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The dark angels librarian's second mastery level costs 35 points and he is 65 points base. Is this in line with codex space marines (a 100 pt ml 2 librarian with power armor) or am I getting the short end of the stick?

So you can take a cheaper(if you don't upgrade or the same cost if you do) librarian with mastery level 1 in dark angels, not really a big deal in comparison.

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:
The dark angels librarian's second mastery level costs 35 points and he is 65 points base. Is this in line with codex space marines (a 100 pt ml 2 librarian with power armor) or am I getting the short end of the stick?

Space Marines are costed the same base cost as a Libby, but are 25pts for an extra mastery level...

Let's not post exact point-costs on this forum

Yes, Dark Angels pay a bit more for a lvl-2 Librarian.
With C:SM they decided that the upgrade should be a bit cheaper and you are 'stuck' with the old price.

But it's only slightly more, it took till this month to reduce the Blood Angel-Librarian in points.
Ours was 50% more expensive and was still the best HQ we had.

10n points generally speaking isn't likely to be signficent. it could certinly be reduced to C: SM standard but it's not bad. IIRC dark angels space marines have access to presience, which codex marines don't

ten points is a lot for a guard auxillary, sm players dont seem to understand ten points is a f--ing huge amount for a guy who mains ig.

Kangodo wrote:
Let's not post exact point-costs on this forum

Yes, Dark Angels pay a bit more for a lvl-2 Librarian.
With C:SM they decided that the upgrade should be a bit cheaper and you are 'stuck' with the old price.

But it's only slightly more, it took till this month to reduce the Blood Angel-Librarian in points.
Ours was 50% more expensive and was still the best HQ we had.

That rationalization is extremely questionable. The expectation in each edition is for similar models to cost similar points. You don't compare it to codex's that came our for a different edition altogether and say, well, our codex too a long time to be brought up to speed.... lol

The extra ten points is probably for the inner circle special rule.

VanHallan wrote:
That rationalization is extremely questionable. The expectation in each edition is for similar models to cost similar points. You don't compare it to codex's that came our for a different edition altogether and say, well, our codex too a long time to be brought up to speed.... lol

The point was more that it's not such a big disaster and that the 7th edition Codex will bring you down 10 points.
We actually used to ally in Dark Angels because with mandatory Troops it was almost as expensive as our Librarian.

Yes, Dark Angels pay a little more. It doesn't really matter that much.

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:
Yes, Dark Angels pay a little more. It doesn't really matter that much.

until you realise the entire codex is loaded with overcosted nonsense and then your army is overpriced like you wouldnt believe.

 ionusx wrote:

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:
Yes, Dark Angels pay a little more. It doesn't really matter that much.

until you realise the entire codex is loaded with overcosted nonsense and then your army is overpriced like you wouldnt believe.

This. Grim Resolve is pretty decent on tac marines, but Deathwing get the overcost like mad. Deathwing Assault is cool, but when everything dies to AP2, having overpriced terminators sucks.

 ionusx wrote:

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:
Yes, Dark Angels pay a little more. It doesn't really matter that much.

until you realise the entire codex is loaded with overcosted nonsense and then your army is overpriced like you wouldnt believe.

This is true and this is why when other marine players (as a guard main myself marine players piss me off when they complain) say stuff like this is

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:
Yes, Dark Angels pay a little more. It doesn't really matter that much.

it really gets on my nerves. 10 points adds up and is quite a bit. I can buy a fifth of an infantry squad with ten points in guard, two flamers/grenade launchers/vox casters, or five fething sniper rifles with ten points. To not tell me that ten points is not a big deal. five sniper rifles is pretty significant. I can ensure orders to a platoon with that many points (2 vox casters). Why should I be forced to pay 35 when 25 is the standard in every other fething army book. Access to divination doesn't matter, guard have that and their upgrades are 25 points. This pisses me off. I'd would have been ok if it was something like, c:sm base libbies cost 75 pts so the total for ml 2 was the same. This makes me angry. Fething ruleswriters.

Rant over.

 Josey4u wrote:
The extra ten points is probably for the inner circle special rule.

This. It's part of the reason our terminators cost more too. Fearless, depending on the game, can easily be worth the extra points. Sure, I'd be happy if my librarian cost the same as other librarians, but he's better than other librarians.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ionusx wrote:

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:
Yes, Dark Angels pay a little more. It doesn't really matter that much.

until you realise the entire codex is loaded with overcosted nonsense and then your army is overpriced like you wouldnt believe.

My bikes are disgustingly overpriced if you compare them to white scars, who also get all sorts of fun special rules. Ravenwing are supposed to be some of the best bikers in the galaxy and don't even get skilled rider?

Space Marines don't pay for any of their Chapter Tactics. The bad ones cost exactly the same as the good ones. At least, once upon a time, you had to choose a downside (even if it was only not taking allies in a game where allies were almost unknown anyway).

Ravenwing are slightly overpriced. I'd prefer to chop about 3 points a model from them (and White Scars should pay 3 points more) but then I only field three man squads anyway. Six models die just as fast as three, and cost more.

Deathwing are severely overpriced, but then all terminators are except, possibly, Grey Knight terminators, who are only slightly overpriced.

Ravenwing are just slightly overpriced, but deathwing are suffering from a steroids version of tactical termies "I pay for too much stuff I don't need" situation

Though Freman saying GK termies are slightly overpriced makes me laugh. GK termies are UNDERpriced. fortunately just by a bit.
SW and CSM have the properly costed termies, simply because they don't pay for having fists. (seriously, who ever needs a power fist for EVERY model?)

I have my fingers crossed that just MAYBE Deathwing gets a good price adjustment with the rumored new codex. Bring knights down a little. Or even pay what we pay but give them the availability to assault on the turn they enter in ie, Deathwing assault- Like an actual one, not drop in then get shot to pieces doing nothing.

 Josey4u wrote:
I have my fingers crossed that just MAYBE Deathwing gets a good price adjustment with the rumored new codex. Bring knights down a little. Or even pay what we pay but give them the availability to assault on the turn they enter in ie, Deathwing assault- Like an actual one, not drop in then get shot to pieces doing nothing.

Right now we're paying extra to get something unique to our chapter. AKA chapter tactics. Do you see any other space marine chapter paying to get chapter tactics? Didn't think so.

You guys need to pipe the feth down.

The Dark Angels librarian is UNDERcosted and that's a fact.

Having access to Divination is HUGE as you can stick him to any ranged SM squad and exponentially amplify their damage with Prescience as it is a primaris power so you'll always know it. And going ML2 with Divination only makes things even better.

And thats not all. Inner Circle makes him (and his squad) Fearless and also get the PE (CSM) special rules. That means the entire unit re-rolls all 1s for both failed to-hit and failed to-wound rolls both in ranged and close combat against CSM.

HUGE.

 Sir Arun wrote:
You guys need to pipe the feth down.

The Dark Angels librarian is UNDERcosted and that's a fact.

Having access to Divination is HUGE as you can stick him to any ranged SM squad and exponentially amplify their damage with Prescience as it is a primaris power so you'll always know it. And going ML2 with Divination only makes things even better.

And thats not all. Inner Circle makes him (and his squad) Fearless and also get the PE (CSM) special rules. That means the entire unit re-rolls all 1s for both failed to-hit and failed to-wound rolls both in ranged and close combat against CSM.

HUGE.

Okay I had to comment on this. 1st, simmer down, Mom is coming to the basement with your hotpocket. I'm just poking at you in good humor.

Second- The fact they get a bonus against one army is little bonus for the points that go up for that addition. Some may never play a Chaos player just for simple fact they don't have one to play against. Are they tooled to play Chaos? You bet they are, you are absolutely right there.

But what if you are always playing Eldar, Orks, Necrons or other marines? There are a LOT of marine standard units we DON'T have. That said, I am hopeful we get a rework here this year.

I hope this is the year of campaigns and formations which help out the downtrodden. (DA CSM etc)

Mmmm the DA librarian is undercosted, and I think he's that way for a reason. He's there to buff other troops, DA armies mostly consist of elites like Terminators and bikes. They tend to have small numbers of models, so anything the librarians can do to make them more useful is good.