Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2015/01/25 14:38:53
Subject: Re:Why wasn't the EMPRAH put in a Dreadnought?
deadmeat85 wrote: This question was already asked and answered by the Big E himself.
Skip to about 12:20 or just watch the whole thing.
Just what I've been saying in this thread. Emps is needed at the golden throne to keep the barriers of the webway from totally collapsing.
That was why Malcador sat on the throne when Emperor went to beat Horus. The throne was meant for 2 people: The Emperor himself, and Magnus (who would have sat at the throne, powering the human webway).
2015/01/25 15:56:24
Subject: Why wasn't the EMPRAH put in a Dreadnought?
I'd open a daemon gate inside of the Imperial Palace if I was in Magnus' stead and knew the Emperor's plan to use me as a battery.(I know he didn't know that)
"Why? It is as I have already said, We knew from the beginning we could not stand, But it did not matter, 'Iron Within, Iron Without'. We made them pay".
2015/01/26 19:23:19
Subject: Why wasn't the EMPRAH put in a Dreadnought?
Khonsu wrote: I'd open a daemon gate inside of the Imperial Palace if I was in Magnus' stead and knew the Emperor's plan to use me as a battery.(I know he didn't know that)
It was actually hinted that he knew about it and was okay with that. Can't remember source now... (a HH book)
2015/01/27 19:25:41
Subject: Why wasn't the EMPRAH put in a Dreadnought?
Khonsu wrote: I'd open a daemon gate inside of the Imperial Palace if I was in Magnus' stead and knew the Emperor's plan to use me as a battery.(I know he didn't know that)
You do realize that Magnus would be Psychically managing the Web way even as he powered it and the Astronomicon. Basically, Magnus would have had massive power as the guy in charge of transportation.
To quote a fictional character... "Let's make this fun!"
Tactical_Spam wrote: There was a story in the SM omnibus where a single kroot killed 2-3 marines then ate their gene seed and became a Kroot-startes.
We must all join the Kroot-startes...
2015/01/28 17:44:19
Subject: Why wasn't the EMPRAH put in a Dreadnought?
I disagree that humanity can't make something happen simply through faith. Ask the Ecclesiarchy. Hate them if you wish, but they CAN perform miracles - and do.
Even the Eldar agree that the Emperor is one of the most powerful beings in the Warp; he has his own Ioun stone for heaven's sake. Remember, the Warp reflects the unconscious desires of the sentient beings of the Universe. Though fading, Humanity remains the dominant force in the galaxy.
The Emperor, a being who denied divinity in his lifetime and was clearly, violently and fanatically opposed to all religion has become a God through the collective belief of humankind. Clearly this was NOT his first choice of how to spend eternity. I believe it was imposed on him by the collective desire of the human race. Humans of extraordinary faith can perform miracles in the name of said atheist (da Emprah).
Humanity's faith is certainly not the same as the Orky psycho-telekinetic gestalt that creates the Waaagh and makes non-functional mechanical constructs work somehow. Still, it's clear that Humanity can perform some pretty amazing feats on behalf of a being who decidedly doesn't want their worship.
I'd call that 'making things happen by wishing for it hard enough'.
My two teef.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/01/28 18:09:54
2015/01/28 18:19:42
Subject: Why wasn't the EMPRAH put in a Dreadnought?
Khonsu wrote: I'd open a daemon gate inside of the Imperial Palace if I was in Magnus' stead and knew the Emperor's plan to use me as a battery.(I know he didn't know that)
You do realize that Magnus would be Psychically managing the Web way even as he powered it and the Astronomicon. Basically, Magnus would have had massive power as the guy in charge of transportation.
If Magnus hadn't broken the Emperor's webway there shouldn't have been any need for anyone to power it. Strictly speaking, if the human webway had been successfully completed then they wouldn't have had any need for someone to power the Astronomicon from the Golden Throne either. I suspect Magnus being told of the Emperor's plans to use him as a battery was actually just more Chaos lies. I mean, it was Tzeentch that showed him wasn't it?
2015/01/28 18:55:39
Subject: Why wasn't the EMPRAH put in a Dreadnought?
On a separate note, The Emperor was installed in the Golden Throne to sustain his physical form, maintain the Astronomican and keep the crashed Web Portal sealed (Thanks, Magnus!). I see several problems with removing him to put him in a Dreadnought/Titan/whatever.
No dreadnought or titan suitable for the Emperor's Internment was available when the Emperor fell. No garden variety war machine would do for the Master of Mankind. Terra was a wreck from the siege, so it would take time to construct a suitable edifice. Besides, the Emperor was mortally wounded; they needed to install him in something quickly, and the Throne was available (Malcador having recently relinquished the post).
The Emperor was still capable of communication at the time of his internment. Apparently he gave Dorn final instructions. It's logical to assume he was the one who directed that he be placed into the Throne. Would you want to be the Imperial who defied the Emperor's expressed wishes?
No mortal could withstand the roiling energies of the Throne. Malcador was only installed in the thing for a short time and he turned to dust on being released. Yet Malcador was the most powerful human psyker who ever lived! Without the Emperor (or maybe Magnus) on the hotseat bad things were going to happen. 1The daily Psyker sacrifices haven't been enough to keep the Astronomican running without a hitch; the psyker sacrifice rate has been steadily rising. The Emperor hasn't turned to dust after 10,000 years in the thing. Apparently something is still going on that there corpse.
Even in the 31st Millennium the Throne's functions were imperfectly understood. Making modifications to badly understood technology while in operation is dangerous. While Dorn and the Mechanicum apparently made modifications to the Throne's life support elements, converting it into some kind of titan would be... well, pretty much insane.
Assuming you COULD build a suitable war machine, what would you gain from an Emperor-run Titan that you couldn't gain from a regular Titan? Well, assuming the Emperor doesn't need to focus his powers to maintain the Astronomican you'd have a frighteningly skilled, amazingly psychic Titan. In return you put the Emperor at risk of destruction. Bad trade. Better to keep him incarcerated, safe in the bowels of the Imperial Palace for 10,000+ years from a High Lords perspective.
The Golden Throne is immense, essentially immobile and linked into the machinery that feeds him psykers. I seriously doubt you could continue to feed the Emperor if he was installed in a war machine, regardless of how big it is
Even assuming the Emperor could maintain the Astronomican remotely - which he couldn't do when he was alive in the 31st Millennium - putting him in a war machine is a huge risk. If the Emperor was further damaged or destroyed, from my reading of the fluff the Astronomican would probably collapse. Oh, and Demons would come boiling through the damaged web portal into the guts of the Imperial palace.
Even assuming the Astronomican would NOT collapse if the Emperor was physically destroyed (which is unclear), no loyal Imperial would consider taking the risk. Even at the time of his incarceration in the Throne the Emperor was considered a God by some, and a uniquely, incredibly powerful being worthy of veneration by all. The Golden Throne was seen as the device best suited to preserve the Emperor. Even in the 31st Millennium removing him from the Throne would be tantamount to regicide/heresy.
That's a lot of text. My two teef.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/28 18:57:04
2015/01/29 22:58:06
Subject: Why wasn't the EMPRAH put in a Dreadnought?
Khonsu wrote: I'd open a daemon gate inside of the Imperial Palace if I was in Magnus' stead and knew the Emperor's plan to use me as a battery.(I know he didn't know that)
You do realize that Magnus would be Psychically managing the Web way even as he powered it and the Astronomicon. Basically, Magnus would have had massive power as the guy in charge of transportation.
If Magnus hadn't broken the Emperor's webway there shouldn't have been any need for anyone to power it. Strictly speaking, if the human webway had been successfully completed then they wouldn't have had any need for someone to power the Astronomicon from the Golden Throne either. I suspect Magnus being told of the Emperor's plans to use him as a battery was actually just more Chaos lies. I mean, it was Tzeentch that showed him wasn't it?
No, Emperor's plan was to have Magnus take his place at the Golden Throne in order to keep the psychic wards of the webway from collapsing. Magnus apparently knew about this, and accepted it. (In fact, he was honoured to do it.)
That's why Malcador was needed at the throne, when Emperor took the fight to Horus.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/29 22:58:29
2015/01/29 23:22:47
Subject: Why wasn't the EMPRAH put in a Dreadnought?
Khonsu wrote: I'd open a daemon gate inside of the Imperial Palace if I was in Magnus' stead and knew the Emperor's plan to use me as a battery.(I know he didn't know that)
You do realize that Magnus would be Psychically managing the Web way even as he powered it and the Astronomicon. Basically, Magnus would have had massive power as the guy in charge of transportation.
If Magnus hadn't broken the Emperor's webway there shouldn't have been any need for anyone to power it. Strictly speaking, if the human webway had been successfully completed then they wouldn't have had any need for someone to power the Astronomicon from the Golden Throne either. I suspect Magnus being told of the Emperor's plans to use him as a battery was actually just more Chaos lies. I mean, it was Tzeentch that showed him wasn't it?
No, Emperor's plan was to have Magnus take his place at the Golden Throne in order to keep the psychic wards of the webway from collapsing. Magnus apparently knew about this, and accepted it. (In fact, he was honoured to do it.)
That's why Malcador was needed at the throne, when Emperor took the fight to Horus.
But that was only true because Magnus broke through the webway while trying to warn the Emperor of Horus. Had Magnus not broken the webway, there would have been no need for someone to be on the Golden Throne at all times.
2015/01/29 23:26:25
Subject: Why wasn't the EMPRAH put in a Dreadnought?
Matthew wrote: why couldn't they just rebuild the Golden Throne into a Dreadnought Sarcophagus...
According to at least the older fluff, the mechanisms that sustain the throne take up an entire wing of the pallace. That's a lot of machinery to cram into a dreadnought.
2015/01/30 00:19:28
Subject: Why wasn't the EMPRAH put in a Dreadnought?
Matthew wrote: why couldn't they just rebuild the Golden Throne into a Dreadnought Sarcophagus...
According to at least the older fluff, the mechanisms that sustain the throne take up an entire wing of the pallace. That's a lot of machinery to cram into a dreadnought.
Khonsu wrote: I'd open a daemon gate inside of the Imperial Palace if I was in Magnus' stead and knew the Emperor's plan to use me as a battery.(I know he didn't know that)
You do realize that Magnus would be Psychically managing the Web way even as he powered it and the Astronomicon. Basically, Magnus would have had massive power as the guy in charge of transportation.
If Magnus hadn't broken the Emperor's webway there shouldn't have been any need for anyone to power it. Strictly speaking, if the human webway had been successfully completed then they wouldn't have had any need for someone to power the Astronomicon from the Golden Throne either. I suspect Magnus being told of the Emperor's plans to use him as a battery was actually just more Chaos lies. I mean, it was Tzeentch that showed him wasn't it?
No, Emperor's plan was to have Magnus take his place at the Golden Throne in order to keep the psychic wards of the webway from collapsing. Magnus apparently knew about this, and accepted it. (In fact, he was honoured to do it.)
That's why Malcador was needed at the throne, when Emperor took the fight to Horus.
Malcador was needed at the Throne to keep Daemons from pouring into the Palace, which wouldn't have been necessary had Magnus not tried to phone home. Notice how the Astronomican was still up when the Emperor was at the forefront leading the Great Crusade and nobody needed to be on the Golden Throne. How do you think that happened?
To quote a fictional character... "Let's make this fun!"
Tactical_Spam wrote: There was a story in the SM omnibus where a single kroot killed 2-3 marines then ate their gene seed and became a Kroot-startes.
We must all join the Kroot-startes...
2015/01/30 09:32:28
Subject: Why wasn't the EMPRAH put in a Dreadnought?
Orblivion wrote:But that was only true because Magnus broke through the webway while trying to warn the Emperor of Horus. Had Magnus not broken the webway, there would have been no need for someone to be on the Golden Throne at all times.
I just explained it. Emperor destined Magnus to take his place at the Golden Throne to keep the Imperial Webway from collapsing, freeing Imperium from use of psychers and warp travel, effectively starving out the chaos gods.
dusara217 wrote:Malcador was needed at the Throne to keep Daemons from pouring into the Palace, which wouldn't have been necessary had Magnus not tried to phone home. Notice how the Astronomican was still up when the Emperor was at the forefront leading the Great Crusade and nobody needed to be on the Golden Throne. How do you think that happened?
Dude, do you even read? I said the same thing. (Although I didn't mention the Astronomican)
2015/01/30 12:06:32
Subject: Why wasn't the EMPRAH put in a Dreadnought?
Orblivion wrote:But that was only true because Magnus broke through the webway while trying to warn the Emperor of Horus. Had Magnus not broken the webway, there would have been no need for someone to be on the Golden Throne at all times.
I just explained it. Emperor destined Magnus to take his place at the Golden Throne to keep the Imperial Webway from collapsing, freeing Imperium from use of psychers and warp travel, effectively starving out the chaos gods.
dusara217 wrote:Malcador was needed at the Throne to keep Daemons from pouring into the Palace, which wouldn't have been necessary had Magnus not tried to phone home. Notice how the Astronomican was still up when the Emperor was at the forefront leading the Great Crusade and nobody needed to be on the Golden Throne. How do you think that happened?
Dude, do you even read? I said the same thing. (Although I didn't mention the Astronomican)
My original point was that Magnus only "knew" about his role as a battery because of Chaos, and I think he was just flat out lied to. I don't think the Emperor's design for the webway required anyone to be on the Golden Throne at all.
2015/01/30 14:59:41
Subject: Why wasn't the EMPRAH put in a Dreadnought?
Orblivion wrote:But that was only true because Magnus broke through the webway while trying to warn the Emperor of Horus. Had Magnus not broken the webway, there would have been no need for someone to be on the Golden Throne at all times.
I just explained it. Emperor destined Magnus to take his place at the Golden Throne to keep the Imperial Webway from collapsing, freeing Imperium from use of psychers and warp travel, effectively starving out the chaos gods.
dusara217 wrote:Malcador was needed at the Throne to keep Daemons from pouring into the Palace, which wouldn't have been necessary had Magnus not tried to phone home. Notice how the Astronomican was still up when the Emperor was at the forefront leading the Great Crusade and nobody needed to be on the Golden Throne. How do you think that happened?
Dude, do you even read? I said the same thing. (Although I didn't mention the Astronomican)
My original point was that Magnus only "knew" about his role as a battery because of Chaos, and I think he was just flat out lied to. I don't think the Emperor's design for the webway required anyone to be on the Golden Throne at all.
No, webway was the very reason the Golden Throne was built in the first place. It channels the psychic energy to keep the webway from collapsing, and also functions as a life support, so you don't have to leave from it.
2015/01/30 15:02:18
Subject: Why wasn't the EMPRAH put in a Dreadnought?
Orblivion wrote:But that was only true because Magnus broke through the webway while trying to warn the Emperor of Horus. Had Magnus not broken the webway, there would have been no need for someone to be on the Golden Throne at all times.
I just explained it. Emperor destined Magnus to take his place at the Golden Throne to keep the Imperial Webway from collapsing, freeing Imperium from use of psychers and warp travel, effectively starving out the chaos gods.
dusara217 wrote:Malcador was needed at the Throne to keep Daemons from pouring into the Palace, which wouldn't have been necessary had Magnus not tried to phone home. Notice how the Astronomican was still up when the Emperor was at the forefront leading the Great Crusade and nobody needed to be on the Golden Throne. How do you think that happened?
Dude, do you even read? I said the same thing. (Although I didn't mention the Astronomican)
My original point was that Magnus only "knew" about his role as a battery because of Chaos, and I think he was just flat out lied to. I don't think the Emperor's design for the webway required anyone to be on the Golden Throne at all.
No, webway was the very reason the Golden Throne was built in the first place. It channels the psychic energy to keep the webway from collapsing, and also functions as a life support, so you don't have to leave from it.
It was only changed into life support after the Emperor was mortally wounded, that would imply that it didn't need someone sitting in it 24/7. This is also supported by the fact that the Emperor himself didn't need to stay in it all the time until Magnus broke it.
2015/01/30 15:40:46
Subject: Why wasn't the EMPRAH put in a Dreadnought?
Orblivion wrote:But that was only true because Magnus broke through the webway while trying to warn the Emperor of Horus. Had Magnus not broken the webway, there would have been no need for someone to be on the Golden Throne at all times.
I just explained it. Emperor destined Magnus to take his place at the Golden Throne to keep the Imperial Webway from collapsing, freeing Imperium from use of psychers and warp travel, effectively starving out the chaos gods.
dusara217 wrote:Malcador was needed at the Throne to keep Daemons from pouring into the Palace, which wouldn't have been necessary had Magnus not tried to phone home. Notice how the Astronomican was still up when the Emperor was at the forefront leading the Great Crusade and nobody needed to be on the Golden Throne. How do you think that happened?
Dude, do you even read? I said the same thing. (Although I didn't mention the Astronomican)
My original point was that Magnus only "knew" about his role as a battery because of Chaos, and I think he was just flat out lied to. I don't think the Emperor's design for the webway required anyone to be on the Golden Throne at all.
No, webway was the very reason the Golden Throne was built in the first place. It channels the psychic energy to keep the webway from collapsing, and also functions as a life support, so you don't have to leave from it.
It was only changed into life support after the Emperor was mortally wounded, that would imply that it didn't need someone sitting in it 24/7. This is also supported by the fact that the Emperor himself didn't need to stay in it all the time until Magnus broke it.
That's because the Webway wasn't fully operational. After the "phone call" by Magnus, Emperor needed to use the throne in order to prevent immense flood of daemons flowing through.
That's why Malcador was needed at the throne when Emperor teleported to Horus's ship. And that's why the Custodes are so busy ATM, because they need to contain the overflow from the webway.
2015/01/30 15:43:33
Subject: Why wasn't the EMPRAH put in a Dreadnought?
Yes, I know all of that. This isn't a fact-finding mission, I'm just giving my opinion on whether or not the Emperor REALLY intended for Magnus to be a battery, or if Chaos just lied to Magnus. I think he was lied to.
2015/01/30 15:45:20
Subject: Why wasn't the EMPRAH put in a Dreadnought?
Orblivion wrote:But that was only true because Magnus broke through the webway while trying to warn the Emperor of Horus. Had Magnus not broken the webway, there would have been no need for someone to be on the Golden Throne at all times.
I just explained it. Emperor destined Magnus to take his place at the Golden Throne to keep the Imperial Webway from collapsing, freeing Imperium from use of psychers and warp travel, effectively starving out the chaos gods.
dusara217 wrote:Malcador was needed at the Throne to keep Daemons from pouring into the Palace, which wouldn't have been necessary had Magnus not tried to phone home. Notice how the Astronomican was still up when the Emperor was at the forefront leading the Great Crusade and nobody needed to be on the Golden Throne. How do you think that happened?
Dude, do you even read? I said the same thing. (Although I didn't mention the Astronomican)
My original point was that Magnus only "knew" about his role as a battery because of Chaos, and I think he was just flat out lied to. I don't think the Emperor's design for the webway required anyone to be on the Golden Throne at all.
No, webway was the very reason the Golden Throne was built in the first place. It channels the psychic energy to keep the webway from collapsing, and also functions as a life support, so you don't have to leave from it.
It was only changed into life support after the Emperor was mortally wounded, that would imply that it didn't need someone sitting in it 24/7. This is also supported by the fact that the Emperor himself didn't need to stay in it all the time until Magnus broke it.
That's because the Webway wasn't fully operational. After the "phone call" by Magnus, Emperor needed to use the throne in order to prevent immense flood of daemons flowing through.
That's why Malcador was needed at the throne when Emperor teleported to Horus's ship. And that's why the Custodes are so busy ATM, because they need to contain the overflow from the webway.
You're kind of arguing against yourself, here. The only reason that there needs to be someone on the Golden Throne is to prevent daemons from flooding into the Palace through the hole that Magnus tore through the Webway.
To quote a fictional character... "Let's make this fun!"
Tactical_Spam wrote: There was a story in the SM omnibus where a single kroot killed 2-3 marines then ate their gene seed and became a Kroot-startes.
We must all join the Kroot-startes...
2015/02/01 11:29:08
Subject: Why wasn't the EMPRAH put in a Dreadnought?
Matthew wrote: why couldn't they just rebuild the Golden Throne into a Dreadnought Sarcophagus...
According to at least the older fluff, the mechanisms that sustain the throne take up an entire wing of the pallace. That's a lot of machinery to cram into a dreadnought.
Because somebody needs to keep the Imperial Webway portal closed to prevent a second chaos invasion of Terra. Also, he asked to Pe out on the Golden Throne.
2015/02/03 01:12:16
Subject: Why wasn't the EMPRAH put in a Dreadnought?
Matthew wrote: It makes sense, he's horribly wounded, why couldn't they just rebuild the Golden Throne into a Dreadnought Sarcophagus. I'm sensing a BS10 WS10 profile...
1. I'm thinking because his body is to far degenerated to even fit into a Dreadnaught
2. The golden thrown also acts as a amplifier for the astronomican....so he's needed in that chair.
3. There is a hole in the "webway" at terra and the Emprah is constantly psyhically fighting to keep it closed.
DIY 3450pts 
1000pts 
~4100
/ BMG: Mr. Freeze, Deathstroke / Battletech: SR, OWA / Fallout Factions: BoS / HGB: Caprice / Malifaux: Arcanists, Guild, Outcasts / MCP: Mutants / SAGA: Ordensstaat / SW Legion: CIS / WWX: Union
1500pt
2500pt