Options that should be there but arent...

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**vipoid**

pelicaniforce wrote:

The model for the Emperor's Benediction looks an awful lot like a bolt pistol. In fact, it is a bolt pistol. I'd really like it if I could just give a regular bolt pistol to multiple characters and he'd be able to do something interesting with it, like have the precision shot that the Emperor's Benediction gives him, also, I woudn't have to explain that no it's not a bolt pistol, it's a relic that looks identical to a bolt pistol has rules almost identical to a bolt pistol. It'd be nice if the stock pistol could be used with the stock stats bs, initiative, and attacks.

Agreed.

pelicaniforce wrote:
Speaking of leader characters, squad level weapons like plasma guns have a gunner and a commander. You're supposed to be too busy to line up a good shot with a plasma gun.

I don't follow your logic here.

Obviously sergeants can't be too busy to line up a plasma shot, else they wouldn't be able to purchase and fire combi-plasmaguns. Or regular bolters, for that matter.

**kodi**

vipoid wrote:
My models can use their pistols in combat, but can't fire them in combat. Apparently they just try to bludgeon people with them or something.

In that particular instance it's more about streamlining the gameplay. If every dude with a pistol played like cypher combat could become pretty tedious, and melee is already tightly balanced around the current way of things. If releasing a new editions without the need to be backwards compatible with old codices was a thing you could probably work something out with this idea.

vipoid wrote:

kodi wrote:

There should be more options for shooty rather than stompy HQ's. Biceps McBigFist might isn't a thematically suitable leader for every army out there. Especially for people with a stealth or covert ops theme.

Agreed.
Though, I'd suggest something else as well - there should be options for a leader leader. Leaders like the IG CCS - who exist to give orders and buff other units, rather than mixing it up in combat.

There's a fair amount of something similar really, though they usually lead by psychic powers or wargear that affects their unit. Tau "buffmanders" do this the real way like CCS's. I really like the orders concept because it feels like your army is actually communicating and fighting together rather than being guided by a great omniscient hand in the sky. It wouldn't fit every faction though, but some more of it would indeed be nice.

vipoid wrote:

There are things they could do though:

- Reduce the cost of Plasma Pistols (and similar weapons) or let them fire in combat.
- Add more gun options for HQs - not just the standard 'pistol or combi-something' affair, but 'proper' guns. I think relics like the Emperor's Benediction and Parasite's Kiss are a step in the right direction, but even they are just pistols.

Entirely agreed. Space marines get a super bolter or two with the supplement(s), but you pay so many points for combat-relevant stats it's kind of a waste to focus on the shooty stuff. Hats off to Masters of the Forge, since with a conversion beamer and a bike they can put out some serious and mobile hurt.

**vipoid**

kodi wrote:

In that particular instance it's more about streamlining the gameplay. If every dude with a pistol played like cypher combat could become pretty tedious, and melee is already tightly balanced around the current way of things. If releasing a new editions without the need to be backwards compatible with old codices was a thing you could probably work something out with this idea.

If they wanted streamlined gameplay, they wouldn't have added fliers, snapshots, tedious micromanagement wound-allocation rules or page upon page of random tables.

At this point, letting models fire their pistols in combat would be akin to spitting into the sea, in terms of complicating gameplat.

kodi wrote:

There's a fair amount of something similar really, though they usually lead by psychic powers or wargear that affects their unit. Tau "buffmanders" do this the real way like CCS's. I really like the orders concept because it feels like your army is actually communicating and fighting together rather than being guided by a great omniscient hand in the sky. It wouldn't fit every faction though, but some more of it would indeed be nice.

The thing is though, I feel this would be a good way for non-psyker characters, who aren't beat-sticks or amazing shooty units, to support their army.

kodi wrote:
Entirely agreed. Space marines get a super bolter or two with the supplement(s), but you pay so many points for combat-relevant stats it's kind of a waste to focus on the shooty stuff. Hats off to Masters of the Forge, since with a conversion beamer and a bike they can put out some serious and mobile hurt.

At the very least, I don't see why HQs shouldn't be able to purchase standard special weapons. Why can't a SM captain have a meltagun or plasmagun if he wants? Why is he stuck with only combi-versions of those? And, hell, some characters don't even get that much choice - instead being stuck with bolters (or worse).

**Forcemajeure**

It would be nice if Thousand Sons could have access to some low AP (1/2/3) special or heavy weapons. Maybe flamer and heavy bolter (fluffy!).

**AnomanderRake**

Forcemajeure wrote:
It would be nice if Thousand Sons could have access to some low AP (1/2/3) special or heavy weapons. Maybe flamer and heavy bolter (fluffy!).

But then they'd give the flamer the dumb Warpflame rule out of Daemons and nobody would take it.

On the subject of TSons Soul Blaze needs a rewrite, it's a waste of time and space right now. It needs to either be gone, do things during the phase you shoot it, be effective, or any combination of the three.

**Desubot**

Auspex

Most marine boxes comes with it and we know its an auspex from the codex but why cant anyone hurrdurr use it! ><

**vipoid**

AnomanderRake wrote:
On the subject of TSons Soul Blaze needs a rewrite, it's a waste of time and space right now. It needs to either be gone, do things during the phase you shoot it, be effective, or any combination of the three.

Agreed.

I think there should also be some sort of bonus for hitting the same unit with multiple Soul Blaze weapons.

**Ghaz**

Desubot wrote:
Auspex

Most marine boxes comes with it and we know its an auspex from the codex but why cant anyone hurrdurr use it! ><

I believe you're mistaking the sergeant's iPhone 40,000 for an auspex

**Makinit**

Why do Orks have bad Initiative? They want to fight. They want to get in it? Their entire existence revolves around getting in to the fight. So why are they always last to attack?

And please let us take grots in other units. The fluff says Nobs all have grots. Let me bring them as an adder to a nob. The average toughness rule would keep the silliness to a minimum. There is suppose to be like 10 to 1 grots to boyz but I don't see that on the field.

**ClockworkZion**

Makinit wrote:
Why do Orks have bad Initiative? They want to fight. They want to get in it? Their entire existence revolves around getting in to the fight. So why are they always last to attack?

And please let us take grots in other units. The fluff says Nobs all have grots. Let me bring them as an adder to a nob. The average toughness rule would keep the silliness to a minimum. There is suppose to be like 10 to 1 grots to boyz but I don't see that on the field.

Wanting to fight doesn't make you fast or skilled in a fight. I imagine Orks telegraph their attacks pretty hard too.

**Makinit**

Yes but a SM seeing a Nob swinging a big choopa at him isn't going to be anxious to run in. At least the Ork is going for it. Even if foolishly.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
You can't argue with Orks. We are right because we believe we are.

**vipoid**

Makinit wrote:
Yes but a SM seeing a Nob swinging a big choopa at him isn't going to be anxious to run in.

Yes he is.

Tactics are for Reasonable Marines.

**Wazdakka!**

Why can't a Tankbusta Nob take a Killsaw? That is a weapon used especially against vehicles, so why can't the Nob of a unit that is specialized against vehicles take it? Would look really cool too.

**Niiru**

vipoid wrote:

Tactics are for Reasonable Marines.

They're the ones all in blue, right?

**vipoid**

Niiru wrote:
vipoid wrote:

Tactics are for Reasonable Marines.

They're the ones all in blue, right?

Nope, they're the ones who actually use camouflage - rather than dressing like people from the Napoleonic War.

**Bobthehero**

Makinit wrote:

You can't argue with Orks. We are right because we believe we are.

Uh, sure, if that helps you sleep at night.

**AnomanderRake**

vipoid wrote:
Niiru wrote:
vipoid wrote:

Tactics are for Reasonable Marines.

They're the ones all in blue, right?

Nope, they're the ones who actually use camouflage - rather than dressing like people from the Napoleonic War.

GW calls them Raptors and has them in solid dull army green.

**Ghaz**

You mean these guys?

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Raptors_(Chapter)#Canon_Conflicts

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Raptors#Chapter_Appearance

**AnomanderRake**

"Stop blindly obeying the words of the book and look at the situation. You have completed your training, but you must now learn to apply it. Regurgitation is not the answer, simple analysis and thought must be used to solve the problem!"
--Captain Karib, Raptors 5th Company