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Hollismason wrote:
The Decurion's really the best way to build the Death Star honestly because it's cheaper and gives it a better ability ( Teleport x 2)

Overlord w/ Veil of Darkness, Warscythe, Phase Shifter, Res Orb
10 Lychguard w/ Warscythes
Royal Court
Nemesor < Overlord
Orikan < Cryptek
Obyron < Lord

All the Lychguard can Reroll 1s on Protocols, Everyone has a 4+ ( Remember the Decurion gives the 4++ to everyone even the Royal court)

Nemesor gives the entire squad whatever bonuses that your enemy has.

Why is that though?

Well Nemesor picks a different Warlord Trait every turn which is crazy town plus you know he has ZEALOT.

I agree that's a crazy good deathstar but I want to run wraiths without taking harvest, 110 point tax is rough. I would have to spend about 200 hundred bucks just to have enough models to run a decurion anyway.

It's a good point in that the Decurion has a TAX thats pretty hefty and you lose Obsec. What combos are good with Nemesor for giving the squad though. He comes with Zealot that's pretty good already.

This is something I just thought of

Allies of Convenience / Desperate
Units from the same army that are Allies of Convenience treat each other as ‘enemy units’ that cannot be charged, shot, attacked in close combat, or targeted with psychic powers.

Take a Callidus Assassin, pretty sure they come with Hit and Run and Stealth right?

Callidus isn't a terrible unit either. I'm actually not sure what assassins have what, I thought that the Callidus had hit and run though, plus stealth and maybe Furious Charge?

Hollismason wrote:
It's a good point in that the Decurion has a TAX thats pretty hefty and you lose Obsec. What combos are good with Nemesor for giving the squad though. He comes with Zealot that's pretty good already.

This is something I just thought of

Allies of Convenience / Desperate
Units from the same army that are Allies of Convenience treat each other as ‘enemy units’ that cannot be charged, shot, attacked in close combat, or targeted with psychic powers.

Take a Callidus Assassin, pretty sure they come with Hit and Run and Stealth right?

Callidus isn't a terrible unit either. I'm actually not sure what assassins have what, I thought that the Callidus had hit and run though, plus stealth and maybe Furious Charge?

He doesn't come with Zealot, he only has it for Turn 1. At the start of Turn 2, he has to switch it for another Warlord Trait and cannot go back to one he's had before.

Actually the rule says that he MAY pick it not that he has to he can just keep Zealot.

Adaptive Tactics: If Nemesor Zahndrekh is your Warlord, you may select a different Warlord Trait for him (no D6 roll is necessary) at the start of each friendly turn after the first –


Pretty definitive and mkes the Deathstar better actually.

Zahndrekh. Nemesor just means General in Necronese.

I'm sorry I don't understand your crazy moon man language.

It may make the deathstar mathematically more resilient, but you have to pump points into the Decurion to make it work. Is that worth what you get out of it? I'm not sure

Requizen wrote:


Orikan
5 Shieldguard w/ Night Scythe
Overlord w/ Warscythe, Res Orb
Lord w/ Warscythe
595 points

Orikan
5 Shieldguard
Overlord w/Warscythe, Res Orb
Obyron
515 points

First is nearly 600 points and has to start in reserve, but the Flyer isn't exactly bad. Second is 80 points less and starts on the board, but is less reliable to get into combat.

What do you think is the way to make this unit work?

If you are looking for AP2 and a delivery system Obyron is surely the way to go. He gives the unit a 2+ save you can use to tank, he allows you to deep strike (and start on the board) he has WS6 and AP2 attacks. As far as getting close to the enemy the unit is only a very small foot print, only drastic dice rolls would see you fail I would of thought.

Personally I don't see allot of 2+ armour saves in my group and Id prefer to take them in the flyer with just (Orikan + 5 Lychguard). But if you want AP2 attacks with a delivery system? how many AP do you need? Orikan powered up + Obyron is 7 (9 on the charge) Str 7 AP 2?

The list I'm toying around with right now:

D Lord w/phase shifter, nightmare shroud, res orb, warscythe
Orikan

10 Warriors w/Ghost Ark
5 Immortals w/Night Scythe

6 Wraiths w/whip coils
6 Wraiths w/whip coils
8 Tomb Blades w/Nebuloscopes, Shield Vanes

Canoptek Harvest:
1 Spyder
3 Scarabs
6 Wraiths w/whip coils

That's 1850 and has a somewhat slow deathstar, but from front to back of the unit you can daisy - chain 19" (just in between the wraiths and Orikan, assuming the D Lord is full of fail; becomes more if D Lord doesn't trip over a rock as he does assault moves) so only on hammer and anvil is this really an issue. C'MON MASTER OF AMBUSH! Also if the D Lord can roll 6+ on 2d6 sum then he will be tanking on a re-rollable 2+

Orikan is such a steal at his point value, actually all of the Characters are rather inexpensive, I can't actually think of one that's absolutely god awful ( Not counting c'tans by themselves.)

Requizen wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
It's a good point in that the Decurion has a TAX thats pretty hefty and you lose Obsec. What combos are good with Nemesor for giving the squad though. He comes with Zealot that's pretty good already.

This is something I just thought of

Allies of Convenience / Desperate
Units from the same army that are Allies of Convenience treat each other as ‘enemy units’ that cannot be charged, shot, attacked in close combat, or targeted with psychic powers.

Take a Callidus Assassin, pretty sure they come with Hit and Run and Stealth right?

Callidus isn't a terrible unit either. I'm actually not sure what assassins have what, I thought that the Callidus had hit and run though, plus stealth and maybe Furious Charge?

He doesn't come with Zealot, he only has it for Turn 1. At the start of Turn 2, he has to switch it for another Warlord Trait and cannot go back to one he's had before.

Adaptive Tactics is an optional ability, you don't have to activate it if you would rather keep Eternal Madness. Or you could do it once, get something better, and keep that.

Yeah so uh... Gaze of Death I did not realize how powerful that was.

It can target Flying Monstrous Creatures. Yes, okay I am okay with that.

Can target Invisible units, yes I am okay with that Centurion Star.

Can be used in CC.

Okay.... here are those odds...

11 50
12 37.50
13 25.92
14 16.20
15 9.25
16 4.62
17 1.85

To roll more than that number. I will take a 16% Chance of odds to kill a flyrant a turn.

This depends, is it a shooting attack or not?

Hollismason wrote:Orikan is such a steal at his point value, actually all of the Characters are rather inexpensive, I can't actually think of one that's absolutely god awful ( Not counting c'tans by themselves.)

Trazyn and Anrakyr are fairly garbage. Imotekh is pretty situational, but not bad.

BrotherGecko wrote:This depends, is it a shooting attack or not?

Nope. It's just a "In the shooting phase, pick a target within 12". They take 3d6-LD wounds." ability.

Hmmmmm.....makes sense looks weird. While I own a NB I'm going to sit a wait to see what happens with that. As the moment it gets declared a shooting attack it won't effect invisiblity or FMC lol.

It doesn't roll to hit, it doesn't have any targeting restrictions except pick a non vehicle unit.

There's a thread in YMDC

I thought flying mc's, like zooming aircraft, couldn't be targetted by things that don't roll to hit?

Or was that faq'ed as strictly shooting attacks?

That is what I was getting at. If it gets FAQ'd to be a shooting attack (or something more clear) sometime in 8th ed (4 months from now ) it will not effect FMC or Invisibilty. As shooting attacks that do not roll to hit can not hit either of them.

Play it up while there is still time but I will wait to see wait happens.

Side note, I can not believe how poorly written this codex was. Move over MSS and Tesla haters! just got realy yo!

There's no such rule that I'm aware of for Flying Monstrous Creatures.

So now the thing to do is just take a Decurion and then take like 4 Night Bringers and a Conclave.

The Nightbringer is Unique, you can't have multiples unfortunately

Hollismason wrote:
There's no such rule that I'm aware of for Flying Monstrous Creatures.

So now the thing to do is just take a Decurion and then take like 4 Night Bringers and a Conclave.

Hard to Hit rule, no Skyfire you shoot Snap Shots. Weapons that don't roll to hit can't fire Snap Shots.

Yes, but it's not a shooting attack. If it was a shooting attack that automatically hit then yeah, right now it's just a thing that happens.

It's a better Psychic Shriek basically

No doubt you can't argue that. But as a loooong time Dark Angels player I am paranoid of ambiguous rules as they rarely fall in my favor.

P.S. I am also stinging from the horrendous banhammer that my Tesseract Vault got.

Yeah true, but as it is it affects Invisible units, Flyers, which is a good thing.

Centurionstar is definitely something that's a problem, I do not like facing invisible units.

Yeah I feel like it doesn't roll to hit and can target flyers and invisible units alike. I think it can also work out of combat but I feel like targeting into combat might be the line. I emailed Reece to see how they're going to rule that for the LVO

Going back to the Orikan + LG deathstar for a bit, any Olord you put in that unit with a 2+/4++ is going to be nearly unkillable. So, while at first I was think Orikan + Shield LG, I swapped it around to Orikan + 2 or 3 Olord tanks (including Zandy) + WS LG.

Zandy
Olord + Phylactery + Phase Shifter + Res Orb + Shroud + WS
Lord + WS + Solar Staff
Orikan
5 WS LG
Night Scythe

810

'Something like that. Stick Zandy and the Olord out and front and this thing is pretty tough to kill, and with 15 base WS attacks + Orikan you'll shred just about anything in CC.

On the flip side, you can use your LG as the bullet wounds and do something like this:

Olord + WS
Olord + WS
Lord + WS
Lord + WS
Lord + WS
Orikan
5 x Sword and Board LG
Night Scythe

Which just so happens to be the exact same price. In this one, you have 12 base WS attacks, 10 Base S5 AP3 attacks, and Orikan. So, you get a little punchier with the Sword and Board, strangely enough. However, the beef of the previous formations wound soaking ability is 6 2+/4++ with reroll to 1 saved IWND wounds, instead of 5 3++ with reroll to 1 saves. The first formation also has a Res Orb and Solar Staff already included in the price. The second formation does net you 4 more total wounds, though, fwiw.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just thought of this as a one two punch::

(Using CAD + RC formation)

Zandy
Chronotek + Veil
10 Gauss Immortals

435

Obyron
10 WS LG
Chronotek + Solar Staff

475

With a little bit of luck, you should be able to cram 3 WS attacks directly up your opponent's ass the first turn, and there's not a hole lot they can do about it besides run.

Is there though anyway to make the Deathstar less expensive? I think there is..

Orikan
Obyron

Destroyer Cult

Destroyer Lord , Warscythe, Nightmare Shroud, Phase Shifter, Res Orb

5 Lychguard - 125

Total 595

Plus the cost of a Destroyer Cult but seriously that's a crazy good thing anyway.

Yes or no, but it has the Added benefit of 4+ , 4+ reroll . 2+ Rerollable .. added benefit of a Toughness 6 with a 2+ reroll, 4+, 4+ possible reroll. Cheaper as well I think

The Decurion? Not really, no. I mean, the best you can do is make the most of what it gives you.

It's C'Tan Bomb

Orikan
Obyron

Elites
5 Lychguard w/ Warscythes

Troops
Immortals w/ Nightscythe
Immortals w/ NightScythe

Fast Attack

Destroyer Cult

Destroyer Lord , Warscythe, Nightmare Shroud, Phase Shifter

3 x Destroyers
3 x Destroyers
3 x Destroyers

2 x Heavy Destroyers

Covenant of the C'Tan
Nightbringer
Cryptek w/ Veil of Darkness
Cryptek w/ Staff of Light

1842

Optional just drop the C'Tan bomb and add Wraiths as part of the bomb and more Heavy Destroyers.

Wraithbomb

Orikan
Obyron


Troops
Immortals w/ Nightscythe
Immortals w/ NightScythe

Fast Attack
6 Wraiths w/ Whip Coils

H. Support
3 H. Destroyers

Destroyer Cult

Destroyer Lord , Warscythe, Nightmare Shroud, Phase Shifter, Res Orb

3 x Destroyers w/ H. Destroyer
3 x Destroyers w/ H. Destroyer
3 x Destroyers w/ H. Destroyer

3 x Heavy Destroyers


1840

Hollismason wrote:
Is there though anyway to make the Deathstar less expensive? I think there is..

Orikan
Obyron

Destroyer Cult

Destroyer Lord , Warscythe, Nightmare Shroud, Phase Shifter, Res Orb

5 Lychguard - 125

Total 595

Plus the cost of a Destroyer Cult but seriously that's a crazy good thing anyway.

Yes or no, but it has the Added benefit of 4+ , 4+ reroll . 2+ Rerollable .. added benefit of a Toughness 6 with a 2+ reroll, 4+, 4+ possible reroll. Cheaper as well I think

This... I like this. Destroyer Lord loses out on the WS5 of the Lord, but gains HoW, PE(E!), and T6. T6 doesn't help except in Challenges and against S10 attacks, but it's nice to have. While the DLord is more expensive than the Overlord, it also keeps you from having to bring Royal Court (and therefore another HQ on top of the Deathstar ones).

The only downside to this that I see is that, while taking the extra character costs points, it is nice to not have your Warlord in the Deep Striking forward squad. My original plan was to have Zahndrekh in the backline as my Warlord while the Orikanstar jumped forward. Also, this can't take a Night Scythe if it wanted to, since the DLord can't go inside.

Ups and downs, but I think it's not bad overall. I also am overall a fan of the Destroyer Cult, so I have no problem bringing that.

CAD
HQ
Orikan
Obyron

Troops
10x Warriors w/ Ghost Ark
6x Immortals w/ Night Scythe
6x Immortals w/ Night Scythe

Elites
5x Lychguard w/ Shields

Destroyer Cult

Destroyer Lord w/ Warscythe, Phylactery, Nightmare Shroud, Phase Shifter

2x Destroyer, 1x Heavy
2x Destroyer, 1x Heavy
2x Destroyer, 1x Heavy

3x Heavy Destroyer

1834. Could upgrade to the Voidreaper, I guess, or drop an Immortal from each squad and get something else. Decent amount of ObSec, good mobility thanks to Scythes (which also bring air presence) and Destroyers, plus a strong Deathstar. I suppose dropping one of the Night Scythes in lieu of more ObSec units might not be a bad trade, but getting those Immortals to where they want to go seems more important than more Troops footslogging across the board. Overall, this is only 8 squads in 1850: 44 models, 3 of which are Vehicles. That's a bit small, but I think it might be alright.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hollismason wrote:
It's C'Tan Bomb

Orikan
Obyron

Elites
5 Lychguard w/ Warscythes

Troops
Immortals w/ Nightscythe
Immortals w/ NightScythe

Fast Attack

Destroyer Cult

Destroyer Lord , Warscythe, Nightmare Shroud, Phase Shifter, Res Orb

3 x Destroyers w/ H. Destroyer
3 x Destroyers w/ H. Destroyer
3 x Destroyers w/ H. Destroyer

3 x Heavy Destroyers

Covenant of the C'Tan
Nightbringer
Cryptek w/ Veil of Darkness
Cryptek w/ Staff of Light

1842

Optional just drop the C'Tan bomb and add Wraiths as part of the bomb and more Heavy Destroyers.

Wraithbomb

Orikan
Obyron


Troops
Immortals w/ Nightscythe
Immortals w/ NightScythe

Fast Attack
6 Wraiths w/ Whip Coils

H. Support
3 H. Destroyers

Destroyer Cult

Destroyer Lord , Warscythe, Nightmare Shroud, Phase Shifter, Res Orb

3 x Destroyers w/ H. Destroyer
3 x Destroyers w/ H. Destroyer
3 x Destroyers w/ H. Destroyer

3 x Heavy Destroyers


1840

Check your math on these, I'm getting 1945 and 1833