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And 15 ounces of lies.

 Breotan wrote:
Isn't Forge World already doing these guys?

Nope. To die hard ad-mech fans it's actually been a frustrating part of what FW is doing. The Mechanicum is effectively a sovereign state within the Imperium and its military forces have their own structure. Skitarii are one specific branch of the Mechanicum's military. What FW has been doing are like the Mechanicum's Imperial Guard while the Skitarii are more akin to the Space Marines. It's not so simple because there is a lot more overlap within the Mechanicum's forces but it gives you the basic idea. The FW Mechanicum army are really just the planetary laborers, the robots and other troops the Mechanicum uses to maintain planetary order, and the different types of tech priests. Skitarii are a more self-autonomous expeditionary force.

This could be why Forgeworld has been so adamant in saying they are not going to produce Skitarii units.

 aka_mythos wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
Isn't Forge World already doing these guys?

Nope. To die hard ad-mech fans it's actually been a frustrating part of what FW is doing. The Mechanicum is effectively a sovereign state within the Imperium and its military forces have their own structure. Skitarii are one specific branch of the Mechanicum's military. What FW has been doing are like the Mechanicum's Imperial Guard while the Skitarii are more akin to the Space Marines. It's not so simple because there is a lot more overlap within the Mechanicum's forces but it gives you the basic idea. The FW Mechanicum army are really just the planetary laborers, the robots and other troops the Mechanicum uses to maintain planetary order, and the different types of tech priests. Skitarii are a more self-autonomous expeditionary force.

Forgeworld are casting it as being because in the 30K era the Mechanicum were even more feudal and fractured than they are by the time of 40K, and the Skitarii are specifically the forces of the Martian Mechanicum under the direct control of the Fabricator General, while the stuff FW are putting out are a mix of the military levies of the various non-Martian powers and stuff that's rare/nonexistent in 40K. After the Heresy Mars supposedly exerts a greater amount of control over the overall Mechanicus military using the Skitarii as a model.

Sure, that's just an excuse to do their own stuff rather than make the bloody Skitarii the long-term Mechanicus fans were hoping for, but it's at least plausible.

As for the rumour...honestly I'm not sure how to feel. I mean, sure, if it's true, the models will probably be very good even if they don't end up fitting my own headcanon vision of Skitarii, a fantastic source of bitz if nothing else. But. I just don't know if I trust them with the fluff any more. After the Iron Hands debacle, and the way they're turning the WHFB background into mulch to flog the new big kits, I can't shake the sensation that if they ever actually do try to flesh out the Mechanicum as a playable force, even just an ally-dex, the price will be an atrocious butchery of their background. All the old knowing-wink "percussive maintenance" dry humour stripped away in favour of po-faced over-serious writing, taking away all the ambiguity that allows people to ignore the stupid gak that's crept in over the years like depicting them as nothing more than puppets of the C'Tan or the Emperor, or even worse that I don't even want to try imagining.

The Skitarii were around in 30K. The organisational structure of the Mechanicum given in the third book shows them as being there. The Stigmatah is just another branch. FW probably just hasn't gotten t Skitarii for the same reasons no one has done Skitarii yet: GW-proper won't let them.

These guys may be off on their rumor mill records but it is not unusual for them to get an early lead or see something but report it wrong. I remember them seeing the Knights way early and reporting as a Marine super Dreadnought or something. It is possible this may actually pan out to be a sisters release. I would not doubt that something is coming but their finite record is off so at this point is all I would trust is there is a large penitent engine/grey knight knight style model coming.

Tempestus could be a template for future "allies" codices, with a couple new kits, combined with a few borrowed units, to make a mini-faction that is mainly meant to ally with a larger codex. Stormtroopers, Inquisition, rumors of Harlequins goin this route, and now possibly Mechanicus. At this point, Sisters may drop to the level of one of these "supplementary" codices instead of a full new book.
2-3 box sets, 1-4 clampacks, a book, done. Lots of good will for finally doing Harlequins or Mechanicus, while boosting sales of other armies to ally with them to fill in the gaps.

strange walkers with bound humans within its structure? sounds more like a bastardized penitent engine to me.

not sure about the rumor, but i wouldn't put it past GW to 'capitalize' on the popularity of mechanicum forces from the HH.

but lets face it, 40k needs the mechanicum represented. they're a huge part of the imperium's survival, so would be great if the rumor is true but i think if its going to be anything its going to be an SoB re-release, with some ridiculous new models that were never needed and break the game...

sorry, but after the whole 'wolf-sleigh' and 'alien ice which never melts' my expectations on the sophistication of their future product ideas and fluff have diminished considerably.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The Skitarii were around in 30K. The organisational structure of the Mechanicum given in the third book shows them as being there. The Stigmatah is just another branch. FW probably just hasn't gotten t Skitarii for the same reasons no one has done Skitarii yet: GW-proper won't let them.

I think the HH AdMech units we've seen so far belong not to the larger Adeptus Mechanicus military but to Legio Cybernetica and its branches. Now, this is something I've made up in my head to explain the absence of Skitarii, so it's probably unbased or even disproved right away in the books. I haven't got past book two, to be fair.

The Taghmata Omnissiah list in HH Book 3 is supposed to be representative of the full forces that a forgeworld can draw upon from its own resources, which is why they're a mix of the cheap tech-thralls, elite Myrmidons, Thallax, and Battle Automata.

The Skitarii regiments answered to Mars alone.

Which is why I expect we wouldn't see Forgeworld Skitarii until we get to the war on Mars.

And because I have to be a pedant about this: There was no Adeptus Mechanicus in 30K. It's Mechanicum.

 Bronzefists42 wrote:
In perfect honesty if they do make Skitarii (which I hope they do) I feel like GW might just end up dropping SOB all together.

Nope.

What they've been doing with the Sisters is very deliberate. Holding on to the IP by continuing to produce models and "sustaining" the army with infrequent rules updates. It's low cost, high margin, even if the overall sales are still pretty low. Inflate the price of the models so nobody actually buys them, and you don't have to produce/stock very many. The e-codexes are just data, so they don't have to be stocked either, and can be sold in infinite quantities and stored essentially for free.

You genuinely believe that that's their SoB strategy?

Give me a break...

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
If I can ally them if Necrons, I will be very happy.
I want the machine-cultists that were hinted back in 3rd ed, dammit.

Well let's see. Admech= Mars=imprisoned Void Dragon=Cyber space god=machine cult=necron ties= Etherium/c'tan phase blades/neural shredder=officio assassinorum=Inquisition=heaven? 6 degrees of separation?

Back on topic. The Mechanicum is currently one of the most profitable armies in FW's warchest. It would be heretical for GW not to capitalize on a mini-dex and line release. The dark and grotesque Mechanicum images and artwork that littered the pages of early '80's wh material is the gravitas that seized my nearly 30 year romance with 40k. GW can't lose with this venture.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You genuinely believe that that's their SoB strategy?

Give me a break...

I dunno...it seems like that is in fact exactly what they've done with Sisters. The question is whether Sisters are in a coma because 'business', or whether it's because they aren't sure what to do with them.

My personal opinion is that the studio hasn't done much with them just because the concept isn't that compelling after you get past "power armored nuns with guns." The creative opportunities with AdMech seem pretty limitless in comparison. IMO. Note that I'm NOT calling for Sisters to be squatted, though. I don't wish that on anyone.

More on topic though, I'm highly skeptical of these rumors. Seem like exactly the type of invented rumors that the clickbait sites thrive on.

So over the years I've seen a few test-sculpts for various SOB models from GW, both when I worked there and after.

But I've never really gotten a reason why they haven't been done yet in plastic, just some vague "we're having trouble".

So does anyone know what the hold-up is? Do we know what part of the sculpt is causing the problem?

Sob should have never been made a codex. The 2 or 3 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Inquisition and Grey Knights. At bare minimum, SoB should be a dataslate. How many zealot, bible fanatics do we need? I call blatant favoritism in lieu of tits on GW behalf.

If Sob was an attempt at the market grab of the female persuasion, it was a flub. If they intended for that, all they needed to do is disrobe a few Dark eldar femmes and have them nag enemies to death. Or just seduce them out of their gear.

 Nyghoma wrote:
Sob should have never been made a codex.

Based on whose criteria? Yours?

How can any one of us justify what armies "deserve" or "should" get Codices over another? The simple answer is that we can't. I like to make fun of SoB players because they're hilariously humourless and possessed of a form of aggressive/defensive self-loathing for their army that is really easy to ridicule, but I don't think for a second that they shouldn't get full support from GW (Codes, full plastic model-line release, etc.).

 mechanicalhorizon wrote:

So does anyone know what the hold-up is? Do we know what part of the sculpt is causing the problem?

The robes. Specifically, the big cloth sleeves. I believe it was Jes Goodwin who described the problem at some seminar in the past, stating that to recreate them properly in plastic would require too many pieces or something because of the undercuts.

I say GW just needs to get with the times and invest some money in better molding equipment. Some good slide core tooling ought to resolve that problem, if they really wanted to.

 Nyghoma wrote:
Sob should have never been made a codex. The 2 or 3 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Inquisition and Grey Knights. At bare minimum, SoB should be a dataslate. How many zealot, bible fanatics do we need? I call blatant favoritism in lieu of tits on GW behalf.

If Sob was an attempt at the market grab of the female persuasion, it was a flub. If they intended for that, all they needed to do is disrobe a few Dark eldar femmes and have them nag enemies to death. Or just seduce them out of their gear.

DA should have never been made a codex. The 2 or 3 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Space Marines. At bare minimum, DA should be a dataslate. How many backstabbing, "secrets" fanatics do we need?

BA should have never been made a codex. The 2 or 3 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Space Marines. At bare minimum, BA should be a dataslate. How many frothing, sparkling fanatics do we need?

GK should have never been made a codex. The 2 or 3 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Space Marines and Inquisition. At bare minimum, GK should be a dataslate. How many zealot, demon hunting fanatics do we need?

SW should have never been made a codex. The 2 or 3 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Space Marines. At bare minimum, SW should be a dataslate. How many BL praised, drunk fanatics do we need?

IK should have never been made a codex. The 2 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Imper... Astra Militarium. At bare minimum, IK should be a dataslate. How many zealot, robot riding fanatics do we need?

30k should have never been made a ruleset. The 2 or 3 cool things in the rules could have easily been delegated to 40k. At bare minimum, 30k should be a campaign. How many space marines do we need?



I like the template you've provided.

SirDonlad wrote:
sorry, but after the whole 'wolf-sleigh' and 'alien ice which never melts' my expectations on the sophistication of their future product ideas and fluff have diminished considerably.

Oh geez. Now you're making me wonder if I really want to read the new SW codex.

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

 Nyghoma wrote:
Sob should have never been made a codex. The 2 or 3 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Inquisition and Grey Knights. At bare minimum, SoB should be a dataslate. How many zealot, bible fanatics do we need? I call blatant favoritism in lieu of tits on GW behalf.

If Sob was an attempt at the market grab of the female persuasion, it was a flub. If they intended for that, all they needed to do is disrobe a few Dark eldar femmes and have them nag enemies to death. Or just seduce them out of their gear.

DA should have never been made a codex. The 2 or 3 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Space Marines. At bare minimum, DA should be a dataslate. How many backstabbing, "secrets" fanatics do we need?

BA should have never been made a codex. The 2 or 3 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Space Marines. At bare minimum, BA should be a dataslate. How many frothing, sparkling fanatics do we need?

GK should have never been made a codex. The 2 or 3 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Space Marines and Inquisition. At bare minimum, GK should be a dataslate. How many zealot, demon hunting fanatics do we need?

SW should have never been made a codex. The 2 or 3 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Space Marines. At bare minimum, SW should be a dataslate. How many BL praised, drunk fanatics do we need?

IK should have never been made a codex. The 2 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Imper... Astra Militarium. At bare minimum, IK should be a dataslate. How many zealot, robot riding fanatics do we need?

30k should have never been made a ruleset. The 2 or 3 cool things in the rules could have easily been delegated to 40k. At bare minimum, 30k should be a campaign. How many space marines do we need?



I like the template you've provided.

Hahaha nice. But let's not get carried away lol. As crazy as this sounds, I do agree with some of those positions.

The handling of SM chapters could've been streamlined similar to the adeptus astartes in the current SM codex. Some gear and special rules could have been restricted to chapter only. But then we lose all those years of fluff and cannon, in addition to gorging a codex that's already brimming with 800+ pages as it stands. Generally I'm not for over simplify anything. I do have an appreciation for details and adornment. Ultimately merging all chapters into one bible isn't practical.

Inquisition, wholeheartedly agree. Jam Gk, Sob, OA, and anything else that falls under the inquisition's "direct" sphere of influence. I understand why 7th edition split them up, but it could have been sorted differently while maintaining easier access to all imperium.

IG is fine. Won't touch that. IK definitely needs to be leashed. It gets a bye though only because it just had its debut in 2014. No sense in retooling a codex that just had a new revision the year before. Although it should be fused with our theoretical inquisition or potential(and hopefully) Admech codex, again maintaining it's availability to all imperium books.

 Nyghoma wrote:
Sob should have never been made a codex. The 2 or 3 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Inquisition and Grey Knights. At bare minimum, SoB should be a dataslate. How many zealot, bible fanatics do we need? I call blatant favoritism in lieu of tits on GW behalf.

If Sob was an attempt at the market grab of the female persuasion, it was a flub. If they intended for that, all they needed to do is disrobe a few Dark eldar femmes and have them nag enemies to death. Or just seduce them out of their gear.

I'd have to check the original 2nd Ed Codex, but I'm sure the designers at the time had a paragraph in there stating that the Sisters would work best with Allies.

alphaecho wrote:

 Nyghoma wrote:
Sob should have never been made a codex. The 2 or 3 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Inquisition and Grey Knights. At bare minimum, SoB should be a dataslate. How many zealot, bible fanatics do we need? I call blatant favoritism in lieu of tits on GW behalf.

If Sob was an attempt at the market grab of the female persuasion, it was a flub. If they intended for that, all they needed to do is disrobe a few Dark eldar femmes and have them nag enemies to death. Or just seduce them out of their gear.

I'd have to check the original 2nd Ed Codex, but I'm sure the designers at the time had a paragraph in there stating that the Sisters would work best with Allies.

Sisters and Grey Knights were both written as components of larger Inquisition lists that included Stormtroopers, the Inquisition, and the Assassinorium. The problem is that GW keeps subdividing the lists so they can charge people $30 for extra supplements.

I had a Daemonhunters army back in 4e that I'd need three Codexes to run today.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

OomieCrusha wrote:

SirDonlad wrote:
sorry, but after the whole 'wolf-sleigh' and 'alien ice which never melts' my expectations on the sophistication of their future product ideas and fluff have diminished considerably.

Oh geez. Now you're making me wonder if I really want to read the new SW codex.

The 40k folks at my FLGS call Grimnar's new mount the "Yiff Skiff". That should give you some idea how seriously we're taking it.

(Also, "Murderfang"? Did one of the designers let their five-year-old kid name him?)

'Murderfang' sounds like the name of a Dethklok song.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Sisters and Grey Knights were both written as components of larger Inquisition lists that included Stormtroopers, the Inquisition, and the Assassinorium. The problem is that GW keeps subdividing the lists so they can charge people $30 for extra supplements.

I had a Daemonhunters army back in 4e that I'd need three Codexes to run today.

They basically turned codex deamon hunters into three codexs meant only for allieing to other armies. Let's be honest, the new grey knight book is bassicly one step away from being a allied codex anyway in it's current state.

In all honesty, you can say the above about the current digital sisters of battle codex since they made codex storm troopers and codex Inquisition.

But we've gone super off topic at this point i think.

SoB should have never been made a codex. The 2 or 3 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Inquisition and Grey Knights. At bare minimum, SoB should be a dataslate. How many zealot, bible fanatics do we need? I call blatant favoritism in lieu of tits on GW behalf.
------------
Sisters and Grey Knights were both written as components of larger Inquisition lists that included Stormtroopers, the Inquisition, and the Assassinorium. The problem is that GW keeps subdividing the lists so they can charge people $30 for extra supplements.

I hate to add to the off-topic of this thread, but I have to chime in with my own minutia. They existed years and years before the Daemonhunters Codex (since about 1998). Back when Grey Knights were a single Terminator squad that you could only take as allies if you fought against a Chaos army (daemons did not exist on their own either). The recent e-codex was not their first codex as a standalone force.

Back on topic, I think Adeptus Mechanicus would be the first thing released in a long time that would do best standing on it's own. Stormtroopers should never have been out of the Imperial Guard codex, Grey Knights should never have been anything more than a power armor and/or terminator squad option for a single "Inquisition" codex that used other Inquisitorial special units (along with Deathwatch squads), and the upcoming Harlequins should have just been in the Eldar codex like they always have been since 2nd edition.

The forces of the Adeptus Mechanicus are finally a force that does not exist as a small group of squads/characters allied to a larger organization.

 Nyghoma wrote:

IG is fine. Won't touch that. IK definitely needs to be leashed. It gets a bye though only because it just had its debut in 2014. No sense in retooling a codex that just had a new revision the year before. Although it should be fused with our theoretical inquisition or potential(and hopefully) Admech codex, again maintaining it's availability to all imperium books.

Heck, the entire ruleset got a revision after what.. two years? Knights can certainly get leashed. Plus it makes everyone spend more money, we could even get it at $50 this time.

My favorite part of this hobby is giving GW my money.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
How can any one of us justify what armies "deserve" or "should" get Codices over another?

Based on whether or not they have a distinct gameplay niche. SoB are just another MEQ shooting army, especially now that the GK precedent pretty strongly suggests that we're never going to see any of the inquisition elements in the SoB codex again. You could easily move them into C:SM without losing any of their fluff or gameplay.

(And yes, this standard results in other armies losing their codex.)

Why is everyone tonight dead set on trolling the SOB players?