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 The Shadow wrote:

 Accolade wrote:
Just wait.

GW isn't doing you any favors by even letting customers know this massive change is coming (or at the very least explaining their reasoning for the change), so you shouldn't be doing them any favors by picking up rulebooks that are about to be invalidated, or the "direct-only" Finecrap stock that will probably be dropped (the plastics will probably all be safe).

No company in the right mind would announce to customers that certain items from their range will be invalidated and useless, months out from the date when that will actually be so. That's missing out on months of potential sales. As Lord Cutler Beckett said, it's nothing personal, it's just good business.

Is it worse business practice to not let your customers know and then have them pissed off at you if they bought something in that period or just announce it a bit ahead of time and accept you'll have to ramp down production and get slightly less sales while the new product is being prepared for launch?

Neither are great outcomes, I do wonder which one ends up worse in the long run. Pissing off your customers is always something that should be avoided. A very large part of the reason I've bought almost no GW products in the past couple of years is because the bastards pulled the rug from under me while I was in the middle of collecting a force for one of the specialist games.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:

 Accolade wrote:
Just wait.

GW isn't doing you any favors by even letting customers know this massive change is coming (or at the very least explaining their reasoning for the change), so you shouldn't be doing them any favors by picking up rulebooks that are about to be invalidated, or the "direct-only" Finecrap stock that will probably be dropped (the plastics will probably all be safe).

No company in the right mind would announce to customers that certain items from their range will be invalidated and useless, months out from the date when that will actually be so. That's missing out on months of potential sales. As Lord Cutler Beckett said, it's nothing personal, it's just good business.

Is it worse business practice to not let your customers know and then have them pissed off at you if they bought something in that period or just announce it a bit ahead of time and accept you'll have to ramp down production and get slightly less sales while the new product is being prepared for launch?

Neither are great outcomes, I do wonder which one ends up worse in the long run. Pissing off your customers is always something that should be avoided. A very large part of the reason I've bought almost no GW products in the past couple of years is because the bastards pulled the rug from under me while I was in the middle of collecting a force for one of the specialist games.

Well, "a bit ahead of time" would not be now, considering the earliest rumours are pitching 9th to hit in April, and others in summer, but yes, a good company would announce to its customers a few weeks in advance, but certainly not a few months.

As for what the best practice is, I guess it depends on GW's business model and how faithful they deem their buyers are. Despite the hatred on this forum, I think GW can still afford to do such a roundabout change and still have people latch onto the 9th edition.

Ultimately though, GW want to maximise their profits before 9th hits, as 9th is a completely new venture with new targets.

Didn't Corvus Beli announce their 3rd edition of the rules six months in advance?

I just think GW is waaaay to callous about invalidating builds and armies in search of getting more money out of their existing customer base.

I would say 3 or more months would be a good time frame for announcing major changes in WHFB/40k. Maybe a bit less for codices (2 to 3 months maybe).

 Accolade wrote:
Didn't Corvus Beli announce their 3rd edition of the rules six months in advance?

Yep, and PP did it more than a year before the actual release.

And if Fantasy sales are as bad as everyone says, surely they can afford losing a couple of months of no sales in order to not piss everyone off...

It's annoying enough that we don't get anything concrete about Codexes til like a week before, let alone what is potentially a massive shakeup to the game they've produced for 30 years. GW would be a much better company and probably in a much better place as a company if they attempted to communicate with their customers in any way.

Im normally a very pro/positive GW person but have to agree, they must know these rumours are in overdrive, they could get a lot of good will if they denied it, so people did not need to panic or at least explained the change is coming in advance so that is not such a sudden change, giving people a chance to warm to the idea even if it is not ideal.

If the rumours turn out to be even 50% true im not sure how it benefits them to suddenly tell everyone a week before the potential drastic change goes on sale.

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:

 toasteroven wrote:
I do think there's been a couple of occasions where people have gone... a bit panicky

I heard some kid came into the Aberdeen store, found out all his Lizardmen were now dead, threw a tantrum and left all his stuff at the store.
While that's very extreme, if you really love your army and find out that GW have told them to bend over an take it, it doesn't make for a pleasant time.

dude... spoiler that gak. Some of us still haven't gotten the book yet I mean it's only been out 3 days.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:

 toasteroven wrote:
I do think there's been a couple of occasions where people have gone... a bit panicky

I heard some kid came into the Aberdeen store, found out all his Lizardmen were now dead, threw a tantrum and left all his stuff at the store.
While that's very extreme, if you really love your army and find out that GW have told them to bend over an take it, it doesn't make for a pleasant time.
One of the other regulars at the GW that day said he'd make a model of Thorgrim being murdered by the deathmaster and wave it in my face, to which I said "Feth off, I'm still in a recovery state, I don't need that", or something along those lines.

dude... spoiler that gak. Some of us still haven't gotten the book yet I mean it's only been out 3 days.

I don't know how to do the dropdown, I'll just have to add a big spoiler to the top, sorry for that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've worked out how to spoiler it, should be done now.

 Hubris wrote:
Im normally a very pro/positive GW person but have to agree, they must know these rumours are in overdrive, they could get a lot of good will if they denied it, so people did not need to panic or at least explained the change is coming in advance so that is not such a sudden change, giving people a chance to warm to the idea even if it is not ideal.

If the rumours turn out to be even 50% true im not sure how it benefits them to suddenly tell everyone a week before the potential drastic change goes on sale.

Especially as they're probably losing at least some sales from people who aren't sure whether to risk buying anything. I would've bought Thanquol and Boneripper, a Verminlord, and at least a box of Stormthingies, but instead I just bought the Thanquol book because I dunno if it's worth buying those models if they might not be around in 3/4 months.

No worries Cre...d. We all know End Times mean characters die but getting that specific needs a spoiler tag. just keep it in mind next time.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
No worries Cre...d. We all know End Times mean characters die but getting that specific needs a spoiler tag. just keep it in mind next time.

Will do, thanks.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Hubris wrote:
Im normally a very pro/positive GW person but have to agree, they must know these rumours are in overdrive, they could get a lot of good will if they denied it, so people did not need to panic or at least explained the change is coming in advance so that is not such a sudden change, giving people a chance to warm to the idea even if it is not ideal.

If the rumours turn out to be even 50% true im not sure how it benefits them to suddenly tell everyone a week before the potential drastic change goes on sale.

Especially as they're probably losing at least some sales from people who aren't sure whether to risk buying anything. I would've bought Thanquol and Boneripper, a Verminlord, and at least a box of Stormthingies, but instead I just bought the Thanquol book because I dunno if it's worth buying those models if they might not be around in 3/4 months.

I think it's more than a safe bet that all End Times models will be useable in 9th

 Bottle wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Hubris wrote:
Im normally a very pro/positive GW person but have to agree, they must know these rumours are in overdrive, they could get a lot of good will if they denied it, so people did not need to panic or at least explained the change is coming in advance so that is not such a sudden change, giving people a chance to warm to the idea even if it is not ideal.

If the rumours turn out to be even 50% true im not sure how it benefits them to suddenly tell everyone a week before the potential drastic change goes on sale.

Especially as they're probably losing at least some sales from people who aren't sure whether to risk buying anything. I would've bought Thanquol and Boneripper, a Verminlord, and at least a box of Stormthingies, but instead I just bought the Thanquol book because I dunno if it's worth buying those models if they might not be around in 3/4 months.

I think it's more than a safe bet that all End Times models will be useable in 9th

That is not what the rumours say. They specifically mention the End Times models as ones that will go away in the short term.

Accolade wrote:Didn't Corvus Beli announce their 3rd edition of the rules six months in advance?

I just think GW is waaaay to callous about invalidating builds and armies in search of getting more money out of their existing customer base.

PhantomViper wrote:

 Accolade wrote:
Didn't Corvus Beli announce their 3rd edition of the rules six months in advance?

Yep, and PP did it more than a year before the actual release.

Very true, but these smaller wargames companies are a lot different to GW. Firstly, since GW is the biggest wargames company, these guys need to compete somehow (i.e. better customer services, more communication with the playerbase) and, secondly, GW sell to kids and other people who are blind to the world of alternative wargames. These people lap up what GW give them because, to them, it's the only thing there is and they deal with any sudden changes because, to them, that comes hand in hand with the hobby. Smaller wargames sell to veterans, people who are more switched on and less "sheep-like", people who care about stuff like getting rules in advance.

Hubris wrote:Im normally a very pro/positive GW person but have to agree, they must know these rumours are in overdrive, they could get a lot of good will if they denied it, so people did not need to panic or at least explained the change is coming in advance so that is not such a sudden change, giving people a chance to warm to the idea even if it is not ideal.

This forum, and ones like it, are a tiny portion of GW's target market. Yes, we know the rumours, but the vast majority of people who buy GW product don't, and therefore will keeping buying WHFB right up until "Zero Hour", even if it's about to be invalidated (because, of course, they don't know that)

 The Shadow wrote:

Hubris wrote:Im normally a very pro/positive GW person but have to agree, they must know these rumours are in overdrive, they could get a lot of good will if they denied it, so people did not need to panic or at least explained the change is coming in advance so that is not such a sudden change, giving people a chance to warm to the idea even if it is not ideal.

This forum, and ones like it, are a tiny portion of GW's target market. Yes, we know the rumours, but the vast majority of people who buy GW product don't, and therefore will keeping buying WHFB right up until "Zero Hour", even if it's about to be invalidated (because, of course, they don't know that)

While I agree that the opinion of forum dwellers is often massively overstated given how little of the population it actually encompasses, I think when it comes to rumours they do tend to spread. People discuss it over a game in their local club or store, chatting to gaming mates rumours often come up "oh did you hear the rumours?".

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:

Hubris wrote:Im normally a very pro/positive GW person but have to agree, they must know these rumours are in overdrive, they could get a lot of good will if they denied it, so people did not need to panic or at least explained the change is coming in advance so that is not such a sudden change, giving people a chance to warm to the idea even if it is not ideal.

This forum, and ones like it, are a tiny portion of GW's target market. Yes, we know the rumours, but the vast majority of people who buy GW product don't, and therefore will keeping buying WHFB right up until "Zero Hour", even if it's about to be invalidated (because, of course, they don't know that)

While I agree that the opinion of forum dwellers is often massively overstated given how little of the population it actually encompasses, I think when it comes to rumours they do tend to spread. People discuss it over a game in their local club or store, chatting to gaming mates rumours often come up "oh did you hear the rumours?".

It would take GW 5 mins to put out a message like "we've seen the rumours and they aren't true. Please continue purchasing as normal" if the current 9th edition rumours were costing them sales. But they won't, they'll let it fester until the big reveal.

Ya know what's really depressing? Waking up.

Im curious as to what the GW staff in there stores have to say when they meet new WFB interested customers.

For example...Oh sorry kid bad choice, not sure if that army will be in existence, but HEY take a look at our Hobbit line!

Has anyone been to the stores lately? Just wondering what their new pitch is now.

Captain Chronos wrote:
Im curious as to what the GW staff in there stores have to say when they meet new WFB interested customers.

For example...Oh sorry kid bad choice, not sure if that army will be in existence, but HEY take a look at our Hobbit line!

Has anyone been to the stores lately? Just wondering what their new pitch is now.

Today we had this conversation yet again amongst our core group.
One side going yeah, it'll be crappy and skirmishy, but you can play pre-end times big battles too.
The other side was, you're a dwarf player, how will you be able to do that knowing all your guys just end up dead.
Err....

Captain Chronos wrote:
Im curious as to what the GW staff in there stores have to say when they meet new WFB interested customers.

For example...Oh sorry kid bad choice, not sure if that army will be in existence, but HEY take a look at our Hobbit line!

Has anyone been to the stores lately? Just wondering what their new pitch is now.

It's the same as always. buy buy buy!

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:

Hubris wrote:Im normally a very pro/positive GW person but have to agree, they must know these rumours are in overdrive, they could get a lot of good will if they denied it, so people did not need to panic or at least explained the change is coming in advance so that is not such a sudden change, giving people a chance to warm to the idea even if it is not ideal.

This forum, and ones like it, are a tiny portion of GW's target market. Yes, we know the rumours, but the vast majority of people who buy GW product don't, and therefore will keeping buying WHFB right up until "Zero Hour", even if it's about to be invalidated (because, of course, they don't know that)

While I agree that the opinion of forum dwellers is often massively overstated given how little of the population it actually encompasses, I think when it comes to rumours they do tend to spread. People discuss it over a game in their local club or store, chatting to gaming mates rumours often come up "oh did you hear the rumours?".

It would take GW 5 mins to put out a message like "we've seen the rumours and they aren't true. Please continue purchasing as normal" if the current 9th edition rumours were costing them sales. But they won't, they'll let it fester until the big reveal.

OR.... they dont because the rumors are actually right.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:

Captain Chronos wrote:
Im curious as to what the GW staff in there stores have to say when they meet new WFB interested customers.

For example...Oh sorry kid bad choice, not sure if that army will be in existence, but HEY take a look at our Hobbit line!

Has anyone been to the stores lately? Just wondering what their new pitch is now.

It's the same as always. buy buy buy!

And that's reason number 1 of why I never liked going into GW stores. Seriously, the hard sell just stresses me out and makes me want to leave.

My local GW have done just the opposite - WFB hardly featured at all in their window display for pretty much the last decade, but I noticed walking past this week, 6 shelves or so each have a WFB book and a small WFB army on.

'Cynical' doesn't even begin to cover it.

If it makes you feel any better, Mantic have been playtesting Kings of War v2 for a while now and it is due out in the summer.

They have plenty of scope to port your existing whfb armies too

Captain Chronos wrote:
Im curious as to what the GW staff in there stores have to say when they meet new WFB interested customers.

For example...Oh sorry kid bad choice, not sure if that army will be in existence, but HEY take a look at our Hobbit line!

Has anyone been to the stores lately? Just wondering what their new pitch is now.

There is a MASSIVE fantasy scene in my local GW. Last games night there were more Fantasy games being played than 40k. Lots of the regulars have just bought fantasy armies (including one of the staff), and we have all been playing Triumph and Treachery multiplayer games.

That's why I'm so sad to think this won't be forever. However, I'm trying to stay positive about 9th.

 Bottle wrote:

Captain Chronos wrote:
Im curious as to what the GW staff in there stores have to say when they meet new WFB interested customers.

For example...Oh sorry kid bad choice, not sure if that army will be in existence, but HEY take a look at our Hobbit line!

Has anyone been to the stores lately? Just wondering what their new pitch is now.

There is a MASSIVE fantasy scene in my local GW. Last games night there were more Fantasy games being played than 40k. Lots of the regulars have just bought fantasy armies (including one of the staff), and we have all been playing Triumph and Treachery multiplayer games.

That's why I'm so sad to think this won't be forever. However, I'm trying to stay positive about 9th.

Yeah, I've always been jealous how popular WHFB has been in England as compared to the States. I personally think it's a great game (even if the more recent editions did a lot to bloat it).

Well, maybe this new grimdark 9th will draw in more people on this side of the pond.

 Accolade wrote:

 Bottle wrote:

Captain Chronos wrote:
Im curious as to what the GW staff in there stores have to say when they meet new WFB interested customers.

For example...Oh sorry kid bad choice, not sure if that army will be in existence, but HEY take a look at our Hobbit line!

Has anyone been to the stores lately? Just wondering what their new pitch is now.

There is a MASSIVE fantasy scene in my local GW. Last games night there were more Fantasy games being played than 40k. Lots of the regulars have just bought fantasy armies (including one of the staff), and we have all been playing Triumph and Treachery multiplayer games.

That's why I'm so sad to think this won't be forever. However, I'm trying to stay positive about 9th.

Yeah, I've always been jealous how popular WHFB has been in England as compared to the States. I personally think it's a great game (even if the more recent editions did a lot to bloat it).

Well, maybe this new grimdark 9th will draw in more people on this side of the pond.

I think my local is irregular though. We had a new manager start last week and he commented how surprising it was to see everyone playing/painting and talking fantasy.

It makes me feel a little detached from the rumors and also the reports of how badly fantasy is doing globally.

I too hope new life will be breathed into the game with 9th keeping it alive for another 25 years