Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

What? The Barge is great! If you're running a Decurion it extends the range of the RP re-roll, and while it obviously won't beat high strength close combat monsters and units full of powerfists, it can take on just about anything else. D6 S6 hits + 4 WS5 S7 AP2 hits will take any non-walker vehicle apart, and seriously hurt anything from Tactical Marines to Dire Avengers. I'd happily charge Hive Tyrants and Riptides as well, if the Overlord is reasonably intact. They don't have the attacks to reliably take him out, and if they do decide to smash, they need a 3+ followed by a 4+ and then a 5+ to make it explode. If they can't, well, then it's four warscythe strikes to the face.

Any unit with grenades (read: pretty much any Space Marine variant) can just spam the vehicle to death.

With the big threats nowadays being things like Knights (can't fight), Strength D weapons (will just straight kill him) and Daemon Summoning (will eventually wear him down and can't be swept), his purpose is very limited. Depending on the army, there might only be one thing on the table worth charging. That's a lot to ask for something around 200 points depending on upgrades.

I personally like running the barge as an AP3 gun platform now. I use the buff to the fullest and just shoot out 5 AP3 shots each turn.

Resonance wrote:
I ran the annihilation nexus the other day and it was nightfighting which made it absolutely rubbish, everything had a super cover save - so unless im missing some rules about hte model or playing nightfighting wrong - i will never take it again, on the off chance that i have to do nightfighting again.

I'm sure in a day time game it would go gangbusters though. i just find the risk to high that it will be nightfighting and a large chunk of my force will be wasted.

Night fighting only lasts for one turn if its rolled on turn 1.

I think the command barge is supposed to be, you know, commanding, eliminating Necron's vulnerability to being swept with the command wave.

I give gauntlet and warscythe and have it run and mostly kill objective holders, it works exceptionally great at that

 krodarklorr wrote:
I personally like running the barge as an AP3 gun platform now. I use the buff to the fullest and just shoot out 5 AP3 shots each turn.

What sort of wargear options do you use? Do you find something like the Phase Shifter to still be worthwhile?

 krodarklorr wrote:
I personally like running the barge as an AP3 gun platform now. I use the buff to the fullest and just shoot out 5 AP3 shots each turn.

The problem with that is what can you shoot at that won't just charge you, with 12" range on the staff if you shoot a unit then it'll just charge you if it isn't dead and then your stuck in combat forever or until they kill you, you aren't winning any combat with 3 str5 attacks even a tau squad would hold you down indefinately.

The shooty barge is a nice idea but impractical, the lord needs the scythe so it has a chance to win combats against throwaway units your opponent can just throw into it without repercussions. Now the str7 ap2 flamer makes your barge have great shooting for 1 turn, and it's hard to find a situation where you can't kill 30pts worth of troops with that ridiculous flamer and the barges speed.

Requizen wrote:
Any unit with grenades (read: pretty much any Space Marine variant) can just spam the vehicle to death.

With the big threats nowadays being things like Knights (can't fight), Strength D weapons (will just straight kill him) and Daemon Summoning (will eventually wear him down and can't be swept), his purpose is very limited. Depending on the army, there might only be one thing on the table worth charging. That's a lot to ask for something around 200 points depending on upgrades.

The Barge is AV13, so krak grenades can't hurt it. There might be a single melta bomb in there, but even that still needs to hit, penetrate and 'splode, which is a 20% chance or so. As for the Knight, I definitely wouldn't charge in the Barge solo, but supporting Wraith and Scarabs? Sure! It only has three attacks at WS4, and it still needs to wound, so on average it'll just barely kill him, and if it doesn't those four WS5 S7 armourbane attacks will probably take off a hull point or two. This will also let the bugs do a number on the monster undisturbed.

In any case, spending 200 points on him is probably overkill; just stick give him a warscythe and stop at 155. Which similarly costed units pose any kind of threat to him?

Okapi wrote:

The Barge is AV13, so krak grenades can't hurt it.

only AV11 in the back (where grenades hit).

 Nehekhare wrote:

Okapi wrote:

The Barge is AV13, so krak grenades can't hurt it.

only AV11 in the back (where grenades hit).

Chariots are always hit on front armor during assaults

Okapi wrote:

Requizen wrote:
In any case, spending 200 points on him is probably overkill; just stick give him a warscythe and stop at 155. Which similarly costed units pose any kind of threat to him

I agree with this, 155 points for a fast durable unit that digs out small squads of backfield objective holders and easily pops tanks is pretty good.

If your opponent plays larger squads with no tanks he would probably be useless.

Okapi wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Any unit with grenades (read: pretty much any Space Marine variant) can just spam the vehicle to death.

With the big threats nowadays being things like Knights (can't fight), Strength D weapons (will just straight kill him) and Daemon Summoning (will eventually wear him down and can't be swept), his purpose is very limited. Depending on the army, there might only be one thing on the table worth charging. That's a lot to ask for something around 200 points depending on upgrades.

The Barge is AV13, so krak grenades can't hurt it. There might be a single melta bomb in there, but even that still needs to hit, penetrate and 'splode, which is a 20% chance or so. As for the Knight, I definitely wouldn't charge in the Barge solo, but supporting Wraith and Scarabs? Sure! It only has three attacks at WS4, and it still needs to wound, so on average it'll just barely kill him, and if it doesn't those four WS5 S7 armourbane attacks will probably take off a hull point or two. This will also let the bugs do a number on the monster undisturbed.

In any case, spending 200 points on him is probably overkill; just stick give him a warscythe and stop at 155. Which similarly costed units pose any kind of threat to him?

Absolutely agree with this, a barebones CCB with a war scythe is a fast skimmer that due to negligible shooting can jink and flat out all day, grab distant objectives and is a huge threat to vehicles and backfield artillery. No need to pay too much for him.

I'm thinking 170 for a scythe and it will not die. The other upgrades just seem to expensive.

If I go down to 6 immortals and 4 units of 5 flayed ones I could fit in the barge and increase by tomb blades to 2 units of 4.

The barge is also a great way to hit things with the ST7 AP2 Template. It's way different than what it was though.

I think the Destroyer Lord get's overlooked to much the guy is basically a Non-Monstrous Creature MC.

Like you can almost make him unkillable and he can be a beast in CC, Destroyer Lords are really where the CC beasts are but there's no stand out unit that's all things.

Hollismason wrote:
The barge is also a great way to hit things with the ST7 AP2 Template. It's way different than what it was though.

I think the Destroyer Lord get's overlooked to much the guy is basically a Non-Monstrous Creature MC.

Like you can almost make him unkillable and he can be a beast in CC, Destroyer Lords are really where the CC beasts are but there's no stand out unit that's all things.

He's hard to get across the table now that he's Jet. If he stick with Destroyers he can boogie along pretty well with Thrust moves, but there's no more sticking him with Wraiths and just zipping across from A to B.

I agree however he does have the deep strike ability, and is incredibly resilient although this could lead to him getting bogged down by fearless mob.

I still think the best unit to pair with the DL are the flayed ones. cheap ablative wounds that help him tear through fearless infantry.

He seems pretty decent with Praetorians as well, making them an immediate threat to anything in power or terminator armour.

PE is half wasted by shred though, whereas it is amazing with rending.

bodazoka wrote:
I still think the best unit to pair with the DL are the flayed ones. cheap ablative wounds that help him tear through fearless infantry.

The Legion of Horror idea also works really well thematically.

Saying you can't move him across the board with Wraiths is an exaggeration... They lose fleet, but they didn't even have that rule last edition.

Only major issue is not being able to put him up front with perfect reliability, and honestly that's never what I took him for. He's there to add preferred enemy and a reliable source of AP2 Armourbane to clear assault targets quicker.

He's even better now that he can replace the flip a coin for it to work Mindshackle Scarabs of last edition with an actual invulnerable save and the option for IWND, meaning that challenges against combat monsters who'd previously shred him if the Mindshackle test failed get at least one 4++/6+++ even when targeted by a force weapon.

What's the new recommendation for long range high strength shots? Doomsday Ark or Doom Scythe? Night Shroud? Pylon is attractive but a bit to pricey, in cash, for my taste right now.
Has anyone tried the Anni Nexus formation?

Heavy destroyers are probably the most improved of the long range high str stuff. They're all good though.

Question - Would you guys prefer running 6 models of Canoptek Wraiths as one unit, or as 2 units with 3 models in each?

What are the advantages and disadvantages with the two options?

jay_mo wrote:
Question - Would you guys prefer running 6 models of Canoptek Wraiths as one unit, or as 2 units with 3 models in each?

What are the advantages and disadvantages with the two options?

The correct answer is 3 units of 6 as decided by the Internet.

TompiQ wrote:

jay_mo wrote:
Question - Would you guys prefer running 6 models of Canoptek Wraiths as one unit, or as 2 units with 3 models in each?

What are the advantages and disadvantages with the two options?

The correct answer is 3 units of 6 as decided by the Internet.

Had to log in to agree with this. Such a brutal list. A unit of six is nice because any opponent can thin down a unit by putting a few wounds on, even with the 3++. Once you kill one or two, a unit of 3 wraiths is pretty much...gone.

Ferros wrote:
What's the new recommendation for long range high strength shots? Doomsday Ark or Doom Scythe? Night Shroud? Pylon is attractive but a bit to pricey, in cash, for my taste right now.
Has anyone tried the Anni Nexus formation?

Heavy destroyers have been putting in work for me so far, pretty much are the all-stars of my games. Last few games Ive run a destroyer cult + a normal HS squad of Heavy destroyers + an anni nexus with wraiths to mop up. It's been working well. This week im going to drop the cult for a second squad of wraiths and just spam heavy destroyers and see how that works.

As for the anni nexus I like it as a way to get more HS if I already max out like say with 3 squads of heavy destroyers. Barges are still good, despite what people will tell you. I've yet to be impressed with the doomsday ark but its something that scares people and makes a decent area denial weapon or something people pour shots into instead of things like wraiths and destroyers which I'm ok with.

Has anyone worked with Orikan + Shieldguard at all? I've run it a couple times now, and while it's durable, there's no real way to get it across the board. I used it as an unkillable objective squatter and as semi mobile cover for my Destroyers, as few things will voluntarily get close to them lest they get charged by the unkillable shield wall.

I've been going back and forth between that and the Conclave of the Burning One (kitted out with Phase Shifters and Solar Staff) as what Deathstar I want to bring. Both are tough, the Conclave has shooting + Gaze, but the Orikanstar is more durable and better at killing most things in Assault.

 luke1705 wrote:

TompiQ wrote:

jay_mo wrote:
Question - Would you guys prefer running 6 models of Canoptek Wraiths as one unit, or as 2 units with 3 models in each?

What are the advantages and disadvantages with the two options?

The correct answer is 3 units of 6 as decided by the Internet.

Had to log in to agree with this. Such a brutal list. A unit of six is nice because any opponent can thin down a unit by putting a few wounds on, even with the 3++. Once you kill one or two, a unit of 3 wraiths is pretty much...gone.

Disagree. I prefer spamming min units and usually vanilla load out or TransD on wraiths. I love the Spyder. And once the spam count goes high enough you start to get great board coverage with all the scarabs + spyders. But sure for just a 2 unit wraithwing with a specified role, the 6 wraiths can definitely be the right call.