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I've been thinking of starting a tiny Fantasy army, 500 points of Bretonnians or High Elves. However, I know 9th edition is just around the corner, and plan on waiting before developing any Fantasy force too much. I can and will be using the minis for other games too, and they seem like fun to paint, maybe model a bit, however, I don't want to be left holding the bag on some pretty but aesthetically disparate or abandoned minis if Fantasy goes off the deep end or turns into Empire and Friends vs Chaos in 9e.

So will I get burned if I ebay a few Sea Guard or Knights errant, or is that a safe purchase for a foray into Fantasy Battle?

Bretonia is going to be dropped as an army come 9th, sea guard you can always play them of as regular spearmen. The game is completely going to change in 9th, i would wait till April see if you still like it.

Thanks for the quick, solid response. I think that I'll hold off then. The nearest players of mainline Warhammer games are an hour's drive away for me anyways, so I'd have to set up a proxy army of some sort to get my local group to play, the don't paint. Besides, it's a pricy hobby and more and more I find that the parents have to dip into the income from my weekend job to make ends meet, so now might not be the best time to start a new game, especially a mass battle game. Especially especially a GW game. Hopefully come fall, after there have been a few months for the new edition to be front and center, all that will be fixed, and we can see how Fantasy looks then. Waiting on stuff like this never hurt anyone. Thanks again.

xxvaderxx wrote:
Bretonia is going to be dropped as an army come 9th, sea guard you can always play them of as regular spearmen. The game is completely going to change in 9th, i would wait till April see if you still like it.

you see, dropping bretonnia just kept me from joining the hobby. Looks like I will get my knightly action from another TT game. prob warmachine. sad face.

brettonia is being combined w empire, there will still be knights but expect big changes.

Guys don't make statements as fact that might be not true...

@ OP there has been some "rumors" as TET is running rampant with the fluff, that some armies might be getting squatted/combined.

However, rumors they are. We simply have no idea what GW is going to do.
A wait and see approach might be a prudent solution to your dilemma. Come new ed we will have a better idea.
Then again if you like the miniatures no one will crowbar their way into you house and take them...

A good way to spend your money would be either buying the Island of Blood box set or the new box set for 9th. Either way you will get two small forces to play with, and as High Elves and Skaven have both got End Times books, I would say that means they are sticking around in 9th.

Bretonnia being "dropped" is still just internet conjecture at this point. Personally I think players are confusing "factions" with army books, my thought is that the factions are more akin to the same term used in 40k.

That being said, if the worst does happen for the Bretonnians (nobody knows for sure atm) nothing says you can't play 9ed "humans 2.0" with your Bretonnian models. Or continue to play them as Bretonnians if you like. The same rumors that say fantasy is going to six "factions" also says all armies will still be able to be played. With "counts as" and some conversions I intend to keep playing my Bretonnians no matter what 9ed has in store for them.

I would like to state that everyone, every last person, putting forth "facts" like "brets are getting dropped in 9th", or "brets are getting rolled into Empire" is completely engaging in talking out of their ass if they are not first qualifying it with the following statement: No one knows for sure what is going to happen. There is no proof of anything yet.


There is strong anecdotal evidence that in 9th edition the main focus of the game is going to go from large combat scale to skirmish. Allegedly 9th will still pay some small homage to the large scale combat we know the game to be with some blurbs for rules on how to continue playing that, but there will be no more support for the large scale version of the game. You can think of this, if true, as the final sending off of the large scale format. A last tip of the hat as it were. If this is true its GW saying "Here's how you can keep doing large scale army battles if you want to, but pretty much expect this to disappear in 9.5 or 10th ed."

Again, no proof, but some strong anecdotal evidence.


There are rumors that most of the factions as we know them will change / won't be around. The empire and brets are alleged to not be factions in the new 9th, being supplanted from a "human army" perspective by some kind of Warriors of Light / Fantasy Space Marines. Again, this is mostly rumor, but its being more or less corroborated from several sources, a few of them highly reputable. This is pretty much rumor though, and the info is so scant this could mean just about anything - maybe empire and brets join forces with the Fantasy Spehs Mureens, or maybe empire and brets are completely wallpapered, or something in between. No one knows, and there's almost no information out there.


That all said... i'd tread with caution if you don't for sure have a group that is willing to keep playing 8th ed. We may not know the specifics, but i can pretty much guarantee one thing: 9th is going to shake the game up from the ground up.

Rumors are very well known by GW, if they do not choose to come forward with factual information to set them straight, then i will treat them as true. They are most of the time anyway.

xxvaderxx wrote:
Rumors are very well known by GW, if they do not choose to come forward with factual information to set them straight, then i will treat them as true. They are most of the time anyway.

Actually, its GW's company policy never to comment on rumors one way or another.

The rumors are saying that there will be one human faction in 9th that appears to be Fantasy Marines + more traditional human forces. I think that GW is working hard to get away from anything they can't claim full ownership of- the Bretonnians, full of Arthurian legend and other obviously non-original content, will probably exist mostly in stories of the past (since 9th is believed to take place way after the events of 8th and before).

I'm guessing Bretonnian models will still be able to count-as many of the different knights and bowmen options that will *probably* exist, but I don't think the army will exist in any sort of the same fashion as it did before.

 NakedSeamus wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Rumors are very well known by GW, if they do not choose to come forward with factual information to set them straight, then i will treat them as true. They are most of the time anyway.

Actually, its GW's company policy never to comment on rumors one way or another.

I know, and that is their problem as the community has pointed out for years now, not ours.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Accolade wrote:
The rumors are saying that there will be one human faction in 9th that appears to be Fantasy Marines + more traditional human forces. I think that GW is working hard to get away from anything they can't claim full ownership of- the Bretonnians, full of Arthurian legend and other obviously non-original content, will probably exist mostly in stories of the past (since 9th is believed to take place way after the events of 8th and before).

I'm guessing Bretonnian models will still be able to count-as many of the different knights and bowmen options that will *probably* exist, but I don't think the army will exist in any sort of the same fashion as it did before.

Those are 2 different factions.
1- Empire + remnants of bretonia, dwarfts and ogres.
2- Blessed super humans.

xxvaderxx wrote:

 Accolade wrote:
The rumors are saying that there will be one human faction in 9th that appears to be Fantasy Marines + more traditional human forces. I think that GW is working hard to get away from anything they can't claim full ownership of- the Bretonnians, full of Arthurian legend and other obviously non-original content, will probably exist mostly in stories of the past (since 9th is believed to take place way after the events of 8th and before).

I'm guessing Bretonnian models will still be able to count-as many of the different knights and bowmen options that will *probably* exist, but I don't think the army will exist in any sort of the same fashion as it did before.

Those are 2 different factions.
1- Empire + remnants of bretonia, dwarfts and ogres.
2- Blessed super humans.

I'm not entirely confident about that to be honest. There are rumored to be six factions in 9th and I don't see how humans can be separate from Fantasy Marines. Although cynically I can see why Fantasy Marines would be separate (MOAR MARINES= MORE SALES!), I don't understand what fluff they would use to have them fighting regular humans, since the factions in 9th would be so disparate.

 Accolade wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:

 Accolade wrote:
The rumors are saying that there will be one human faction in 9th that appears to be Fantasy Marines + more traditional human forces. I think that GW is working hard to get away from anything they can't claim full ownership of- the Bretonnians, full of Arthurian legend and other obviously non-original content, will probably exist mostly in stories of the past (since 9th is believed to take place way after the events of 8th and before).

I'm guessing Bretonnian models will still be able to count-as many of the different knights and bowmen options that will *probably* exist, but I don't think the army will exist in any sort of the same fashion as it did before.

Those are 2 different factions.
1- Empire + remnants of bretonia, dwarfts and ogres.
2- Blessed super humans.

I'm not entirely confident about that to be honest. There are rumored to be six factions in 9th and I don't see how humans can be separate from Fantasy Marines. Although cynically I can see why Fantasy Marines would be separate (MOAR MARINES= MORE SALES!), I don't understand what fluff they would use to have them fighting regular humans, since the factions in 9th would be so disparate.

Fluff is irrelevant, they could always fight for some reason much like empire against empire or elves against elves.

I suppose, but how does that factor into the rumored total six factions?

1- Chaos
2- Super humans
3- Empire
4- O and G
5- Skaven
6- Elves
7- Undead

I know this are seven, but the way i understand the rummors (and their relation to sales), the CURRENT factions are reduced to 6, new faction being super humans being the 7th.

Empire is not going anywhere, its one of their best selling armies.

xxvaderxx wrote:
1- Chaos
2- Super humans
3- Empire
4- O and G
5- Skaven
6- Elves
7- Undead

I know this are seven, but the way i understand the rummors (and their relation to sales), the CURRENT factions are reduced to 6, new faction being super humans being the 7th.

Empire is not going anywhere, its one of their best selling armies.

I thought Lizardmen was also one of the best selling armies. Yet it's the one rumored of being dropped :(


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm hoping for:

1. Warriors of Light/Order
2. Empire and allies (Dwarves and Brets)
3. Orcs and allies (ogres)
4. Combined Elves
5. Chaos and Skaven (I heard they are allying in end times fluff)
6. Undead Legions
7. Lizardmen

(Using the same idea you stated of 6 existing factions + 1 new).

Im just going to state this much:

moet recent End Times fluff makes it pretty clear that the Skaven have overrun Brettonia, and hat there are still Bretonnian survivors (knights specifically) chilling with Karl Franz in Averland. Make of that what you will. In any case, the Empire has its own knights, so if you want knights, thats where youll find em.

Most likely outcome of all this is:
1. humans & allies (incl. "warriors of light" & dwarves)
2. undead
3. chaos
4. elves
5. o & g
6. skaven
7. lizardmen

ogres will undoubtedly be rolled into another faction ,either humans or o&g, or perhaps they woll be generic mercs across several factions.

Anyone who thinks that armies are going to be dropped is looking only at rumors and not thinking about this economically.

Bretonnia has had models redone very well in the last decade despite the lack of new book, and GW owns those molds, they aren't going to dump them. This conjecture of rumors was exploding a couple years back when Tau weren't getting an army book. Everyone was screaming about the Tau being dropped because their army book hadn't been done in over a decade, but they put breath of life back into that army.

GW is not going to drop armies like everyone is saying they are going to, nor are they going to change the game nearly as much as everyone is screaming, "9TH WILL BE A WHOLE NEW GAME."

GW has dumped an enormous amount of time, effort and money into endtimes, putting out a whole range of gorgeous models for multiple different armies. They have been getting an explosive amount of profit from this and they aren't going to just stop this roll by kicking armies out.

Go ahead and buy what you want for now. Games-workshop would announce far ahead of time if an army was being dropped, that is what they did with the Chaos Dwarves. GW may make some bad decisions, but they aren't going to screw that many people out of their money. If things are going to be discontinued, it would be known.

Avrik, prepare to be surprised and/or disappointed. Technically speaking, nothing is being dropped, but very few things will continue to exist in the same form as they do now.

I think I'll snag the Sea Guard from Island of Blood and some Knights of the Realm off Ebay after Easter. Sounds like the new edition hits in May, so people won't be holding onto their minis too tight before them, and those guys are both pretty cheap for now, I don't see that changing cool. The new edition will definitely be looked into at least, and worse case scenario, I have some nice looking minis for Song of Blades and Heroes that represent unit types I didn't own before, High Elf Spearmen and Human Heavy Cavalry. Thank you so much for all the input, guys

So out of curiosity, what's the source on these rumors that the sky is falling, WF is squatting everything and going skirmish, and that square tires will take the market by storm? I only follow naftka casually, and haven't really seen too much to indicate the rumors I'm hearing here there, and I'm skeptical after the promises of a Super Special Awesome 10mm Epic with Eldar vs IG as the starter fell through. Where's everyone getting this, 'side from the End Time fluff books?

I can tell you one fact; island of blood is excellent value, and a great way to jump start an elf army.

is it safe?

That depends: is it secret?

Sorry, somebody had to. As someone who has sold off pretty much all of his GW stock (except a select few items) I'm curious as to see what'll happen. If they make it so smaller armies exist and new stuff comes in waves (that doesn't go "out of play cycle" in 6 months), I might actually get back in. I LOVE following ET. I think it's awesome.

No fantasy Space Marines. That's stupid. But a seriously more badass bretonnia and empire combo? Hell yes. Give me warriors in full plate on foot and horse, led by Karl Franz ascendant, backed up by cannons and steam tanks, and I'm jumping in with gusto. Put guys with a statline of 4s, ATSKNF and basically make them SM in platemail...no. Just...no. Doing this would make Chaos the mustache twirling villain it currently is in 40k, instead of the awesome badass it still is in fantasy. Because we all know that's what would happen. Mark my words.

 timetowaste85 wrote:

is it safe?

That depends: is it secret?

Sorry, somebody had to. As someone who has sold off pretty much all of his GW stock

I just sold all my ...of chaos stuff except a few key things. But on the plus side I have some extra cash & some more free space.

 Bottle wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
1- Chaos
2- Super humans
3- Empire
4- O and G
5- Skaven
6- Elves
7- Undead

I know this are seven, but the way i understand the rummors (and their relation to sales), the CURRENT factions are reduced to 6, new faction being super humans being the 7th.

Empire is not going anywhere, its one of their best selling armies.

I thought Lizardmen was also one of the best selling armies. Yet it's the one rumored of being dropped :(


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm hoping for:

1. Warriors of Light/Order
2. Empire and allies (Dwarves and Brets)
3. Orcs and allies (ogres)
4. Combined Elves
5. Chaos and Skaven (I heard they are allying in end times fluff)
6. Undead Legions
7. Lizardmen

(Using the same idea you stated of 6 existing factions + 1 new).

RE: Lizards.

I have money they are a "wave 2" army introduction in 9th. Sales 101 : always leave them wanting more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Avrik_Shasla wrote:
Anyone who thinks that armies are going to be dropped is looking only at rumors and not thinking about this economically.

Bretonnia has had models redone very well in the last decade despite the lack of new book, and GW owns those molds, they aren't going to dump them. This conjecture of rumors was exploding a couple years back when Tau weren't getting an army book. Everyone was screaming about the Tau being dropped because their army book hadn't been done in over a decade, but they put breath of life back into that army.

GW is not going to drop armies like everyone is saying they are going to, nor are they going to change the game nearly as much as everyone is screaming, "9TH WILL BE A WHOLE NEW GAME."

GW has dumped an enormous amount of time, effort and money into endtimes, putting out a whole range of gorgeous models for multiple different armies. They have been getting an explosive amount of profit from this and they aren't going to just stop this roll by kicking armies out.

Go ahead and buy what you want for now. Games-workshop would announce far ahead of time if an army was being dropped, that is what they did with the Chaos Dwarves. GW may make some bad decisions, but they aren't going to screw that many people out of their money. If things are going to be discontinued, it would be known.

The optimism is strong with this one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:

is it safe?

That depends: is it secret?

Sorry, somebody had to. As someone who has sold off pretty much all of his GW stock

I just sold all my ...of chaos stuff except a few key things. But on the plus side I have some extra cash & some more free space.

Ugh. Sorry to hear that ... (even if you aren't). Lack of 8th playgroup, housecleaning, or little from A little from B ?

By proxy, i just picked up a Chaos Dwarf (about 65% FW models - chars, infernal guard, war machines, KoW bull centaurs (i know, not my fav either... but meh), Some cool custom K'Daai Destoryers, and some LOTR models as hobgoblins which i will probably ditch for Skaven or night goblins simply because i like the looks. My group is also cool with the net codex slave ogres rule, so it meshes in even better as i have a large ogre army), and I got what i consider a very good deal on it, and they're fully painted to boot. Army is... probably 3000-3500.


But, i have a group that is cool with playing 8th until the cows come home, so it makes sense. Guy i'm buying them from likes to play SotA games, and is glad they're going to a good home, so there's that too.

 Avrik_Shasla wrote:
Go ahead and buy what you want for now. Games-workshop would announce far ahead of time if an army was being dropped, that is what they did with the Chaos Dwarves. GW may make some bad decisions, but they aren't going to screw that many people out of their money. If things are going to be discontinued, it would be known.

Wha--? Things are discontinued all the time without notice or explanation. Kits go missing, sometimes come back but often don't. The LOTR has been quietly cut down over the last few years. There's no more "collector's kits" section so things just get yanked out.

GW doesn't care if it runs this up to the last minute because what they want are as many sales of soon-to-be-defunct product as possible (mainly all the Finecast stuff they won't want to deal with). They'll axe all this stuff, because what are you going to do about it? Write them a strongly-worded email? And if you are actually upset, you're deemed non-target audience and things go on the way they do.

GW believe the most important thing for their product is attitude. But it's not just the attitude of their employees, they want to cultivate a loyal customer base that will happily buy their product no matter the changes, because the product is just that awesome (go look at the recent WDW and look at how much they use terms like "awesome" to describe their stuff). 9th will bring in customers who have never played WHFB before, and only maintain the most diehard segment of the WHFB fanbase. And in GW'/Tom Kirby's mind, that's a win.

 Haight wrote:

 Bottle wrote:

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:

is it safe?

That depends: is it secret?

Sorry, somebody had to. As someone who has sold off pretty much all of his GW stock

I just sold all my ...of chaos stuff except a few key things. But on the plus side I have some extra cash & some more free space.

Ugh. Sorry to hear that ... (even if you aren't). Lack of 8th playgroup, housecleaning, or little from A little from B ?

By proxy, i just picked up a Chaos Dwarf (about 65% FW models - chars, infernal guard, war machines, KoW bull centaurs (i know, not my fav either... but meh), Some cool custom K'Daai Destoryers, and some LOTR models as hobgoblins which i will probably ditch for Skaven or night goblins simply because i like the looks. My group is also cool with the net codex slave ogres rule, so it meshes in even better as i have a large ogre army), and I got what i consider a very good deal on it, and they're fully painted to boot. Army is... probably 3000-3500.


But, i have a group that is cool with playing 8th until the cows come home, so it makes sense. Guy i'm buying them from likes to play SotA games, and is glad they're going to a good home, so there's that too.

Honestly a bunch of reasons. I have Undead legions, Dark Elves, & Skaven. My "Of Chaos" stuff was never going to get painted and almost never saw the table. I have a TON of players in my area so that's not an issue but the rumours about 9th pushed me over the edge, I know it's a gamble but eh. The extra space is nice considering I now share my apartment, the extra money is going to pay down some of my student loan debt, and it was stuff I rarely used & would in all honestly likely never paint so I'm glad they're going to someone who will use them.

Might sell some of my 40k stuff next. I just need to honestly ask myself "Am I keeping this because I want to USE it, or am I keeping it because I want to HAVE it? If it's the latter I should probably look at offloading it. Selling the first bit off makes the rest easier. Plus I still have 3 40k armies, 3 fantasy armies 1 WM & 1 Hordes army and pretty much everything from Malifaux classic lol.

 Avrik_Shasla wrote:
Bretonnia has had models redone very well in the last decade despite the lack of new book

All the Bretonnian models are now 11 years old. I don't think anything new has come out in that time.

Playing 8th will have some major issues, for instance GW dropping models. Take DE, rumored unified core troops will be spearmen and archers. There go corsairs and witches minis that you will not be able to get any more, xbows as well but what ever you can use bows instead.