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2015/01/06 23:01:17
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Superhumans whose armor fails utterly 33% of the time. Autoguns, spears, punches from grots, stiff breezes can all kill a marine right through power armor. The same superhumans that take a wound from a human punch 33% of the time instead of 50% like a normal human. Some superhumans, there, let me tell you.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/06 23:04:19
2015/01/06 23:05:03
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Ashiraya wrote: Is it utterly stupid and something I am pulling up just to highlight the absurdity of the comparison? Certainly. But it's canon.
But there is no cannon in 40k . More seriously, please do not pull out an Asherian and take that quote in the most literal stupid sense, just like his “plasma is a star” quote. Do you know what moves too fast for the human eye to follow? The cups in the hand of a good street gambler. Or really, many many close-up magician's trick. That is the kind of “too fast to follow” we are talking about, not the “mach speed” fast to follow.
Except magicians are not too fast to follow by any stretch. If they were they wouldn't need to use all the misdirection to make sure you're not watching where the trick happens.
So unless Space Marines have Sisters of Battle in sparkly, revealing outfits to distract you whilst they "move faster than the eye can follow" then it's not really a very good comparison
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/06 23:07:12
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2015/01/06 23:05:05
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Martel732 wrote: Superhumans whose armor fails utterly 33% of the time. Autoguns, spears, punches from grots, stiff breezes can all kill a marine right through power armor.
Eldar 44% of the time
Guardsmen 89%
Orks 55%
Necrons 33%
You keep making these things and then I just point you to the other races who have worse survival rates overall.
Space marines have a great survival rate. Stop putting them down as much as you are -.-
33% mortality rate is not that bad compared 89%
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2015/01/06 23:06:55
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
"Space marines have a great survival rate. Stop putting them down as much as you are -.-"
You are truly deluded. I have massacred and in turn massacre marines by the droves. There's nothing worse than losing 20+ a turn to weapons that aren't even AP 3, but that's how it currently works.
The marines are a joke in practice and I prove it every time I go up against them.
2015/01/06 23:08:37
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Martel732 wrote: "Space marines have a great survival rate. Stop putting them down as much as you are -.-"
You are truly deluded. I have massacred and in turn massacre marines by the droves. There's nothing worse than losing 20+ a turn to weapons that aren't even AP 3, but that's how it currently works.
The marines are a joke in practice and I prove it every time I go up against them.
I don't care what you do on the tabletop. This is about the lore. If you don't like space marines guess what you do.
You ignore threads like these.
Best way to do it is to avoid it! Instead of being mean and rude to people who do like space marines.
Meanwhile...... Eldar for life!
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2015/01/06 23:08:42
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Martel732 wrote: Superhumans whose armor fails utterly 33% of the time. Autoguns, spears, punches from grots, stiff breezes can all kill a marine right through power armor.
Eldar 44% of the time
Guardsmen 89%
Orks 55%
Necrons 33%
You keep making these things and then I just point you to the other races who have worse survival rates overall.
Space marines have a great survival rate. Stop putting them down as much as you are -.-
33% mortality rate is not that bad compared 89%
Except none of those races are superhumans who can apparently win wars with only 1000 men.
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2015/01/06 23:09:36
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Martel732 wrote: Superhumans whose armor fails utterly 33% of the time. Autoguns, spears, punches from grots, stiff breezes can all kill a marine right through power armor.
Eldar 44% of the time
Guardsmen 89%
Orks 55%
Necrons 33%
You keep making these things and then I just point you to the other races who have worse survival rates overall.
Space marines have a great survival rate. Stop putting them down as much as you are -.-
33% mortality rate is not that bad compared 89%
Except none of those races are superhumans who can apparently win wars with only 1000 men.
Thats for balance reasons. If they made them any more powerful they would slap the hell out of every race.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2015/01/06 23:10:53
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Martel732 wrote: "Space marines have a great survival rate. Stop putting them down as much as you are -.-"
You are truly deluded. I have massacred and in turn massacre marines by the droves. There's nothing worse than losing 20+ a turn to weapons that aren't even AP 3, but that's how it currently works.
The marines are a joke in practice and I prove it every time I go up against them.
I don't care what you do on the tabletop. This is about the lore. If you don't like space marines guess what you do.
You ignore threads like these.
Best way to do it is to avoid it! Instead of being mean and rude to people who do like space marines.
Meanwhile...... Eldar for life!
Oh, but you see, I'm so very sick of marines not living up the lore in any semblance, shape, form or fashion. So I am utterly perplexed by anyone who puts any stock into GW's crappy fiction, that isn't even represented in their own game.
2015/01/06 23:14:43
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Martel732 wrote: "Space marines have a great survival rate. Stop putting them down as much as you are -.-"
You are truly deluded. I have massacred and in turn massacre marines by the droves. There's nothing worse than losing 20+ a turn to weapons that aren't even AP 3, but that's how it currently works.
The marines are a joke in practice and I prove it every time I go up against them.
I don't care what you do on the tabletop. This is about the lore. If you don't like space marines guess what you do.
You ignore threads like these.
Best way to do it is to avoid it! Instead of being mean and rude to people who do like space marines.
Meanwhile...... Eldar for life!
Oh, but you see, I'm so very sick of marines not living up the lore in any semblance, shape, form or fashion. So I am utterly perplexed by anyone who puts any stock into GW's crappy fiction, that isn't even represented in their own game.
Actually, I agree that it's not represented, but I instead veer in the direction of not putting any stock in the game and calling it crappy instead.
I should think of a new signature... In the meantime, have a
2015/01/06 23:18:25
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Martel732 wrote: "Space marines have a great survival rate. Stop putting them down as much as you are -.-"
You are truly deluded. I have massacred and in turn massacre marines by the droves. There's nothing worse than losing 20+ a turn to weapons that aren't even AP 3, but that's how it currently works.
The marines are a joke in practice and I prove it every time I go up against them.
I don't care what you do on the tabletop. This is about the lore. If you don't like space marines guess what you do.
You ignore threads like these.
Best way to do it is to avoid it! Instead of being mean and rude to people who do like space marines.
Meanwhile...... Eldar for life!
Oh, but you see, I'm so very sick of marines not living up the lore in any semblance, shape, form or fashion. So I am utterly perplexed by anyone who puts any stock into GW's crappy fiction, that isn't even represented in their own game.
I could say the same about alot of games and races in general.
For the purposes of balance.
The lore does that. Infact I found the tabletop not as interesting as the lore. And I don't think it is crappy. I've read some really bad literature, GW is in no way crappy.
In terms of lore it is another reason why people often like me complain about how the spartans in halo reach were killed so easily. IE Kat getting shot in the head even though she had a helmet on.
Even though you had been shot many times by needle rifles.
One of the other reasons why I gave up on the tabletop is because of how bad the gameplay got and how easy it was to abuse Falcons and wave serprents or flying units in general.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/06 23:23:37
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2015/01/06 23:22:08
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
There's almost always discrepancies between gameplay and fluff in games that are not single player, and many that are single player as well.
40K's discrepancies are pretty much unforgivable, so I choose to ignore the lore in its entirety. It took them 20 years to put eternal warrior on the Imperium's oldest space marine. That's how much the lore matters. And that is not at all.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/06 23:25:17
2015/01/06 23:25:23
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Given how consistent the game has largely been, and how radically the fluff has changed and how dramatically the fluff has escalated, I'd say the issue lies far more with the fluff having any and all semblance of scale and proportion as opposed to something being dramatically wrong with the game.
Marine fluff of 1987 was radically different from what it is today, and marine fluff around the most superlative capabilities of a Space Marine in the mid-late 90's (when the current basics of SM's were established and they largely look identical to the way they do now) were nothing compared to what Black Library portrays of them today. The first books about Space Marines did not have them doing the absurd things that BL writes them doing today, and it was very clear that there were scarier, more powerful things than Space Marines, as opposed to most fluff today where it's almost always "marines are the best at everything" and the suspension of disbelief is increasingly difficult to maintain.
Meanwhile, from late RT-7th edition, the Space Marine has remained largely consistent in the actual game.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
2015/01/06 23:27:27
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
" the Space Marine has remained largely consistent in the actual game."
That's actually true, but they've been mostly a bad troop for most of the game's history. They were good in 3rd and I hear 4th, and that's about it. See, the lore forgot to mention entire armies of space marines getting shot off the table *before they could even act* by 2nd ed noise marine armies. Yup, that sure sounds superhuman to me.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/06 23:31:09
2015/01/06 23:31:21
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
There's almost always discrepancies between gameplay and fluff in games that are not single player, and many that are single player as well.
Like Most fantasy Games where this unkillable evil! Is somehow killed by a level 1 item.
Its another reason why I think the first bit of the fantasy game is actually the whole game.
Also Martel732 No the tabletop is not quantifable as it does not actually show the strength there is no comparison to the two. WE are not given actual numbers.
Which doesn't exist in this game.
No duh.
I guess have their bar set pretty low.
You have no idea.
Reading Student works makes me need to.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2015/01/06 23:33:37
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
To be fair, most "basic" troop type units in general weren't worth much in 2nd, it was psykers, killy monsters/HQ's, specialist infantry, and heavy weapons.
That said, I think we both know we disagree on the usefulness and capabilities of Tac's in general
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
2015/01/06 23:36:16
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Vaktathi wrote: To be fair, most "basic" troop type units in general weren't worth much in 2nd, it was psykers, killy monsters/HQ's, specialist infantry, and heavy weapons.
That said, I think we both know we disagree on the usefulness and capabilities of Tac's in general
I can never keep track of who thinks what. But I personally find marines embarrassing to field.
2015/01/06 23:38:21
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Asherian Command wrote: I didn't say plasma is a star. I said it explodes into a miniaturized star.
Big difference.
Asherian Command wrote: If I had no respect for you. I wouldn't be responding to you and the block button would be abused to no end.
There is a block button? I need to use it more.
A Town Called Malus wrote: So unless Space Marines have Sisters of Battle in sparkly, revealing outfits to distract you whilst they "move faster than the eye can follow" then it's not really a very good comparison
Close-up magicians do not have that. That would not work. Because close-up.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2015/01/06 23:38:47
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Vaktathi wrote: Given how consistent the game has largely been, and how radically the fluff has changed and how dramatically the fluff has escalated, I'd say the issue lies far more with the fluff having any and all semblance of scale and proportion as opposed to something being dramatically wrong with the game.
Marine fluff of 1987 was radically different from what it is today, and marine fluff around the most superlative capabilities of a Space Marine in the mid-late 90's (when the current basics of SM's were established and they largely look identical to the way they do now) were nothing compared to what Black Library portrays of them today. The first books about Space Marines did not have them doing the absurd things that BL writes them doing today, and it was very clear that there were scarier, more powerful things than Space Marines, as opposed to most fluff today where it's almost always "marines are the best at everything" and the suspension of disbelief is increasingly difficult to maintain.
Meanwhile, from late RT-7th edition, the Space Marine has remained largely consistent in the actual game.
ITs why I prefer the idea that space marines aren't warrior monks. But just soldiers. The Early Black Liby was quite great. Especially the older horus heresy books and the older grey knight books where they struggled to kill big big things.
But considering how stupid the lore gets. Sometimes. Its just better to ignore the over the top bits.
Sort of like comic books. IE everything with deadpool.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vaktathi wrote: To be fair, most "basic" troop type units in general weren't worth much in 2nd, it was psykers, killy monsters/HQ's, specialist infantry, and heavy weapons.
That said, I think we both know we disagree on the usefulness and capabilities of Tac's in general
It reminds me of how people used to see Dire Avengers they used to be really bad. Until the newer 4th eldar codex came out, then the 5th ed one made striking scorpions kind of a fun build and then everyone figured out that fire dragons + wraith guard + wraithlordd spam was viable.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/06 23:43:05
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2015/01/06 23:45:13
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
A Town Called Malus wrote: So unless Space Marines have Sisters of Battle in sparkly, revealing outfits to distract you whilst they "move faster than the eye can follow" then it's not really a very good comparison
Close-up magicians do not have that. That would not work. Because close-up.
But they do have lots of superfluous hand gestures and speech etc. which accomplish the same thing.
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2015/01/06 23:57:24
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Space marines use purity seals and spehs's mahreens-style speak to achieve “faster than the eye can follow” movement.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/06 23:58:32
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2015/01/07 02:35:09
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Grasping one talon in the formidable grip of his power fist, Neleus dragged the lictor creature out of the sand and held it momentarily, dangling from its own fore-talon. Then, with a swift movement, he crushed the talon in his fist and launched the hapless creature in the air with a swing of his immense arm, riddling it with hellfire shells as it flew. By the time it landed back in the sea of its own kind, the creature was little more than a shredded husk.
Terminators can throw a 1 ton lictor with a single arm and riddle it with bullets.
Spoiler:
Balder's fellow veterans were in formation around him, discharging volleys of lasfire from their multilasers, providing support for Hoenir's squad.
Veterans use Multilasers.
Spoiler:
With a blinding blast of red light, the Assault Marine's jump-pack went critical and its fuel cells detonated, firing him down towards the ground like a giant bolter shell. Even from where he was standing, Gabriel could see the Marine was working to release the grenades that were clipped around his belt, flinging them down into the formation of eldar below him even as he rocketed down towards them. The disciplined aliens seemed unphased (sic) for a fraction of a second, holding their firing vectors until they realised what was about to happen. Then, as the xenos creatures began to scatter away from the Wave Serpents, the string of grenades smacked into the ground and detonated all at once, blowing a huge crater into the desert and rocking the nearest Wave Serpent. In an instant, the Marine's jump-pack roared down towards the vehicle, spiralling on its axis now that it had been jettisoned by the Marine himself, until it punched heavily into the gunnery cockpit on top of the Wave Serpent, blowing it clean off the vehicle and engulfing the whole thing in a giant red fireball. The Marine himself ploughed down into the desert nearby.
Jump Packs go boom with enough strength to explode a Wave Serpent.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/07 02:35:18
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
2015/01/07 02:57:37
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Happyjew wrote: Wait if we are using the fluff, then let's see...
Spoiler:
Grasping one talon in the formidable grip of his power fist, Neleus dragged the lictor creature out of the sand and held it momentarily, dangling from its own fore-talon. Then, with a swift movement, he crushed the talon in his fist and launched the hapless creature in the air with a swing of his immense arm, riddling it with hellfire shells as it flew. By the time it landed back in the sea of its own kind, the creature was little more than a shredded husk.
Terminators can throw a 1 ton lictor with a single arm and riddle it with bullets.
Spoiler:
Balder's fellow veterans were in formation around him, discharging volleys of lasfire from their multilasers, providing support for Hoenir's squad.
Veterans use Multilasers.
Spoiler:
With a blinding blast of red light, the Assault Marine's jump-pack went critical and its fuel cells detonated, firing him down towards the ground like a giant bolter shell. Even from where he was standing, Gabriel could see the Marine was working to release the grenades that were clipped around his belt, flinging them down into the formation of eldar below him even as he rocketed down towards them. The disciplined aliens seemed unphased (sic) for a fraction of a second, holding their firing vectors until they realised what was about to happen. Then, as the xenos creatures began to scatter away from the Wave Serpents, the string of grenades smacked into the ground and detonated all at once, blowing a huge crater into the desert and rocking the nearest Wave Serpent. In an instant, the Marine's jump-pack roared down towards the vehicle, spiralling on its axis now that it had been jettisoned by the Marine himself, until it punched heavily into the gunnery cockpit on top of the Wave Serpent, blowing it clean off the vehicle and engulfing the whole thing in a giant red fireball. The Marine himself ploughed down into the desert nearby.
Jump Packs go boom with enough strength to explode a Wave Serpent.
What This lore is actually kind of awesome.
What books are these from.
From the lore accordingly we also have space marines doing back flips and razorbacks turning into land raiders XD
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2015/01/07 03:07:55
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
The first two are from Warrior Brood. The third from Dawn of War Ascension.
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
2015/01/07 03:13:47
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
.
