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 Talys wrote:
@Az & Korinov - I actually meant the safety of giving your credit card information and your personal details to a vendor in China who you probably don't even know the identity of.

A popular recaster site shut down by GW last year has several posts on its FB page with customers who never got their stuff, and obviously things can be lost in the mail.

With GW/FW, they'll just resend anything lost, and PayPal protects you as well (though I don't recall anyone who has ever had to go that route).

My point though, wad that except for expensive FW models and (expensive) FW single model heroes, the recasters aren't really cheaper. With many GW kits, the prices are close (if not more, factoring discounts). And the quality is great on some, while iffy on others.

I'm fine playing with people who have knockoffs (a friend has more than $5000 of Chinese knockoffs -- though I'm pretty sure he ha three times that in GW stuff), so I get to see quite a bit of it. I just don't see the appeal, generally speaking, with the exception of a small number of big kits (revenants and knights being at the top).

Well, using the two main sites that recasters use, and I know for a fact this applies to direct order with at least one of the larger one, either Paypal or an equivalent system with, IMO, superior protection is the order of the day.

The seller never sees your card details.

As for prices?

Right now I can get any Primarch for around £15-18, one of my only actual recast purchases was a Sternguard unit, with 10 sets of legs to allow for a full squad, and it cost ~£15 including postage.

I will agree, the lower cost plastic kits (typically the troop choices) don't often offer much of a saving over buying from a discounter, but when you consider the price often contains postage, often still offer a saving.

 Desubot wrote:


All i know about its physical effects is that its brittle and it off gasses like feth (but doesn't smell once painted and sealed)

Ether way im pretty sure recast sites are not actually legal or the Chinese government just doesn't give a skavens warpstone about it.

Quality of resin and casting varies wildly, most of what I've seen (which isn't a huge amount, but enough to form an opinion) has ranked above the worst I've seen from legitimate sources.

There aren't really recast 'sites' (one or two maybe?) most sellers operate through marketplace style sites, but, no, periodically the game of Whack A Mole commences and the sellers get gak down, only to resurface once more some time later.

 Talys wrote:
My point though, wad that except for expensive FW models and (expensive) FW single model heroes, the recasters aren't really cheaper. With many GW kits, the prices are close (if not more, factoring discounts). And the quality is great on some, while iffy on others.

Not true. I have seen recasters list GW finecast products (such as the thunderfire cannon) for more than 50% off and zero shipping.

 Rippy wrote:
When I buy a bigmac I don't think "feth the little guy in a factory who made the wrapping and boxes for this meal". I am pretty sure this thought doesn't cross many people's minds when they are buying food. I don't even know the facts for that at all. I know that when Big W started using Bangaleshi workers, the public cried out at their expense, though a journalist simply going over there and speaking to the workers showed how thankful the people were for the influx of jobs.
Though when it comes to stealing other people's intellectual property, I have control over that. I know that the music, the miniatures, the movies are owned by someone who can rightfully get the money they are entitled to by someone making a purchase of their copyrighted product.
I guess what I am saying is, although factory workers in other countries having decent human rights is a big deal, and it hurts my heart that people are willing to exploit people for money is terrible, what can I do about it? Honestly, most products floating around in Western Countries are made in those factories. What I can do is not steal. See my point?

Outside of that one instance, most of these aren't just exploitations for money, its pretty serious human rights violations. And you do have control over that, in that you can choose not to buy an iPad (or Samsung equivalent) or eat MacDonald's food and support their corporate warmachine. But obviously, IP infringement > worker deaths and job outsourcing right?

 Sir Arun wrote:

 Talys wrote:
My point though, wad that except for expensive FW models and (expensive) FW single model heroes, the recasters aren't really cheaper. With many GW kits, the prices are close (if not more, factoring discounts). And the quality is great on some, while iffy on others.

Not true. I have seen recasters list GW finecast products (such as the thunderfire cannon) for more than 50% off and zero shipping.

I won't disagree that there are some items with some savings. However, usually, they are tiny in actual dollars. For instance, I just bought a Vulkan He'stan (finecast). $21.50 USD. My store gives me 30% off of regular stuff, 25% off of web order stuff. So, I paid $16.10. I could have probably gotten him for $11 from a recaster... But what am I going yo do with $5? I'd rather have 0 risk and support both the manufacturer and my local economy, and buy from someone I know and like.

Practically every plastic vehicle makes no sense recast, nor any multimodel kit, nor small walker. And you have so few ICs that the price hardly matters. The only two I can think of for GW kits are IK and WK, and then you're dealing with resin instead of plastic (riptides are cheap). Where it really makes sense financially is a FW titan, where you can get a $300+ model for $60-$100.

 Talys wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:

 Talys wrote:
My point though, wad that except for expensive FW models and (expensive) FW single model heroes, the recasters aren't really cheaper. With many GW kits, the prices are close (if not more, factoring discounts). And the quality is great on some, while iffy on others.

Not true. I have seen recasters list GW finecast products (such as the thunderfire cannon) for more than 50% off and zero shipping.

I won't disagree that there are some items with some savings. However, usually, they are tiny in actual dollars. For instance, I just bought a Vulkan He'stan (finecast). $21.50 USD. My store gives me 30% off of regular stuff, 25% off of web order stuff. So, I paid $16.10. I could have probably gotten him for $11 from a recaster... But what am I going yo do with $5? I'd rather have 0 risk and support both the manufacturer and my local economy, and buy from someone I know and like.

Practically every plastic vehicle makes no sense recast, nor any multimodel kit, nor small walker. And you have so few ICs that the price hardly matters. The only two I can think of for GW kits are IK and WK, and then you're dealing with resin instead of plastic (riptides are cheap). Where it really makes sense financially is a FW titan, where you can get a $300+ model for $60-$100.

To be fair most local stores dont hand out the 30% level discounts. its pretty close to the 40% trade rate for the business them selves. i think the best i ever see is 25% off online.

If everyone sold at 30% no one would be doing direct business

Edit: Stop copies me

If you're getting 30% off from your local store, then that is hardly a fair comparison. Equally, as the top level wholesale is 40% off, if that deep a discount is what your store needs to do to keep business, I wouldn't forecast a long life for their business, retail on a 10% margin is near impossible.

 Desubot wrote:

To be fair most local stores dont hand out the 30% level discounts. its pretty close to the 40% trade rate for the business them selves. i think the best i ever see is 25% off online.

If everyone sold at 30% no one would be doing direct business

Yes, that's true. I buy an awful lot of stuff, which is why I get a nice discount, but 20% is really easy to find, and 25% is not hard to find. If you save up for black friday/boxing day (and are willing to put up with the crowds) 25%-30%, or even a tiny bit better is even possible.

On top of that, most local store that are owner operated will take cash and no receipt in lieu of taxes


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Azreal13 wrote:
If you're getting 30% off from your local store, then that is hardly a fair comparison. Equally, as the top level wholesale is 40% off, if that deep a discount is what your store needs to do to keep business, I wouldn't forecast a long life for their business, retail on a 10% margin is near impossible.

I get 25% and 30% at the two local stores I buy in; both have been around since the mid or late 80s. I bet in any major city with a large number of stores I could get 25%.

By the way, walk-in price in my town is 10%-20% discount off of stuff for anyone,even if you buy like, $20.

 Talys wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

To be fair most local stores dont hand out the 30% level discounts. its pretty close to the 40% trade rate for the business them selves. i think the best i ever see is 25% off online.

If everyone sold at 30% no one would be doing direct business

Yes, that's true. I buy an awful lot of stuff, which is why I get a nice discount, but 20% is really easy to find, and 25% is not hard to find. If you save up for black friday/boxing day (and are willing to put up with the crowds) 25%-30%, or even a tiny bit better is even possible.

On top of that, most local store that are owner operated will take cash and no receipt in lieu of taxes

I'm sorry, what? Not two pages ago you were claiming IP infringement is wrong, but this seems like tax evasion on the business' part.

I love Jrelly89's attempt at deamonizing everyone else on completely unrelated topics. Just because someone works in a factory in another country doesn't mean they are treated horrible, fella. Also, just because someone is getting taxes doesn't automatically mean it is tax fraud. Calm down mate, you are cheapening the "recasts is fine" argument.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All I am saying is, for better or worse, I have no idea who is making my beautiful samsung galaxy s5. I presume it isn't someone crying chained to a desk 22 hours a day, because these sort human rights issues aren't as ripe as they used to be. I trust Samsung until I directly hear EVIDENCE of their exploitation. I am not saying that copy right > human rights horrors, so please stop embarrassing yourself by putting words in my mouth I did not say. You have control to not steal and to not buy stuff from corporations in the chance that they might be exploiting their workers (recasters included ironically). It is your choice is what I am saying. You can immorally steal if you want too, just don't expect sympathy.

Selling an item, as a business, for cash and offering no receipt to avoid record of the sale is the very definition of tax fraud actually.

No, Rippy, jreilly is not saying that, you're actually doing exactly what you're accusing him of and trying to demonise his argument.

Large corporations are guilty of abusing cheap foreign labour, it is a matter of record. If you support those corporations with your purchases, yet condemn people buying recasts as immoral you're hurling inorganic projectiles in a heavily glazed domicile.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Talys wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

To be fair most local stores dont hand out the 30% level discounts. its pretty close to the 40% trade rate for the business them selves. i think the best i ever see is 25% off online.

If everyone sold at 30% no one would be doing direct business

Yes, that's true. I buy an awful lot of stuff, which is why I get a nice discount, but 20% is really easy to find, and 25% is not hard to find. If you save up for black friday/boxing day (and are willing to put up with the crowds) 25%-30%, or even a tiny bit better is even possible.

On top of that, most local store that are owner operated will take cash and no receipt in lieu of taxes

I'm sorry, what? Not two pages ago you were claiming IP infringement is wrong, but this seems like tax evasion on the business' part.

Yup. I personally don't care if the government doesn't get sales tax fir several reasons:

1. If the store shipped it to an out of jurisdiction customer, or I bought it from an out of jurisdiction vendor, it would be tax free. Just like if you bought it from an out of country vendor.

2. If I went to an out of jurisdiction event and bought product or prepaid gift cards, that would be tax free.

3. I actually practically never do this as I don't walk around with hundreds or thousands of dollars of cash. But on the odd occasion that I do, the store owner asks me if I need a receipt ("You don't need a receipt, do you?"), and if I say no, I always happen to get some money back. I don't even ask for it. It just happens. Certainly, that isn't a crime.

4. Whether my hairdresser reports their tip, or my waiter, or the FLGS storeowner... That just isn't my business.

Edit: To add to the list, if I pay a gardener, piano teacher, handyman, or any other of a long list of services and negotiate a tax price (quite often, THEY ask for it), my suspicion may be that they aren't remitting the tax, but this may nit be the case, and either way, it isn't my problem, is it? Even if someone like that provides me a service, I don't want the receipt, because what am I going to do with it? And if I guy models, likewise, I tell them to keep or destroy the receipt (unless it's credit card) because I there is a problem, they don't need me to drag the receipt back.

 Azreal13 wrote:
No, Rippy, jreilly is not saying that, you're actually doing exactly what you're accusing him of and trying to demonise his argument.

Large corporations are guilty of abusing cheap foreign labour, it is a matter of record. If you support those corporations with your purchases, yet condemn people buying recasts as immoral you're hurling inorganic projectiles in a heavily glazed domicile.

You are actually offtopic. In your opinion I am doing that. Cool.
Point still stands, recasting is illegal and immoral.

But buying them is only potentially one of those things.

Much like buying products from companies who employ child labour or use facilities that give their workers cancer.

 Azreal13 wrote:
But buying them is only potentially one of those things.

Much like buying products from companies who employ child labour or use facilities that give their workers cancer.

Sadly, it's really hard to buy electronics these days and not have at least some part of it worked on by someone who is essentially being abused and is little more than a modern day slave.

Now, in principle, I totally agree with you, and my personality is such that I absolutely will NOT buy a product from a company that I know is extraordinarily egregious in its labor practices. But most of the times, I buy things being pretty sure that I'd probably object to some part of the manufacturing process if I looked into it. Mostly, anything manufactured in southeast Asia :\

OTOH, if things are made in countries with high labor standards and minimum wages, you end up with higher prices. Hard to have it both ways, huh?

 Rippy wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
No, Rippy, jreilly is not saying that, you're actually doing exactly what you're accusing him of and trying to demonise his argument.

Large corporations are guilty of abusing cheap foreign labour, it is a matter of record. If you support those corporations with your purchases, yet condemn people buying recasts as immoral you're hurling inorganic projectiles in a heavily glazed domicile.

You are actually offtopic. In your opinion I am doing that. Cool.
Point still stands, recasting is illegal and immoral.

Regardless of that point this is the way "pirating" works with music, model recasts, movies, games, and anything else.

Step 1) The product needs to be made easily available to the public. The less available it is the more likely people will pirate it because it's easier to pirate it. People, in general, follow the path of least resistance.

Step 2) The product needs to be reasonably priced. If it's not, then people will seek out the more reasonable price and or free downloads etc etc...

That is mostly it. When CDs and games started having crazy DRM put on them to prevent burning and copying people still just downloaded the music because it was the path of least resistance for the most reasonable price.

When music became easily available and they mostly stopped having DRM all together (when it was around it made it more of a hindrance for the people who were buying it legitimately then it ever did to stop the pirates) and they priced it fairly the music industry basically boomed bigger then ever.

You can spend thousands of dollars developing methods to prevent pirating just to have it circumvented within hours of implementation or you can adapt your industry,

GW shut down online retailers making it harder to get access to the product. They switched to cheaper to produce materials and then increased the price of their products. GW has done everything in the exact worst way to maintain loyalty to the product and/or to make their product accessible to the general market increasing the likely hood that people would turn to other avenues such as EBay and recasters.

I have like 4k points of nids right now. I bought NONE of it from GW. Every purchase was ebay. GW got not a single dime from me. I would love to go to my local store and buy some kits but when it costs me 10-50% less to buy online EVEN after shipping. GW as a company suffers.

IF GW took a page from the music industry and made their products more easily available at a better more reasonable price point then there would still be pirates yes. But those few that bought recasts at that point were never going to pay GW anyway. The vast majority would buy from the most reasonable readily available avenue.

It's not a morals thing. This is basic human nature. It's how every market ever works.

 Talys wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
But buying them is only potentially one of those things.

Much like buying products from companies who employ child labour or use facilities that give their workers cancer.

Sadly, it's really hard to buy electronics these days and not have at least some part of it worked on by someone who is essentially being abused and is little more than a modern day slave.

Now, in principle, I totally agree with you, and my personality is such that I absolutely will NOT buy a product from a company that I know is extraordinarily egregious in its labor practices. But most of the times, I buy things being pretty sure that I'd probably object to some part of the manufacturing process if I looked into it. Mostly, anything manufactured in southeast Asia :\

OTOH, if things are made in countries with high labor standards and minimum wages, you end up with higher prices. Hard to have it both ways, huh?

So I guess it comes down to whether your own personal morals allow you to be comfortable with buying something that, as much as it may not feel like it, is totally non-essential to life, despite the fact the purchase will support a company that is, or may be, utilising unfair labour practices.

Just like buying recasts comes down to one's own morals and whether you're comfortable buying those instead of supporting a company who appear to be managed by the three stooges!

 Talys wrote:
@Az & Korinov - I actually meant the safety of giving your credit card information and your personal details to a vendor in China who you probably don't even know the identity of.

A popular recaster site shut down by GW last year has several posts on its FB page with customers who never got their stuff, and obviously things can be lost in the mail.

I don't know about that "popular recaster site". I do know about the ones I have done business with, as well as several who previously worked on another site. The first one deals via PayPal, the others site has a very safe and strict security, to the point the seller doesn't see a cent of the price you've paid until you rate the item you received.

As for the usual "buying chinese recasts is wrong, inmoral and theft!" coming from the dude with the iPad (made in China) and the red check shirt (made in Bangladesh), well, that's hipsterworld fer ye.

 Korinov wrote:

 Talys wrote:
@Az & Korinov - I actually meant the safety of giving your credit card information and your personal details to a vendor in China who you probably don't even know the identity of.

A popular recaster site shut down by GW last year has several posts on its FB page with customers who never got their stuff, and obviously things can be lost in the mail.

I don't know about that "popular recaster site". I do know about the one I have done business with, as well as several who previously worked via <DELETED> (and have recently been cast down from there due to GW's IP crusade after the Chapterhouse lawsuit fiasco). The first one deals via PayPal, the others dealt through <DELETED> which has a very safe and strict security, to the point the seller doesn't see a cent of the price you've paid until you rate the item you received.

As for the usual "buying chinese recasts is wrong, inmoral and theft!" coming from the dude with the iPad (made in China) and the red check shirt (made in Bangladesh), well, that's hipsterworld fer ye.

It rhymes with uh... Walmart, and at one time was a pretty significant home to 40k recasters Please delete the name of the place you can buy recasted products as I believe that's against the TOC.

I do not equate buying product made by cheap labor with buying product made by stealing intellectual property. I'm not advocating for either; I'm just saying they're different (international laws and treaties say so too). I don't think it's hypocrisy to have an iPad but rebuff knockoffs.

Frankly, I don't like giving my money to Chinese PayPal equivalents, because, well, I don't trust them as much as I trust PayPal. I don't think it's just me, either.

More importantly, Surface Pro 3 >> iPad.

It isn't just cheap labour, Samsung have been accused of using facilities that have had such poor health and safety protocols that their employees have developed cancer.

They deny it, of course, but I guess we'll likely never know the truth.

Again, I struggle to understand the view that products made using components that may have caused cancer in the people involved in their manufacture is somehow less morally dubious than the purchase of recasts which it is questionable do any notable financial damage to GW, let alone physical damage to anyone?

I mean, I've bought recasts and I'm typing this post on an iPad, but I'm not seeking any sort of moral high ground as others have.

 Rippy wrote:
I love Jrelly89's attempt at deamonizing everyone else on completely unrelated topics. Just because someone works in a factory in another country doesn't mean they are treated horrible, fella. Also, just because someone is getting taxes doesn't automatically mean it is tax fraud. Calm down mate, you are cheapening the "recasts is fine" argument.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All I am saying is, for better or worse, I have no idea who is making my beautiful samsung galaxy s5. I presume it isn't someone crying chained to a desk 22 hours a day, because these sort human rights issues aren't as ripe as they used to be. I trust Samsung until I directly hear EVIDENCE of their exploitation. I am not saying that copy right > human rights horrors, so please stop embarrassing yourself by putting words in my mouth I did not say. You have control to not steal and to not buy stuff from corporations in the chance that they might be exploiting their workers (recasters included ironically). It is your choice is what I am saying. You can immorally steal if you want too, just don't expect sympathy.

I'm not expecting sympathy, but I don't think buying recasts should equate to me stealing things and murdering people in the process. Also, I play daemons, so I will daemonize whatever I want. Sidenote: the only person "embarassing themselves" is you, because you obviously have yourself on such a high horse that you can do no wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Azreal13 wrote:
It isn't just cheap labour, Samsung have been accused of using facilities that have had such poor health and safety protocols that their employees have developed cancer.

They deny it, of course, but I guess we'll likely never know the truth.

Again, I struggle to understand the view that products made using components that may have caused cancer in the people involved in their manufacture is somehow less morally dubious than the purchase of recasts which it is questionable do any notable financial damage to GW, let alone physical damage to anyone?

I mean, I've bought recasts and I'm typing this post on an iPad, but I'm not seeking any sort of moral high ground as others have.

But, but the IP infringement and the feels!!

@Az - Hey, I'm not defending bad labour practices at all. I wish it didn't happen. I would pay more for products that weren't made on the backs on modern-day slaves.

I am biased when it comes to IP, though -- I write computer software for a living

The solution with an iPad is really simple. Sell it and get a Surface Pro 3, which is much better It's like uhhh... Wave Serpent vs. Rhino!

Samsung TV is much harder. I have Panasonic plasmas, but my future TVs are likely to be Samsung.

Korinov wrote:

 Talys wrote:
@Az & Korinov - I actually meant the safety of giving your credit card information and your personal details to a vendor in China who you probably don't even know the identity of.

A popular recaster site shut down by GW last year has several posts on its FB page with customers who never got their stuff, and obviously things can be lost in the mail.

I don't know about that "popular recaster site". I do know about the ones I have done business with, as well as several who previously worked on another site. The first one deals via PayPal, the others site has a very safe and strict security, to the point the seller doesn't see a cent of the price you've paid until you rate the item you received.

As for the usual "buying chinese recasts is wrong, inmoral and theft!" coming from the dude with the iPad (made in China) and the red check shirt (made in Bangladesh), well, that's hipsterworld fer ye.

That is cute, love the name calling. All credability of your arguments just lost. The point isn't that we all do immoral things everyday, the point is:
Recasting is illegal and immoral.

I get that constantly bringing up "u loserz have a moral high ground yet you hate pandas coz you don't donate to bamboo planters" is the only point you have, though everyone is failing to be on topic here:
Recasting is illegal and immoral.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
I love Jrelly89's attempt at deamonizing everyone else on completely unrelated topics. Just because someone works in a factory in another country doesn't mean they are treated horrible, fella. Also, just because someone is getting taxes doesn't automatically mean it is tax fraud. Calm down mate, you are cheapening the "recasts is fine" argument.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All I am saying is, for better or worse, I have no idea who is making my beautiful samsung galaxy s5. I presume it isn't someone crying chained to a desk 22 hours a day, because these sort human rights issues aren't as ripe as they used to be. I trust Samsung until I directly hear EVIDENCE of their exploitation. I am not saying that copy right > human rights horrors, so please stop embarrassing yourself by putting words in my mouth I did not say. You have control to not steal and to not buy stuff from corporations in the chance that they might be exploiting their workers (recasters included ironically). It is your choice is what I am saying. You can immorally steal if you want too, just don't expect sympathy.

I'm not expecting sympathy, but I don't think buying recasts should equate to me stealing things and murdering people in the process. Also, I play daemons, so I will daemonize whatever I want. Sidenote: the only person "embarassing themselves" is you, because you obviously have yourself on such a high horse that you can do no wrong.

Well it does equate to you stealing though, not murder, don't be dramatic. I never said I was on a high horse, and angellic in all my actions, you guys did that for me. I do many immoral things for sure, we all do. Though recasting is illegal and immoral. Therefore your actions in buying them are immoral. Happy little buddy? Or do you want to make the same offtopic argument which has nothing to do with this again?

How is it whenever anyone writes anything that could even be vaguely construed as some sort of 'name calling' they lose all their credibility, yet you post in the most patronising manner (little buddy, spelling things with 'z') and expect us to lend any credibility to what you say?

It appears hypocrisy is the definition of your participation in this thread.

 Rippy wrote:

Korinov wrote:

 Talys wrote:
@Az & Korinov - I actually meant the safety of giving your credit card information and your personal details to a vendor in China who you probably don't even know the identity of.

A popular recaster site shut down by GW last year has several posts on its FB page with customers who never got their stuff, and obviously things can be lost in the mail.

I don't know about that "popular recaster site". I do know about the ones I have done business with, as well as several who previously worked on another site. The first one deals via PayPal, the others site has a very safe and strict security, to the point the seller doesn't see a cent of the price you've paid until you rate the item you received.

As for the usual "buying chinese recasts is wrong, inmoral and theft!" coming from the dude with the iPad (made in China) and the red check shirt (made in Bangladesh), well, that's hipsterworld fer ye.

That is cute, love the name calling. All credability of your arguments just lost. The point isn't that we all do immoral things everyday, the point is:
Recasting is illegal and immoral.

I get that constantly bringing up "u loserz have a moral high ground yet you hate pandas coz you don't donate to bamboo planters" is the only point you have, though everyone is failing to be on topic here:
Recasting is illegal and immoral.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
I love Jrelly89's attempt at deamonizing everyone else on completely unrelated topics. Just because someone works in a factory in another country doesn't mean they are treated horrible, fella. Also, just because someone is getting taxes doesn't automatically mean it is tax fraud. Calm down mate, you are cheapening the "recasts is fine" argument.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All I am saying is, for better or worse, I have no idea who is making my beautiful samsung galaxy s5. I presume it isn't someone crying chained to a desk 22 hours a day, because these sort human rights issues aren't as ripe as they used to be. I trust Samsung until I directly hear EVIDENCE of their exploitation. I am not saying that copy right > human rights horrors, so please stop embarrassing yourself by putting words in my mouth I did not say. You have control to not steal and to not buy stuff from corporations in the chance that they might be exploiting their workers (recasters included ironically). It is your choice is what I am saying. You can immorally steal if you want too, just don't expect sympathy.

I'm not expecting sympathy, but I don't think buying recasts should equate to me stealing things and murdering people in the process. Also, I play daemons, so I will daemonize whatever I want. Sidenote: the only person "embarassing themselves" is you, because you obviously have yourself on such a high horse that you can do no wrong.

Well it does equate to you stealing though, not murder, don't be dramatic. I never said I was on a high horse, and angellic in all my actions, you guys did that for me. I do many immoral things for sure, we all do. Though recasting is illegal and immoral. Therefore your actions in buying them are immoral. Happy little buddy? Or do you want to make the same offtopic argument which has nothing to do with this again?

I'll admit to stealing as long you admit to supporting dubious practices and humans rights violations and that they are roughly the same amount of immorality. Then I'll be super happy, buddy.

 Rippy wrote:

Point still stands, recasting is illegal and immoral.

Well, except in countries where it is not, in fact, illegal and/or immoral, obviously...

 insaniak wrote:

 Rippy wrote:

Point still stands, recasting is illegal and immoral.

Well, except in countries where it is not, in fact, illegal and/or immoral, obviously...

Yeah true, though no one has made this point about their own respective country yet.

 jreilly89 wrote:

I'll admit to stealing as long you admit to supporting dubious practices and humans rights violations and that they are roughly the same amount of immorality. Then I'll be super happy, buddy.

By buying my Samsung Galaxy s5 I potentially support dubious practices and potential human rights violations that is arguably roughly the same amount of immortality, even though it is black and white stealing/immorral when knowingly buying recasts, and only potentially when buying something from an unknown source.

Signed, Rippy.

 Rippy wrote:

Korinov wrote:

 Talys wrote:
@Az & Korinov - I actually meant the safety of giving your credit card information and your personal details to a vendor in China who you probably don't even know the identity of.

A popular recaster site shut down by GW last year has several posts on its FB page with customers who never got their stuff, and obviously things can be lost in the mail.

I don't know about that "popular recaster site". I do know about the ones I have done business with, as well as several who previously worked on another site. The first one deals via PayPal, the others site has a very safe and strict security, to the point the seller doesn't see a cent of the price you've paid until you rate the item you received.

As for the usual "buying chinese recasts is wrong, inmoral and theft!" coming from the dude with the iPad (made in China) and the red check shirt (made in Bangladesh), well, that's hipsterworld fer ye.

That is cute, love the name calling. All credability of your arguments just lost. The point isn't that we all do immoral things everyday, the point is:
Recasting is illegal and immoral.

I get that constantly bringing up "u loserz have a moral high ground yet you hate pandas coz you don't donate to bamboo planters" is the only point you have, though everyone is failing to be on topic here:
Recasting is illegal and immoral.





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 jreilly89 wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
I love Jrelly89's attempt at deamonizing everyone else on completely unrelated topics. Just because someone works in a factory in another country doesn't mean they are treated horrible, fella. Also, just because someone is getting taxes doesn't automatically mean it is tax fraud. Calm down mate, you are cheapening the "recasts is fine" argument.


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All I am saying is, for better or worse, I have no idea who is making my beautiful samsung galaxy s5. I presume it isn't someone crying chained to a desk 22 hours a day, because these sort human rights issues aren't as ripe as they used to be. I trust Samsung until I directly hear EVIDENCE of their exploitation. I am not saying that copy right > human rights horrors, so please stop embarrassing yourself by putting words in my mouth I did not say. You have control to not steal and to not buy stuff from corporations in the chance that they might be exploiting their workers (recasters included ironically). It is your choice is what I am saying. You can immorally steal if you want too, just don't expect sympathy.

I'm not expecting sympathy, but I don't think buying recasts should equate to me stealing things and murdering people in the process. Also, I play daemons, so I will daemonize whatever I want. Sidenote: the only person "embarassing themselves" is you, because you obviously have yourself on such a high horse that you can do no wrong.

Well it does equate to you stealing though, not murder, don't be dramatic. I never said I was on a high horse, and angellic in all my actions, you guys did that for me. I do many immoral things for sure, we all do. Though recasting is illegal and immoral. Therefore your actions in buying them are immoral. Happy little buddy? Or do you want to make the same offtopic argument which has nothing to do with this again?

Your argument that buying recasts = stealing is like saying buying models off ebay = stealing. Either way GW doesn't see a penny from you. Making recasts, even making recasts of your own stuff is closer to stealing. The buyer has no place in that. If GW wants the market then GW needs to make their product more easily available and better priced. The only reason recasters have a market at all is because GW has made their product less and less available for ridiculous prices.

If I choose to buy a recast it will likely be because GW has made a crap ton of their models OOP for no good reason. The recasters have them though. For a fraction of the price. If I, the consumer, want that product, what is the most readily available option?

Lance wrote:

Your argument that buying recasts = stealing is like saying buying models off ebay = stealing.

That is simply wrong. Please know what you are talking about before posting. Reselling legal goods is fine. Purposefully taking part in copyright infringement is stealing. See that black and white line pal?


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Lance wrote:The buyer has no place in that. If GW wants the market then GW needs to make their product more easily available and better priced

So you don't like their pricing, so that gives you the right to steal it? No, it actually doesn't.


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Lance wrote:If I choose to buy a recast it will likely be because GW has made a crap ton of their models OOP for no good reason. The recasters have them though. For a fraction of the price. If I, the consumer, want that product, what is the most readily available option?

I already admitted this point is a hard one to counter. While still stealing, I can understand this point alot more if there is no other source for the models.

 Rippy wrote:

Lance wrote:

Your argument that buying recasts = stealing is like saying buying models off ebay = stealing.

That is simply wrong. Please know what you are talking about before posting. Reselling legal goods is fine. Purposefully taking part in copyright infringement is stealing. See that black and white line pal?


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Lance wrote:The buyer has no place in that. If GW wants the market then GW needs to make their product more easily available and better priced

So you don't like their pricing, so that gives you the right to steal it? No, it actually doesn't.

The difference is in the seller, not the consumer. It doesn't make YOU morally wrong for buying from the more reasonable merchant. It makes the merchant wrong for the theft. Again, ebay or recaster, GW sees not a single red cent from me. Me and GW have the exact same interaction regardless of where I buy it from. Which is none. Anything between the seller and GW is none of my damn business.