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 adamsouza wrote:

col_impact wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:
It's a strange world in which what is in effect a crisis suit with an improved stimm injector counts as kinds sucking.

Consider this. Why would anyone ever consider not running the Decurion? It's the loss of objective secured. So there you go.

Destroyers never get objective secured, Decurion or not, so I don't understand your response.

He's talking about all of the other models that you are required to take that lose obsec that they would otherwise have, I believe


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Byte wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:

Cryptek w/phase shifter, God Shackle, solar staff

Two relics can be ran like this?

I don't see any restriction to the contrary. In the codex it says you can only have one codex relic; however the relics from the shield of Baal book have no such restriction. I'm grabbing a relic from Mephrit and a relic from the codex.

LVO was just won by an army with no viable obsec. No biggie.

 Byte wrote:
LVO was just won by an army with no viable obsec. No biggie.

How many of the top 8 ran objective secured?

 Byte wrote:
LVO was just won by an army with no viable obsec. No biggie.

Point taken; however much of that was due to reserves manipulation and forcing entire armies to shoot into mucolids, a single Lictor in 2+ cover, or nothing at all for a turn. You can't get that with Necrons. Also Flyrant AA is real. I'm not saying Decurion is awful, just that it probably won't be at the top tables for some time to come.

col_impact wrote:

 Byte wrote:
LVO was just won by an army with no viable obsec. No biggie.

How many of the top 8 ran objective secured?

That's like asking what the brides maids look like? C'mon. Do you ever concede a point?

 Byte wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 Byte wrote:
LVO was just won by an army with no viable obsec. No biggie.

How many of the top 8 ran objective secured?

That's like asking what the brides maids look like? C'mon. Do you ever concede a point?

I don't think you understand what counts as evidence. The percentage of players running objective secured in the top 8 is a much more telling statistic than the outlier statistic of whether or not the actual overall winner ran objective secured.

Both are valid points. Obviously, obsec is not the end all be all that we have made it out to be. You can win even at the highest level with very little obsec. That being said, it is also telling that a large percentage of the field did have a good amount or even a lot of obsec. That doesn't count for nothing, just as Sean's list only having 1 obsec ripper squad doesn't count for nothing

col_impact wrote:

 Byte wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 Byte wrote:
LVO was just won by an army with no viable obsec. No biggie.

How many of the top 8 ran objective secured?

That's like asking what the brides maids look like? C'mon. Do you ever concede a point?

I don't think you understand what counts as evidence. The percentage of players running objective secured in the top 8 is a much more telling statistic than the outlier statistic of whether or not the actual overall winner ran objective secured.

I understand quite well thank you. Obsec centric lists aren't required to win the biggest 40k GT to date. As demonstrated by tangible results.

 Byte wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 Byte wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 Byte wrote:
LVO was just won by an army with no viable obsec. No biggie.

How many of the top 8 ran objective secured?

That's like asking what the brides maids look like? C'mon. Do you ever concede a point?

I don't think you understand what counts as evidence. The percentage of players running objective secured in the top 8 is a much more telling statistic than the outlier statistic of whether or not the actual overall winner ran objective secured.

I understand quite well thank you. Obsec centric lists aren't required to win the biggest 40k GT to date. As demonstrated by tangible results.

Your logic is amusing to me. It's like someone saying there is no more racism in America since America has a black president.

col_impact wrote:

 Byte wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 Byte wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 Byte wrote:
LVO was just won by an army with no viable obsec. No biggie.

How many of the top 8 ran objective secured?

That's like asking what the brides maids look like? C'mon. Do you ever concede a point?

I don't think you understand what counts as evidence. The percentage of players running objective secured in the top 8 is a much more telling statistic than the outlier statistic of whether or not the actual overall winner ran objective secured.

I understand quite well thank you. Obsec centric lists aren't required to win the biggest 40k GT to date. As demonstrated by tangible results.

Your logic is amusing to me. It's like someone saying there is no more racism in America since America has a black president.

Glad to amuse you. I try to be polite, but your just can't reciprocate.

ObSec depends on the army.

If you're playing Nids, then Rippers aren't really gonna hold Objectives all game.

Ghost Arks/Drop Pods/Wave Serpents are a different thing all together.

If playing Necrons I would either take a CAD or Mephrist Detachment. I find the Decurion too restrictive in what you have to take.

 Byte wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 Byte wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 Byte wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 Byte wrote:
LVO was just won by an army with no viable obsec. No biggie.

How many of the top 8 ran objective secured?

That's like asking what the brides maids look like? C'mon. Do you ever concede a point?

I don't think you understand what counts as evidence. The percentage of players running objective secured in the top 8 is a much more telling statistic than the outlier statistic of whether or not the actual overall winner ran objective secured.

I understand quite well thank you. Obsec centric lists aren't required to win the biggest 40k GT to date. As demonstrated by tangible results.

Your logic is amusing to me. It's like someone saying there is no more racism in America since America has a black president.

Glad to amuse you. I try to be polite, but your just can't reciprocate.

At what point was I being impolite?

Byte, impact, let's just let it drop shall we? You both presented a logical reason why your point is valid. Agree to disagree?

1st place had 1 obsec unit (3 rippers)
2nd place had 3-6 obsec units (3x10 man scouts)
3rd place had 6 obsec units (2 5man DA, 2x3 bikes, 2 wavserpents)

~6th place had 2 obsec units (2x 11 horrors)
~7th place had 3 obsec units (2x GK strikes 1x 5man scout)

I'm trying to cut down to the best units in the new codex.
For Troops it seems that minimum cost Nightscythes are still the most reliable source of objective secured units and firepower.
Fast Attack is where all the tough choices lie. After doing a lot of experimenting and reading I've decided to cut Wraiths... it's just really hard to fit them into a well balanced list. They're a great tarpit but you're trading a lot of points (258 for 6 with whip coils) for a great tarpit that can get shot to pieces before it can do any real damage. Destroyers and Tomb Blades have shined in the new codex with their mobility, survivability, ranged firepower and cost. There's also not enough room in the Fast Attack slots to fit a good amount of all 3 (Wraiths, Tomb Blades and Destroyers) Fortunately the Destroyer Cult gives you Destroyers without a real tax. The Canoptek Harvest has a steap tax of 110 points to get those same 6 Wraiths.
Heavy Support is pretty easy. 150 pts for a resilient and mobile unit that has 3 Lascannons? Yes please.

So here's what I've come up with.

CAD:

Destroyer Lord w/ Phase Shifter, Warscythe, Nightmare Shroud - 190
5x Immortals w/ Gauss - 85
Nightscythe - 130
5x Immortals w/ Gauss - 85
Nightscythe - 130
6x Tomb Blades w/ SV, NS, Gauss - 132
6x Tomb Blades w/ SV, NS, Gauss - 132
3x Heavy Destroyers - 150
3x Heavy Destroyers - 150

Destroyer Cult

Destroyer Lord w/ Phase Shifter, Warscythe - 155
3x Heavy Destroyers - 150
3x Destroyers - 120
3x Destroyers - 120
3x Destroyers - 120

So that's 3 units of AP 3 shooting, 3 units of AP 2 shooting and 2 units of AP 4 ignore cover shooting plus 2 Nightscythes... all on mobile and resilient platforms. And the two Destroyer Lords are no push over in close combat. Each could easily get rid of a small unit or a vehicle.

Does this seem like a good competitive list?

I think that's a damn good list. Solid indeed.

Keeping track of which units of Destroyers are in the Formation will be annoying. Better paint them differently.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Keeping track of which units of Destroyers are in the Formation will be annoying. Better paint them differently.

I'll only have to worry about remembering which unit of heavy destroyers is in the formation. All the regular destroyers are in.

Maybe cut back on the Tomb Blades for Stalkers? It's serious synergy with your Destroyers...

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Maybe cut back on the Tomb Blades for Stalkers? It's serious synergy with your Destroyers...

That seems like a huge liability. Being the only vehicle in the list it would receive all the anti-vehicle fire. The Destroyers would have to be near the Stalker to gain the bonus, forcing me to clump up when I should be spreading out and using the assault move for shoot and scoot tactics. The stalker also doesn't contribute as much damage as a unit of Tomb Blades.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, it just doesn't fit the mobility aspect of the list.

One thing worth mentioning about wraiths:

I know you've already decided against them,(which is fine because the destroyer list works well), but I don't think running a max group of 6 with whip coils is the best idea anyway.

For less points, you can take the bare bones Canoptek Harvest formation. You get 3 units, 2 of which are very fast and annoying, and all 3 are survivable. The whole goal of wraiths should be for tying units up, not really trying to kill them (which they can be terrible at). I havent found the whip coils to be worth the points at all. The exile rays work fine, but again, cause the unit to be super expensive.

More and more the MSU approach with wraiths is looking better than the max approach with them.

omerakk wrote:
One thing worth mentioning about wraiths:

I know you've already decided against them,(which is fine because the destroyer list works well), but I don't think running a max group of 6 with whip coils is the best idea anyway.

For less points, you can take the bare bones Canoptek Harvest formation. You get 3 units, 2 of which are very fast and annoying, and all 3 are survivable. The whole goal of wraiths should be for tying units up, not really trying to kill them (which they can be terrible at). I havent found the whip coils to be worth the points at all. The exile rays work fine, but again, cause the unit to be super expensive.

More and more the MSU approach with wraiths is looking better than the max approach with them.

Oh that's interesting. I hadn't even considered running Wraiths in minimum squad sizes. I'm pretty committed to building the Destroyer Wing right now but until it's built I'll probably try out that idea.

The MSU approach with Wraiths is a super great viable strategy , especiall if you go with the Decurion Detachment, because they get the Transdimensional Beamer and Relentless.

3 Wraiths w/ Transdimensional Beamer
3 Scarabs
1 Spyder

3 Wraiths w/ Transdimensional Beamer
3 Scarabs
1 Spyder

Total : 540

Then with the Decurion which allows 3 Units of Tomb Blades

The unit of 3 Tomb Blades is the one that sticks out the most because added up that's 7 Fast Attack Choices. You can then still at 540 points take more Fast Attack Options w/ the Destroyer Cult or spend 480 on 10 Praetorians and a Triarch.

This would be my "competitive" Decurion

Necron Overlord w/ Warscythe , Phase Shifter, Res Orb , Veil of Darkness (175)
5 Lychguard w/ Dispersion Shields (155)
10 Warriors (130)
w/ Night Scythe (260)
10 Warriors w/ Ghost Ark (235)
5 Immortals w/ Night Scythe (215)
5 Tomb Blades w/ Nebulocope , Particle Blaster, Shield Vane (120)
5 Tomb Blades w/ Nebuloscope, Shield Vane (110)

Canoptek Harvest
3 Wraiths w/ Transdimensional Beamers
3 Scarabs
1 Spyder w/ Particle Beamer

Canoptek Harvest
3 Wraiths w/ Transdimensional Beamer
3 Scarabs
1 Spyder

1800

omerakk wrote:
I havent found the whip coils to be worth the points at all.

I enjoy taking them, just to have something in my army that strikes first in assault.

What's good about Tomb Blades again?

Is it just because they're the 'toughest' line option in a Rec Legion?

Hollismason wrote:

This would be my "competitive" Decurion

Necron Overlord w/ Warscythe , Phase Shifter, Res Orb , Veil of Darkness (175)
5 Lychguard w/ Dispersion Shields (155)
10 Warriors (130)
w/ Night Scythe (260)
10 Warriors w/ Ghost Ark (235)
5 Immortals w/ Night Scythe (215)
5 Tomb Blades w/ Nebulocope , Particle Blaster, Shield Vane (120)
5 Tomb Blades w/ Nebuloscope, Shield Vane (110)

Canoptek Harvest
Canoptek Harvest

1800

I tried something very much like this and got smoked by a mech list.

-Matt

 KiloFiX wrote:
What's good about Tomb Blades again?

Is it just because they're the 'toughest' line option in a Rec Legion?

They're cheap. 22 points per model.

They're resilient. T5 and 3+ armour saves and Jink AND 5+ RP (4+ in decurion)

They're fast. See jetbikes.

They deal good amount of damage. Twin-linked rapid fire S5 AP4 Gauss with Ignores Cover is very strong.

Add all this together and include the fact that they can be taken in units of up to 10 models and you have a strong unit with little to no downsides.

 KiloFiX wrote:
What's good about Tomb Blades again?

Is it just because they're the 'toughest' line option in a Rec Legion?

They're an Immortal upgraded to jetbike rules, a twin linked gun and T5 for a trivial cost and can buy ignores cover and/or a horde clearing blast for cheap.

The don't quite come into their own against Marines who are admittedly ten times as common as any other army, but when you can shred Wave Serpents and most of the infantry from the same source, or loose ten S6 cover ignoring blasts into a horde... Yeah.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

Hollismason wrote:

This would be my "competitive" Decurion

Necron Overlord w/ Warscythe , Phase Shifter, Res Orb , Veil of Darkness (175)
5 Lychguard w/ Dispersion Shields (155)
10 Warriors (130)
w/ Night Scythe (260)
10 Warriors w/ Ghost Ark (235)
5 Immortals w/ Night Scythe (215)
5 Tomb Blades w/ Nebulocope , Particle Blaster, Shield Vane (120)
5 Tomb Blades w/ Nebuloscope, Shield Vane (110)

Canoptek Harvest
Canoptek Harvest

1800

I tried something very much like this and got smoked by a mech list.

-Matt

Go into detail please. Were there swaps that would have helped your match? I a m a big fan of combining the bargeLord with tarpitters

I'm honestly just leaning to always playing them with Particle Beamers but you lose the ability to fire when you jink with those.