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Also how is 40k a tactical game when its l down to who can table who first to win

zilka86 wrote:
Also how is 40k a tactical game when its l down to who can table who first to win

...Because that's not the victory condition? The victory condition is getting more points. If someone's getting tabled every game your meta seems skewed towards glass cannons and needs to be futzed with.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

zilka86 wrote:
Also how is 40k a tactical game when its l down to who can table who first to win

...Because that's not the victory condition? The victory condition is getting more points. If someone's getting tabled every game your meta seems skewed towards glass cannons and needs to be futzed with.

Lists that aren't glass cannons can get tabled as well. But probably not every game.

zilka86 wrote:Also how is 40k a tactical game when its l down to who can table who first to win

You still need to get weapons into range and line of sight, and movement can help get around cover saves. And, of course, which weapons you shoot when, and at which targets matters a great deal.

Plus, if you're not running a gunline, then there's a lot more to the game. Much more movement, unit synergy on the table, field position, close combat, etc. etc.

If you're playing games with little terrain where both people play a gunline, then yeah, there isn't a whole lot of depth to the game. Thankfully, you don't have to play it this way. When you don't, there are more tactics involved.

Yup with LOS blocking terrain, running eternal war or maelstrom missions rather than just sitting and shooting across the table at each other you can have a layer of strategy in the game. I'm not saying 40K suddenly becomes chess but unit positioning, buffs and debuffs, reserves and DS blocking can all add tactical aspects into the game that go beyond making pew pew noises from two seperated gunlines.

A decent example is that I know I am fethed at the 1000 point league games if my opponent sufficiently spaces themselves to make halo dropping 3 crisis teams around them tactically unwise, fortunately most of my opponents typically just rush toward the riptide in the hopes of killing "the most dangerous" part of my army, leaving themselves exposed to a T2 deepstrike that guts them.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
I'm honestly getting worried about the crowd at Zilka's FLGS right now.

Given the practical experience Zilka has of 40K, I'd expect his 'FLGS' is the same room he's posting from.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Melcavuk wrote:

zilka86 wrote:
Just like my brother will no longer play in group again as he is sick of people insulting him because his choice of how he runs his tau army so. So 40k is basically run the best our your a loser and a idiot if you do anything else that's me understanding of 40k community

I'm sorry but this is merely a case of needing thicker skin, in life people will pften critique how you do things, that isnt a reason to give up on them. They say his list is suboptimal? Well then when he wins it'll be that much sweeter. If you dislike 40k and its community then perhaps look at other gaming systems, insulting the game and community doesnt fix things.

I'm honestly getting worried about the crowd at Zilka's FLGS right now. I've had similar experiences with obnoxious hyper-competitive atmospheres at game stores; I ended up stopping going to the obnoxious one and switching to a place with a more laid-back/friendly group.

Well they all have 1500+ fully painted armies and are 18+. No kids, no games at 500-1000 points and no unpainted models. So they are very hardcore.

zilka86 wrote:
Just like my brother will no longer play in group again as he is sick of people insulting him because his choice of how he runs his tau army so. So 40k is basically run the best our your a loser and a idiot if you do anything else that's me understanding of 40k community

The '40K Community' is not a single, hive-mind-like entity. It all comes down to the people you play with.

If the players in your area are more hardcore, that's a sign that the players in your area are more hardcore, not that the entire 40K community plays that way.

Also I started an army buy in thread my first day here and 99.99 % of the advice I got was basically buy what you like with a few nods to competitive lists.

zilka86 wrote:
Yes i understand 40k its basically spam the best stuff if you want to win and if you don't ever want to win take what ever you want. Its just sad that's basically what 40k has become.

dude, you ARE 'the guy on the internet telling everyone that there's only one build they can play'!

it sounds like you need to get a different gaming group - start a list because you like its story and play fluffy battles where you aren't supposed to 'win'

i've had some of the best games i've ever had against a deliberately unstoppable flood of 'nids where it was about how long you could last and how much you take down with you.

i got a lot of inspiration from the dark vengance box set actually, the missions were properly characterful.
it was also the first time i have ever seen a single player mission for 40; it was with the chaos dred which had to be subdued - that was properly mind-blowing for me.

I'd like to know how you purposely ignore spell check with 99% of your threads and post, why you only ever post about this "issue" and how you manage to spell Riptide, Wraithknight and Imperial Knight differently every time you attempt to do so.

We're not talking about mixing up "then" and "than" here and there, most of the drivel you type is barely readable.

If your tales of what your foes bring to the table are true have you ever considered... I don't err... Talking to them? By your own admission all you fight against are "2 Imperial Knights, 2 Dreadknights, 2 Riptides and 2 Wraithknights in an Unbound list" every game! Mabye change the point values? Ban Unbound? Because making infinite threads on Dakka complaining to people who know nothing about your group is going to solve nothing.

 Zande4 wrote:
I'd like to know how you purposely ignore spell check with 99% of your threads and post, why you only ever post about this "issue" and how you manage to spell Riptide, Wraithknight and Imperial Knight differently every time you attempt to do so.

We're not talking about mixing up "then" and "than" here and there, most of the drivel you type is barely readable.

If your tales of what your foes bring to the table are true have you ever considered... I don't err... Talking to them? By your own admission all you fight against are "2 Imperial Knights, 2 Dreadknights, 2 Riptides and 2 Wraithknights in an Unbound list" every game! Mabye change the point values? Ban Unbound? Because making infinite threads on Dakka complaining to people who know nothing about your group is going to solve nothing.

Or find a different group/ play a different game if he's so unhappy here? Dude, zilka is uninterested in being proactive, or even typing properly. He won't do anything, despite any amount of suggestions and advice

Don't forget how he used to complain how a new codex invalidates all the models you've previously bought of that faction. His thing for ages was a new codex meant all his (then) current stuff had to be binned, and he had to to go out and re-buy his army. I'm serious.

Yes that is true because just like anyother game when new rules come out they replace all old stuff. And if ever army didn't have only one way to build them way does ever truny has the same army list for ever faction

I have never seen duplicates of the same lists before in over 10 years of playing. I have seen similar but still different, but never exactly the same.

Assuming ever is every, truny is tourney then that is the problem. You said your brother built his list for fun? Then what does it matter what people are running at Nova or Battlebrothers? Everyone has stated that some builds are more optimal than others, but you claimed you and your brother play for fun not to compete... so why are you looking at tourney lists in the first place?

zilka86 wrote:
Yes that is true because just like anyother game when new rules come out they replace all old stuff. And if ever army didn't have only one way to build them way does ever truny has the same army list for ever faction

If English isn't your first language, I used to be a ESL teacher and can probably find you a good program to get into.
If it is your first language...

I have found you an pretty much make any build you want and have a chance at winning if you are playing at 3k and up and not against a WAAC.

for 40k i literally never play the same build twice and its a lot of fun that way for me and others.

Why would you not use the same list ever game you will just get better and better with the same list the more you use it

zilka86 wrote:
Why would you not use the same list ever game you will just get better and better with the same list the more you use it

more fun, more challenging, and more experience with different builds and units.

Variety is the spice of life.

zilka86 wrote:
Why would you not use the same list ever game you will just get better and better with the same list the more you use it

Because getting better includes learning what options are better for your list, your playstyle and your meta.

 Ailaros wrote:
"Become"? It was always this way for people who wanted to win.

And also for any game
Let's look to the top LoL-teams.
Or the top WoW-arena teams.

If you have the option of A, valued at 350 "awesomeness", and option B, valued at 351 "awesomeness" then a player that wants to win the tournament goes with option B.

These are WAAC asshats, really, build your list how YOU want too. Foot slogging marines only? Cool. Ranged shooting orks? Why not!

these lists are for tournaments with people who have no lives, really, I just ignore them

zilka86 wrote:
Why would you not use the same list ever game you will just get better and better with the same list the more you use it

Because this is an excessively complicated game of rock-paper-scissors, not WMH. The skills required to play 40k well don't change that much between lists.

zilka86 wrote:
Yes that is true because just like anyother game when new rules come out they replace all old stuff. And if ever army didn't have only one way to build them way does ever truny has the same army list for ever faction

'Like any other game'? Utter bollocks.

Really?

Show me where in the rulebook. 'Chapter and verse', as they say.

You're talking rubbish zilka. It's time you realised this. No other wargame - No,wait- No wargame does this. Period. Saying what you say and spreading this disinformation does nothing but hurt the community.

My infinity models that I bought during its 2nd edition- they're still 100% game legal to use in its 3rd edition. And so are every one else's.

My warmachine models that I bought during its first edition - they're still 100% game legal to use in its second edition. And so are every one else's.

My tau and space wolves for 40k that I bought in third edition- should I choose to, since current armies still have all those units, those fire warriors, crisis suits, stealth suits, hammerheads and grey hunters are still 100% game legal in seventh ed. And so are every one else's. Heck - go out and buy a box of something, and check the date of production. There's every chance the sprues were manufactured several years ago, during sixth, fifth, or even earlier.

zilka86 wrote:
And if ever army didn't have only one way to build them way does ever truny has the same army list for ever faction

Tourneys are about the 'best' builds. Not every game is a tourney, nor needs to be about fielding 'the best most optimum units'.

And for gods sake - learn to spell. You come across like a three year old. I wonder if you do this deliberately just to rile people up.

Deadnight wrote:
I wonder if you do this deliberately just to rile people up.

He seems to be succeeding.

The jimmies, they are a-rustling.

zilka86 wrote:
Why would you not use the same list ever game you will just get better and better with the same list the more you use it

Because that only works until you meet the rock to your paper.

Assuming you're not a troll, you should probably try to find another meta. Or at least change who you play/talk to in your current meta. It sounds like they are toxic for you. Which happens.

With new players, I can see value in cautioning them away from some of the worst options at the start (like Harlies), but for many people, we'd rather play what we want.

And if both players do that, and change it up at times, a new meta settles out. One that matches what they want to play, not necessarily the most competative stuff.

Try playing different people? Leave the conversations that are upsetting you? There are countless discussions about anything on the internet. You will disagree with some. If it interferes with your enjoyment of anything, just leave that conversation?

 Portugal Jones wrote:
The jimmies, they are a-rustling.

zilka86 wrote:
Why would you not use the same list ever game you will just get better and better with the same list the more you use it

Because that only works until you meet the rock to your paper.

But paper beats rock, because rock beats scissors and scissors beats paper

 Ghaz wrote:

But paper beats rock, because rock beats scissors and scissors beats paper

Burt Evonne take rovk in they're games. Why dos no one tau Scissrs ad paper??

(Ha, this un-spelling malarkey is fun!)

But seriously, don't forget Spock and lizard

How am i spreading disinformation i only speak from my experiences and my understand of the 40k community as whole