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I have an idea:

Play his game.

When he says your Riptide is a walker, say yes indeed he is. He also has a 4+ invulnerable save by default and his nova reactor bumps it to 2+ and you overheat your reactor only on a 1.

Your Tau pathfinders have 4+ armor saves, Darkstrider has another optional special rule which gives +1 to the strength of your pulse rifles and removing 3 markerlight tokens placed on a unit voids their armor saves.

Lets see how long till he gives up his little game.

Apart from being old and stubborn, is there anything else to know about this guy? Is he friends with key people at the store? Is he a big, scary guy? Is there anything (other than the feeling of being rude) that keeps people from banding together and letting him know that he's the least fun person in the area to play against?

Remember...he's the one that's cheating and being rude first...feel free to let him know how un-fun spending time across the table from him is. If he still doesn't take a look in the mirror after enough people tell him that, then just quit playing him...

 Voidwraith wrote:
Apart from being old and stubborn, is there anything else to know about this guy? Is he friends with key people at the store? Is he a big, scary guy? Is there anything (other than the feeling of being rude) that keeps people from banding together and letting him know that he's the least fun person in the area to play against?

Remember...he's the one that's cheating and being rude first...feel free to let him know how un-fun spending time across the table from him is. If he still doesn't take a look in the mirror after enough people tell him that, then just quit playing him...

I don't think he's cheating, he's just ignorant and too stubborn to be told otherwise. I regularly tell him when he's wrong and if he's not gaming at the time he'll spend half an hour flicking through the rule book to prove me wrong. The latest example of this was when he tried to claim that if a model had skyfire and interceptor together, like on a quad gun, it could shoot at non-flyer/skimmer targets normally.

He's pleasant enough to talk to when he's not gaming. The manager at the store doesn't question it, he's just looking to set people up with games and help people enjoy the hobby afterall. This guy's not big and scary, he's a little, grey haired, sweat pants wearing 50 or 60 year old who spends most of his time watching other people game and trying to come up with power lists for the latest army to see if they're worth adding to his collection. I've never heard him discuss the fluff, he usually only talks about which armies/models he thinks are viable/cost effective.

I just think he comes across as too stubborn, ignorant and uncaring of what other people think for people to attempt to talk to him.

Taffy17 wrote:


I don't think he's cheating, he's just ignorant and too stubborn to be told otherwise.

Running over the points limit (without permission), trying to play vehicles as MCs / GMCs, and refusing to tell you what units he's using / what is in reverse / look at his list is cheating.

Don't play him, or if you do, call him on cheating every time. If he refuses to accept it, show him the rulebook, get a neutral third party, and pack up mid game if he continues to cheat. Games take too much preparation to be wasted on TFGs like him.

Using Apocalypse Formations in a non-Apocalypse game is also illegal.

Wow, just wow.
i didn't think people like this existed outside of hyperbole.
so there's a technique called 'cutting at the edges' - long story short, people are always more likely to do something you say if you make it sound like everybody else thinks that way and that you are just a kindly messenger. kinda tapping into 'herd mentality'.

"you would win the respect of [insert group] if you did this..."
"we all think that's the coolest thing, you should buy it.."
etc etc

i pity 'that guy' imagine not realizing that everybody hated you the whole time you've been somewhere and then having that all revealed to you in public..
but i pity the poor dude who suffers their bu[|$¬!+ more...

 jreilly89 wrote:
Don't play him, or if you do, call him on cheating every time. If he refuses to accept it, show him the rulebook, get a neutral third party, and pack up mid game if he continues to cheat. Games take too much preparation to be wasted on TFGs like him.

Agreed. Let him get red faced and puffy when you call him out on each issue. A little public shame can work wonders in either fixing or eliminating TFG.

 grendel083 wrote:
Using Apocalypse Formations in a non-Apocalypse game is also illegal.

This 100% apocolypse is blurt to be over powered, that's why those formations exist.


They have additional rules for each type of formation and are more advanced than standard data slates...

Taffy17 wrote:
I don't think he's cheating, he's just ignorant and too stubborn to be told otherwise. I regularly tell him when he's wrong and if he's not gaming at the time he'll spend half an hour flicking through the rule book to prove me wrong. The latest example of this was when he tried to claim that if a model had skyfire and interceptor together, like on a quad gun, it could shoot at non-flyer/skimmer targets normally.

That was at least true in 6th edition.

But coming in severely over the points limit and attempting to use the GC rules for a Walker (or vice versa) is demonstrably cheating.

rigeld2 wrote:

 dementedwombat wrote:
I'm waiting for Peregrine to come in and say how we shouldn't be depriving this guy of his idea of fun just because you want to play a bad army list.

If his only "crime" was bringing Knights at low points, there's nothing wrong.

This guy, however, actually cheats as well - which is a problem.

The is no cheating in w40k. the rule book stats that players can change the rules anywhere they want. check. That if two players can't decide on a ruling or find it in a rulebook, and how would they if the rule was made up on the spot, they should roll for it.

But then again I think that something like the game OP had, happens if a community decides that unbound is ok. One can not play "that guy", but why keep the unbound rule then, if it and not the people are the source of the problem.

Makumba wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 dementedwombat wrote:
I'm waiting for Peregrine to come in and say how we shouldn't be depriving this guy of his idea of fun just because you want to play a bad army list.

If his only "crime" was bringing Knights at low points, there's nothing wrong.

This guy, however, actually cheats as well - which is a problem.

The is no cheating in w40k. the rule book stats that players can change the rules anywhere they want. check. That if two players can't decide on a ruling or find it in a rulebook, and how would they if the rule was made up on the spot, they should roll for it.

But then again I think that something like the game OP had, happens if a community decides that unbound is ok. One can not play "that guy", but why keep the unbound rule then, if it and not the people are the source of the problem.

Makumba, There is a big difference between mutually agreeing to some house rules and making stuff up and doing whatever you fancy on the spot... The former is changing the rules, the latter is cheating. Grown up, mature people do the former...

Problem is 40k promotes this type of player and waac players and geanral abouse of the game

zilka86 wrote:
Problem is 40k promotes this type of player and waac players and geanral abouse of the game

Still pounding out that same old line, eh zilka? Do you ever learn?

Makumba wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 dementedwombat wrote:
I'm waiting for Peregrine to come in and say how we shouldn't be depriving this guy of his idea of fun just because you want to play a bad army list.

If his only "crime" was bringing Knights at low points, there's nothing wrong.

This guy, however, actually cheats as well - which is a problem.

The is no cheating in w40k. the rule book stats that players can change the rules anywhere they want.

Incorrect. The rules in 40k say, and I'll quote them so you know I'm not making things up:

Usually, both players will use the same points limit, but this does not need to be the case and is entirely up to you.

It was obvious from the post that the points limit was 500 points. And equally obvious that this person went over that limit - which means he broke the rules. Breaking the rules is cheating.
In addition, I'd love for your to find justification for pretending a walker is a monstrous creature. Especially when only one player decided that. roll for it.

But then again I think that something like the game OP had, happens if a community decides that unbound is ok. One can not play "that guy", but why keep the unbound rule then, if it and not the people are the source of the problem.

The games had literally nothing to do with Unbound. It was not the source of the problem.

I enjoy the challenge myself. If you know what he is like why would you tell him what you are taking other than maybe the race.

I remember playing against Cardiffs TFG back in the day he used to carry all the rulebooks around with him but would never pull one out when you told him a rule would just deny it, also made me take a terror test for my frenzied chaos lord on a chariot as the juggernaughts pulling the chariot weren't frenzied.

When i still killed his lich in cc and his army crumbled it was very funny and left me with a warm fuzzy feeling inside!

Do like me; Grab your stomach, begins to twist and turn on your feet, all the while saying loud enough (or yelling for more effect) "CALL AN AMBULANCE!! I'M HAVING A ALLERGIC REACTION TO 'isert his name here' 'S LIST! MY INTOLERATE TO LACTOSE CANNOT STAND THAT MUCH CHEESE!"

Then if he doens't get it, draw him a picture, or just pack your things and say GG.

Seriously, I enver met anyone who plays unbound, mostly to NOT too the objective secure Troops gets..but that feels too much unbound, even for me; an extra heavy support ok, but a list that makes no sence? no..

TFG at my FLGS runs an all kroot tau list, and has made his own all kroot codex. he rules lawyers when he isn't winning, and calls every other list super cheesy. that and he butts in other peoples games with rules corrections that half the time are wrong. in summary, feth that guy.

 Brennonjw wrote:
TFG at my FLGS runs an all kroot tau list, and has made his own all kroot codex. he rules lawyers when he isn't winning, and calls every other list super cheesy. that and he butts in other peoples games with rules corrections that half the time are wrong. in summary, feth that guy.

Take 2 or 3 Land Raiders and watch him cry when he can't hurt them

The groups I play, Unbound in general has this "amateurish" stigma to it. You´re basically considered a newbie/just derping around for fun if you play Unbound.

To be honest I find it´s great that it´s so, as in my opinion Unbound shouldn´t have been added to the game. I am also glad it seems that it hasn´t really taken hold pretty much anywhere as a common way to play.

I think Unbound is fine and allows for a lot of fun lists. Seriously, as long as you're not running all Riptides or something, Unbound can be a lot of fun, i.e. tons of Grotz

Point of unbound is to brake the game. Gw did so people can be tfg and waac players and ther list is leagal my last game i used 5wk and 8ws no troops that's it gw wants to promote power gaming so all play along with there new ideas

zilka86 wrote:
Point of unbound is to brake the game. Gw did so people can be tfg and waac players and ther list is leagal my last game i used 5wk and 8ws no troops that's it gw wants to promote power gaming so all play along with there new ideas

You are so wrong its not even funny.

Also work on that spelling fella its not like you are in a race to post something.

How can i be wrong

The intention (point) of unbound is to be able to play with your "collection" without that pesky Force org. This is paraphrasing the WD article when it was first introduced.

You are free to say it allows for "some" people to "abuse" it but the game is already abusable without unbound.

Yes it was abused before but with gw say unbound is a legal way to play they are promoting more abuse of the game

zilka86 wrote:
Yes it was abused before but with gw say unbound is a legal way to play they are promoting more abuse of the game

Only if you choose to.

There are other ways to play.

zilka86 wrote:
Yes it was abused before but with gw say unbound is a legal way to play they are promoting more abuse of the game

How have you extrapolated that the ability to abuse is the same as the intention of unbound?

 dementedwombat wrote:
I'm waiting for Peregrine to come in and say how we shouldn't be depriving this guy of his idea of fun just because you want to play a bad army list.

Exalted!

zilka86 wrote:
Yes it was abused before but with gw say unbound is a legal way to play they are promoting more abuse of the game

This only works if you assume GW know or care about competitive play, they have said repeatidly that this to them is a game to forge a narrative, to tell a story. A story about eight wraithknights just stomping Ork boys lacks depth, character and largely isnt a fun way to play, it goes against the core theme of unbound. Unbound is a sandbox, dont blame the maker because someone throws sand in your face every now and then.