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Whats that thing they say about emulation and flattery?

Also, if its cultural appropriation for white people to braid their hair, isn't it cultural appropriation for black people to dye their hair blond?

Oh wait, never mind. Black people can never be racist.

 easysauce wrote:

Or the culture of the Greeks to make the movie 300, which is wildly inaccurate (not to mention dissing the Persians)

As you might recall, the film did in fact get a lot of criticism for its portrayal of the Persians as vicious animals (literally), but the difference is that the inaccuracies are intentional through the use of its Unreliable Narrator.

or James bond movies for appropriating British culture, then Americanizing it, then appropriating American culture?

I'm sure the British are very upset about a British man being portrayed as the ideal male and a huge badass who bags multiple women over the course of each movie and as of late at least has been portrayed as an actual well-rounded character with development. It's entirely equivalent to white people perpetuating negative Native American stereotypes for profit.

Only it isn't. False equivalency.

or for the movie Canadian bacon, for appropriating and making fun of Canadian culture?

No clue, though apparently it got a lot of gak for what you claim it did.

for skyrim and the Scandinavians,

There are no Scandinavians in Skyrim.

so on, and so forth.

Did you have more false equivalencies to share?

Pretty much every single story archetype from any culture in history has, or can have, a story/film/ect made about it.

Pretty much every single film/book/ect draws from something, somewhere, and exaggerates stuff to one extreme or the other.

Yep, and there's a right way to do it. Or do you think that Hollywood releasing a modern version of Mammy would be perfectly okay? Because that's the kind of behavior you're condoning.

Your Idea of cultural appropriation equates to running around screaming

"ITS MINE ITS MINE I WONT SHARE IDEAS AND CULTURE!"

Strawman fallacy (those are popular in this thread).

As if ideas and cultures were cookies that were finite and consumable instead of ideas, or culture, which is arguably *meant* to be spread and shared.

Hey man I'd agree. But there's a difference between actually celebrating and spreading a culture, and releasing a superficial and harmful stereotype-perpetuating theme park version of it for profit, without any feth given toward the culture in question. You know, like what was done with the Native Americans.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Whats that thing they say about emulation and flattery?

Also, if its cultural appropriation for white people to braid their hair, isn't it cultural appropriation for black people to dye their hair blond?

Oh wait, never mind. Black people can never be racist.

You may not have read the thread and as such might not be aware of this, but I'm pretty sure that literally no one condoned the actions of the people in the OP (one person did say we should be sympathetic toward them though, which I disagree with).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Medium of Death wrote:
It's a pretty spurious argument to say that were meant to be living in multicultural countries but some minorities get to pick up their ball and leave if somebody does it "better". "Better" in the sense that they get some pointless awards or get more money? Is that how you judge how valuable your culture is? Are they just wanting the profits from shilling their own culture?

I'd agree. That's why the Eminem comparison is pretty bad. He shouldn't be held back just because his mainstream black contemporaries are so much worse than he is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Medium of Death wrote:

I'd agree that it serves to eventually create a new massive underclass. I'm meaning more currently bickering about stupid gak like cultural appropriation is a distraction from the real topic at hand and making people fight over a very small amount of money/influence/power while the real wealth and power stays at the very top. Nobody is going to be able to stand up to international finance fething up the world if they manage to fracture the 99.9% so successfully that nobody agrees on anything and we all bicker over the branded goods rather than attacking the people that are branding them.

Sometimes that gets shout down as "eat the Rich", "You're jealous" etc type argument but that's not the case. I don't hate the rich, I'm just wary that they are getting ever wealthier and exerting more influence with no regard for nations or there people. I think most people would need to be fairly warped to see that as I bad thing. (Last bit not directed at yourself, just more generally).

I agree, but that's not really what this thread is about, is it?

People can want to kill the rich in their sleep (this is hyperbole), while still wanting other people to be sensitive to cultural appropriation (not that I really am all that much).

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:

I'd agree that it serves to eventually create a new massive underclass. I'm meaning more currently bickering about stupid gak like cultural appropriation is a distraction from the real topic at hand and making people fight over a very small amount of money/influence/power while the real wealth and power stays at the very top. Nobody is going to be able to stand up to international finance fething up the world if they manage to fracture the 99.9% so successfully that nobody agrees on anything and we all bicker over the branded goods rather than attacking the people that are branding them.

Sometimes that gets shout down as "eat the Rich", "You're jealous" etc type argument but that's not the case. I don't hate the rich, I'm just wary that they are getting ever wealthier and exerting more influence with no regard for nations or there people. I think most people would need to be fairly warped to see that as I bad thing. (Last bit not directed at yourself, just more generally).

I agree, but that's not really what this thread is about, is it?

People can want to kill the rich in their sleep (this is hyperbole), while still wanting other people to be sensitive to cultural appropriation (not that I really am all that much).

Think of all the rich people we could be killing instead of talking about this!??!?!

It's true that people can, and often do, hold multiple opinions. I just think things like this obfuscate who's really creating the "problem".

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Whats that thing they say about emulation and flattery?

Also, if its cultural appropriation for white people to braid their hair, isn't it cultural appropriation for black people to dye their hair blond?

Oh wait, never mind. Black people can never be racist.

You may not have read the thread and as such might not be aware of this, but I'm pretty sure that literally no one condoned the actions of the people in the OP (one person did say we should be sympathetic toward them though, which I disagree with).

It wasn't directed at anyone in this thread at all (because, as you say, I only read the first page, not the following 7 pages), just a sarcastic reference to the common meme of "X people are always the victims of "Y", never the perpetrators".

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Whats that thing they say about emulation and flattery?

Also, if its cultural appropriation for white people to braid their hair, isn't it cultural appropriation for black people to dye their hair blond?

Oh wait, never mind. Black people can never be racist.

Perhaps... but it's most DEFINITELY appropriation for them to play basketball

 easysauce wrote:
Or the culture of the Greeks to make the movie 300, which is wildly inaccurate (not to mention dissing the Persians)

Honestly, Disney's Hercule was way worse. Or whatever Titan clash something. Or… every goddamn Hollywood movie trying to involve Greek mythology. I hate you Hollywood .
But let me be clear about something. The movie 300 was more offensive to Persians than the parody of the movie 300 by South Park. Yes. The South Park parody was less offensive. South Park. Less offensive. How fethed up is that?

Sorry this post doesn't actually contribute to the thread, just wanted to share my experience as a white guy who had them.

A couple of years back when my afro got huge, I got it braided. Wasn't told off by anyone once about it or called racist, in fact the black guys working in the salon (black hair care salon, obviously) said it looked good on me. No hostility felt from them at all. Girls loved them too.

The only problem was inside the gym! All the impact from my running and the constant assault from my sweat began to take their toll on them. In a few weeks the rows began to unravel at random spots, just little spikes of hair poking out.

I like her hair btw, she went through a long and painful process if they were done well.

 PrehistoricUFO wrote:
Sorry this post doesn't actually contribute to the thread, just wanted to share my experience as a white guy who had them.

A couple of years back when my afro got huge, I got it braided. Wasn't told off by anyone once about it or called racist, in fact the black guys working in the salon (black hair care salon, obviously) said it looked good on me. No hostility felt from them at all. Girls loved them too.

The only problem was inside the gym! All the impact from my running and the constant assault from my sweat began to take their toll on them. In a few weeks the rows began to unravel at random spots, just little spikes of hair poking out.

I like her hair btw, she went through a long and painful process if they were done well.

That is because there is nothing wrong with it.

The problem is we have a sub-culture of people who seem to live for the sole purpose of being offended. They'll coast through life, simply looking for things to get angry about.

 djones520 wrote:

 PrehistoricUFO wrote:
Sorry this post doesn't actually contribute to the thread, just wanted to share my experience as a white guy who had them.

A couple of years back when my afro got huge, I got it braided. Wasn't told off by anyone once about it or called racist, in fact the black guys working in the salon (black hair care salon, obviously) said it looked good on me. No hostility felt from them at all. Girls loved them too.

The only problem was inside the gym! All the impact from my running and the constant assault from my sweat began to take their toll on them. In a few weeks the rows began to unravel at random spots, just little spikes of hair poking out.

I like her hair btw, she went through a long and painful process if they were done well.

That is because there is nothing wrong with it.

The problem is we have a sub-culture of people who seem to live for the sole purpose of being offended. They'll coast through life, simply looking for things to get angry about.

Truth. And those people need to be sterilized and cast into the sun for being horrible human beings.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 easysauce wrote:
Or the culture of the Greeks to make the movie 300, which is wildly inaccurate (not to mention dissing the Persians)

Honestly, Disney's Hercule was way worse. Or whatever Titan clash something. Or… every goddamn Hollywood movie trying to involve Greek mythology. I hate you Hollywood .
But let me be clear about something. The movie 300 was more offensive to Persians than the parody of the movie 300 by South Park. Yes. The South Park parody was less offensive. South Park. Less offensive. How fethed up is that?

oh definitely, no argument there that the portrayals are often completely inaccurate historically.

But its all works of *fiction* and anyone who takes works of fiction seriously or expects historical accuracy has a serious problem. More over, someones fictional story is a work of *their* culture, not the cultures they might portray in their fictional medium.



And its not stealing anyone's culture, culture isnt even a thing to be stolen, and its actually supposed to be shared.

The people complaining about cultural appropriation are just as racist in their "its mine, and mine alone" possessive ownership attitude, as people who complain about other ethnicities having babies together.

"those are MY braids, you cant do them!" "those are my women you cant have sex with them!" "those are MY songs, you cannot sing them!" "those are my words you cannot say them" "those are my thoughts, you cannot think them!"


I discussed this article with some friends recently, at a party where it was about 20 black people, a few asians and two white guys. Everyone said the people bugging this poor girl were the actual racists, and very immature people at that.


I was told to never grow a afro though, but for purely "you already look stupid enough" reasons as opposed to weekend social justice warrior "reasons"

300 was based on a highly stylised comic book. Anybody who expects historical accuracy from a comic book movie should be kicked down the nearest well.

Also, whilst we're on the subject of offensive media, I wonder what Iranian children's tv is like. I expect it's rather a lot like Palestinian children's tv. Iranians are no strangers to offensive racial stereotypes I expect.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
300 was based on a highly stylised comic book. Anybody who expects historical accuracy from a comic book movie should be kicked down the nearest well.

Also, whilst we're on the subject of offensive media, I wonder what Iranian children's tv is like. I expect it's rather a lot like Palestinian children's tv. Iranians are no strangers to offensive racial stereotypes I expect.

Anyone expecting Iranian or Palestinian children's TV to be accurate should be kicked down the nearest well.

Getting offended over an inaccurate portrayal of a culture that existed almost 2500 years ago would be a bit petty. It doesn't exist anymore.

In fact, I think getting offended over anything that happened more than 2 generations ago is a bit petty. The past is the past, move on.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Getting offended over an inaccurate portrayal of a culture that existed almost 2500 years ago would be a bit petty. It doesn't exist anymore.

In fact, I think getting offended over anything that happened more than 2 generations ago is a bit petty. The past is the past, move on.

That works for us Americans, cause we didn't have a culture 2500 years ago (as in a American-European culture). We're not even 300 years old yet.

But some countries have histories that go back thousands of years, so I think it's not that outlandish said countries would get offended about wildly inaccurate and negative presentations of their ancient ancestors.

That said. 300 was fething fun and Iran can get over it

How many of the people who live in that supposedly 2500 year old culture even know much of anything about it?

I doubt the average Iranian knows much about the history of Persia.

I have been reading this thread for a while now, and I just need to get this of my chest:
Cultures are not bound by rules, laws or anything. A culture can not 'have' or own any element. Cultures are not static, they change constantly. An element can appear in culture A, but once this element is picked up by culture B, it ceases to be an exclusive part of culture A. The element is just as much part of culture B as it is of A.
Take the tie, for example. The tie originated in Croatia. One day someone must have invented it, liked it, others liked it too and started to wear it, and so the tie became a part of Croatian culture. Then the tie was seen by the French, they liked it, started to wear it too and so the tie became a part of French culture. Then other Europeans saw what the French were doing, they liked it, started wearing it at as well and so the tie became a part of European culture. Other cultures saw what the Europeans were doing, liked it and also started to wear ties. So the tie became a part of general human culture. And this has happened with many, many things. Almost everything you use was once exclusive to the culture that invented it, but then spread to other cultures and thus stopped being exclusive, becoming a part of 'general' culture.
This has also happened with "black" music like jazz and rap. Jazz and rap were invented in the Afro-American culture, others heard it, liked it and also started using it. At that moment, jazz and rap ceased being exclusive to Afro-American culture. Jazz and rap are not "black" music, they are a part of the general human world culture. This is the way of cultures.
The idea that any one culture somehow can have more right to a certain element than other cultures is fething ******.

 Grey Templar wrote:


I doubt the average Iranian knows much about the history of Persia.

You'd be right in some cases, but Iran is pretty history conscious (at least for anything that happened before the 19th century. Starting around there the propaganda starts overriding the reality). The Babylonian Empire in particular. It's basically they're Roman Empire and they get pretty vocal about how awesome it was

 LordofHats wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Getting offended over an inaccurate portrayal of a culture that existed almost 2500 years ago would be a bit petty. It doesn't exist anymore.

In fact, I think getting offended over anything that happened more than 2 generations ago is a bit petty. The past is the past, move on.

That works for us Americans, cause we didn't have a culture 2500 years ago (as in a American-European culture). We're not even 300 years old yet.

But some countries have histories that go back thousands of years, so I think it's not that outlandish said countries would get offended about wildly inaccurate and negative presentations of their ancient ancestors.

That said. 300 was fething fun and Iran can get over it

You Americans did have a culture 2500 years ago, present day American culture is just a development of that culture. Cultures never start or cease to exist, they just change, by incorporating new elements and discarding old ones.

 Grey Templar wrote:
How many of the people who live in that supposedly 2500 year old culture even know much of anything about it?

I doubt the average Iranian knows much about the history of Persia.

One would assume Iranian children learn the history of their country in schools. The Acheamenid Empire is probably an important part of their lessons, seeing as it is an important part of Iranian history.

I'm not talking about that though. Americans view ourselves as distinct from Europe or the Native Americans. Yeah our ancestors go back thousands of years, but culturally we only recognize ourselves in a very modern sense. Our conceptual existence doesn't go back very far.

 easysauce wrote:
oh definitely, no argument there that the portrayals are often completely inaccurate historically.

But its all works of *fiction* and anyone who takes works of fiction seriously or expects historical accuracy has a serious problem. More over, someones fictional story is a work of *their* culture, not the cultures they might portray in their fictional medium.

It is not just a question of being historically inaccurate. It would not be a problem if the actual history/culture were well-known. The problem is when they are not, and the only contact many people had with them was that awfully twisted version, that will therefore give false ideas about it.

 easysauce wrote:
I discussed this article with some friends recently, at a party where it was about 20 black people, a few asians and two white guys. Everyone said the people bugging this poor girl were the actual racists, and very immature people at that.

Are you still on this? Nobody in this thread is arguing otherwise.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
300 was based on a highly stylised comic book.

Yeah, which was way better as it portrayed the story as two terrible, dystopian forces clashing together. The movie completely ruined everything by turning the Spartans into some kind of “American heroes”. That was the worst move ever.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Also, whilst we're on the subject of offensive media, I wonder what Iranian children's tv is like. I expect it's rather a lot like Palestinian children's tv. Iranians are no strangers to offensive racial stereotypes I expect.

Is that a genuine question, or is it just a rhetorical question based on biased preconceptions? Because if that is an actual question, I can find out for you. If I recall correctly, they did have a bunch of Japanese cartoons when my friend, who is now in her early thirties, was a child. The same we had in France.

 Grey Templar wrote:
I doubt the average Iranian knows much about the history of Persia.

I doubt you know much about the average Iran. Am I wrong here? Have you meet some of them? You do know they have schools in Iran, right?

US culture shares very little with the Native cultures that were here at the time or before. We have far more in common with British culture, and even that is a stretch.

We're a distinct culture that appeared roughly in the 1600s from an amalgamation of multiple European cultures as well as ideologies.

 LordofHats wrote:
Americans view ourselves as distinct from Europe

Which is a joke. The U.S.A. are a bunch of Europeans that crossed an ocean, and then never, ever cut ties, culturally, with the rest of Europe, along with some slaves from Africa whose culture was completely destroyed, and who had to create a new one that was therefore hugely inspired by their European masters. And a very few natives. Those do have a culture that is not European, I give you that.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
Americans view ourselves as distinct from Europe

Which is a joke. The U.S.A. are a bunch of Europeans that crossed an ocean, and then never, ever cut ties, culturally, with the rest of Europe, along with some slaves from Africa whose culture was completely destroyed, and who had to create a new one that was therefore hugely inspired by their European masters. And a very few natives. Those do have a culture that is not European, I give you that.

That's incredibly naive. Come over here and see for yourself. We share very little with Europeans.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Which is a joke.

I never said it made sense XD

But we do plenty of negative stereotyping of Europe ourselves because we see ourselves as separate, so if someone makes a film portraying our European ancestors as horrible, we really wouldn't get in much of an uproar about it in the same way Iran or China might get upset about similar portrayals of their own ancestors.

We spent 200 years culturally doing most of the same things Europeans do, while calling it something else, and lambasting those silly Europeans and their Imperialist ways Ignore the Philippines. Nothing to see there. We weren't Imperialist, we were spreading freedom!

 Grey Templar wrote:
That's incredibly naive. Come over here and see for yourself. We share very little with Europeans.

Come see over here. Please, do not forget to not stop at visiting just ONE country, though. Because, as incredible as it might sound, we do have cultural differences between European countries. And you might discover that the UK can be closer to the US than to some other European countries in tons of aspects. Europe is diverse. The U.S.A. are basically just one of the many, many aspects of this diversity .

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
Americans view ourselves as distinct from Europe

Which is a joke. The U.S.A. are a bunch of Europeans that crossed an ocean, and then never, ever cut ties, culturally, with the rest of Europe, along with some slaves from Africa whose culture was completely destroyed, and who had to create a new one that was therefore hugely inspired by their European masters. And a very few natives. Those do have a culture that is not European, I give you that.

Your understanding of the US and its culture is a bit lacking.

If we were so similar, why do you guys spend so much time slamming on us? *rolls eyes*

 LordofHats wrote:
I'm not talking about that though. Americans view ourselves as distinct from Europe or the Native Americans. Yeah our ancestors go back thousands of years, but culturally we only recognize ourselves in a very modern sense. Our conceptual existence doesn't go back very far.

That's because if you go back only a little bit you get the near genocide of the native Americans. Kind of hard to go by that, it's meant America needed to create their founding fathers myth to block it from the nations sub conscious. I love America but your right some historical reality wouldn't be a bad idea. Old adage of understanding history to deal with today. The myth hasn't done you any favours.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
That's incredibly naive. Come over here and see for yourself. We share very little with Europeans.

Come see over here. Please, do not forget to not stop at visiting just ONE country, though. Because, as incredible as it might sound, we do have cultural differences between European countries. And you might discover that the UK can be closer to the US than to some other European countries in tons of aspects. Europe is diverse. The U.S.A. are basically just one of the many, many aspects of this diversity .

I never said Europeans were the same. They have many differences between each other.

Knockagh wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
I'm not talking about that though. Americans view ourselves as distinct from Europe or the Native Americans. Yeah our ancestors go back thousands of years, but culturally we only recognize ourselves in a very modern sense. Our conceptual existence doesn't go back very far.

That's because if you go back only a little bit you get the near genocide of the native Americans. Kind of hard to go by that, it's meant America needed to create their founding fathers myth to block it from the nations sub conscious. I love America but your right some historical reality wouldn't be a bad idea. Old adage of understanding history to deal with today. The myth hasn't done you any favours.

The "near genocide" was caused by disease that was just a natural by-product of contact. Even if the best of intentions were meant, the same thing would have happened.

What occured in the 1800s was hardly genocide. The majority of the damage was caused by the Spanish, French, British, et al.

 djones520 wrote:
Your understanding of the US and its culture is a bit lacking.

Maybe your understanding of European cultures is lacking.

 djones520 wrote:
If we were so similar, why do you guys spend so much time slamming on us? *rolls eyes*

Is that a real question? Because it is always like this! Put two people with largely similar views, and they will argue to death over their small differences, sometime way, way more vehemently that if they had completely different worldviews.