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Hi all

Just getting back into 40k after a long hiatus and just recently picked up the 7th edition book. I'm a little confused about formations. The rules state that formations are "special detachments" so this has be a bit confused.

1) Can a formation be your main detachment?
2) Since formations give you specific units you must use, does that mean you can only use those units in that formation or can you add more units to that same formation? For example, one BA formation just states you have to use 1 vanguard vet squad, and 2x assault squads but lists nothing else.

Formations vary greatly in size. Some are small (consisting of only a few units and not mentioning optional units you are allowed to take), some are medium normal sized 1500pt army equivalent, and some are easily 2k+ in points. This also makes it somewhat confusing.

Much used Explanation picture:

 Jidmah wrote:
There is no limitation of what detachments/formations your army is made up from, unless those are imposed by the detachment itself. For example, you could not have two formations which force you to make on of its members your warlord.

See this picture for an example of a perfectly legal battleforged army:

1). Primary? Yes.
2). No, you can't add units not on the list.

Edit: That image is so useful

for 2) you can take any optons normally available, including dedicated transports, unless the formation states otherwise

nosferatu1001 wrote:
for 2) you can take any optons normally available, including dedicated transports, unless the formation states otherwise

I would question that statement. See other thread.

A question base don no evidence, however

The other thread hasnt produced anythign showing, barring a specific restriction, removal of the permission to select options as normal, including dedicated transports.

Currently RAW you may select any options, including dedicated transports.

There is, however, a difference between paying 5pts for a weapons option, and selecting a separate unit: Rhino, and make it your DT.

One is a simply point-paid option. You "can / may" take X.
The other is selecting another Unit (Rhino) which you purchase/upgrade independently.

If the formation does not provide a Rhino, how can you "select" it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Never mind, i concede this one.

Another clarification question:

There is a recent BoLS article that uses the detachment from the BA codex, as well as a formation from the Shield of Baal campaign. He seemed to imply that all of the units would benefit from the +1 initiative the codex detachment gives.

It is my understanding from the rules that the detachments are separate in that the special rules are only given to the units within that detachment/formation.

partninja wrote:
Another clarification question:

There is a recent BoLS article that uses the detachment from the BA codex, as well as a formation from the Shield of Baal campaign. He seemed to imply that all of the units would benefit from the +1 initiative the codex detachment gives.

It is my understanding from the rules that the detachments are separate in that the special rules are only given to the units within that detachment/formation.

If a unit isn't part of that Detachment / Formation, it doesn't get the bonus.
Sounds like they've got it very wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BlackTalos wrote:
One is a simply point-paid option. You "can / may" take X.
The other is selecting another Unit (Rhino) which you purchase/upgrade independently.

"Boss Nob may take a Bosspole... Xpts"
"Unit may select a Trukk as a Dedicated Transport... Xpts"

In terms of unit options, there's not much difference.
And there's nothing to suggest a unit cannot take an option available to them, unless it's listed in the Formations Restrictions (as it is in the Green Tide).

Another related question:

Independent characters and multiple detachments - Say I take an HQ with my primary detachment. Can I attach him to a squad from a different detachment\formation? I assume the special rules that 2nd formation/detachment has will not transfer to the IC ?

partninja wrote:
Another related question:

Independent characters and multiple detachments - Say I take an HQ with my primary detachment. Can I attach him to a squad from a different detachment\formation? I assume the special rules that 2nd formation/detachment has will not transfer to the IC ?

As long as the two units are battle-brothers yes the IC can join. Whether or not he can benefit from the detachment/formation special rules is hotly debated. As such, I will not touch that part.

I think it depends on the wording.
The Baal Strike Force tells us that the bonus applies to "models from this Formation", so I don't think that works for IC's from another Detachment.

Kangodo wrote:
I think it depends on the wording.
The Baal Strike Force tells us that the bonus applies to "models from this Formation", so I don't think that works for IC's from another Detachment.

Whether or not attached ICs benefit from the rule entirely depends on how the rule is worded. In other words, it'll change from case to case.

In the case of the Baal Strike Force, we are told the bonus applies to "models from this Formation". An attached IC from an allied Detachment isn't a "model from this Formation" and so wouldn't gain the benefit.

IF we had been told that the bonus applied to "units from this Formation" or "unit from this Detachment" then an attached IC from an allied Detachment WOULD gain the benefit. After all, he is a part of that unit for "all rules purposes" (quoted from IC rules). Presumably, trying to decide whether or not he or she gets the bonus is a rules purpose.

But Happyjew is correct. This is hotly debated. Some people will draw a line in the stand and say the IC can't get the benefit ever, regardless of the "all rules purposes" wording. The key seems to be whether the benefit is granted to models or units.