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pretre wrote: Torsion Cannon - S8 AP 1 Torsion (Does D3 HP instead of 1 per result for Glance, 3 for Pen)
Hmm. Can hurt non vehicles better than arc can, but not as good against vehicles as the arc weapon. I'm assuming. Didn't crunch any numbers.
3 HP on a pen is basically a kill. I'd like to see the numbers because that sounds pretty nice.
Wow. No gak. 3 HP will wreck rhinos, dreadnoughts, wave serpents. S8 doesn't suck.
d3 HP on a glance doesn't suck either.
yeah, aveage 2 hull points on a glance. Twice as effective.
Although imagine a regular weapon with double the number of shots....
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wilson wrote: Is anyone else thinking that this is WAY over the top? 165 pt unit spitting out 18 Grav shots?
Against orks or terminators. It makes a difference.
Also remember cents have the Grav Amp, so they get to reroll to wound, these guys dont.
Cents are considerably more expensive and not troops choice though. 3 of these dudes in a pod is 200 pts. - 85 pts cheaper than 3 cents with Grav in a pod. If bs3 is not changeable then they won't be that bad but if it can go up to BS4 and ignores cover... Well. Good lord what do you call that!
pretre wrote: Torsion Cannon - S8 AP 1 Torsion (Does D3 HP instead of 1 per result for Glance, 3 for Pen)
Hmm. Can hurt non vehicles better than arc can, but not as good against vehicles as the arc weapon. I'm assuming. Didn't crunch any numbers.
3 HP on a pen is basically a kill. I'd like to see the numbers because that sounds pretty nice.
Wow. No gak. 3 HP will wreck rhinos, dreadnoughts, wave serpents. S8 doesn't suck.
d3 HP on a glance doesn't suck either.
yeah, aveage 2 hull points on a glance. Twice as effective.
Although imagine a regular weapon with double the number of shots....
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wilson wrote: Is anyone else thinking that this is WAY over the top? 165 pt unit spitting out 18 Grav shots?
Against orks or terminators. It makes a difference.
Also remember cents have the Grav Amp, so they get to reroll to wound, these guys dont.
Cents are considerably more expensive and not troops choice though. 3 of these dudes in a pod is 200 pts. - 85 pts cheaper than 3 cents with Grav in a pod. If bs3 is not changeable then they won't be that bad but if it can go up to BS4 and ignores cover... Well. Good lord what do you call that!
I believe the technical term is "overkill". lol
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/12 18:12:59
Wilson wrote: Is anyone else thinking that this is WAY over the top? 165 pt unit spitting out 18 Grav shots?
Against orks or terminators. It makes a difference.
Also remember cents have the Grav Amp, so they get to reroll to wound, these guys dont.
Cents are considerably more expensive and not troops choice though. 3 of these dudes in a pod is 200 pts. - 85 pts cheaper than 3 cents with Grav in a pod. If bs3 is not changeable then they won't be that bad but if it can go up to BS4 and ignores cover... Well. Good lord what do you call that!
Well yes.
6 shots is better than 5
and 30" is much better than 24"
but cents are going to get more hits because of BS4
cents will get more wounds because of rerolling to wound, particularly on things other than 2+ saves
cents have a 2+ save
cents have ATSKNF.
If +1BS and Ignores cover are a thing, well they are clearly better
Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++
nudibranch wrote: The entry is kinda cut off, but does anyone know exactly what the hydraulic claw does?
S+2 AP - Melee, Unwieldy, Iron Grip.
I think (there's some missing) that if you hit with at least one attack you get a free S10 attack.
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pretre wrote: Torsion Cannon - S8 AP 1 Torsion (Does D3 HP instead of 1 per result for Glance, 3 for Pen)
Hmm. Can hurt non vehicles better than arc can, but not as good against vehicles as the arc weapon. I'm assuming. Didn't crunch any numbers.
3 HP on a pen is basically a kill. I'd like to see the numbers because that sounds pretty nice.
Wow. No gak. 3 HP will wreck rhinos, dreadnoughts, wave serpents. S8 doesn't suck.
d3 HP on a glance doesn't suck either.
yeah, aveage 2 hull points on a glance. Twice as effective.
Although imagine a regular weapon with double the number of shots....
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wilson wrote: Is anyone else thinking that this is WAY over the top? 165 pt unit spitting out 18 Grav shots?
Against orks or terminators. It makes a difference.
Also remember cents have the Grav Amp, so they get to reroll to wound, these guys dont.
Cents are considerably more expensive and not troops choice though. 3 of these dudes in a pod is 200 pts. - 85 pts cheaper than 3 cents with Grav in a pod. If bs3 is not changeable then they won't be that bad but if it can go up to BS4 and ignores cover... Well. Good lord what do you call that!
Rather fair, in my opinion. T5 W2 is pretty tough, but remember a min squad of 3 only has 6 wounds on a 4+ save. That's not particularly too durable, and can be doubled out by Vindicators/Orbital Bombardments or the like. Losing one model cuts you out of 6 shots! Losing two wounds in any normal Troops unit only makes you lose out on 2-4 shots generally.
Centurions not only have the same shooting and wounds, but they have that all important 2+ save, which lets them stick around against small arms fire.
Super Newb wrote: Uh guys, are we sure that torsion cannon has no special rule for non-vehicles?
I see "PV" and "PC" as abbreviations. They can't both stand for hull points
Oh, good call. That's D3 wounds or (presumably) D3 HP.
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It seems like Ad mech is a whole lot of awesome for not a lot of drawbacks..
Not that im complaining or anything. just wondering why there is no mass hysteria by now.
Assuming these guys don't get Doctrina, they don't hit a lot. Neither one is TL, is it?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/12 18:29:14
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Super Newb wrote: Uh guys, are we sure that torsion cannon has no special rule for non-vehicles?
I see "PV" and "PC" as abbreviations. They can't both stand for hull points
Oh, good call. That's D3 wounds or (presumably) D3 HP.
Just saw a typed out version of that rule courtesy of skalpyknock, at B+C who posted the original pic:
Canon à Torsion: Portée 24" F8 PA1 Lourde1 Contorsion Gravitique
Contorsion Gravitique: Chaque fois qu'une figurine autre qu'un véhicule subit une Blessure infligée par cette arme, elle perd 1D3 PV au lieu de 1. Chaque fois qu'une figurine de véhicule subit une touche pénétrante infligée par cette arme, elle perd 1D3 PC au lieu de 1.
Canticles of the Omnissiah (So what I do every day in History class)
Naftka wrote:
Ok, they are an army wide special rule that gives a lot of flexibility each round to your CM army. Units with the rule gain benefits according the number of units with the rule on the table and are stronger the more units you have. There are 6 canticles and each one can only be used once per game. Benefits include cover bonus's, bonus's to strength, re-rolling failed attacks from either close combat or shooting, fearless, or creating extra hits in close combat. 8 units gives the strongest bonus 4-7 a medium bonus, and 1-3 a standard bonus.
Apparently this? Though it's Naftka so apply a health portion of salt.
Canon à Torsion: Portée 24" F8 PA1 Lourde1 Contorsion Gravitique Contorsion Gravitique: Chaque fois qu'une figurine autre qu'un véhicule subit une Blessure infligée par cette arme, elle perd 1D3 PV au lieu de 1. Chaque fois qu'une figurine de véhicule subit une touche pénétrante infligée par cette arme, elle perd 1D3 PC au lieu de 1.
Torsion Cannon : Range 24 S8 AP1 Heavy 1 Gravity Contorsion Gravity Contorsion : Whenever a model other than a vehicle undergoes injury inflicted by this weapon , it loses 1D3 Wounds instead of 1. Whenever a vehicle model suffers a penetrating hit inflicted by this weapon , it loses 1D3 HP instead of one .
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/05/12 18:37:10
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Canon à Torsion: Portée 24" F8 PA1 Lourde1 Contorsion Gravitique Contorsion Gravitique: Chaque fois qu'une figurine autre qu'un véhicule subit une Blessure infligée par cette arme, elle perd 1D3 PV au lieu de 1. Chaque fois qu'une figurine de véhicule subit une touche pénétrante infligée par cette arme, elle perd 1D3 PC au lieu de 1.
Torsion Cannon : Range 24 S8 AP1 Heavy 1 Gravity Contorsion Gravity Contorsion : Whenever a model other than a vehicle undergoes injury inflicted by this weapon , it loses 1D3 Wounds instead of 1. Whenever a vehicle model suffers a penetrating hit inflicted by this weapon , it loses 1D3 HP instead of one .
Ohhh. While that makes it better, it still suffers from the 1 BS3 shot problem on a 50pt model... Alsooo it's competing with the heavy arc riles, which look a lot more reliable.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/12 18:41:55
Gravity Contorsion : Whenever a model other than a vehicle undergoes injury inflicted by this weapon , it loses 1D3 Wounds instead of 1. Whenever a vehicle model suffers a penetrating hit inflicted by this weapon , it loses 1D3 HP instead of one .
Ohhh. While that makes it better, it still suffers from the 1 BS3 shot problem on a 50pt model... Alsooo it's competing with the heavy arc riles, which look a lot more reliable.
Yeah... Not so great for those reasons, but still an interesting choice.
DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
2015/05/12 18:44:18
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus for 40k new pics p162
Wilson wrote: 250 pts of Grav cents will do 9.77 wounds to a WK.
165 pts of Grav jonny 5's will do 6.75 wounds to a wraith knight.
Before saves***
If formation is true to give +1 BS then that's 10.1 wounds
Mental.
The WK gets the invulnerable save and the FNP, so it's not as screwed as some other targets.
The gravs with +1 BS and ignore cover instantly wipe out every Jetbike squad they target though, but funnily enough the Scatbikes do the same to them. You need less than 100 points of Scatbikes to wipe out a 165 point grav squad in one volley. Whoever fires first, wins.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/05/12 18:48:14
Super Newb wrote: Thanks pretre. I wonder how that works with single wound models in a unit. Do the extra wounds go to other models?
No, that's not how those sorts of things work. Like D weapons or the Vindicare ammo, the model makes 1 save. If failed, it takes multiple wounds. It's not d3 wounds to the unit, it's d3 wounds to the model, so if it's "overkill", the model just dies.
Wilson wrote: 250 pts of Grav cents will do 9.77 wounds to a WK.
165 pts of Grav jonny 5's will do 6.75 wounds to a wraith knight.
Before saves***
If formation is true to give +1 BS then that's 10.1 wounds
Mental.
The WK gets the invulnerable save and the FNP, so it's as screwed as some other targets.
The gravs with +1 BS and ignore cover instantly wipe out every Jetbike squad they target though, but funnily enough the Scatbikes do the same to them. You need less than 100 points of Scatbikes to wipe out a 165 point grav squad in one volley. Whoever fires first, wins.
I'd put my money on the one with 6" more range and insanely higher mobility
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/12 18:45:40
Canon à Torsion: Portée 24" F8 PA1 Lourde1 Contorsion Gravitique
Contorsion Gravitique: Chaque fois qu'une figurine autre qu'un véhicule subit une Blessure infligée par cette arme, elle perd 1D3 PV au lieu de 1. Chaque fois qu'une figurine de véhicule subit une touche pénétrante infligée par cette arme, elle perd 1D3 PC au lieu de 1.
Torsion Cannon : Range 24 S8 AP1 Heavy 1 Gravity Contorsion
Gravity Contorsion : Whenever a model other than a vehicle undergoes injury inflicted by this weapon , it loses 1D3 Wounds instead of 1. Whenever a vehicle model suffers a penetrating hit inflicted by this weapon , it loses 1D3 HP instead of one .
Ohhh. While that makes it better, it still suffers from the 1 BS3 shot problem on a 50pt model... Alsooo it's competing with the heavy arc riles, which look a lot more reliable.
it isnt about it's anti vehicle cabability. Arc rifles win there. But it can threaten MCs, where arc riffles cannot.
Next to the grav cannons, it certainly looks as if they are better. But if taking breachers. Arc rifles do a better job against vehicles, but cannot hurt MCs well. Torsion can hurt MCs or vehicles.
Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++
Super Newb wrote: Thanks pretre. I wonder how that works with single wound models in a unit. Do the extra wounds go to other models?
No, that's not how those sorts of things work. Like D weapons or the Vindicare ammo, the model makes 1 save. If failed, it takes multiple wounds. It's not d3 wounds to the unit, it's d3 wounds to the model, so if it's "overkill", the model just dies.
Wilson wrote: 250 pts of Grav cents will do 9.77 wounds to a WK.
165 pts of Grav jonny 5's will do 6.75 wounds to a wraith knight.
Before saves***
If formation is true to give +1 BS then that's 10.1 wounds
Mental.
The WK gets the invulnerable save and the FNP, so it's as screwed as some other targets.
The gravs with +1 BS and ignore cover instantly wipe out every Jetbike squad they target though, but funnily enough the Scatbikes do the same to them. You need less than 100 points of Scatbikes to wipe out a 165 point grav squad in one volley. Whoever fires first, wins.
I'd put my money on the one with 6" more range and insanely higher mobility
I doubt the gun range is an issue with these units, but you're right that battle focus usually does the trick.
Also dont all WK now just run the double Ds? so no invul but probably foot in ruin itis
Not my WKs. In my opinion the invulnerable save + D-sword + Suncannon combo being a free swap is a no brainer.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/05/12 18:50:51
2015/05/12 18:54:02
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus for 40k new pics p162
MrFlutterPie wrote: And so the omnissiah declared over the vox network: Let there be grav and it was well within the statistically acceptable range of superior performance.
Deus Requiem Domini
2015/05/12 18:54:48
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus for 40k new pics p162
So who feels bad for spending $10 each on arc rifles for Vanguard now that you could just use the heavy arc rifles, probably gets 3 per kit of which everyone will be using grav cannons
I doubt the gun range is an issue with these units, but you're right that battle focus usually does the trick.
Also dont all WK now just run the double Ds? so no invul but probably foot in ruin itis
Not my WKs. In my opinion the invulnerable save + D-sword + Suncannon combo being a free swap is a no brainer.
I think admech would rather deal with the sword+suncannon than double dcannons. A fair number of people are going to be running their own knight and some Robots and those stand up well to suncannons and scatter lasers. They can also play keep away from something with a Dsword until it can be brought down by Grav or Rad
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/12 18:57:13
Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++
2015/05/12 19:00:58
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus for 40k new pics p162
Exergy wrote: So who feels bad for spending $10 each on arc rifles for Vanguard now that you could just use the heavy arc rifles, probably gets 3 per kit of which everyone will be using grav cannons
I sold all my arc rifles and used FW guns to represent them. So instead of adding to demand by buying more arcs I added to the supply by selling them. I helped lower the price on arc rifles. Lol.
