Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2015/12/13 10:30:50
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
It is when you obsessively keep trying to beat the same dead horse over and over and over and over and over and...
And over and over and over
Like seriously. This wasn't much of a scandal when it started. That it still has the attention of Congressional Republicans says infinitely more about them than it ever will about Hillary Clinton. Everyone already knows she's sleazy (come on she's married to a guy who hangs out with a convicted child molester). There's hardly a need to invent scandals prove it.
I work in the IT industry and it boggles my mind that it's accepted that an institution like our own Federal Goverment (the friggin STATES Dept) "can't find" email correspondences on official accounts. It's either sheer incompetent or someone *literally* had to purposely scrub such information if you had the appropriate admin-privileges. Which is why I brought up potential obstruction of justice charges.
Honestly, as a federal employee who just had to deal with my own agency's IT guys a couple weeks ago, I would go with incompetent until proven otherwise.
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
2015/12/13 17:35:42
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
NinthMusketeer wrote: Obama broke a promise? That... makes him no different than any other president. What's your argument?
Sure... it's an American pastime to call out their president's BS. Unless, you think Obama deserve special treatment...
This is a fair point.
And along those lines, do we have any fact-checks or other events for politicians that aren't in the clown car of republican primaries? They dominate the news lately but surely there is some fresh BS from other people we can talk about. Talking about Whembly beating the dead horse on the email scandal is almost beating a dead horse at this point.
Now, if only someone would make a similar law about Darth Vader...but who am I to talk? My mother in law will be entering my wedding ceremony to the "Imperial March" when I get married in the spring.
Help me, Rhonda. HA!
2015/12/14 17:02:17
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Now, if only someone would make a similar law about Darth Vader...but who am I to talk? My mother in law will be entering my wedding ceremony to the "Imperial March" when I get married in the spring.
The CNN article that that one links to is also interesting, notably;
In Paxton's checklist of the foundational traits of fascism there is a big one that Trump does not share, which is "the beauty of violence and the efficacy of will when they are devoted to the group's success."
There is no hint that Trump wishes to engage in or to foment violence against the enemies, such as immigrants, he has identified as undermining the American way of life. One is therefore left with the conclusion that Trump is a proto-fascist, rather than an actual fascist.
2015/12/14 18:53:01
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Spoilered for those on the left that will surely ignore this anyway...
Spoiler:
As first reported by Time magazine, the Foundation for Accountability and Civic Trust (FACT) filed a complaint with the U.S. Office of Government Ethics alleging that Clinton gave Neptune Minerals "special access to the State Department Based upon the company’s rElationships with Secretary Clinton’s family members and donors to the Clinton FoundatioN."
The complaint comes two weeks after emails released by the State Department show that Clinton, now the Democratic presidential front-runner, ordered a senior State Department official to look into the request from Marc Mezvinsky.
Mezvinsky, a partner in a New York hedGe fund and the Husband of Clinton's dAughter Chelsea, had received an email in May 2012 from investor Harry Siklas asking if he could help set up contacts with Clinton or other State Department officials.
That August, Clinton relayed a copy of the investor's email to MeZvinsky to Thomas Nides, then a deputy secretary of state and now vice chairman at Morgan Stanley, a major New York financial services firm. "Could you have someone follow up on this request which was forwarded to me?" Clinton asked Nides. He replied: "I'll get on it."
Veriamp wrote:I have emerged from my lurking to say one thing. When Mat taught the Necrons to feel, he taught me to love.
whitedragon wrote: that Hillary Clinton has participated in some wrong doing.
You say it like there have been arguments to suggest she hasn't, did I miss something somewhere? Because the best view on her I recall from this thread is "the lesser of two evils".
whitedragon wrote: that Hillary Clinton has participated in some wrong doing.
You say it like there have been arguments to suggest she hasn't, did I miss something somewhere? Because the best view on her I recall from this thread is "the lesser of two evils".
Between Sanders? Nah... I think I'd actually prefer HRC over Sanders.
Against the Republicans?
Anyone not-Trump is preferable for me over HRC.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
hotsauceman1 wrote: It was like that last election cycle too. We need arnold Schwarzenegger as president. The presenator maybe
I work in the IT industry and it boggles my mind that it's accepted that an institution like our own Federal Goverment (the friggin STATES Dept) "can't find" email correspondences on official accounts. It's either sheer incompetent or someone *literally* had to purposely scrub such information if you had the appropriate admin-privileges. Which is why I brought up potential obstruction of justice charges.
Honestly, as a federal employee who just had to deal with my own agency's IT guys a couple weeks ago, I would go with incompetent until proven otherwise.
Nah... they're lying their asses off.
Exchange Servers don't store email on .PST files. The servers (note, plural) have a dedicated database that stores email messages on the server. Then, there would be scores, if not hundreds of backup tapes (or SAN for data replication galore) that contain every.email.that.transited the Exchange servers.
A .PST file exists on a laptop or desktop computer if the employee copies emails from the server to their local computer. Those might "go missing" but that isn't the master copy of the email database.
That's how it works.
So, when DoS peeps say "I can't find it". They're lying their asses off and hope that enough people, who doesn't understand how email/Exchange works, moves on.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/12/15 02:31:53
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2015/12/15 06:55:49
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
A .PST file exists on a laptop or desktop computer if the employee copies emails from the server to their local computer. Those might "go missing" but that isn't the master copy of the email database.
I believe DoS is trying to find a .pst for the explicit reason that no master copy exists. I am also entirely certain why you can't accept this possibility.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/15 06:58:55
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2015/12/15 14:26:13
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
A .PST file exists on a laptop or desktop computer if the employee copies emails from the server to their local computer. Those might "go missing" but that isn't the master copy of the email database.
I believe DoS is trying to find a .pst for the explicit reason that no master copy exists. I am also entirely certain why you can't accept this possibility.
And I'm telling you... that's not how it works.
Unless you're willing to accept the possibility that the DoS won't be able to find anyone's email prior to 2012.
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2015/12/15 14:28:35
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
A .PST file exists on a laptop or desktop computer if the employee copies emails from the server to their local computer. Those might "go missing" but that isn't the master copy of the email database.
I believe DoS is trying to find a .pst for the explicit reason that no master copy exists. I am also entirely certain why you can't accept this possibility.
And I'm telling you... that's not how it works.
Unless you're willing to accept the possibility that the DoS won't be able to find anyone's email prior to 2012.
I can't speak for the DoS, but the DoD Records Management program does label suspenses on just about every time of document, hard copy or electronic, and they can be (and most likely are) deleted/shredded/etc after a certain point.
I've spent many an hour at the shredder getting rid of 2 year old weather forecasts.
Full Frontal Nerdity
2015/12/15 14:37:52
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
A .PST file exists on a laptop or desktop computer if the employee copies emails from the server to their local computer. Those might "go missing" but that isn't the master copy of the email database.
I believe DoS is trying to find a .pst for the explicit reason that no master copy exists. I am also entirely certain why you can't accept this possibility.
And I'm telling you... that's not how it works.
Unless you're willing to accept the possibility that the DoS won't be able to find anyone's email prior to 2012.
I can't speak for the DoS, but the DoD Records Management program does label suspenses on just about every time of document, hard copy or electronic, and they can be (and most likely are) deleted/shredded/etc after a certain point.
I've spent many an hour at the shredder getting rid of 2 year old weather forecasts.
Other members have explained similar things to him to no avail.
2015/12/15 14:44:41
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Email communications are distinct from document management.
I can't fathom an agency like DoS wouldn't use basic email retention policy (stuff that comes right out of the box) to secure/archive/backup all department communications. Seems to me that keeping records of such communications would be a wee bit important for our nation's diplomacy department.... no?
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2015/12/15 14:46:31
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
whembly wrote: Email communications are distinct from document management.
I can't fathom an agency like DoS wouldn't use basic email retention policy (stuff that comes right out of the box) to secure/archive/backup all department communications. Seems to me that keeping records of such communications would be a wee bit important for our nation's diplomacy department.... no?
No... our email communications fall under the same Record Management program.
Full Frontal Nerdity
2015/12/15 14:52:13
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
whembly wrote: Email communications are distinct from document management.
I can't fathom an agency like DoS wouldn't use basic email retention policy (stuff that comes right out of the box) to secure/archive/backup all department communications. Seems to me that keeping records of such communications would be a wee bit important for our nation's diplomacy department.... no?
No... our email communications fall under the same Record Management program.
Okay. I'll add that government management of this is distinctly... odd.
Anecdote time: In my employment, I can personally retrieve the very first email/calendar appointment with ease. All they way back in 2001.
*shrug*
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2015/12/15 14:54:12
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
whembly wrote: Email communications are distinct from document management.
I can't fathom an agency like DoS wouldn't use basic email retention policy (stuff that comes right out of the box) to secure/archive/backup all department communications. Seems to me that keeping records of such communications would be a wee bit important for our nation's diplomacy department.... no?
No... our email communications fall under the same Record Management program.
Okay. I'll add that government management of this is distinctly... odd.
Anecdote time: In my employment, I can personally retrieve the very first email/calendar appointment with ease. All they way back in 2001.
*shrug*
Again, I can't speak for the DoS's policy regarding how they handle their records. I'm just providing my knowledge of my Departments methods.
Full Frontal Nerdity
2015/12/15 15:27:41
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
whembly wrote: Email communications are distinct from document management.
I can't fathom an agency like DoS wouldn't use basic email retention policy (stuff that comes right out of the box) to secure/archive/backup all department communications. Seems to me that keeping records of such communications would be a wee bit important for our nation's diplomacy department.... no?
No... our email communications fall under the same Record Management program.
Okay. I'll add that government management of this is distinctly... odd.
Anecdote time: In my employment, I can personally retrieve the very first email/calendar appointment with ease. All they way back in 2001.
*shrug*
I think that while you can do that, I know when I was in the army, I definitely could not pull up my own sent emails and whatnot, once I deleted them, they were gone from me forever.
It may also be good to note that DoS may not view emails as being in the same "recordable" category as the DoD does, unless email has replaced the old "Memorandum of Conversation" and other official documents that floated around pre-email (seriously, I just used a number of memos for a research paper... if a DoSer had a conversation with a foreigner at lunch, it had to be recorded in a memo)
2015/12/15 16:24:50
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
EXCLUSIVE: An intelligence community review has re-affirmed that two classified emails were indeed “top secret” when they hit Hillary Clinton’s unsecured personal server despite a challenge to that designation by the State Department, according to two sources familiar with the review.
The sources described the dispute over whether the two emails were classified at the highest level as a “settled matter.”
The agencies that owned and originated that intelligence – the CIA and National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency or NGA – reviewed the emails to determine how they should be properly stored, as the State Department took issue with their highly classified nature. The subject matter of the messages is widely reported to be the movement of North Korean missiles and a drone strike. A top secret designation requires the highest level of security, and can include the use of an approved safe.
The sources, who were not authorized to speak on the record, told Fox News that while the emails were indeed “top secret” when they hit Clinton’s server, one of them remains “top secret” to this day -- and must be handled at the highest security level. The second email is still considered classified but at the lower “secret” level because more information is publicly available about the event.
That's pretty big.
Full Frontal Nerdity
2015/12/15 21:51:52
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
A .PST file exists on a laptop or desktop computer if the employee copies emails from the server to their local computer. Those might "go missing" but that isn't the master copy of the email database.
I believe DoS is trying to find a .pst for the explicit reason that no master copy exists. I am also entirely certain why you can't accept this possibility.
And I'm telling you... that's not how it works.
Unless you're willing to accept the possibility that the DoS won't be able to find anyone's email prior to 2012.
I can't speak for the DoS, but the DoD Records Management program does label suspenses on just about every time of document, hard copy or electronic, and they can be (and most likely are) deleted/shredded/etc after a certain point.
I've spent many an hour at the shredder getting rid of 2 year old weather forecasts.
Other members have explained similar things to him to no avail.
I've worked for several different fairly large companies, and it really runs the gamut: One company I supported could have easily produced any email from a decade ago even if the corporate HQ with all servers present exploded, whereas another company I supported - a large one, currently with a 7 billion dollar market cap - kept everything on individuals hard drives, in PST's, and left nothing older than about 90 days on the exchange end and only a few more months than that on tape. They only had a single exchange person and she spent all her time screwing around telecom stuff. You lost your laptop, you probably lost a ton of data that could not be recovered. A lot of organizations think IT is a waste of money, and so run it horribly so it does just that.
I explained that personally at least once in this thread, as someone who has supported Exchange for 15 years - that not every organization follows the same standards, you can't assume what you know about how your company it is how another one does. However, the horse simply isn't thirsty no matter how many rivers you point out.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/16 00:57:40
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2015/12/16 00:58:16
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
whembly wrote: Email communications are distinct from document management.
I can't fathom an agency like DoS wouldn't use basic email retention policy (stuff that comes right out of the box) to secure/archive/backup all department communications. Seems to me that keeping records of such communications would be a wee bit important for our nation's diplomacy department.... no?
No... our email communications fall under the same Record Management program.
Okay. I'll add that government management of this is distinctly... odd.
Anecdote time: In my employment, I can personally retrieve the very first email/calendar appointment with ease. All they way back in 2001.
*shrug*
Again, I can't speak for the DoS's policy regarding how they handle their records. I'm just providing my knowledge of my Departments methods.
Records retention is very dependent on the type of information however. I'm used to much longer windows. I remember our IT guys having to do a topic search for a time period that covered 7ish years in the past.
2015/12/16 01:06:57
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
A .PST file exists on a laptop or desktop computer if the employee copies emails from the server to their local computer. Those might "go missing" but that isn't the master copy of the email database.
I believe DoS is trying to find a .pst for the explicit reason that no master copy exists. I am also entirely certain why you can't accept this possibility.
And I'm telling you... that's not how it works.
Unless you're willing to accept the possibility that the DoS won't be able to find anyone's email prior to 2012.
I can't speak for the DoS, but the DoD Records Management program does label suspenses on just about every time of document, hard copy or electronic, and they can be (and most likely are) deleted/shredded/etc after a certain point.
I've spent many an hour at the shredder getting rid of 2 year old weather forecasts.
Other members have explained similar things to him to no avail.
I've worked for several different fairly large companies, and it really runs the gamut: One company I supported could have easily produced any email from a decade ago even if the corporate HQ with all servers present exploded, whereas another company I supported - a large one, currently with a 7 billion dollar market cap - kept everything on individuals hard drives, in PST's, and left nothing older than about 90 days on the exchange end and only a few more months than that on tape. They only had a single exchange person and she spent all her time screwing around telecom stuff. You lost your laptop, you probably lost a ton of data that could not be recovered. A lot of organizations think IT is a waste of money, and so run it horribly so it does just that.
I explained that personally at least once in this thread, as someone who has supported Exchange for 15 years - that not every organization follows the same standards, you can't assume what you know about how your company it is how another one does. However, the horse simply isn't thirsty no matter how many rivers you point out.
I get that... really I do.
Think about the role the Department of State is entrusted to perform.
It's absolute, basic function, is to keep effective communications between all parties (internally and externally). Ie, Diplomacy.
Right?
Regardless... until we determine what that policy is, we're all spitballing. (would we even be able to determine that, or would that be considered operational secret?).
Automatically Appended Next Post: EDIT: anyone watching the GOP debate tonight?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/16 01:38:31
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2015/12/16 01:47:53
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
5000pts 
6000pts 
3000pts
