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I voted for Imperial Knights. While I am a supporter for options available to players, I don't see why the knights should have their own primary detachment. I am fine with them being an ally option for the Imperials so you can have a Knight battling alongside your guardsmen or space marines.

I just don't see the fun in a knight-only army.

"My army is a Cadian Imperial Guard regiment run by a Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus. What is yours?"

"Three super-heavy vehicles."

"Oh how tactical and interesting this game is going to be!"

That made me laugh at the absurdity. And I hate that it's true.

Honestly, if I NEEDED an Imperial Knight, I'd just get a Forgeworld model and not spend the money on the 'codex'. Free PDF rules are much more practical for one friggin unit.

I'm curious why people would rather have a $200 600-page superbook for all the imperial armies rather than the current codex system.

Better be quiet - GW might be listening. The last thing we need is all armies combined into a single rulebook you've got to pay half a grand for.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
That made me laugh at the absurdity. And I hate that it's true.

Honestly, if I NEEDED an Imperial Knight, I'd just get a Forgeworld model and not spend the money on the 'codex'. Free PDF rules are much more practical for one friggin unit.

Cerastus Kights and the Magerea are more distinct from one another and visually interesting anyhow.

I'd probably go for an Acheron. Moves into position very quickly, then can launch a huge hellstorm template in one direction then snap off a few heavy bolter shots as a mere formality to allow it to charge a separate unit.

Can't harm a Land Raider with a heavy bolter? Irrelevant, by shooting it you've established targeting and can go stab it with a giant Chainfist. The other two Cerastus models have overkill issues where they only have one gun and have to charge what they shot, and target saturation is pretty much all I want from a Superheavy trying to earn all those points back.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ailaros wrote:
I'm curious why people would rather have a $200 600-page superbook for all the imperial armies rather than the current codex system.

Better be quiet - GW might be listening. The last thing we need is all armies combined into a single rulebook you've got to pay half a grand for.

And can use as a handy blugeon if you have the upper body strength to transport it.

 sarpedons-right-hand wrote:
My vote went to Imperial Knights. It just seems pointless having a whole Codex dedicated to what should, ostensibly be, a Support Unit. Somewhere on Dakka there is a thread asking if 40k is too bloated. Daft things like Imperial Knights having their own book are adding to the bloated-ness of the game. Imperial Knights should jut be a support choice in the SM Codices, IG and Chaos 'Dex's. That's it.

£25 for a 64 page book giving you the rules for TWO units!? WTF?

I believe it's actually a 6 page codex with two units

Half of other pages are just the same picture over and over with different color patterns on it


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ailaros wrote:
I'm curious why people would rather have a $200 600-page superbook for all the imperial armies rather than the current codex system.

Better be quiet - GW might be listening. The last thing we need is all armies combined into a single rulebook you've got to pay half a grand for.

But then they could make a limited edition version with a brand new painting on the cover, a poster and slipcase, priced at $2,000 -- that sells out 2 seconds after it goes online!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
That made me laugh at the absurdity. And I hate that it's true.

Honestly, if I NEEDED an Imperial Knight, I'd just get a Forgeworld model and not spend the money on the 'codex'. Free PDF rules are much more practical for one friggin unit.

Technically, you still need the "formation" But anyhow, borrow friend's copy and photocopy 6 pages. The cost of the models is more prohibitive, unless you buy recasts, since IK is the most egregiously recast model that GW/FW makes.

None, just combine a few like sisters of battle, grey knights and inquisition into one.
Tau + farsight
Chaos + chaos deamons
Scions + guard, (krieg, etc included)
And not increase prices but combine ones that should be natural allies together.
The idea I of a whole impirial codex in one would be too damn huge to contemplate though.

Just link natural allies so easy as possible to build combined fuctinal armies.
And bonus you may atchually sell more models :-)

Agreed that no army should truly disappear, more appropriately absorbed in their similar codex with supplements for flavor.

We have space Vikings so why not space Mongols then? (oh yeah)... different successful historical armies seem to be the means of adding flavor to the "white bread" space marines.

Tau appeal a bit to the anime crowd so it works, people who like cleaner lines to their tech can be happy.

Orks, not sure how it could be the same without them. How they can survive never-mind thrive: read the fluff! Possible slave race with tech knowledge imbedded in their DNA. They do not "invent", more like they "remember" stuff.

Squats are still waiting around to be found again.

I could see inquisition, sisters, arbites and mechanicus being rolled into one faction as like "Imperium of Man" infrastructure, the first defense before the military deploys.

I would like to see Tyranids more like their beginnings with the genestealers: an infestation of the imperium of man.
Think of Skaven but as cockroaches on steroids, invasive as all heck and hard to root-out (Inquisitor exterminator?).

I think if it got down to just a few core books it could be more fun than less:

Space Marine: all of them: DA, BA, SM, GK, SW

Imperium of Man: Sisters, Inquisition, arbites, mechanicus, militia, hive gangs.

Imperial Guard: The space faring, planet defense, command assets: AM

The Old Ones (Eldar): Eldar, Dark Eldar, Harlequins, their (daemon?) gods.

It came from the warp: Daemons, CSM, Various Cults based on gods or just imbedded in populations (Alpha Legion, Word Bearers).

Hidden Threat: Necron, Tyranid, armies that can spring up from nowhere with no warning, common opponent of "Imperium of man".

Threats of the Void: Tau, Demiurg (Squats), Pirates.

Orks: Just cannot see a way to lump them with anything, they are an entire travelling ecosystem, like imperium of man with a heightened pecking order.

Wow, really drives home how many factions there are out there: too many.

 Ailaros wrote:
I'm curious why people would rather have a $200 600-page superbook for all the imperial armies rather than the current codex system.

Better be quiet - GW might be listening. The last thing we need is all armies combined into a single rulebook you've got to pay half a grand for.

Probably because they play Xenos and are unhappy that they have to share releases with 4 different Space Marine books.
And then we might have some Salamander-players that are jealous because Space Wolves get their own book and they don't.

I personally don't want any army to be removed, I don't see any reason to remove an army because I might be but-hurt for some reason.

Merging Codices might be even worse.
Yes, merging Inquisition and SoB might make sense from a lore-PoV.
But it would also mean I need to buy a big book filled with Sisters of Battle, just to play my Inquisitor with a few Crusader-models.
Nor do I want to buy a book filled with 15 chapters just to play the Blood Angels I have been playing for a long time.

 Ailaros wrote:
I'm curious why people would rather have a $200 600-page superbook for all the imperial armies rather than the current codex system.

Because:

1) It wouldn't have to be a $200 book unless GW used it as an opportunity to rip everyone off. The actual rules text of all those marine codices isn't very long, especially if you get rid of all the pointless "look at me I'm a special snowflake buy my $50 kit" units that only exist to fill up space in a separate codex. You could put all the marine armies into C:SM with maybe 5-10 additional pages of rules, and a few pages of fluff.

2) It would be a great improvement for the people who don't buy their rules. Now, instead of having to keep track of tons of codices/supplements/etc everything is in one simple download.

I'd probably remove Imperial Guard.

Keep that stuff to Bolt Action or so. Keep over-the-top-sci-fi over-the-top-sci-if.

Kangodo wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
I'm curious why people would rather have a $200 600-page superbook for all the imperial armies rather than the current codex system.

Better be quiet - GW might be listening. The last thing we need is all armies combined into a single rulebook you've got to pay half a grand for.

Probably because they play Xenos and are unhappy that they have to share releases with 4 different Space Marine books.

Five. No way can you convince me a pile of psychic points and Terminator Troops mean that Grey Knights aren't just another Marine codex.

Until a proper codex is printed, Sisters of Battle. Sorry, I do not consider a digital release as a real codex.

changemod wrote:
Five. No way can you convince me a pile of psychic points and Terminator Troops mean that Grey Knights aren't just another Marine codex.

They are a Space Marine Codex since they are a Space Marine Chapter.
Still doesn't mean they should be thrown in with all of the others, just like Necrons deserve their own Codex instead of being a single book together with Tyranids.

 Ailaros wrote:
I'm curious why people would rather have a $200 600-page superbook for all the imperial armies rather than the current codex system.

Better be quiet - GW might be listening. The last thing we need is all armies combined into a single rulebook you've got to pay half a grand for.

Why does everyone assume a combined book of any sort would be some absurdly huge number of pages and need to be some obscene price? Flames of War will give you a hardback rulebook with a dozen and a half army lists for four different nations in 200something pages with fluff included, for $30...

Unless we're just assuming GW will simply try to go overboard, which I guess is possible. But needn't necessarily be so.

There are good ideas (like merging SM dexes) and then there's announcing we must purge factions that are integral to the setting for reasons as flimsy as "I don't like them very much."

But my vote is eldar! Those elves must die! (I would not remove them though I understand what they bring to the setting and why people like them.)

Kangodo wrote:
Still doesn't mean they should be thrown in with all of the others, just like Necrons deserve their own Codex instead of being a single book together with Tyranids.

Necrons deserve their own codex because they have nothing in common with other armies (Tyranids don't because they suck and should be removed). GK, on the other hand, are just marines with different USRs and can be handled by the chapter tactics system. For example:

Chapter Tactics: GK

We love the new psychic phase: all units with CT:GK gain the Brotherhood of Psykers USR and may generate powers from {appropriate lists}. All vehicle units in a detachment with CT:GK gain the Psychic Pilot USR and may generate powers from {appropriate lists}.

We're space marines +1: any infantry unit with CT:GK may choose any of the following options:
* Replace all bolters with storm bolters and force weapons for +X points per model.
* Any model eligible to take a heavy or special weapon may instead take a heavy bolter for +X points.
* Take psychic ammunition (+1 strength for all bolters, storm bolters, heavy bolters, autocannons, and assault cannons) for +X points per model.

Special characters/units:
* Chapter master Mary-Sue Draigo
* Captain "I'm even more immune to chaos than the rest of the 110% immune to chaos marines"

There, problem solved. Shouldn't take more than 2-3 pages in C:SM, and that's if each unit gets its own page.

This is my thought on the lay out, you don't want to merge all the imperialor all the xenos together as then you would have two expensive tomes, so their is 3 Imperial, 2 Xenos and 1 Chaos

Codex Inquisition
- Sisters of Battle
- Grey Knights
- Assassins
- Inquisition

Codex Imperial Guard
- Imperial Guard
- Storm Troopers
- Imperial Knights

Codex Space Marines
- Space Marines
- Dark Angels
- Blood Angels
- Space Wolves
- Legion of the Damned

Codex Chaos
- Chaos Daemons
- Chaos Space Marines

Codex Eldar
- Eldar
- Dark Eldar
- Harlequins

Codex Xenos
- Orks
- Tyranids
- Tau
- Necrons

Vaktathi wrote:Why does everyone assume a combined book of any sort would be some absurdly huge number of pages and need to be some obscene price? Flames of War will give you a hardback rulebook with a dozen and a half army lists for four different nations in 200something pages with fluff included, for $30...

Because FoW has a handful of units, no fluff, and is printed black and white by some dude with a laser printer in his office.

When you combine hundreds of different units, and hundreds of special rules, and hundreds of pictures of the models and all the fluff, all in hardback with full-color pages, the end result is going to be absurd.

Just like the idea of combining even all the SM factions into a single codex, much less all IoM.

So much torn.


The correct answer is Imperial Knights, any which way you slice it. Models that size never had a place in regular 40K.


However, in terms of what faction would provide the most benefit to 40K if it were to be gone is Space Wolves. They've been utterly and irredeemably ruined. Their fluff is so unfathomably stupid, and the models have been in stiff competition to match that stupidity.

 Ailaros wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:Why does everyone assume a combined book of any sort would be some absurdly huge number of pages and need to be some obscene price? Flames of War will give you a hardback rulebook with a dozen and a half army lists for four different nations in 200something pages with fluff included, for $30...

Because FoW has a handful of units, no fluff, and is printed black and white by some dude with a laser printer in his office.

Huh? Ok, so apparently you aren't familiar with Flames of War, like, at all.

The fullcolor books with dozens of pages of color art, dozens more of long detailed explanations of campaigns, individual battles, and individual personalities, and a couple hundred pages of color pictures of miniatures and color army list layouts I've got here on my shelf provide clear evidence to counter your claim.

Likewise, there's at least as many units as Warhammer 40k has, if not more. Several armies have two or three dozen different AFV's alone, with lots of different types of infantry units.

There's also huge numbers of different types of armies, with different "troops" equivalents, different support options, different armaments, different experience and morale ratings, etc.

There's no button for "all Loyalist Space Marines should be one army".

I wouldn't remove anything.

I wouldn't be heartbroken if they merged some of the Space Marine codices together, but I don't necessarily feel its needed.

I do like the Tau schism idea, but not as a means of seperating the mechs from the Tau.

I'd also like to see SoB, Militarum Tempestus and Imperial Knights expanded rather than removed.

Also, I would like to voice a good deal of support for Codex: Rak'Gol. Yes, please and thank you.

All FoW "codices" fit in a 140 page book. That's only a little bit longer than just the new blood angels codex.

Saying an IoM wouldn't be huge because the FoW book isn't huge is like saying that a cruise ship is tiny because you have some pool floaties in your shed.

The amount of content is nowhere near the same.

 Ailaros wrote:
The amount of content is nowhere near the same.

You're right, it isn't. The average non-40k rulebook has way more content than a 40k codex. The only reason GW marine codices are so long is that they have to copy/paste the same Rhino, tactical squad, assault squad, etc from the previous marine codex. If you only consider the truly unique characters and units that can't be represented by things that are already in C:SM then you need 3-5 pages of rules per chapter at most.

What I want to say, pretty much has said. The "real" answer is Imperial Knights. I love them and I own one but it is just an extra codex I have to carry around for one model. As much as I do love the fluff in the codex itself, it can easily be merged into something like the Imperial Guard and still have its own Force Organization chart in order to just take one.

I agree, merge the ones that are similar. I bring 4 books just to play my army, 7 if you count the e-codices and it is just kind of tiresome.

 Ailaros wrote:
All FoW "codices" fit in a 140 page book. That's only a little bit longer than just the new blood angels codex.

Saying an IoM wouldn't be huge because the FoW book isn't huge is like saying that a cruise ship is tiny because you have some pool floaties in your shed.

The amount of content is nowhere near the same.

Which book are you talking about? Are you talking about the super basic one that comes with the rulebook as starter? Even that one I think is color.

I've got the Grey Wolf book right here, lets use it as an example. It covers Axis forces on the Western Front from Jan '44 to Feb '45. It's 238 pages, full color, with rules for German, Hungarian, and Finnish armies, with roughly 33 or 34 different army lists, dozens of AFV's and different infantry units and crew served guns, rules for several individual characters like Lauri Torni (Larry Thorn of Green Berets fame), painting guides for various different armies, and dozens of pages of background explaining the state of each army during the time period, the overall strategic situations, several main battles, and fluff for several specialist formations.

morgoth wrote:

 GKTiberius wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I either wouldn't remove any, because removing armies is a dick move, or I'd accept that 40k needs to be consolidated and remove everything that can realistically be removed by compressing them in to smaller tomes. Roll together all expansion armies in to their respective codices.

Removing just 1 army seems like a spiteful thing to do more than a useful thing.

This is pretty much what would happen if they were to follow the WFB end times pattern.

I honestly think an inquisition codex would be great, being able to take a full GK, full sob, full DW or full inquisitional army would be cool out of 1 codex or to mic and match for a combined force.. special detachments and FOC for each and a normal for mixed.

This is why I think unbound is the solution.

Well, if an Inquisition Codex was made, I would have henchmen as troops by default and all of the other troops stuff (SOB squad, GK strike squads, GK Terminators, Deathwatch Kill-Teams) as elites. If you take an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor special character as your warlord, sisters of battle become troops. If you take an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor special character, Kill-Teams become troops and if you take an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor or special character, GK strike squads and GK terminators become troops. If you take an Ordo Malleus/Hereticus/Xenos warlord, all of the stuff from the other chambers militant are elites.

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:

 Wulfmar wrote:
Imperial Guard - merge with Astra Militarum

LLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Really? Really? Is this guy for real?

It definitely made me pee a little.

 Vespid wrote:
This is my thought on the lay out, you don't want to merge all the imperialor all the xenos together as then you would have two expensive tomes, so their is 3 Imperial, 2 Xenos and 1 Chaos

Codex Inquisition
- Sisters of Battle
- Grey Knights
- Assassins
- Inquisition

Codex Imperial Guard
- Imperial Guard
- Storm Troopers
- Imperial Knights

Codex Space Marines
- Space Marines
- Dark Angels
- Blood Angels
- Space Wolves
- Legion of the Damned

Codex Chaos
- Chaos Daemons
- Chaos Space Marines

Codex Eldar
- Eldar
- Dark Eldar
- Harlequins

Codex Xenos
- Orks
- Tyranids
- Tau
- Necrons

I think it's a bit dismissive to make a "Codex: Xenos". They are all very unique armies with unique fluff. Plus, an allied army of Orks, Tyranids, Tau and Necrons, WTF!? Also, Eldar shouldn't be merged into one codex. Eldar and Dark Eldar are too different, but harlequins should be integrated into both codices. Finally, Knights should be expanded into a Mechanicum Codex or they should be able to be taken as a LOW by any Imperial Army.

Now for part two. I fully agree that all of the marine armies should be merged into a single marine codex. Dark Angels and Blood Angels are too similar to Vanilla marines not to be and on the subject of Space Wolves, if they can do it with Black Templars, they can do it with them. I agree with Imperial Guard, MT should have never had their own codex. I also agree with a chaos codex, daemon codex is too small to have an excuse to exist. Also, an Inquisition Codex is a good idea, but it would need some Deathwatch stuff in there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wulfmar wrote:
Sisters Of Battle - Nuke 'em, if not for the constant moaning of their fanbase, then for the simple idea of nuns with guns. Stick them in Inquisition at least or with Grey Knights.

Imperial Guard - merge with Astra Militarum

I don't know about you, but we should merge the Space Marines with the Adeptus Astartes.

with the eldar and xeno codex you'd have it so that they can only take units from their faction like how ultramarines can only take ultramarines special characters but can't take crusader squad units for example. So you wouldn't have orks, tyranids, tau and necrons in one detachment. But have them be able to ally with each other like codex space marines except using the ally chart. It just means less book keeping.