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Yeah, it certainly sounds interesting. I'm not 100% sure I want to play/model/paint in the fallout-like universe but it's possible, and a 5-20 man skirmish game is about the right size.

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 GrimDork wrote:
Huh cool I'll keep an eye here so I'll know when the kickstarter is out. Looks interesting.

Simply put, it is one of the best skirmish games I've played in my entire 23 years of tabletop gaming.

It is basically tabletop Fallout. If you like that IP, like skirmish games or like anything post-apocalyptic, it is well worth playing.

Agreed. It has the right about of crunch to feel detailed, and like your crew meaningfully evolves, but is light enough to get in multiple games in an evening. Really good. I usually like my skirmish games even heavier on the RPG stuff, but I know for most folks this will be in a sweet-spot.

My only complaint... the "catch up" mechanics don't feel like they do quiet enough to shore up pts discrepancies between players. Like Mordheim I definitely feel like a player can run away with a campaign, and the buy-able pts-gap perks could stand to be significantly buffed.


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 GrimDork wrote:
Yeah, it certainly sounds interesting. I'm not 100% sure I want to play/model/paint in the fallout-like universe but it's possible, and a 5-20 man skirmish game is about the right size.

Luckily it isn't expressly Fallout per-se, meaning any box of zombie survivors, or military models, (or moderns in general) can look the part. Its a pretty versatile bit of fluff, and the core of the rules are so strong that they would work superimposed on almost any theme.

Campaigns are pretty hard to balance like that. But then again... isn't somebody *supposed* to win in the end? They get to survive, or dominate their little hive city area, or city block, or what have you? Of course it's not fun playing make-it-take-it basketball for long...

 GrimDork wrote:
Campaigns are pretty hard to balance like that. But then again... isn't somebody *supposed* to win in the end? They get to survive, or dominate their little hive city area, or city block, or what have you? Of course it's not fun playing make-it-take-it basketball for long...

Oh, I totally agree, but when it can happen after TWO games, it can be very frustrating. :-p

As to the balance of campaigns... I don't usually care too much because I LOVE narrative stuff, which is why I generally, as I said, love massive amounts of random encounters, base-building, tables to roll on, etc. If my friends and I have a memorable time full of interesting choices, I am happy.

TNT just happens to ere a touch more on the Frost-grave side of things where you do still need it to feel balanced just a touch longer.

But these are like, quibbling critiques. I love the game and wouldn't do much to change it at all. Even unchanged I plan to throw money at this KS.

Hopefully physical book pledges also get corresponding amounts of .pdfs though. I know our group is about 50/50 for preferring one medium versus the other.

Looking forward to a physical copy to go with my digital version, will be interesting to see how the cost of the book + shipping will stack up for ROW backers.

I've heard a lot about this game. The gameplay (outside the seemingly flawed campaign system) sounds intriguing.. Is the tone tongue in cheek or can it go either way?

 MLaw wrote:
I've heard a lot about this game. The gameplay (outside the seemingly flawed campaign system) sounds intriguing.. Is the tone tongue in cheek or can it go either way?

The tone can definitely be as dark or camp as you like. On the one hand, its conducive to a Fallout style pulpy aesthetic, but there is cannibalism, some brutal mutations, and a pretty ruined world. I think the fluff you and your group decide on will decide this one for you.

As for the flawed campaign system... let me also say it isn't irredeamably flawed... it just has the capacity to break easily. The first time my wife and I played a campaign, a combination of good rolls for me, terrible rolls for her, and a little randomness in the events resulted in a wide enough gulf that she not only never recovered, but the second game just widened said gulf through no fault of hers.

It was an edge case, for sure, but a little buffing of the things a player down on points can buy would actually go a long way to helping. :-)

Oh, and I can't restate this enough... the game is AMAZING, so I am just nit-picking. :-p

Thanks NewTruth. That's good food for thought
I have tons more questions about what you can and can't do but I don't want to derail..

Since everyone is being so helpful about this today.. can I beg some specifics? I'm trying to read/watch some battle reports but my kiddos have other plans. I see the force lists and it seems like they take groups but things still operate one model at a time? But you don't just take one guy? Do you buy them in squads?

I'm curious to check out the PDF, is the kickstarted book just a print run or is it getting updated/changed? I kind of prefer PDF most days anyway and getting something now instead of kickstarting a hardback would be ideal.

You know, I really should have shown TNT more love. We've been a little preoccupied lately, but I'll definitely back this project.

Campaign systems are notoriously difficult to balance when you are talking about a PVP game. RPGs can take a little imbalance because you are usually playing co-op. Players also tend to have a higher rules tolerance in an RPG.

GW's specialist games, for the mountain of love I have for them, are notoriously bad though when it comes to campaigns. The simplest solution is often to have a GM rebalance the campaign on the fly.

Have you tried doing that with TNT? Maybe the TNT guys can whip up a little article about that type of play style.

In regards to the campaign system: It's good that you can get a noticible difference in power. It's something the campaign-ness of the game can adjust for. Example would be multi-player games ganging up a bit on the stronger gang.

It beats 'virtually static, lack of advancement' campaigns. I cannot stand Frostgrave for that reason, despite trying it and giving it a real shot: Because it's not a mordheim/necromunda like experience (where some gangs or characters can get quite good).

If anyone's stuck for Brotherhood of Steel figures, the Unity Council Marines from Anvil Industry make great BOS Knights in combat armour.




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As for campaign balance...the game has environmental threats like rad zombies/ghouls, mutants and beasts right? Maybe you could give control to the weaker player, or let him trigger and deploy those environmental threats.

 GrimDork wrote:
Since everyone is being so helpful about this today.. can I beg some specifics? I'm trying to read/watch some battle reports but my kiddos have other plans. I see the force lists and it seems like they take groups but things still operate one model at a time? But you don't just take one guy? Do you buy them in squads?

I'm curious to check out the PDF, is the kickstarted book just a print run or is it getting updated/changed? I kind of prefer PDF most days anyway and getting something now instead of kickstarting a hardback would be ideal.

All models are individual. You will end up with probably around 5-10 minis in your gang. There are restrictions on the different types and amount of equipment you can take. There are several factions, all somewhat based around Fallout, so you get equivelents to Brotherhood, Raiders, Tribals, Caravanners, Mutants, etc.

The KS is for the print book. Not sure if it will differ from the .pdf or not.

I'm probably being paranoid, but I hope people aren't reading my campaign critiques without the follow-up comments I tried to make as well. :-p I would hate for people to think this game isn't awesome, which it absolutely is.

And again, I am all for campaigns seeing discrepancies in power emerge. Two of the systems I have designed intentionally allow for it in my own work, so I am a fan. It just felt like the upper extremes of how quickly it could happen felt a little "sharp" in TNT.

Nothing that couldn't be smoothed without tiny tweaks, but even as-is, this game is incredible and I cannot recommend it enough. Everyone on DakkaDakka needs to get a copy of these rules come March 9th, or else they're genuinely missing out.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I'm probably being paranoid, but I hope people aren't reading my campaign critiques without the follow-up comments I tried to make as well. :-p I would hate for people to think this game isn't awesome, which it absolutely is.

And again, I am all for campaigns seeing discrepancies in power emerge. Two of the systems I have designed intentionally allow for it in my own work, so I am a fan. It just felt like the upper extremes of how quickly it could happen felt a little "sharp" in TNT.

Nothing that couldn't be smoothed without tiny tweaks, but even as-is, this game is incredible and I cannot recommend it enough. Everyone on DakkaDakka needs to get a copy of these rules come March 9th, or else they're genuinely missing out.

I get what you are saying. Mordheim, Necromunda, Blood Bowl, Gorkamorka, once you get behind it can be almost pointless to keep playing. It can become decidedly unfun to get teeth-kicked every game and KEEP falling further behind because of it.

Border Town Burning, a Mordheim campaign system, has a nifty feature to help with that, by the way.

Anyhow, it is really challenging to develop a skirmish game campaign system that doesn't have this type of issue. I find that the best thing to do in these situations is nominate a GM who can make calls like giving one player control over the environment.

Most campaign-based games have one problem or the other in the long run, either due to some (un)lucky rolls, the way a skirmish went, or because of those players. You know the ones, who either min-max, or ask a thousand credit ransom for that one ganger he captured from you previous game, knowing its an absurd amount. Putting a GM or the like in is indeed one of the best ways to remedy this. It doesn't even have to be someone who takes it on full-time for the duration of a campaign, but just someone impartial who keeps an eye on things.

But other than that, nothing but good things to say about TNT. The rules take some getting used to in the beginning, the shooting mechanics in particular have an interesting twist to them, which can lead to hilarious bouts of ineffective shooting or glorious overkill, but it plays like a charm once you get it all down pat and yes, it can easily be used for Fallout with a minimum amount of tinkering with the factions and equipment.

GMG did a series of games last year, really nice battle reports and a great intro to their channel.



I'm really excited for this kickstarter. I need more details!!!
Are you going to do raiders or some other faction for the KS? The peacekeepers look really nice.

@Grimdork
It doesn't have to be fallout themed. I could see a range of post apoc films and games fitting the ruleset well enough. Mad Max, A boy and his dog, Escape from Frogtown, Escape from LA/NY, Wasteland C&C: Tiberian Sun etc.

Yeah, I'm about halfway through the second one. Seems like they do a bunch of teeny edits to trim the fast and keep them closing. Good audio quality too, nicely painted everything.

The only thing I really need to know about the KS is if the rules are gonna be changed at all or if it's primarily a print run of the existing PDF. Cause I kinda want to buy the PDF soon but not if a new edition is right around the corner.

My Raider gang and some Depend-o-Bot stand ins, which will probably be used for another warband I'm gonna try and get together to mimic the remnants of the US military.





Few more pics here.

Really excited to see a hardcover copy of the rules. I'll be in on this KS for sure.

~iPaint

 GrimDork wrote:
Yeah, I'm about halfway through the second one. Seems like they do a bunch of teeny edits to trim the fast and keep them closing. Good audio quality too, nicely painted everything.

The only thing I really need to know about the KS is if the rules are gonna be changed at all or if it's primarily a print run of the existing PDF. Cause I kinda want to buy the PDF soon but not if a new edition is right around the corner.

The book will be identical to the PDF, though the picture quality will be better since file size is long longer an issue. Of course some editing will fix typos and things of the sort, but nothing earth shattering. A new edition of the rules is a long, long way off. I am more interested in getting new stuff out there and expanding game play options. I still need to do robot warbands, animal hybrids, and other zaniness!

Also, thanks for the compliments guys. I appreciate the encouragement.

Ahh very cool. Doesn't mean I'm not interested in the kickstarter, but I may not be able to wait for the rules, there looks to be a lot of conversion fodder.

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 GrimDork wrote:
Huh cool I'll keep an eye here so I'll know when the kickstarter is out. Looks interesting.

Simply put, it is one of the best skirmish games I've played in my entire 23 years of tabletop gaming.

It is basically tabletop Fallout. If you like that IP, like skirmish games or like anything post-apocalyptic, it is well worth playing.

That's high praise indeed! And definitely enough to make me start watching this with interest.

A don't suppose you'd mind putting a very brief synopsis about what makes the rules stand out Nostromodamus?

As part of the Kickstarter, we are releasing a demo set of rules that includes practically everything you need to try out the rules. An overview of the mechanics, a new scenario, two force lists, and even paper minis. I have attached the demo to this post and have linked the Facebook group which is also a great way to learn about the fun and creativity inspired by the game.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/905688146148353

I am also more than willing to answer any other inquiries you may have.

 Pacific wrote:
A don't suppose you'd mind putting a very brief synopsis about what makes the rules stand out Nostromodamus?

Sure, I'll highlight a few of my favorite things.

First, the activation system. Every model has a Mettle value which is used for various tests, including activation. You roll a Mettle test and, if successful, you get to make 2 actions with a model and then choose another model to try to activate. You repeat this until you fail a Mettle test. If you fail, you still get to activate that model, but can only take 1 action, then play passes to your opponent. This makes order of activation a very interesting decision and makes spreading Mettle-buffing models among your gang very important.

Secondly, the shooting. Damage is not resolved until the point at which play passes to your opponent. So if you get a string of activations, you won't know if that guy you're pouring bullets into is dead until you fail a Mettle roll, the smoke clears and you can assess the damage. This forces some interesting choices as far as how much you really want to elimate a model at the expense of other targets, or if you want to "spread the love" and have a lower chance of actually taking anyone out.

Thirdly, the gang building rules are amazing. Very characterful factions that fit Fallout perfectly but are generic enough that you can imagine any post-apoc world having them. You will have a leader, a few of his closest henchmen, some specialists and some fodder. Lots of variety. You choose their skills rather than rolling on tables, so you can really tailor members to a specific role. You can do this to such an extent that a guy might not even be very useful in battle, but buffs the hell out of your post-game activities. It's like you're basically giving the accountant a gun

Speaking of guns, they are many and varied. From primitive to futuristic, pretty much anything from Fallout and beyond is represented. This goes for armor too, and there are lots of pre-war artifacts to use. Robots feature and are useable by some factions in battle.

Finally, the scenarios. Lots of variety here, but what makes each game truly unique is the weather effects and wandering creatures rules. Fighting in a rad storm with rad-zombies crawling from the ruins is a scary prospect!

Anyway I've rambled enough. There's so much I haven't covered though. It's really worth checking out!

Just want to co-sign on the above.

At this point, all I want from the game (other than my above mentioned campaign tweaks), would be MORE.

We have played so often that I just feel ready for new scenarios, new after-action event options (maybe a second 54 card decks worth), gear, mutations, etc...

I would love to hear about a big expansion coming, and I wish the game got a volume of supplements on par with Frostgrave. I'd happily buy another book every six months.

@deathwing thanks for the demo rules
Having paper models for the gangs is a nice touch.

I`ve found the campaign imbalance much less of an issue than with for example necromunda because you can always get free guys to make up the cost imbalance. While these guys can`t get experience and dissapear after the game, they can prop up the remnants of a battered gang and allow them to win a game or two to even things out.

The rules are great fun, gang building is very well done, covering a lot of post apoc gang types, offering lots of options without going so overboard that balance and overview becomes impossible.

My main "complaint" is that the missions are a bit demanding when starting out, I would love more generic missions not demanding so much extra miniatures/special terrain to play. The game would benefit from more "warmachine steamroller" style missions, destroy objectives, capture zones and flags for points.

 Illumini wrote:
I`ve found the campaign imbalance much less of an issue than with for example necromunda because you can always get free guys to make up the cost imbalance. While these guys can`t get experience and dissapear after the game, they can prop up the remnants of a battered gang and allow them to win a game or two to even things out.

The rules are great fun, gang building is very well done, covering a lot of post apoc gang types, offering lots of options without going so overboard that balance and overview becomes impossible.

My main "complaint" is that the missions are a bit demanding when starting out, I would love more generic missions not demanding so much extra miniatures/special terrain to play. The game would benefit from more "warmachine steamroller" style missions, destroy objectives, capture zones and flags for points.

I hear you. The next book, which will not be too long out after the Kickstarter, and will have a new Wasteland Deck and five more scenarios. I think you are right that some more "basic" style scenarios would be a nice change of pace and I will give some thought to it.

Ooooh, can the new Wasteland deck be used in addition to the old one? That was actually one of my wishes.

Can we get some hints about this new book? Is it planned to be printed alongside the core rules if the KS does really well, or is it a pure digital release?

Any hints on a date, or other contents?!

I would love people to share their warbands for TNT if they have made it.