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It is and it isn't!

I mean, would they have raised as much without offering up that 'special something' that they now cannot deliver?

 Alpharius wrote:
It is and it isn't!

I mean, would they have raised as much without offering up that 'special something' that they now cannot deliver?

When a friend borrows $100, and says he can give you $80 after months of prodding, how many people take that offer just to get "something" back?

The real question is: who then lends that person more money?

 Polonius wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
It is and it isn't!

I mean, would they have raised as much without offering up that 'special something' that they now cannot deliver?

When a friend borrows $100, and says he can give you $80 after months of prodding, how many people take that offer just to get "something" back?

The real question is: who then lends that person more money?

I just want a dropship, so if some kind USA resident wouldn't mind me piggybacking on their pledge, shoot me a PM - thanks!

Mlaw, as someone who has experienced titan forges customer service first hand and still have to chase them even after the BoW article, I'd appreciate it if you could stop insisting there is no problem with titan forge, and come clean if you have more of a stake in this project than just a backer. There are ongoing problems with titan forge, you are not helping anyone.

Joyboozer - Did you get a reply / have they shipped your items yet?

@Joyboozer - look at my last post..

Ah, I haven't had my coffee yet and didn't see that in Skullking's post. I asked them what is up with that.. because I agree that's a lot of money to just not get an answer on. Hopefully he contacts them again and gets it sorted out.

At the time of me saying I was not on the TF team, my role with them was loose concept design. Not even under a contract or anything. That is still the case with the exception that we have mutually agreed that they can use my designs freely and I can freely claim to have helped on the designs of the project. I don't gain money from sales or anything but I've been talking quite a lot with Romek and I don't get a sense that he's trying to screw anyone over. Instead I get a strong vibe that they are slammed with customer service, casting, design, and running a kickstarter at the same time. Part of the reason for them to run this KS is so they can bring in another person for future developments... which I think is a smart move.

 RiTides wrote:
Joyboozer - Did you get a reply / have they shipped your items yet?

In the end I gave up on getting my minis and asked for a refund instead, they agreed, and I still had to chase them multiple times to receive just recently. Given my experiences their BoW article was laughable.
Mlaw, you appear to have not had your coffee multiple times in this thread. I'm deleting the rest of my reply and have no intention of so much as reading another titan forge thread.

 MLaw wrote:
Instead I get a strong vibe that they are slammed with customer service, casting, design, and running a kickstarter at the same time. Part of the reason for them to run this KS is so they can bring in another person for future developments... which I think is a smart move.

It sounds to me like an even smarter move would be to resolve their existing issues completely before adding double or more to their plate in the meantime. YMMV.

So, MLaw, this company got you to do design work for them for free? They essentially did not pay you for your work? That doesn't seem a bit shady?

I think it's more like he reached out to them volunteering some drawings / ideas in case they found them useful, and maybe they'll more officially collaborate in the future. Let's not make more of things than there are, I think there's enough drama with substance already!

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
So, MLaw, this company got you to do design work for them for free? They essentially did not pay you for your work? That doesn't seem a bit shady?

I will not be receiving royalties or commissions or anything like that. How is that the same thing as not receiving compensation for designing for them?

 MLaw wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
So, MLaw, this company got you to do design work for them for free? They essentially did not pay you for your work? That doesn't seem a bit shady?

I will not be receiving royalties or commissions or anything like that. How is that the same thing as not receiving compensation for designing for them?

You didn't mention compensation, which made it sound like there was none. Not that it matters all that much. Just trying to get a bead on where Titan Forge sits on the scale of doom.

RiTides - I imagine you're probably facepalming.. I'm sorry.. this is the last I'll say on it..

I did not mention compensation for designs because it is not anyone in this thread's business. What I think we could all agree would be everyone's business, is if I was receiving additional money or product to serve as a promotional person or some kind of sales.

Originally, I did just reach out and offer up some sketches. It grew from there, but only to help with concepts. It's that simple. For me as an artist.. this is huge. I've done a very little bit of design work for small companies in the past and want to break into the industry on a larger scale. Being able to attach my name to a kit like that dropship could help me tremendously as far as my career goes.

 Polonius wrote:

 MLaw wrote:
This conversation has already been had over and over.
They outlined what the problems were in their BoW interview.
If you're inclined not to believe that, then that's your opinion.

However, he specifically mentioned that problems were not fixed. I'm curious as to which problems were not fixed, specifically. Obviously the delivery schedule was one of them but non-delivery is not something I'm hearing specific examples of.

I wouldn't say that this concersation has been had over and over. I think there were a few oblique references to the actual article, but I've been following the thread and I didn't remember it, so forgive me if I don't think the topic was beaten to death.

Anyway, here's the question from BOW and the resonse from Titan Forge:

Spoiler:

BoW: Some of your previous campaigns have had some significant issues with them, namely some delays for the Metal Beards and Armymals campaigns. Why have there been delays here?

2014 was a tough period for us. Between the Metal Beards and Armymals campaigns we had some crew changes. Some things got overlooked and some were postponed, although they shouldn’t have been. We should’ve dealt with existing issues before moving forward but we didn’t, and the longer we waited the more difficult they became to fix, as nobody knew who was responsible for what. Many of the delays were a case of force majeure though, and left us helpless.

The delay in Metal Beards and the fact that some of the orders weren’t completed up to now had four causes. Firstly, it was the first project done completely in 3D and at the time we didn’t realise the amount of work needed to prepare such a number of models for printing was so big. Secondly, the amount of parts was overkill. A unit of 12 dwarves consisted of 108 parts, most of them small and easily broken and the amount of rejects was much more than we anticipated. The third cause was independent of us. A company that was supposed to print a big amount of the models for us wasn’t able to supply us with prints of adequate quality – we ended up having to look for another place to print them at. The last cause was changing the person responsible for shipment, which led to a mess up with the paperwork and in turn some orders got overlooked.

Armymals had two problems. The first one – no one person responsible for contacting the backers. This caused a lot of questions to stay unanswered for a long time, the tensions among backers rose and we completely understand this. Even though we learned our lesson during the Metal Beards campaign and the production process was completely airtight, something else failed in the Armymals campaign – shipping. Here the fault lies with our lack of experience and too much trust. When we were planning the Kickstarter we asked numerous shipping companies to calculate the cost of worldwide shipping. A German company proposed the best terms – not only were they the cheapest, they would also pack the sets for backers on their own. Thanks to that we wouldn’t have had to wait for all the orders from the pledge manager and we would just send the games and add-ons to Germany.

Unfortunately we were misinformed by that company and when the games and shipping addresses reached them we were presented with an invoice that showed completely different prices, up to 3 times larger than agreed upon. We were informed that there has been an error in the calculations and all they could offer was a 10% discount. We tried to reach an agreement, but we only lost out on time and were forced to use other, slower shipping methods. The additional costs and delays caused by this were massive.

To extract the key, and most worrying part: "Between the Metal Beards and Armymals campaigns we had some crew changes. Some things got overlooked and some were postponed, although they shouldn’t have been. We should’ve dealt with existing issues before moving forward but we didn’t, and the longer we waited the more difficult they became to fix, as nobody knew who was responsible for what. Many of the delays were a case of force majeure though, and left us helpless." Note the use of passive voice: "things got overlooked and some where postpone." It's a classic "mistakes were made." Who overlooked them? Who postponed them? The same people running this campaign?

Otherwise, this basically boils down to "we didn't know what we were doing. We swear we have it together this time."

So, I suppose it does boil down to me not believing that they've really fixed anything. They've run two kickstarters, and both had incredible delays. Further, they had terrible communication, which is entirely in their own means to fix.

This exactly. When their response to huge problems is "yeah, we know there were huge problems" but not addressing those as priority one -- e.g., being really on point with consumer communication -- is useless. They can admit they've got a drinking problem all they like, but the proof is when they don't go out to the bar anymore.

The sniper is in along with the squad leader upgrades.







EDIT: The Squad Leader parts are extra bits added in on top of the kits.. you still get the regular bits so you can mix and match as you want.

Thanks for the advice and direction on this everyone.

I have finally received word from someone on the titan forge facebook page (via PM), giving me that same contact email address.

support@titan-forge.com

I actually emailed this same address when this current kickstarter first started, but never got a response then (I had emailed it awhile before as well, with no response also). So, fingers crossed that I can get in touch with them, and possibly get a little more info to help out anyone else with similar problems.

I feel that I wouldn't be as irked by the whole thing if they had contacted everyone and explained the issues they were having. Since Kickstarters are different than how a company normally functions, with R&D and pricing all done for the most part before the customers even know about the product, it's surprising that these things don't come up more regularly.

I recall an issue with the first Deep Wars KS, when some were promised a choice of certain figures for free. When all of the figures were all sculpted, half of the figures were too large to be given away for free without anti-matter losing money on them. In the end they admitted this, and still gave everyone the other half of the figures free. Whereas I would have rather had the first two figures, I was happy to get something (and they were freebie stretch goals, so I couldn't get all that bummed about it). I appreciated Anti-matter's honesty (I believe it was their first KS), and their backup plan for it.

Match this with KS like Kingdom Death, which is HORRIBLY late, but, they explain everything to the backers as they go.

Similarly, Torn Armor has made a HUGE mistake with setting up their miniatures. They've apologized, and been as open as possible about how their trying to fix the situation. Will it ever happen? No idea, but they are at least keeping everyone in the loop.

Then there's the Ice age Mammals KS...


This current Titan Forge KS has some really phenomenal figures in it, and I can tell just by looking at the items offered that they have learned how to make models with less pieces than the metal beards figures. And hopefully, the whole thing is much more cost effective for them. The decay and lust demons are particularly awesome to me, and I very much hope that someday this whole thing can be resolved, and I can acquire those figures.

@Hulksmash - thanks for the info, as mentioned, I've contacted them, and hopefully can resolve the issue.

@Mlaw - I hadn't said that I'd gotten the figures, I believe I mentioned earlier that after the metal Beards KS, I had ordered some models from the TF site. All of which came right away, all of which are amazing. I'm not sure what you may have assisted with design wise with TF, but everything is super great looking, so great work to both of you!

@Polonius - thanks for posting the BoW snippet, I hadn't seen that yet.

 skullking wrote:
Thanks for the advice and direction on this everyone.


@Mlaw - I hadn't said that I'd gotten the figures, I believe I mentioned earlier that after the metal Beards KS, I had ordered some models from the TF site. All of which came right away, all of which are amazing. I'm not sure what you may have assisted with design wise with TF, but everything is super great looking, so great work to both of you!

@Polonius - thanks for posting the BoW snippet, I hadn't seen that yet.

I really hope they help you.. and I have to agree.. I really hate KS that don't communicate what's going on.. I think I mentioned it here earlier.. I am in on the Burn-In MDF terrain one that is way overdue.. and that guy had tons of problems and didn't tell anyone.. same with the Ranger Salamander one.. ugh..

On the design.. the dropship is so far the first and only thing I've really helped on with Titan-Forge. For the most part the feedback on the dropship has been really positive, which is exciting.

The BoW interview is an interesting read.. if you haven't seen it you should check it out. Obvoiusly people suspect that elements of the story are just a smokescreen or them covering their asses.. which they might be.. I don't know.. likely nobody here knows for sure.. we can only speculate.
The interview
http://www.beastsofwar.com/titan-forge/qa-time-titanforge-xterra-armymals-metal-beards/

Hey everyone. I hate a quick question, and with time ticking on this KS I was hoping I could get it answered, without digging through this whole thread.

Will there be a pledge-manager, and will I be allowed to raise the pledge-tier during such?

Obviously it seems like this is a somewhat contentious Kickstarter, and their points-conversion non-sense and its eventual changed have confused me immensely as to how much to pledge.

As such, I was thinking of going in for $1.00 and figuring it out later.

Thanks!

There is a Pledge Manager coming. You can add things using points or $$ amounts.. whichever you prefer. They work out about the same. You will be able to add more during the PM.

I'm not sure if a $1 pledge works, though - that usually only works if they create a pledge level for it, which then gives them the opportunity to send you a survey and get your email address. When I've pledged $1 where there is no pledge level, you will often get no contact at all because you are selecting "no reward".

I considered doing the same here, and likely would if they had a pledge level for it, but I can't imagine them adding it now!

 MLaw wrote:



The interview
http://www.beastsofwar.com/titan-forge/qa-time-titanforge-xterra-armymals-metal-beards/

"Many of the delays were a case of force majeure though, and left us helpless."

force majeure...
force
majeure

*insane giggle*

force majeure

*twitch*

Just heard back

TitanforgeGames 9 minutes ago

@Michael, Yes there is no problem for people who don`t have enough founds at this time to pledge 1$ and add more money in pledge manager, after our kickstarter campaign ends.

Excellent. This will give me time to save up, see how production is shaking out, and decide if my 2015 army will end up being these as Chaos Demons, or see if Ad-Mech becomes a real thing. :-p

Well, awesome, thanks for checking on that MLaw! I've put in a dollar, and a comment asking if they'll consider having the tank turrets be add-ons. I'd love to get a Claymore tank, but magnetize on a Sabre turret. I think that combination would be the best fit for a "counts-as" Land Raider, right?

Hope they consider it, I could see turret add-ons being very popular!!

Well they got the discount in and it looks like we might get the "slaanesh" daemons so I went back in for $32 right now. I expect to pick up an entire new daemon army out of this now but a lot depends on what they finally hit and the communication and actual casts in the next few months.

Same here... I flip-flopped about making a demon army for years, but they're generally so costly, as you're sinking points into your lists, but also buying units a summoning options, etc...

The built-in discount here, and some very cool looking models for common units will probably end up pushing me over the edge, though.

Also, i'm hopeful for NC-17 rated Daemonettes, as I have found it preposterous that Daemons of Lust have been self-censored by GW. On principle alone I would only buy "counts-as" version either way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Question is, though MLaw, will the pledge-manager allow us to upgrade pledge tiers as well? IE, can we still snag a Tier 4 discount for bulk-buy at that point, or are we stuck with the $1.00 = 20pts, rate?

The teaser for the stretch goal after the lust minions has me scratching my head. If it ends up being something the size of one of the demon lords but for terrans I might lose it. I suspect it'll be closer to a Peacekeeper or Strider from Mantic.

I like the concept art on the lust minions. They aren't what I expected but fit in great.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
NewTruth, I ...have no clue.. I will ask because I've assumed a few things and been wrong (the bonus $ thing for example). I'll copy/paste your question over there unless you want to (not sure if you're in yet or not)

Please do ask! It sounds like they'd be more inclined to answer you. Thanks. :-)

Yes, PM will let you upgrade tiers as well!

You rock. Thanks man. In for a $1.00, which I have a funny feeling will turn into $500, unless Ad-Mech blow me away... or even exist. :-p