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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/23 16:38:53
Subject: Is the Tyranid Prime a complete failure?
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Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren
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Seriously - I cannot begin to understand how to use this unit.
Sure, he has a statline better than most SM Chapter Masters, but 1) has no way of reaching cc quickly, 2) he costs a lot of points, 3) his weapons do not ignore armor saves (gotta take upgrades that cost even more points), 4) he has no invulnerable save, 5) his great ability is merely making a unit of tyranid warriors or shrikes (seriously? why shrikes - he cant have wings) he joins use his WS and BS instead. Shooting aint so good since most of it is 18" except the blast markers but they dont benefit much from +1BS. And for better WS: warriors kitted out for cc are hideously expensive unless you take them barebones and give them two sets of scything talons just for more attacks. They still lack an effective delivery method.
Now consider this: add 40 points and you can get a Hive Tyrant instead of the Prime, who has +1S, +1T, +1W, +2WS, ignores armor saves by default for being an MC, has all the other MC bonuses as well like HoW, Fear etc.; can take wings to reach cc fast, or a resilient tyrant guard, or nice ranged weaponry to dish out the pain, and is also a ML2 psyker.
Why bother with the Prime?
The only gimmick I can see is that unlike other Tyranid HQs, he is a non-MC IC, so you can stick him to a unit of 30 hormagaunts and if they tunnel out of a hole a Trygon left, I doubt any enemy will be able to decimate them with enough ranged firepower since they cant be sent running and then you'll reach cc.
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This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2015/01/24 04:43:43
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/23 16:41:59
Subject: Re:Is the Tyranid Prime a complete failure?
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
Mexico
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Yes, that is what happens when you double the cost of a unit for no good reason.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/23 17:20:56
Subject: Re:Is the Tyranid Prime a complete failure?
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Infiltrating Broodlord
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Short answer. Yes, it's a complete failure
Long answer. It's not a winged double devourer tyrant.
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Looking for Durham Region gamers in Ontario Canada, send me a PM!
See my gallery for Chapterhouse's Tervigon, fully painted.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/23 17:31:53
Subject: Is the Tyranid Prime a complete failure?
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Sneaky Lictor
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I've used the Prime quite a few times, and I'm comfortable saying that it is generally a waste of points.
That being said, if you are going to run one, the right way to run it is embedded in a unit of gaunts, possibly in a Tyrannocyte. A tyranid prime with a unit of 17 devilgaunts can be pretty threatening when dropped in an enemy's backfield, as the Prime can serve to "discourage" the type of light counter-assault elements that most folks put in their backfield. I would give it LW+BS and scything talons, along with flesh hooks and possibly toxin sacs, if you are considering running one. The Maw Claws are also legit, as you can use it to give the Devilgaunts preferred enemy, but then you are getting really expensive on a unit that is already overcosted.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/23 17:45:13
Subject: Is the Tyranid Prime a complete failure?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Cheyenne WY
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Sir Arun wrote:Seriously - I cannot begin to understand how to use this unit.
Sure, he has a statline better than most SM Chapter Masters, but 1) has no way of reaching cc quickly, 2) he costs a lot of points, 3) his weapons do not ignore armor saves (gotta take upgrades that cost even more points), 4) he has no invulnerable save, 5) his great ability is merely making a unit of tyranid warriors or shrikes (seriously? why shrikes - he cant have wings) he joins use his WS and BS instead. Shooting aint so good since most of it is 18" except the blast markers but they dont benefit much from +1BS. And for better WS: warriors kitted out for cc are hideously expensive unless you take them barebones and give them two sets of scything talons just for more attacks. They still lack an effective delivery method.
Now consider this: add 40 points and you can get a Hive Tyrant instead of the Prime, who has +1S, +1T, +1W, +2WS, can take wings to reach cc fast, or a resilient tyrant guard, or nice ranged weaponry to dish out the pain, and is also a ML2 psyker.
Why bother with the Prime?
Yeah, I used to use Prime, back when they were cheap...It just is massively overpriced as currently built.  Maybe if it came with Lash whip, and Bone sword, and a Deathspitter..  But maybe not even then...the last thing a swarm army needs is overpriced leadership.
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The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/23 18:21:59
Subject: Is the Tyranid Prime a complete failure?
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Sinewy Scourge
Commoragh (closer to the bottom)
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If you are set on using him.....You can either DS him in the new drop pod the nids have, or have them come in through the tunnel the mawlock leaves behind. put him in a squad of warriors if you havent already
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Wyzilla wrote:Saying the Eldar won the War in Heaven is like saying a child won a fight with a murderer simply because after breaking into his house, shooting his mother and father through the head, the thug took off in a car instead of finishing off the kid.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/23 18:35:36
Subject: Is the Tyranid Prime a complete failure?
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Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter
Grand Rapids Metro
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They just need wings or a 2+ to be worth it...but no...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/23 18:40:33
Subject: Is the Tyranid Prime a complete failure?
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Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian
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With the last dex, a nid player I play used to run 1 or 2 in units of gaunts for hard to dislodge synapse. Usually with boneswords, ts and ags for a really hard hitting close combat monster (for its points). They could take most things in challenges. Made the gaunts scary to face in combat. Being an IC really helped it.
Now that it costs silly points, boneswords are not as good, and flyrants (or just tyrants) are just so damn better, I have not seen one since. Ever.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/23 18:41:20
Subject: Is the Tyranid Prime a complete failure?
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Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter
Grand Rapids Metro
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...I miss Parasite too.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 0009/02/10 12:41:56
Subject: Is the Tyranid Prime a complete failure?
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Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought
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What the  ? Why is a Tyranid Prime horrible? Why is it a complete waste?
A friend of mine is currently building a Tyranid Prime with boneswords and rending claws. It also has adrenal glands.
Please PM me with what makes a Tyranid Prime horrible or a complete waste.
In 5th ed, it is worth 80 points, compared to a measly 30 for regular warriors.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/23 18:42:23
INSANE army lists still available!!!! Now being written in 8th edition format! I have Index Imperium 1, Index Imperium 2, Index Xenos 2, Codex Orks Codex Tyranids, Codex Blood Angels and Codex Space Marines!
PM me for an INSANE (100K+ points) if you desire.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/23 18:49:37
Subject: Is the Tyranid Prime a complete failure?
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Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter
Grand Rapids Metro
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KaptinBadrukk wrote:What the  ? Why is a Tyranid Prime horrible? Why is it a complete waste?
A friend of mine is currently building a Tyranid Prime with boneswords and rending claws. It also has adrenal glands.
Please PM me with what makes a Tyranid Prime horrible or a complete waste.
In 5th ed, it is worth 80 points, compared to a measly 30 for regular warriors.
Had to check to ensure I wasn't reading an old 5th edition age post.
I also used them all the time in 5th Ed, usually put regen on him and threw him into Carnifex Squads or with Armored Shell, Triple Guard Walkrants...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 1500/01/23 18:50:55
Subject: Is the Tyranid Prime a complete failure?
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The Hive Mind
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KaptinBadrukk wrote:What the  ? Why is a Tyranid Prime horrible? Why is it a complete waste?
A friend of mine is currently building a Tyranid Prime with boneswords and rending claws. It also has adrenal glands.
Please PM me with what makes a Tyranid Prime horrible or a complete waste.
In 5th ed, it is worth 80 points, compared to a measly 30 for regular warriors.
Because that build in the newest codex is 165 points. It was a good option in the old codex. It's useless (compared to other HQs) in this one.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/23 18:51:40
Subject: Is the Tyranid Prime a complete failure?
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Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought
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rigeld2 wrote: KaptinBadrukk wrote:What the  ? Why is a Tyranid Prime horrible? Why is it a complete waste?
A friend of mine is currently building a Tyranid Prime with boneswords and rending claws. It also has adrenal glands.
Please PM me with what makes a Tyranid Prime horrible or a complete waste.
In 5th ed, it is worth 80 points, compared to a measly 30 for regular warriors.
Because that build in the newest codex is 165 points. It was a good option in the old codex. It's useless (compared to other HQs) in this one.
What, 165?!?!?!?!? There's no way that can be right, can it?
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INSANE army lists still available!!!! Now being written in 8th edition format! I have Index Imperium 1, Index Imperium 2, Index Xenos 2, Codex Orks Codex Tyranids, Codex Blood Angels and Codex Space Marines!
PM me for an INSANE (100K+ points) if you desire.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/23 18:57:04
Subject: Is the Tyranid Prime a complete failure?
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The Hive Mind
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KaptinBadrukk wrote:rigeld2 wrote: KaptinBadrukk wrote:What the  ? Why is a Tyranid Prime horrible? Why is it a complete waste?
A friend of mine is currently building a Tyranid Prime with boneswords and rending claws. It also has adrenal glands.
Please PM me with what makes a Tyranid Prime horrible or a complete waste.
In 5th ed, it is worth 80 points, compared to a measly 30 for regular warriors.
Because that build in the newest codex is 165 points. It was a good option in the old codex. It's useless (compared to other HQs) in this one.
What, 165?!?!?!?!? There's no way that can be right, can it?
Sorry - 160. I added a lashwhip instead of boneswords because there's no reason not to pay 5 points for +3 initiative in CC.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/23 20:13:34
Subject: Is the Tyranid Prime a complete failure?
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Killer Klaivex
The dark behind the eyes.
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I honestly don't understand his pricing. In 5th, his cost was pretty perfect - he was a slow, beatstick HQ. Cheaper than our other HQs, but less killy and lacking psychic powers.
Now, he's barely any cheaper than other HQs, his weapons have been nerfed into the ground and he hasn't been compensated with even a single buff.
In addition, regeneration on him has tripled in price for no reason other than laziness "Dur, costing upgrades differently on different models is hard."
And, as a final slap in the face, boneswords are now AP3. Enjoy having a melee HQ with no AP2 weapons (whilst a Hive Tyrant can take nothing but guns and still gets 5 S6 AP2 attacks on the charge).
It's just depressing.
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blood reaper wrote:I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote:Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote:GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
Andilus Greatsword wrote:
"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"
Akiasura wrote:I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
insaniak wrote:
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/23 20:19:01
Subject: Is the Tyranid Prime a complete failure?
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Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian
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You're basically paying ~60/75pts for IC status. Which is... daft.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/23 20:26:44
Subject: Is the Tyranid Prime a complete failure?
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Auspicious Skink Shaman
Louth, Ireland
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Wait until they release a new overpriced model for it, then it will get the stat boost it needs!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/23 20:37:38
Subject: Is the Tyranid Prime a complete failure?
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Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought
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rigeld2 wrote: KaptinBadrukk wrote:rigeld2 wrote: KaptinBadrukk wrote:What the  ? Why is a Tyranid Prime horrible? Why is it a complete waste?
A friend of mine is currently building a Tyranid Prime with boneswords and rending claws. It also has adrenal glands.
Please PM me with what makes a Tyranid Prime horrible or a complete waste.
In 5th ed, it is worth 80 points, compared to a measly 30 for regular warriors.
Because that build in the newest codex is 165 points. It was a good option in the old codex. It's useless (compared to other HQs) in this one.
What, 165?!?!?!?!? There's no way that can be right, can it?
Sorry - 160. I added a lashwhip instead of boneswords because there's no reason not to pay 5 points for +3 initiative in CC.
ok. But 160 still is too much, unless you added upgrades you are not telling me about.
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INSANE army lists still available!!!! Now being written in 8th edition format! I have Index Imperium 1, Index Imperium 2, Index Xenos 2, Codex Orks Codex Tyranids, Codex Blood Angels and Codex Space Marines!
PM me for an INSANE (100K+ points) if you desire.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/23 20:46:22
Subject: Is the Tyranid Prime a complete failure?
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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KaptinBadrukk wrote:rigeld2 wrote: KaptinBadrukk wrote:rigeld2 wrote: KaptinBadrukk wrote:What the  ? Why is a Tyranid Prime horrible? Why is it a complete waste?
A friend of mine is currently building a Tyranid Prime with boneswords and rending claws. It also has adrenal glands.
Please PM me with what makes a Tyranid Prime horrible or a complete waste.
In 5th ed, it is worth 80 points, compared to a measly 30 for regular warriors.
Because that build in the newest codex is 165 points. It was a good option in the old codex. It's useless (compared to other HQs) in this one.
What, 165?!?!?!?!? There's no way that can be right, can it?
Sorry - 160. I added a lashwhip instead of boneswords because there's no reason not to pay 5 points for +3 initiative in CC.
ok. But 160 still is too much, unless you added upgrades you are not telling me about.
You realize the Prime went up about 40 points base, right?
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Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/23 20:47:59
Subject: Is the Tyranid Prime a complete failure?
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Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought
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Happyjew wrote: KaptinBadrukk wrote:rigeld2 wrote: KaptinBadrukk wrote:rigeld2 wrote: KaptinBadrukk wrote:What the  ? Why is a Tyranid Prime horrible? Why is it a complete waste?
A friend of mine is currently building a Tyranid Prime with boneswords and rending claws. It also has adrenal glands.
Please PM me with what makes a Tyranid Prime horrible or a complete waste.
In 5th ed, it is worth 80 points, compared to a measly 30 for regular warriors.
Because that build in the newest codex is 165 points. It was a good option in the old codex. It's useless (compared to other HQs) in this one.
What, 165?!?!?!?!? There's no way that can be right, can it?
Sorry - 160. I added a lashwhip instead of boneswords because there's no reason not to pay 5 points for +3 initiative in CC.
ok. But 160 still is too much, unless you added upgrades you are not telling me about.
You realize the Prime went up about 40 points base, right?
Matter of fact, I didn't. I play 5th edition, so I didn't kow. But seriously, why the  did they make a tyranid prime worthless in the newest edition?
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INSANE army lists still available!!!! Now being written in 8th edition format! I have Index Imperium 1, Index Imperium 2, Index Xenos 2, Codex Orks Codex Tyranids, Codex Blood Angels and Codex Space Marines!
PM me for an INSANE (100K+ points) if you desire.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/23 20:50:00
Subject: Is the Tyranid Prime a complete failure?
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
Mexico
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Yes, that is what they have been telling you.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/23 20:52:46
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/23 20:51:33
Subject: Is the Tyranid Prime a complete failure?
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Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought
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INSANE army lists still available!!!! Now being written in 8th edition format! I have Index Imperium 1, Index Imperium 2, Index Xenos 2, Codex Orks Codex Tyranids, Codex Blood Angels and Codex Space Marines!
PM me for an INSANE (100K+ points) if you desire.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/23 20:54:22
Subject: Is the Tyranid Prime a complete failure?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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It's best to keep it cheap and for low point games (around 500). Anymore than that and you have to ask yourself why you're taking the Prime over the best unit in the Codex.
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YMDC = nightmare |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/23 22:09:33
Subject: Is the Tyranid Prime a complete failure?
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The Hive Mind
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Even at 500 points, the Tyrant is a better buy in pretty much every situation.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/23 22:14:20
Subject: Is the Tyranid Prime a complete failure?
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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Frozocrone wrote:It's best to keep it cheap and for low point games (around 500). Anymore than that and you have to ask yourself why you're taking the Prime over the best unit in the Codex.
yeah thats my gut feeling, the Prime is mostly intended as an HQ for small games. now as for the reason it's cost has been jacked up so much, the cynical answer is "because a hive tyrant costs more"
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/23 22:33:17
Subject: Is the Tyranid Prime a complete failure?
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Killer Klaivex
The dark behind the eyes.
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Even then, I don't see the appeal.
It's far too expensive for a "cheap" HQ, to the point where you'll always want to just pay a bit more and get an HQ who can pull his weight.
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blood reaper wrote:I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote:Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote:GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
Andilus Greatsword wrote:
"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"
Akiasura wrote:I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
insaniak wrote:
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/23 22:52:43
Subject: Is the Tyranid Prime a complete failure?
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Sneaky Lictor
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vipoid wrote:
Even then, I don't see the appeal.
It's far too expensive for a "cheap" HQ, to the point where you'll always want to just pay a bit more and get an HQ who can pull his weight.
Yep, it's strictly in the "just for fun" pile, along with Raveners and Genestealers. Like I said earlier, I've used it a few times in the last few months, but it never does anything worth mentioning. I've got a pretty sweet conversion using the leftover Prime bits from the Warrior box and a Second Edition Warrior, which is the main reason I use it at all. Shame to let a nice model collect dust, after all!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/23 23:22:52
Subject: Is the Tyranid Prime a complete failure?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Yeah the problem with the prime is the cost.
Its not bad, but when you look at the cost and consider for not much more you could have a winged hive tyrant...you wonder why you are taking a prime at all.
If you want some non MCs that are an assault threat the better option is usually a broodlord. For 5 pts more than the cost of a un-upgraded prime you can get 5 genestealers+1 broodlord.
comes into the game with infiltratem is a psyker and is significantly better in assault offensively than a base prime. It does have a 4+ save instead of a 3+.
But then you look at a hive tyrant and say "hey I could just get a hive tyrant instead of either of those"
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/24 01:37:50
Subject: Re:Is the Tyranid Prime a complete failure?
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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I'm planning on running a 5 man warrior squad so I might just make a Prime just to paint it up nice looking.
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/24 10:33:48
Subject: Is the Tyranid Prime a complete failure?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Moscow, Russia
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Isn't the cost increased because he is a force multiplier for his squad, and therefore you are paying for +1 WS and +1 BS for many units? Automatically Appended Next Post: He increases the squad's ranged damage output by IIRC 33%, which means that if you have 9 warriors that's an increase in damage output equivalent to 3 more warriors. assuming they all have deathspitters. Which is 120 points, right?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/24 10:40:29
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