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But even when they were fleshy that type of vehicle wouldn't make sense, as they were supposed to be obsessed with self-preservation and not dying. A race like that would not design their military vehicles in such a way that it exposes its pilots to harm, and they would automate as much as they can as to reduce casualties.

Their vehicle designs simply do not make sense, in neither the original fluff interpretation nor the newer one.
To me, its clear that GW did not base their designs on the background, but on "lol Warring senile space robot Egypt."

Why would anyone trust their safety to flimsy metal walls, when they could be protected by impenetrable* quantum shielding?

And if you're protected by impenetrable* quantum shielding, you might as well have a clear view of your enemies being vaporized by our superior** firepower?

*guarenteed to block any shot or die trying
**rumours of new technologies developed by pointy-eared younger races are unverified rumours. Our Codex claims our weapons have been the best since ever, you have no reason to doubt our propaganda!

Yeh, impenetrable until it gets penetrated. Then you're fethed.
Not that penetration matters in this meta anyway.
Its like one of those Russian army memes "you see ivanotek, no armor plating aids in seeing enemy, before we get shot through glorious invisible wall"

You'd think that a logical race obsessed with self-preservation (hence the appeal of biotransference) would put a metal wall behind the force field. But that would make sense.

Anyway, on topic, I generally prefer to use scythes to deliver my overlord into combat, if he's attached to a unit of lychguard. Otherwise he tends to stay out of combat, even if he's armed with a warscythe. Because warscythes are cool.
I used to attach the destroyer lord to wraiths, but that's a bit tricky now that they are beasts (they keep changing their unit type. First jetbikes, then jump infantry now beasts for some stupid reason. Make up your mind GW)
I guess praets are the only valid retinue now, as destroyers generally want to be shooting as much as possible. There should be a cc option for destroyers.

Hello, again, fellow Necrons. Played a game last week, in which I fielded my dreaded Tesla-Cult. (didn't manage to bring my MonoLych, due to some limitations)



I played versus Deathguard chaos warband with Helldrakes Aux and a DP. The Annihilation Barges turned out to be pretty good at killing the rhinos, while my Ghost Arks were litterally amazing, survivable units bringing a LOT of shooting. The Destroyers were not as usefull as I wanted them to be, they were very vulnerable versus the 2 Helldrakes and the ammount of plasma going arround and I couldn't get off any good shooting. Overall, the vehicles (ghost arks + anni barges) are really survivable (well, i guess depending on the opponent, but versus the deathguard they were quite hardcore). I jinked just about every time he pulled the trigger on one of my vehicles, I didn't want to get greedy. The Necron Lord was in the Wraith unit till the begining of the second turn, when he solar pulsed for the Wraiths. (Which really worked really well, since they did get in assault in Turn 3 without any casualties). I ended the game having lost all of my regular Destroyers,1 Annihilation Barge and some Wraiths. The Wraiths cleaned up quite some Marine Squads (together with the D.Lord obviously). I'll admit my Jink saves were probably better than average, but it wasn't hard at all to deny any melta shots. Some Chaos terminators with combi-melta DS'ed behind my vehicles, but Deathmarks killed one of them and I ended up surviving through Jinking and killing them next turn.
All in all, the list performed very well, exept for the Destroyers who underperformed, although it's reasonable, given how they were the only vulnerable/easy to shoot unit in my list. All in all, it seems like a good list which might catch someone off guard, given there's 5 AV 13 jinking vehicles, a quite survivable AND capable deathstar and the Destroyer wing.

This week, I'm playing some Dark Angels/Blood Angels list for a change of pace, but I'm just buying time for my Mono-Lych list to be ready (models-wise).

EDIT: Is it possible to have two Overlords with VoD? Or, have an Overlord with a VoD and a Royal Court with Obyron included. If it is possible, how would you like it in a Lychstar? A possible turn 1 blink with Obyron and then, if need be, a second one (the VoD, which can even take us out of combat in case we're stuck in a tarpit).

EDIT: Is it possible to have two Overlords with VoD?

Not in one Detachment. Edit [Correction]: The following Italics was incorrect in my post. You could ally in another Necron force and put a VoD on an Overlord in there... but that Overlord couldn't join any units in your Primary Detachment.

Or, have an Overlord with a VoD and a Royal Court with Obyron included.

Yes, you can. Obyron comes with a Ghostwalk Mantle, which while similar is not the same Artefact of the Aeons.

If it is possible, how would you like it in a Lychstar? A possible turn 1 blink with Obyron and then, if need be, a second one (the VoD, which can even take us out of combat in case we're stuck in a tarpit).

A LychStar with both Obyron and a VoD Overlord is a great (albeit expensive) unit. Bear in mind that due to how slow they are, and that you can't charge after re-DeepStriking, that means they'll only realistically be in combat for 2, possibly 3 Game Turns of the game. Accordingly, make sure the rest of your army is able to score objectives on the basis of what you're achieving with this unit.

This contrasts sharply with most other Stars in the game meta, which have combinations of 12" movement and significant one-Game Turn killing power (ensuring they are free to move on to the next target on the subsequent turn). This isn't a salty comment! It's merely to provide a suggestion on how to think about using this unit which won't be the same as other Stars you might have seen elsewhere.

sieGermans wrote:

EDIT: Is it possible to have two Overlords with VoD?

Not in one Detachment. You could ally in another Necron force and put a VoD on an Overlord in there... but that Overlord couldn't join any units in your Primary Detachment.

The underlined is incorrect. As the two Detachments would be of the same Faction, they're free to join each other.

However, your list cannot contain two of the same unique (eg. Veil)

Hey what a good starting force to start the Necrons with?

 EnsignTuna wrote:
Hey what a good starting force to start the Necrons with?

Overview: I typed up this guide when we were talking about a new thread for necrons, and it is a guide for how to start collecting a necrons army, while not necessarily buying everything at once. It's broken up into four phases, with each phase being a playable army that uses all or almost all of the models collected thus far. Where possible I place an emphasis on thrift and an eye towards building an effective army now and laying the foundations for an effective army to come.

TL; DR Collection Order Summary

Phase 1 Getting Started
1.) Start Collecting Box

Phase 2a 1k CAD
2.) Necron Codex (Digital or used)
3.) Warriors (NIB preferably) - Congratulations you have your first CAD
4.) Canoptek Wraiths
5.) Tomb Blades (you are very likely to pay retail for these)
6.) Unit of immortals
7.) Tomb Spyder - Congratulations you can make your first decurion, though you might not play it that way immediately.

Phase 2b 1k Decurion
8.) More Canoptek Wraiths

Phase 3 1500 CAD/Decurion
9.) 2 x 5 Triarch Praetorians
10.) Ghost Arc

Phase 1 - Start collecting (retail $85, ebay usually 70$ New with free shipping)
There is nothing in this box you won't use, from the warriors to the stalker to the scarabs to the overlord. It comes with it's own formation, is around 450 points, and is a significant discount from retail. A word to the wise, the stalker is an excellent candidate to magnatize it's weapon, all three of it's weapons are good against different targets, and rather than have to proxy you can magnatize it's one weapon attachment point, it's super easy, here is a good tutorial on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JbpKSUoCn8 with the added bonus of there already a hole in the place you'll need so if you use to different diameter magnets (a large one on top of the hole, and small ones attached to the weapons) you won't have to do the predrilling.

Phase 2a - 1k Combined arms detachment (retail is $225 before tax and shipping, ebay varies but as of writing it was $158 in buy it now)
Technically all you need to have a combined arms detachment (the default force org chart) is one more troop choice (warriors or immortals), but this section is a bridge from the start collecting box to your first decurion. Even if you choose to not run a decurion, having the option to run our most competitive formation is a good goal (because your opponents won't feel bad about running formations even while they throw salt at yours). Your first two purchases should be the Necron Codex (digital is cheaper, and you can use google books/readium if you don't have an I-phone), and a unit of warriors (NIB is best for this because it will come with the extra scarabs). This will put you around 700 points depending on how you kit your overlord and and stalker. Your next purchases should be a box of Canoptek wraiths (build them with whip coils) and a box of Tomb Blades (build them with gauss blasters), both of these are excellent additions to your CAD and give you mobility it was lacking up to this point. Your final Purchases for this phase are a unit of Immortals (build them with Gauss) and a Tomb Spyder (put the guns on it, you'll rarely run it this way, but it's better to have it and not need it). Your Phase 2 CAD List should look like this (999 points):

+ HQ +
····Overlord [Phase Shifter, Warscythe]

+ Elites +
····Triarch Stalkers
······Triarch Stalker [Heat Ray]

+ Troops +
····Immortals [Gauss Blaster, 5x Immortal]
····Warriors
······11x Necron Warrior [11x Gauss Flayer]
····Warriors
······12x Necron Warrior [12x Gauss Flayer]

+ Fast Attack +
····Canoptek Scarabs [6x Canoptek Scarab]
····Canoptek Wraiths x 3
······[Whip Coils]
····Tomb Blades x 3
······[Nebuloscope, Shield Vanes, Twin-linked Gauss Blaster]

+ Heavy Support +
····Canoptek Spyders [Canoptek Spyder]

Phase 2b - 1k Decurion (Retail $47, usually around $37 on ebay)
Welcome to the majors, the only addition to the 1k CAD you need to make is a three more wraiths because you'll have to leave your stalker in the box to run a decurion (don't worry he'll be back soon, and it's worth it). Decurions are quite different from cads in the way your army will be put together, instead of individual units you will take formations that consist of multiple units, so it's less flexible in which units you get to take, but it comes with advantages that more than offset that. The first formation you'll need is your reclamation legion, which will be the core of the army. You'll also need at least one auxiliary, for which we will be using the canoptek harvest. Decurions come with a grab bag of army wide special rules, relentless, move thru cover, and enhanced repair protocols (now you repair on a 4+). In addition each formation has it's own special rules, so your reclamation legion allows it's members within 12" of your overlord to reroll ones on repair protocols. Your harvest gives your wraith, scarabs, and spyder repair protocols (there are other options but they are kind of lame), which being in a decurion bumps up to a 4+. As you can imagine this is quite a bit stronger than the 1k CAD, and most armies don't get their counters to decurions until higher points, so please decurion responsibly, unless you are facing Tau, eldar, or space marines, in which case go wild because they can take the heat. Here is a sample of what your decurion should look like:

+ Core +
····Formation: Reclamation Legion
······Immortals [Gauss Blaster, 5x Immortal]
······Overlord [Gauntlet of Fire, Phase Shifter, Warscythe]
······Tomb Blades
········3x Tomb Blade [Nebuloscope, Shield Vanes, Twin-linked Gauss Blaster]
······Warriors
········12x Necron Warrior [12x Gauss Flayer]
······Warriors
········10x Necron Warrior [10x Gauss Flayer]

+ Auxiliary +
····Formation: Canoptek Harvest [Canoptek Spyder]
······Canoptek Scarabs [6x Canoptek Scarab]
······Canoptek Wraiths
········6x Canoptek Wraith [Whip Coils]

Phase 3 - 1500pt CAD/Decurion (retail $116 around $103 on ebay)
1500pts is the common points value for friendly games, it's also where most armies will hit their stride. In order to use your stalker you'll need two 5 man units of triarch Praetorians. There is alot of debate on how to equip them, I feel the void blade/pistol option is more flexible, but in an army as short on AP 2 as necrons the Rod is also very tempting, You might go with one of each if you are on the fence. The judicator battalion has one of the most insane special rules, which allows the stalker and the prats to reroll missed hits and failed wounds/armor pen rolls on a unit designated by the stalker. You'll want to make sure to get at least 25% cover on the stalker as it will draw alot of fire. With both a judicator battalion and a Canoptek harvest, you'll be a little CC heavy, so my final reccomendation is a ghost Arc, which is a great boost to your armies shooting, and is a second vehicle for your army which will also make your stalker a bit more survivable, by giving your opponents anti-vehicle units more targets. If you took all of my advice to this point here is what your list will look like:

+ Core +
····Formation: Reclamation Legion
······Immortals [Gauss Blaster, 5x Immortal]
······Overlord [Phase Shifter, Warscythe]
······Tomb Blades
········3x Tomb Blade [Nebuloscope, Shield Vanes, Twin-linked Gauss Blaster]
······Warriors
········12x Necron Warrior [12x Gauss Flayer]
······Warriors
········Ghost Ark [2x Gauss Flayer Array]
········10x Necron Warrior [10x Gauss Flayer]

+ Auxiliary +
····Formation: Canoptek Harvest [Canoptek Spyder]
······Canoptek Scarabs [6x Canoptek Scarab]
······Canoptek Wraiths
········6x Canoptek Wraith [Whip Coils]

····Formation: Judicator Battalion
······Triarch Praetorians [5x Triarch Praetorian, Voidblade & Particle Caster]
······Triarch Praetorians [Rod of Covenant, 5x Triarch Praetorian]
······Triarch Stalkers
········Triarch Stalker [Heat Ray]

Where to go next
If you've gotten this far, I imagine you'll have played a few games decided what you like and don't like, figured out what your local meta is like, and if so your well equipped to decide what units your interested in. Whichever way you go you'll have a solid base with a fairly competitive take all comers necron list. If your not planning on doing tournaments, you might add some models that are more interesting than optimized, things like Monoliths, C'tan, or deathmarks. If you are planning on doing tournaments (generally held at 1850 points) you have two paths forward, the easiest is to focus on your armies good units and get more of them, grab another unit of tomb blades, maybe another ghost arc, maybe some more prats. The other is to get our most effective formation, the destroyer cult, which will probably (but not necessarily) replace your judicator battalion.

*edit* one other thing to mentions is the necron warrior ark phalanx is a silly good bargain, you might replace your second unit of warriors with this, since it includes warriors and a ghost ark.

Man... anyone putting Anrakyr so low on their lists must be crazy. Pylon-star doesn't work without him, and its easily a top-2 Necron list in terms of competition.

Even outside that list, I feel like Pylons are wonderful if you're willing to foot the FW cost. I bought three for the Pylonstar but have since still taken at least one in any list that includes a CAD.

Pretty good write up, guys. Hopefully you'll edit them in the new tactics thread once the final codex FAQ is released for Necrons.

However, col, I'll have to disagree with you slightly on your Must Have section. Two Canoptek Harvests are nice but not absolutely necessary. A single will do nicely in many circumstances. Therefore , I might make a minor alteration-

col_impact wrote:

Spoiler:

Necron Must Haves:
20 Warriors
5 Immortals
3 Tomb Blades
3 Wraiths
1 Canoptek Spyder
6 Scarabs (should already have 6 included with 20 warriors)
9 Destroyers
1 Destroyer Lord
1 Nemesor Zandrekh

Necron Good to Have:
+3-6 Destroyers
2-3 Heavy Destroyers
+1 Spyder
+3-6 Wraiths
+3 Scarabs (for Retribution Phalanx)
+6-9 Tomb Blades
10 Praetorians
1 Triarch Stalker
5-10 Sword and Board Lychguard
1 Orikan
1 Vargard Obyron
1 Overlord/Catacomb Command Barge

Necron Optionals:
Night Scythes/Doom Scythes
Ghost Arks
1 C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer
2 Crypteks
10 Flayed Ones
5-10 Deathmarks
1 Illuminor Szeras
1 Lord
+1 Overlord

Necron Don't Need:
Annihilation Barges
Doomsday Ark
Obelisk
Monolith
Tesseract Vault
C'tan Shard of the Deceiver
Transcendant C'tan
Anrakyr
Trazyn
Imotekh

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Man... anyone putting Anrakyr so low on their lists must be crazy. Pylon-star doesn't work without him, and its easily a top-2 Necron list in terms of competition.

Even outside that list, I feel like Pylons are wonderful if you're willing to foot the FW cost. I bought three for the Pylonstar but have since still taken at least one in any list that includes a CAD.

Mind measuring the dimensions of a Senty Pylon when you get a chance? I've been meaning to kitbash some but don't know the sizes.

Requizen wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Man... anyone putting Anrakyr so low on their lists must be crazy. Pylon-star doesn't work without him, and its easily a top-2 Necron list in terms of competition.

Even outside that list, I feel like Pylons are wonderful if you're willing to foot the FW cost. I bought three for the Pylonstar but have since still taken at least one in any list that includes a CAD.

Mind measuring the dimensions of a Senty Pylon when you get a chance? I've been meaning to kitbash some but don't know the sizes.

Literally buy/build a Night-scythe, turn its "body" sideways and you have a shockingly close approximation. Put some little legs on it so its foot-print looks roughly like a 60mm base, and you're set.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

Requizen wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Man... anyone putting Anrakyr so low on their lists must be crazy. Pylon-star doesn't work without him, and its easily a top-2 Necron list in terms of competition.

Even outside that list, I feel like Pylons are wonderful if you're willing to foot the FW cost. I bought three for the Pylonstar but have since still taken at least one in any list that includes a CAD.

Mind measuring the dimensions of a Senty Pylon when you get a chance? I've been meaning to kitbash some but don't know the sizes.

Literally buy/build a Night-scythe, turn its "body" sideways and you have a shockingly close approximation. Put some little legs on it so its foot-print looks roughly like a 60mm base, and you're set.

Wow, that's a lot larger than I thought it would be. Well, I'm sure I can figure something out.

Requizen wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

Requizen wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Man... anyone putting Anrakyr so low on their lists must be crazy. Pylon-star doesn't work without him, and its easily a top-2 Necron list in terms of competition.

Even outside that list, I feel like Pylons are wonderful if you're willing to foot the FW cost. I bought three for the Pylonstar but have since still taken at least one in any list that includes a CAD.

Mind measuring the dimensions of a Senty Pylon when you get a chance? I've been meaning to kitbash some but don't know the sizes.

Literally buy/build a Night-scythe, turn its "body" sideways and you have a shockingly close approximation. Put some little legs on it so its foot-print looks roughly like a 60mm base, and you're set.

Wow, that's a lot larger than I thought it would be. Well, I'm sure I can figure something out.

They're "big" but their footprint makes deep-striking them in the Pylonstar a reasonable prospect. But yeah, even outside of the one strategy you always see them used in, they're just a fun, decent unit in general. I really enjoy them, and suggest any Necron owner who is willing to make the FW leap spending-wise, own at least one or two.

Oh, and the Gauss Eliminator version is great, cheap, skyfire if your meta has to contend with flyers.

Which Pylon of the three are you referring to?

sieGermans wrote:
Which Pylon of the three are you referring to?

There's the Death-Ray version, which is terrific in the Pylonstar (obviously) and the ones I like to run as anti-air or just distractions are the Gauss Exterminator. I feel like the only awful one is the Heat Ray. Melta on an immobile artillery piece? MEH.

They're technically mobile, just not Relentless

I'm still not sure about investing in them right now. IA12 is old and 90% of it doesn't even work right after 7th and the new codex, I'm half expecting an update not too far off.

On the other hand, FW has cared about nothing but HH and Tau lately so who knows.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

sieGermans wrote:
Which Pylon of the three are you referring to?

There's the Death-Ray version, which is terrific in the Pylonstar (obviously) and the ones I like to run as anti-air or just distractions are the Gauss Exterminator. I feel like the only awful one is the Heat Ray. Melta on an immobile artillery piece? MEH.

Actually the mini pylons don't have the immobile rule. You can move them 2" a turn, iir.
Its the big one that can't move.

Requizen wrote:
I'm still not sure about investing in them right now. IA12 is old and 90% of it doesn't even work right after 7th and the new codex, I'm half expecting an update not too far off.

On the other hand, FW has cared about nothing but HH and Tau lately so who knows.

Horus Heresy and AoS are the testing grounds for 8th ed, Given how badly we need someone to press the reset button I say more power to them.

Obviously you guys are right... They aren't immobile per se, only de-facto. :-p You COULD move them, but you would just never want to.

I can definitely see the argument against buying into FW if you're a new Cron player, as the rest of their entries are hot garbage, but man... Pylons really are still solid as-is, and amazing when built around.

If the Gauss ones weren't Skyfire only they'd see a hell of a lot more play.

Just to clarify, there are two sizes of Pylons. Pylon and Sentry Pylon.

The Pylon is the huge one that can deepstrike in and if it lands on models, they move out of it's way.

Sentry Pylon (with death ray or Gauss) is the size people use for the Pylon-star.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NL/Warhammer-40-000?Nu=product.repositoryId&N=102778+4294966029&qty=8&sorting=rec&view=table&categoryId=cat2140034

Sentry Pylons are Artillery, they can move 6". Adding the Royal Court just lets you re-position to a closer target or safer area.

 skoffs wrote:
If the Gauss ones weren't Skyfire only they'd see a hell of a lot more play.

I used to use them in 6th when they were essentially the ultimate transport poppers we had at range. LOVED them as my CCB and Destroyer Lord w/ Wraiths rushed forward.

Come 7th and they become significantly less attractive.

Oh God... I've been playing them wrong, haven't I? I've been playing Tau too often, but I thought Skyfire let you CHOOSE to either fire at full BS for that turn vs. Flyers, or Ground units, snap-shooting versus the other?

I apologize profusely if i've been giving advice based on my own misplays and stupidity.

Edit: Yep. Just checked BRB. I'm a moron, and my Gauss Exterminator Pylons just became significantly less sexy. :(

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Oh God... I've been playing them wrong, haven't I? I've been playing Tau too often, but I thought Skyfire let you CHOOSE to either fire at full BS for that turn vs. Flyers, or Ground units, snap-shooting versus the other?

I apologize profusely if i've been giving advice based on my own misplays and stupidity.

Edit: Yep. Just checked BRB. I'm a moron, and my Gauss Exterminator Pylons just became significantly less sexy. :(

Yeah, its only intercepter which allows you to choose.
Which is not a rule I'm a fan of, really. Skyfire should always let you choose, and interceptor should do exactly that, allow you to fire upon units coming from reserves.

Funnily enough, I actually thought that the mini pylons come with interceptor. I should read that book again.

In 6th edition if you had both Skyfire and Interceptor, you could fire at ground targets as normal. But that was removed in 7th edition for whatever reason and Skyfire became more of a drawback than a bonus.

Sky fire still gets full BS versus skimmers [and NOT jet bikes], though! Which is sometimes relevant, I guess?