your scenario 1 and 2 are vastly different

one the whole unit is a boyz unit.

two the whole unit is a mek unit, not the big mek unit.

an IC joined with another unit is not the unit of the IC.

Is a chapter master joined with a tac squad a chapter master squad?

that the meks are assigned to the big mek does not mean the unit is the big meks unit, and you have no rules support for that.

further there is no support for an IC joining a unit and the unit being the IC unit and not the unit the IC is joined to.

that an IC joined to models in a unit, the unit identity being "the IC" and not "The unit IC is attached to" is a purely made up stance with no actual rules support anywhere in any book.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/31 01:30:39


 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

blaktoof wrote:
that the meks are assigned to the big mek does not mean the unit is the big meks unit, and you have no rules support for that.

And do you have any support that its not? Do you have any support that assigning the Meks to the Big Mek somehow changes his unit so that it is no longer a 'Big Mek Unit'? Sorry, but you're the one who has no rules support for your claims. The Meks were assigned to the 'Big Mek Unit'.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

blaktoof, is your argument is that when a Mek is assigned to a unit he is a model from that unit, he does not join the unit?

If so, then when a Mek is assigned to a Big Mek unit he is a model in the Big Mek unit. As such, he must maintain coherency with the Big Mek, even if the Big Mek could leave the Big Mek unit.

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





an IC cannot be a unit when other models are in the unit.

there is no rules support for it.

if an IC is attached to a unit, the IC counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes.

if an IC is joined with another unit the unit is not the IC unit, but the unit is joined to.

even if you were correct, which you are not as indicated by your continued inability to actually post a single piece of rules that support that assigned = the unit has to be what they are attached to always, which would invaldiate the rulebook rules for ICs being in a unit....

you have still completely failed to show how the Big mek does not have permission to move out of coherency as the rules for ICs state.

The big mek can move out of coherency of the unit, because the IC rules state so, no rule states otherwise, and the model can move away from the other models.

An Independent Character can leave a unit during the Movement phase by moving out of unit coherency with it. He cannot join or leave during any other phase – once shots are fired or charges are declared, it is too late to join in or duck out!

the big mek is still itself, so is always in coherency with itself. If a lone big mek moves at all, is it still in coherency with itself? Its not even required to be as it is a lone model...but regardless yes, it is still within 2" of itself. Ie whereve i go here I am.

so yes, that's three things you are wrong on.
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

blaktoof wrote:
an IC cannot be a unit when other models are in the unit.

Care to provide a rule to back this up.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

blaktoof wrote:
an IC cannot be a unit when other models are in the unit.


So a Commander with 2 Gun Drones is what then?

What about a Wolf Lord with 2 Fenrisian Wolves?

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Ghaz wrote:
blaktoof wrote:
that the meks are assigned to the big mek does not mean the unit is the big meks unit, and you have no rules support for that.

And do you have any support that its not? Do you have any support that assigning the Meks to the Big Mek somehow changes his unit so that it is no longer a 'Big Mek Unit'? Sorry, but you're the one who has no rules support for your claims. The Meks were assigned to the 'Big Mek Unit'.


simple, the rules are permissive.

there are no rules telling us that meks joined to an IC count as the ICs unit.

There are no rules telling us that assigned means anything other than being in a unit with.

there are rules telling us that an IC joined to a non IC unit count as they the unit they are joined to for all rules purposes.

the meks are always part of the unit they join for all rules purposes, the IC is always part of the unit they join for all rules purposes. If the unit were to have an identity it would be both or neither, neither of which are actually against the rules. Which oddly is not addressed in the rules. If both were to be applied, I would imagine they would be applied at the same time, as such the player whos turn it is gets to pick the order and the ork player could always pick the big meks rule to resolve first, and the unit is now the mek unit.

The meks may not leave the unit, as per their rules. There are no rules preventing the big mek from leaving the unit.

it would be nice if someone would post some actual rules support for the stance that the unit is the big mek unit, and assigned means something in particular other than they are in a unit together.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Happyjew wrote:
blaktoof wrote:
an IC cannot be a unit when other models are in the unit.


So a Commander with 2 Gun Drones is what then?

What about a Wolf Lord with 2 Fenrisian Wolves?


dont have the tau codex so cannot comment on that.

in the case of the wolf lord theres about 5 paragraphs of rules for that.

in summation the wolves are wargear that joins/leaves units with the IC as called out by their rules specifically. Such is not indicated in the ork codex.
They are treated as a single unit.
which you should note has no identity of "wolf lord unit", its just a unit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/31 01:57:35


 
   
Made in us
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity





East Coast, USA

I just can't see how the Mekaniaks rule has ANY impact on whether or not an IC can leave a unit.

Codex: Orks, Mek Entry - "Mekaniaks: For each HQ choice in a Detachment (not including other Meks) you may include a single Mek chosen from this datasheet. These selections do not use up Force Organisation slots. Before the battle, immediately after determining Warlord Traits, any Mek that is not already part of another unit must, if possible, be assigned to any unit with the Infantry or Artillery type in their Detachment; a Mek cannot leave his unit and is treated as part of it for the entire battle for all rules purposes."

The Mekaniaks rule tells us that we can assign the Mek to any unit with the Infantry or Artillery type. The Mek cannot leave the unit and is treated as part of it for the entire battle for all rules purposes.

No argument. The Mekaniaks rule tells us how to assign a Mek to a Big Mek. If we take two Meks, we can assign two Meks to the Big Mek Unit.

At this point, the game begins and we have a single unit composed of two Meks and one Big Mek. The Meks don't have the IC rule. The bit in the Mekaniaks rule saying that they can't leave the Unit is redundant since models without the IC rule can't leave Units. The Big Mek DOES have the IC rule and CAN still leave Units.

Remember that Leaving a Unit is an active thing. If the Big Mek moves out of coherency, he has left the Unit. The Meks he's left haven't. They are still part of "the Unit". The Big Mek simply leaves and counts as his own Unit at the end of the Movement Phase.

To sum up...

Mekaniaks allows Meks to be assigned to a Big Mek.
IC rules in the BRB allow the Big Mek to leave the Meks.

Noone is saying that the Meks can leave the Big Mek. The obviously can't. They aren't ICs and the Mekaniaks rule specifically forbids it. The can, however, be left. The Big Mek can leave. Nothing in the Mekaniaks rule prevents an IC from leaving the Meks.

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Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

blaktoof, I'm still struggling to understand your argument.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

If a Mek is assigned to unit, for all intents and purposes he is a just another model in that unit.

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in us
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity





East Coast, USA

 Happyjew wrote:
blaktoof, is your argument is that when a Mek is assigned to a unit he is a model from that unit, he does not join the unit?

If so, then when a Mek is assigned to a Big Mek unit he is a model in the Big Mek unit. As such, he must maintain coherency with the Big Mek, even if the Big Mek could leave the Big Mek unit.


Why can't the Big Mek leave the unit? Can you provide an actual rules quote that overrides the permission granted in the BRB under the IC rules? The Mekaniak rule prevents the Meks from leaving, but doesn't prevent an IC in the Unit from leaving, so the Mekaniaks rule does not add a restriction to the IC permission to leave.

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Buffalo, NY

 Kriswall wrote:
 Happyjew wrote:
blaktoof, is your argument is that when a Mek is assigned to a unit he is a model from that unit, he does not join the unit?

If so, then when a Mek is assigned to a Big Mek unit he is a model in the Big Mek unit. As such, he must maintain coherency with the Big Mek, even if the Big Mek could leave the Big Mek unit.


Why can't the Big Mek leave the unit? Can you provide an actual rules quote that overrides the permission granted in the BRB under the IC rules? The Mekaniak rule prevents the Meks from leaving, but doesn't prevent an IC in the Unit from leaving, so the Mekaniaks rule does not add a restriction to the IC permission to leave.


Kriswall, my statement is under the assumption that the Big Mek can somehow leave the unit.

You have a unit called "Big Mek" it is normally composed of "1 Big Mek". If the Mek is assigned to the Big Mek unit, you have a Big Mek unit composed of "! Big Mek and 1 Mek".

The Big Mek leaves the unit called "Big Mek" he is no longer part of the unit he composes as he has left it, or since the Mek is part of his unit (after all the Mek cannot leave the Big Mek unit), then the Mek must maintain coherency with the Big Mek.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/12/31 02:07:16


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East Coast, USA

 Happyjew wrote:
 Kriswall wrote:
 Happyjew wrote:
blaktoof, is your argument is that when a Mek is assigned to a unit he is a model from that unit, he does not join the unit?

If so, then when a Mek is assigned to a Big Mek unit he is a model in the Big Mek unit. As such, he must maintain coherency with the Big Mek, even if the Big Mek could leave the Big Mek unit.


Why can't the Big Mek leave the unit? Can you provide an actual rules quote that overrides the permission granted in the BRB under the IC rules? The Mekaniak rule prevents the Meks from leaving, but doesn't prevent an IC in the Unit from leaving, so the Mekaniaks rule does not add a restriction to the IC permission to leave.


Kriswall, my statement is under the assumption that the Big Mek can somehow leave the unit.

You have a unit called "Big Mek" it is normally composed of "1 Big Mek". If the Mek is assigned to the Big Mek unit, you have a Big Mek unit composed of "! Big Mek and 1 Mek".

The Big Mek leaves the unit called "Big Mek" he is no longer part of the unit he composes as he has left it, or since the Mek is part of his unit (after all the Mek cannot leave the Big Mek unit), then the Mek must maintain coherency with the Big Mek.


Why must the Mek maintain coherency with the Big Mek? The Mek must maintain coherency with all models in the unit that have not chosen to leave using the IC rules in the BRB.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/31 02:09:14


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Florence, KY

 Kriswall wrote:
Why must the Mek maintain coherency with the Big Mek?

Because that is the unit that the Meks were assigned to.

 Kriswall wrote:
The Mek must maintain coherency with all models in the unit that have not chosen to leave using the IC rules in the BRB.

The model that tried to leave is the unit that the Mek was assigned to. A Big Mek can't leave himself and create another Big Mek unit.

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East Coast, USA

 Ghaz wrote:
 Kriswall wrote:
Why must the Mek maintain coherency with the Big Mek?

Because that is the unit that the Meks were assigned to.


Can you provide actual rules stating that the Mek being assigned to a Big Mek removes or overrides the IC rules as relates to the IC being able to leave a unit?

 Kriswall wrote:
The Mek must maintain coherency with all models in the unit that have not chosen to leave using the IC rules in the BRB.

The model that tried to leave is the unit that the Mek was assigned to. A Big Mek can't leave himself and create another Big Mek unit.


Why do you keep saying the Big Mek can't leave himself? ICs never leave themselves. ICs never leave models. They leave Units. The Big Mek is leaving the Unit composed of a himself and a 'little' Mek. Again, can you provide any actual rules stating that the IC rules are being overridden or removed/restricted somehow?

I'm looking for friendly debate here, but I'm posting rules and you're saying because. I need to see a rule removing or modifying the IC rules.

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