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 krodarklorr wrote:


1. Voidreaper adds fleshbane and master crafted to the warscythe. No one uses generic Overlords unless required. Much less give them upgrades such as that. Plus, if he's in CC with a GC, rest in many pieces. He'll likely do 1 or 2 wounds then get stomped out of existence.

2. Transdimensional Beamers on Harvest Wraiths are the Necron's ID weapon. True, but they replace Whip Coils, are more expensive, and are not reliable.

3. A Scarab swarm (from a Spyder farm list or Retribution Phalanx) can drown a MC/GMC in attacks and tarpit them turn after turn. They will likely do no damage and then die in droves to stomps. If it's an MC, they may tarpit for a little while.

4. The C'Tan Shard of the Nightbringer is very good at monster-hunting, with fleshbane and a Gaze of Death leadership attack that ignores cover and armor saves and can deal multiple wounds. It's good at monster hunting if he ever gets there. Any other MC/GC worth anything will not let him get close, and watch him die to bolt guns.

5. Deathmarks are also potent at dealing with any one single MC/GMC. Kind of. They can do moderate damage to a single MC/GC.

1. Generic Overlords/D. Lords are much more common than named Overlords. Voidreaper slams MCs and does double/triple damage against GMCs as compared to regular warscythes. Keep the Overlord alive for one turn from Stomps (with LOS) and you can kill a GMC.

2. Beamers are great on Wraiths against an army of multi-wound targets and/or TEQs. Whipcoils are very overrated. Whether or not beamers are a valid choice depends on what you expect to face.

3. The Retribution Phalanx's scarab unit can keep a GMC tied up indefinitely and finish the GMC in 3 turns. Have you even tested the matchup or are you just theory-hammering?

4. I should have included in my original comment that the Conclave is the delivery mechanism for the Nightbringer. If you have good tarpitters in your army then you can force matchups with your Conclave. And any MC/GMC cannot afford to ignore the Gaze of Death attack.

5. Deathmarks are great in terms of points for the amount of damage they deliver to a MC/GMC.

I would just like to add that the Retri. Phalanx scarabs are very useful, for killing MCs and Walkers. There has been 2 occasions that I have killed 2 Imperial Knights with them by getting around behind it, and I have tied up many a MC with them

I orginally posted this in the Army List forum, but realized since I'm using existing models and don't have much room to actually adjust, what I should really be asking for is advice on how necrons play in 7th, especially in a list like I have below.

this will be my first 7th ed game with Necrons (and only a couple removed from my first game of 7th ed period). My grand ambition with this list is to have all 60 of my warriors on the table, which I haven't done since 4th edition.

First question - I've got a Reclamation Legion, and a Flayer Auxillary. Does making a list entirely out of formations that meet the parameters of a CAD mean you get the standard CAD benefits too?

Since it's now it's own entry and not a DT for the HQ, can the Overlord in the Legion get on a command barge?

Reclamation Legion-
HQ
Overlord (with undecided wargear)
Troops
20x Warriors
20x Warriors
20x Warriors
10x Immortals (Gauss Blasters)
10x Immortals (Tesla Carbines)
3x Tomb Blades (gonna have to build and paint these fast)

Flayed One Auxiliary
Elite
14x Flayed Ones

What I'd like most is advice on how to equip the Overlord, and the current state of game for equiping tomb blades. Any general advice on how to play super foot sloggers (98 models T4 models at 1500 points! Woo hoo!). I know that even with the Decurion (along with the +1 to reanimation protocols, everything withing 12' of the overlord gets to reroll 1s on reanimation), this a far from optimum list. Lack of mobility is going to be thing, as well as only having weight of fire to deal with most threats, especially CC pain that might end up sweeping whole warrior squads at once.

My thinking is that the point sacrifice to add a Royal Court formation, bringing in another overlord, lord, and cryptek would not be worth it, considering my goals, as nice as it would be to have a character leading every squad.

Would it be better to run the Flayed Ones as 2 x 7 instead of 1 x 14?

I'm thinking that a Veil of Darkness on the Overlord, and have him deepstrike in, and then the one use teleportation will help with some of the mobility, but I'm behind the curve on how the meta has shaped their gear choices.

Any and all C&C appreciated!

 krodarklorr wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Night Shrouds are still fairly durable though compared to other fliers.

Absolutely. And its still too pricey.

Also do realize that AA isn't used anymore outside of anyone using Onager Dune Crawlers. That enables time for them to bomb things and get their points back.

Am I the only one who misses the fact you can't have veil and shackles in the conclave with the night bringer at the same time anymore?

That's a tough one. T8 is awesome but we need the Veil more for movement.

You can still be equally survivable with a Shroud on one of the Crypteks. That delicious T7 2+/4++/4+++ is great.

col_impact wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:


1. Voidreaper adds fleshbane and master crafted to the warscythe. No one uses generic Overlords unless required. Much less give them upgrades such as that. Plus, if he's in CC with a GC, rest in many pieces. He'll likely do 1 or 2 wounds then get stomped out of existence.

2. Transdimensional Beamers on Harvest Wraiths are the Necron's ID weapon. True, but they replace Whip Coils, are more expensive, and are not reliable.

3. A Scarab swarm (from a Spyder farm list or Retribution Phalanx) can drown a MC/GMC in attacks and tarpit them turn after turn. They will likely do no damage and then die in droves to stomps. If it's an MC, they may tarpit for a little while.

4. The C'Tan Shard of the Nightbringer is very good at monster-hunting, with fleshbane and a Gaze of Death leadership attack that ignores cover and armor saves and can deal multiple wounds. It's good at monster hunting if he ever gets there. Any other MC/GC worth anything will not let him get close, and watch him die to bolt guns.

5. Deathmarks are also potent at dealing with any one single MC/GMC. Kind of. They can do moderate damage to a single MC/GC.

1. Generic Overlords/D. Lords are much more common than named Overlords. Voidreaper slams MCs and does double/triple damage against GMCs as compared to regular warscythes. Keep the Overlord alive for one turn from Stomps (with LOS) and you can kill a GMC.

2. Beamers are great on Wraiths against an army of multi-wound targets and/or TEQs. Whipcoils are very overrated. Whether or not beamers are a valid choice depends on what you expect to face.

3. The Retribution Phalanx's scarab unit can keep a GMC tied up indefinitely and finish the GMC in 3 turns. Have you even tested the matchup or are you just theory-hammering?

4. I should have included in my original comment that the Conclave is the delivery mechanism for the Nightbringer. If you have good tarpitters in your army then you can force matchups with your Conclave. And any MC/GMC cannot afford to ignore the Gaze of Death attack.

5. Deathmarks are great in terms of points for the amount of damage they deliver to a MC/GMC.

1. Depends on the GC. A Wraithknight with Wraithcannons? Maybe. With any other wargear, such as the D weapon in CC? Or a Stormsurge? Highly, highly unlikely. Though I am salty towards the abomination that is the Stormsurge.

2. I wouldn't say great. You have at most 6 shots from a unit, and a measly Strength of 4. So, not the most reliable when it comes to actually hurting anything.

3. I've sent 12+ scarabs at a single Wraithknight and done maybe 1 wound. Wounding on a 6, and trying to get through a 3+ armor and 5+ FNP while then surviving S6 stomps isn't likely to merit much. If they can keep coming back indefinitely, than that helps. I wouldn't rely on it to kill a GC in 3 turns, however.

4. And the conclave received a slight nerf in the FAQ (can't take as many relics as we'd like), as well as still being very over priced and relying on not scattering when using the Veil. It can work, sure. But when you have to roll higher than a 10 on 3 dice (not that hard, I know) but then get through a possible Invuln and then FNP, it is, again, not as reliable as you might think. This is also assuming they don't kill the conclave with fire asap. It's not that hard to kill.

5. They are probably the only option I'd claim as somewhat reliable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Night Shrouds are still fairly durable though compared to other fliers.

Absolutely. And its still too pricey.

Also do realize that AA isn't used anymore outside of anyone using Onager Dune Crawlers. That enables time for them to bomb things and get their points back.

Umm, Crimson Hunters. In fact, those are quite popular.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Massaen wrote:
Am I the only one who misses the fact you can't have veil and shackles in the conclave with the night bringer at the same time anymore?

You are not. It was an unnecessary nerf to the only method of making the C'Tan viable.

My experiences largely match with what Krodarklorr says. We kill vehicles dead. MC's (particularly flying) are our codex's weakness. Do your best to ignore them and mitigate their effect on the game while scoring objectives.
Thank heavens, no one seems to be bringing the "Pacific Rim" list anymore.

 Anpu-adom wrote:
My experiences largely match with what Krodarklorr says. We kill vehicles dead. MC's (particularly flying) are our codex's weakness. Do your best to ignore them and mitigate their effect on the game while scoring objectives.
Thank heavens, no one seems to be bringing the "Pacific Rim" list anymore.

Wait, I've been away for a few months. What is this "Pacific Rim" list you speak of?

Do the shackles have to be in the same detachment as the Ctan?

Could you run a mephrit royal court or CAD with a cryptek with shackles and affect the Conclave while it has veil?

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Anpu-adom wrote:
My experiences largely match with what Krodarklorr says. We kill vehicles dead. MC's (particularly flying) are our codex's weakness. Do your best to ignore them and mitigate their effect on the game while scoring objectives.
Thank heavens, no one seems to be bringing the "Pacific Rim" list anymore.

Wait, I've been away for a few months. What is this "Pacific Rim" list you speak of?

2 Eldar Wraithknights and 2-4 Tau Riptides

 krodarklorr wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:


1. Voidreaper adds fleshbane and master crafted to the warscythe. No one uses generic Overlords unless required. Much less give them upgrades such as that. Plus, if he's in CC with a GC, rest in many pieces. He'll likely do 1 or 2 wounds then get stomped out of existence.

2. Transdimensional Beamers on Harvest Wraiths are the Necron's ID weapon. True, but they replace Whip Coils, are more expensive, and are not reliable.

3. A Scarab swarm (from a Spyder farm list or Retribution Phalanx) can drown a MC/GMC in attacks and tarpit them turn after turn. They will likely do no damage and then die in droves to stomps. If it's an MC, they may tarpit for a little while.

4. The C'Tan Shard of the Nightbringer is very good at monster-hunting, with fleshbane and a Gaze of Death leadership attack that ignores cover and armor saves and can deal multiple wounds. It's good at monster hunting if he ever gets there. Any other MC/GC worth anything will not let him get close, and watch him die to bolt guns.

5. Deathmarks are also potent at dealing with any one single MC/GMC. Kind of. They can do moderate damage to a single MC/GC.

1. Generic Overlords/D. Lords are much more common than named Overlords. Voidreaper slams MCs and does double/triple damage against GMCs as compared to regular warscythes. Keep the Overlord alive for one turn from Stomps (with LOS) and you can kill a GMC.

2. Beamers are great on Wraiths against an army of multi-wound targets and/or TEQs. Whipcoils are very overrated. Whether or not beamers are a valid choice depends on what you expect to face.

3. The Retribution Phalanx's scarab unit can keep a GMC tied up indefinitely and finish the GMC in 3 turns. Have you even tested the matchup or are you just theory-hammering?

4. I should have included in my original comment that the Conclave is the delivery mechanism for the Nightbringer. If you have good tarpitters in your army then you can force matchups with your Conclave. And any MC/GMC cannot afford to ignore the Gaze of Death attack.

5. Deathmarks are great in terms of points for the amount of damage they deliver to a MC/GMC.

1. Depends on the GC. A Wraithknight with Wraithcannons? Maybe. With any other wargear, such as the D weapon in CC? Or a Stormsurge? Highly, highly unlikely. Though I am salty towards the abomination that is the Stormsurge.

2. I wouldn't say great. You have at most 6 shots from a unit, and a measly Strength of 4. So, not the most reliable when it comes to actually hurting anything.

3. I've sent 12+ scarabs at a single Wraithknight and done maybe 1 wound. Wounding on a 6, and trying to get through a 3+ armor and 5+ FNP while then surviving S6 stomps isn't likely to merit much. If they can keep coming back indefinitely, than that helps. I wouldn't rely on it to kill a GC in 3 turns, however.

4. And the conclave received a slight nerf in the FAQ (can't take as many relics as we'd like), as well as still being very over priced and relying on not scattering when using the Veil. It can work, sure. But when you have to roll higher than a 10 on 3 dice (not that hard, I know) but then get through a possible Invuln and then FNP, it is, again, not as reliable as you might think. This is also assuming they don't kill the conclave with fire asap. It's not that hard to kill.

5. They are probably the only option I'd claim as somewhat reliable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Night Shrouds are still fairly durable though compared to other fliers.

Absolutely. And its still too pricey.

Also do realize that AA isn't used anymore outside of anyone using Onager Dune Crawlers. That enables time for them to bomb things and get their points back.

Umm, Crimson Hunters. In fact, those are quite popular.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Massaen wrote:
Am I the only one who misses the fact you can't have veil and shackles in the conclave with the night bringer at the same time anymore?

You are not. It was an unnecessary nerf to the only method of making the C'Tan viable.

Crimson Hunters really aren't that popular because those are points that can go to Warp Spiders or Bikes. You entirely exaggerate on what number of Crimson Hunters we can expect.

 Massaen wrote:
Do the shackles have to be in the same detachment as the Ctan?

Could you run a mephrit royal court or CAD with a cryptek with shackles and affect the Conclave while it has veil?

No, they don't have to be in the same detachment, but there currently is no way to run Meprhit units outside of the detachment (which is meh) or the formations (which all suck aside from the Conclave). There aren't any rules for running a "Meprhit CAD" or "Mephrit Royal Court". Maybe there will be in the FAQ.

 Anpu-adom wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Anpu-adom wrote:
My experiences largely match with what Krodarklorr says. We kill vehicles dead. MC's (particularly flying) are our codex's weakness. Do your best to ignore them and mitigate their effect on the game while scoring objectives.
Thank heavens, no one seems to be bringing the "Pacific Rim" list anymore.

Wait, I've been away for a few months. What is this "Pacific Rim" list you speak of?

2 Eldar Wraithknights and 2-4 Tau Riptides

Ha, that's awesome. And by awesome I mean whoever plays that can die in a fire.

I compiled a listing of the Necron armies in the upcoming ETC.

Lots of Harvests, lots of Tomb Blades, and lots of Royal Courts. Destroyer Cult is present but not as popular as I would expect. Culexus, IKs, and Bunkers are popular add-ons. The basic tourney list has 1-3 Harvest and either lots of Tomb Blades or a Destroyer Cult and optionally a Royal Court.

1) Most lists followed the pattern described above. Those that adhered to this pattern were mostly Decurion, but there were a couple of CAD.

This list has Decurion with Harvest and Royal Court and an IK detachment

This list has Decurion with Destroyer Cult and 2 Harvests

This list has a Decurion with 13 Tomb Blades, a Destroyer Cult, and a Harvest

This list has Decurion with 3x5 Tomb Blades and 3 Harvests

This list has Decurion with 3 x 7 Tomb Blades, a Harvest, and a Destroyer Cult

This list has a CAD with 11 Tomb Blades and a Bunker, a Royal Court, A Harvest, and a Culexus

This list has a CAD with a Bunker and a Night Scythe, a Royal Court, and a Harvest

This list has a Decurion with 2 Harvests, an IK, and a Culexus

This list has a Decurion wih a Royal Court, a Harvest, and a Destroyer Cult

This list has a Decurion with 2x3 Tomb Blades, 3 Harvests, and a Psykana Division

This list has a Decurion with 3x3 Tomb Blades and 5 Lychguard, 3 Harvests, and 7 Flayed ones

This list has a Decurion with 3 Harvests and a Destroyer Cult


2) There are a couple of Spyder farm lists.

This list has CAD with 3x3 Tomb Blades, medium Spyder Farm, Harvest, Royal Court, and Culexus

This list has a CAD with 3x3 Tomb Blades and 3x3 Spyders, a Royal Court, and a Harvest with 9 Scarabs



3) There are a couple of Necron Air lists.

This list has CAD with 4x5 Immortals in NS and a Royal Court

This list has a CAD with 15 Tomb Blades, a 4 Doom Scythe Deathbringer Air Superiority Detachment, a Harvest, and a Culexus


4) The Retribution Phalanx makes a showing.

This list has CAD with Praetorians and a Bunker, a Royal Court, a Retribution Phalanx, and a Culexus


5) The Judicator Battalion makes a showing in a couple of lists.

This list has Decurion with 22 Tomb Blades, a Judicator Battalion, and a Harvest

This list has a Decurion with 2 Harvests, a Judicator Battalion, and a Culexus


6) Also the Royal Court Disco makes a showing.

This list has a CAD and Decurion with 8 Tomb Blades, a large Royal Court, and 5 Flayed ones. The list has a whopping 6 war scythes.

That's a lot to compile, and I thank you for it.

I'll give my thoughts on the lists when I get home and have a keyboard in front of me.

ROYAL COURT DISCO INFERNO!
Not how I would have made it, but
<3

is anyone else constantly disappointed with Deathmarks? I play against Tau, Space Wolves, and Skitarii a lot and every time I have brought deathmarks they inflicted a wound or two after DS and immediately died.

How are these supposed to be used? Is DSing the way to use it? What should they be used against?

Qlanth wrote:
is anyone else constantly disappointed with Deathmarks? I play against Tau, Space Wolves, and Skitarii a lot and every time I have brought deathmarks they inflicted a wound or two after DS and immediately died.

How are these supposed to be used? Is DSing the way to use it? What should they be used against?

You're probably just getting unlucky. My Deathmarks usually survive volley after volley of Tau fire before finally kicking the bucket, all while the rest of my forces are walking up the board. And they typically do quite a bit. Heck, my friend had his two drones out front of his Riptide, and after both were killed by my Deathmarks, it ran off the board.

Also, it depends on what you're shooting them at. Typically you wanna aim for higher toughness targets. So, Riptides/Stormsurges, the back end of a group of TWC (since they're more likely not to have Stormshields), and whatever the MC things are for Admech.

I feel like Deathmarks are one of the biggest units in the book when it comes to dice rolls. Your DS scatter has to not be terrible, if it is, they either suck or at the very least are halved in efficiency. If you're shooting at a WK or Riptide, you need those Rends, and if you don't get them, then your're just going to plink off armor and feel pretty pointless.

If you don't feel like you roll average or better normally, they might not be the best choice, Though, statistics say you're probably just focusing on the bad times, but that's just your choice.

How many are you guys usually bringing when you put them on the table? Full sized unit?

I LOVE MSU Deathmarks. It helped against Skitarii Pods (not an issue any longer though), helps with throwing wounds on TWC (as already stated) and allows more wounds against Riptides along with Stormsurges and Wraithknights (for one turn at least).

They're definitely one of the unsung heroes of the codex. They and Destroyers can totally kill anything together.

Qlanth wrote:
How many are you guys usually bringing when you put them on the table? Full sized unit?

I used to do a unit of 10, but after I scattered and destroyed the whole unit, I started doing 2 5 man squads.

I think Deathmarks are one of the units that got worse. When I ran them, my opponents usually just let me go first. They'd show up before anything my opponent had in reserve wanted to kill. Even if I did get them in after, he'd just Deep Strike the unit where it would be risky to put the Deathmarks, especially in larger games where there are 100+ models per side. While they're great at what they do, they're fairly easy to counter now.

 Akar wrote:
I think Deathmarks are one of the units that got worse. When I ran them, my opponents usually just let me go first. They'd show up before anything my opponent had in reserve wanted to kill. Even if I did get them in after, he'd just Deep Strike the unit where it would be risky to put the Deathmarks, especially in larger games where there are 100+ models per side. While they're great at what they do, they're fairly easy to counter now.

I think they got better, imo. The interception is now usable, and they're more durable because of the update to RP. Plus, they got a point cheaper to boot. Sure some armies don't have to worry much about them, but what about armies with Drop Pods? Or stuff that starts on the board in the first place? Like Riptides and Wraithknights.

Still love my Deathmarks + Destroyer Lord combo.
Nothing like rerolling a 1 into a 6.

 skoffs wrote:
Still love my Deathmarks + Destroyer Lord combo.
Nothing like rerolling a 1 into a 6.

The new FAQs heavily imply that a DLord can't do Ethereal Interception with the Deathmarks. Lots of responses have been "unit special rules don't affect ICs unless they explicitly state otherwise". You can still DS them together, though.

Requizen wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Still love my Deathmarks + Destroyer Lord combo.
Nothing like rerolling a 1 into a 6.

The new FAQs heavily imply that a DLord can't do Ethereal Interception with the Deathmarks. Lots of responses have been "unit special rules don't affect ICs unless they explicitly state otherwise". You can still DS them together, though.

So don't Intercept with them. Problem solved.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Still love my Deathmarks + Destroyer Lord combo.
Nothing like rerolling a 1 into a 6.

The new FAQs heavily imply that a DLord can't do Ethereal Interception with the Deathmarks. Lots of responses have been "unit special rules don't affect ICs unless they explicitly state otherwise". You can still DS them together, though.

So don't Intercept with them. Problem solved.

Yeah agreed, just saying. I know I was doing it well into the FAQ cycle until someone pointed it out to me, wanted to save others the awkwardness.

 krodarklorr wrote:
I think they got better, imo. The interception is now usable, and they're more durable because of the update to RP. Plus, they got a point cheaper to boot. Sure some armies don't have to worry much about them, but what about armies with Drop Pods? Or stuff that starts on the board in the first place? Like Riptides and Wraithknights.

Against these listed units, you make a case for having them in you list based on two things. How often are you actually playing against these units and you aren't taking something else to deal with them.

Drop Pods in general took a hit with the Draft FAQ changing Battle-Brothers. So the only things to really be afraid of arriving in Drop Pods are Melta's going for First Blood on a vehicle, or the possible Skyhammer formation (or it's variants). Against any of the 'Big' guys, it's a tough call. My local meta doesn't have very many players who run this, and I don't run into them often enough to justify having them in a TAC list. I also run enough Warriors/Tomb Blades/Flayed Ones which do a good enough job when I do. Not everyone's choice, I'm just giving my side.

The 2 advantages of arriving now are that we get to shoot when we arrive, interrupting our opponents turn and it avoids being shot at from Interceptors when we do it. This is more of a personal preference, but I'll take the old Hunters from Hyperspace rule any day. The Deathmarks remain a threat if they didn't kill their target. While most opponents won't like having Rapid Firing snipers in the middle of their army, they are at least free to ignore them under the current rules because they become just another sniper unit after they've done their thing. It also became VERY effective once you started taking multiples, because the units were able to share targets. Marking something you wanted to kill and having the other unit pick a character (taking the 2+ to wound to whatever unit he joined) worry the opponent for the rest of the game was exceptionally great.

Not going to argue that RP made them durable, but it also made the rest of the army durable. So it becomes a simple matter of getting your points back from Deathmarks before they die. As stated for me, my opponents learned simple ways to deal with them to the point where they weren't worth their investment.