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2015/01/02 18:41:50
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
True. I'd take the fluff astartes over the starcraft marine, but I'd take starcraft marines over the table top marines all day every day. Tabletop marines would also be slaughtered by zerglings and hydralisks. Because the boltgun sucks on the tabletop.
I'd also say the Terran armies from Starcraft are far more realistic and functional than the inanity that GW has dreamed up for the Imperium. Seriously? WWI tank hulls? I'm not just not a fan of the retro-future in general.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/02 19:12:29
2015/01/02 19:56:50
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Psienesis wrote: Despite the fact that the Terran Empire in StarCraft is the Confederacy in Space?
Yeah, pretty much. Starcraft fluff isn't Game of Thrones, but it's a hell of a lot better than GW's. In my view, at least. I pretty much despise GW's fluff.
2015/01/02 20:12:16
Subject: Re:Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Tough, worlds apart when it comes to armor and weaponry, the basic Terran militia marine is nonetheless Starcraft's equivalent of the 40K Guardsmen.
Bcause of this, I think it would be much more prudent to put space marines up against the elites of the Terrans, like the Maradur ect.
Let see how well those gloryfied war relics fair agianst something that uses anti-tank rockets as it's main armament.
amanita wrote: So dare I ask what happens if he farts? Could it blow the seals on the lower portion of his armor? Or is a space marine's system immune to such mundane fluctuations of bodily conduct?
Moktor wrote: No one should be complaining about this codex. It gave regular Eldar a much needed buff by allowing us to drop Fire Dragons and D-Scythe Wraithguard wherever we want, without scatter. Without this, I almost lost a game once. It was scary. I almost took to buying fixed dice to ensure it never happened again.
2015/01/02 20:19:45
Subject: Re:Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Redcruisair wrote: Tough, worlds apart when it comes to armor and weaponry, the basic Terran militia marine is nonetheless Starcraft's equivalent of the 40K Guardsmen.
Bcause of this, I think it would be much more prudent to put space marines up against the elites of the Terrans, like the Maradur ect.
Let see how well those gloryfied war relics fair agianst something that uses anti-tank rockets as it's main armament.
I am pretty sure that means that 40k marines still win as they have many different types of marines tactical, assualt and devastator squads.
Infact the space marines fight as a team not as individuals which is very different in terms of the Terran Marines and Marauders who fight on an individual basis.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2015/01/02 20:47:48
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
The marines also fight as individuals, at least on the table top. In fact, the marines have the least list synergy of almost every army in the game, afaik.
2015/01/02 20:50:24
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Martel732 wrote: The marines also fight as individuals, at least on the table top. In fact, the marines have the least list synergy of almost every army in the game, afaik.
They look that way but the best part of that codex is figuring out list synergy. I'd put them on par with guard.
The west is on its death spiral.
It was a good run.
2015/01/02 20:53:59
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Martel732 wrote: The marines also fight as individuals, at least on the table top. In fact, the marines have the least list synergy of almost every army in the game, afaik.
They look that way but the best part of that codex is figuring out list synergy. I'd put them on par with guard.
There is no synergy to figure out. Ie, there is no mechanistic way for the units to help each other. The Guard have WAY MORE synergy in their list via the order mechanic. At least the Starcraft terrans have the medivac.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/02 20:54:32
2015/01/02 20:57:20
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
If you put Starcraft marines armor and SM armor on equal footing, Starcraft marines win because their gun is made to punch through their own armor, and would therefore punch through SM armor as well.
Bobthehero wrote: If you put Starcraft marines armor and SM armor on equal footing, Starcraft marines win because their gun is made to punch through their own armor, and would therefore punch through SM armor as well.
It is quite silly that marine guns can't penetrate the armor of their hated rivals, the CSM. This is completely the reverse of how modern weapons really work.
2015/01/02 21:00:55
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Bobthehero wrote: If you put Starcraft marines armor and SM armor on equal footing, Starcraft marines win because their gun is made to punch through their own armor, and would therefore punch through SM armor as well.
Martel732 wrote: The marines also fight as individuals, at least on the table top. In fact, the marines have the least list synergy of almost every army in the game, afaik.
Your thinking of Custodes.
Space Marines are Soldiers not warriors.
Who else is saying that space marines weapons are not meant to pentrate power armor. It can.
Where are you people pulling this info from? your arses?
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2015/01/02 21:03:28
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Martel732 wrote: The marines also fight as individuals, at least on the table top. In fact, the marines have the least list synergy of almost every army in the game, afaik.
Your thinking of Custodes.
Space Marines are Soldiers not warriors.
Who else is saying that space marines weapons are not meant to pentrate power armor. It can.
Where are you people pulling this info from? your arses?
Last I checked, the only "synergy" in the marine book was coming from psykers. That's not very much.
AP 5 does not penetrate 3+ armor. That's where I'm getting it from. Power armor in 40K just magically doesn't function 33% of the time. Pretty crappy armor if you ask me.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/02 21:10:37
2015/01/02 21:18:59
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Bobthehero wrote: If you put Starcraft marines armor and SM armor on equal footing, Starcraft marines win because their gun is made to punch through their own armor, and would therefore punch through SM armor as well.
Although... Bolters are grenade launchers.
Bolters are techincally anti-tank and anti-personal. Space marine tactical squads can take out tanks if well positioned.
Space marines in general have extremely high intelligence and IQ.
Where the Marines from starcraft are not gifted as such.
Space Marines have an IQ usually above two hundred.
A space marine is also trained to fight with his brothers.
A marine is usually a convict or a militamen or sometimes they are military trained.
Like space marines, Terran Marines have different types of Armor. Marauder, WarPig and several other types.
Terran Marines are trained to hold positions and to strike. They are the main bystead of the Terran Armies.
Space Marines are extremely hard to kill even blown apart they can still survive not to mention that most have centuries of experience. In the Fluff Space Marines defeated an entire planetary system that used power armor but they still lost to the space marine legions.
Martel732 wrote: The marines also fight as individuals, at least on the table top. In fact, the marines have the least list synergy of almost every army in the game, afaik.
Your thinking of Custodes.
Space Marines are Soldiers not warriors.
Who else is saying that space marines weapons are not meant to pentrate power armor. It can.
Where are you people pulling this info from? your arses?
Last I checked, the only "synergy" in the marine book was coming from psykers. That's not very much.
AP 5 does not penetrate 3+ armor. That's where I'm getting it from. Power armor in 40K just magically doesn't function 33% of the time. Pretty crappy armor if you ask me.
Yes because going by game rules marines are just as good as a guardsmen. Go by the fluff not the rulebook.
Space Marines in the older codexes were quite more powerful than they are right now. Space marines would kill entire squads of chaos space marines.
If you go by the fluff. It is really rare for a space marine to die.
Case and Point. The Emperor's Scythes.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/02 21:24:21
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2015/01/02 21:29:06
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
The bolter is a nice weapon, to be sure, but people seem to be forgetting it has a 24" range. Frankly i'd rather have a battle rifle and get some long-range shots in.
2015/01/02 21:36:14
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Torga_DW wrote: The bolter is a nice weapon, to be sure, but people seem to be forgetting it has a 24" range. Frankly i'd rather have a battle rifle and get some long-range shots in.
Techincally that 24 inch could be representive of miles.
Infact lets not forget that most 40k space battles happen over KILOMETRES.
And lets not forget that most space marines have extremely well increased skills. Most space marines don't even get into close combat because of how accurate they usually are.
24" on the board is equalivent to two kilometres.
A single marine squad can stop an entire war.
Not to mention battlefield experience.
ITs no Competition the Space Marines win Every bloody time.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/02 21:38:46
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2015/01/02 21:43:36
Subject: Re:Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Yeah, close-combat weapons are pretty useless when employed against a walking tank with rocket launchers for fists. Besides, what can chainswords even do to a Maradur? Maradurs have none of the weakpoints space marine suffers from.
Devastators have to stand still before they can shoot, Maradurs don't. Devastators are also a niche space marine unit, whereas Maradurs are the "tacticals" of an Terran military force.
amanita wrote: So dare I ask what happens if he farts? Could it blow the seals on the lower portion of his armor? Or is a space marine's system immune to such mundane fluctuations of bodily conduct?
Moktor wrote: No one should be complaining about this codex. It gave regular Eldar a much needed buff by allowing us to drop Fire Dragons and D-Scythe Wraithguard wherever we want, without scatter. Without this, I almost lost a game once. It was scary. I almost took to buying fixed dice to ensure it never happened again.
2015/01/02 22:08:27
Subject: Re:Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Asherian Command wrote: I am pretty sure that means that 40k marines still win as they have many different types of marines
Whom all die equally well to anti-tank weaponry.
Yes and then An assault marine comes in and slaughters them. Lets not forget the fact that those are for tanks. Not for infantry. A force consistently made of only anti-tank weaponry will be outmatched in terms of fire power by the sheer tactical brilliance. Where maruaderers are nothing without their leader.
I'm sure anti-tank rockets are supiror to whatever bolters uses.
Hahaha. Oh dear I do hope your joking. first they have to hit the space marines. Space Marines are super humans. Good luck hitting one in a slow and cumbersome weapon. Maruaders have to stand still in order to fire. Remember?
Yeah, close-combat weapons are pretty useless when employed against a walking tank with rocket launchers for fists. Besides, what can chainswords even do to a Maradur? Maradurs have none of the weakpoints space marine suffers from.
Not really as space marines use power weapons that can cut through tank armor. Maruaders can be killed and countered by hydralisks and zerglings.
A space marines chainsword can cut through ceramite.
Bolters are made to kill heavy armored units.
And lets not forget there are different types of bolters and bolters are not the only weapon to an astartes.
In the lore entire squads can be deployed with Kraken Bolters.
Space marines will equip for any situation if they are facing tyranids they will get flamers or heavy bolters.
Not to mention how long a space marine has fought wars. Giving them more combat efficency than a Maruader or a Marine of Kohral who are very in experienced and very rarely are they actually veterans.
Devastators have to stand still before they can shoot, Maradurs don't. Devastators are also a niche space marine unit, whereas Maradurs are the "tacticals" of an Terran military force.
Yes but you will get sniped by the space marine devastators. By the time the maruaders know what hit them their entire infastructure and command stations. AS seen in the Battle of Kohral when the commanders were all killed and the entire Kohral Army went into disarry after losing contact with its leaders.
The Space Marines are intelligent enough to strike out and destroy the enemies command centre and kill the leader.
Read the Lore mate. I got that from Starcraft 1's Hand Book it literally says. "That Marines are Militia Men and are sometimes Convicts." Meaning they fight based on individuality not on squad based tactics.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2015/01/02 22:10:00
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
A Rhino moving Combat Speed moves 6" (500 meters per your estimate). A Rhino itself is only 3" long (250 meters per your estimate). Per GW the official length of a Rhino is 6.6 meters. Well short of your estimate.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/02 22:22:28
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
2015/01/02 22:22:49
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
The UED lost to Kerrigan, the Protoss and Sons of Kohral, iirc. Kerrigan then betrayed her allies, and finished off the weakened UED while they were defending the young Overmind.
At least that's what I remember. It's been something like 4 years since I played Brood War.
A Rhino moving Combat Speed moves 6" (500 meters per your estimate). A Rhino itself is only 3" long (250 meters per your estimate). Per GW the official length of a Rhino is 6.6 meters. Well short of your estimate.
Keep in mind that the vehicles (or TT measurements in generale) are not to scale. A Rhino is supposed to be able to carry 10 space marines. Can you fit 10 space marines into a rhino.
Assuming it is to scale though -
If the rhino modle is 3 inches and the actual size is 6.6 meters, then if my calculations are correct that would mean each inch is 2.2 meters.
24 * 2.2 = 52.8 meters.
Effective Firing range of an M16 = about 600m
So yeah...Tabletop measurements are pretty dumb and inaccurate. Fine for a skirmish level game, absurd for an actual war-game.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/02 22:32:49
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2015/01/02 22:34:43
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Thats the problem with using 'ingame' metrics to prove how awesome space marines are. Mjolnir armour is weak because it can only take a couple of plasma rounds before the occupant dies. While with marine armour its pretty much a guaranteed kill with one shot.
Marines don't need power weapons to blow up most tanks in melee, their fists do it just fine. I think we need to bring the hulk into this discussion.
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