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MaxT wrote:
Regardless who is right or wrong, there's now a whole bunch of folks who're now not going to touch any Dust product with a bargepole. And the longer this goes on, the more people will be in that camp.

Dropping FFG as distributor the way they did is what will ultimately be responsible for killing the game. FFG having exclusive right to sell the expansions they had in stock and getting to keep ownership of the Warfare rules didn't put Battlefront in a very good starting position.

I see this KS as a desperate attempt to save the game, and we're all seeing how that is turning out. It seems like everything they gets done to try and revitalize Dust is always dragging along the remains of the last attempt to do so. No game in this hobby can survive with that much dead weight unless it has "Warhammer" in the name.

Dust is dead. Makes me wonder how long the roleplaying game by Modipus will last before it vanishes.

 BrookM wrote:
Dust is dead. Makes me wonder how long the roleplaying game by Modipus will last before it vanishes.

Maybe that's what the two folks on the cover are contemplating as they stare off into the distance...

 BrookM wrote:
Dust is dead. Makes me wonder how long the roleplaying game by Modipus will last before it vanishes.

OK, but an even more important question is will it drive up the prices on existing DUST stock at Miniature Market or put them deeper into the clearance bin?

(I do wonder how much they sunk into the roleplaying game, in a bleak humor kind of way.)

 warboss wrote:
Maybe that's what the two folks on the cover are contemplating as they stare off into the distance...

I can already see Rosie contemplating whether or not to shed more clothes and adopt a silly pose in the hopes of getting hired by Raging Heroes.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
OK, but an even more important question is will it drive up the prices on existing DUST stock at Miniature Market or put them deeper into the clearance bin?

(I do wonder how much they sunk into the roleplaying game, in a bleak humor kind of way.)

Well, when the previews of the RPG popped up around here the creator wisely decided not to go through crowdfunding and to stay clear from the main stuff due to the drama.

Actually, how big a company is Modipus? Seeing as they're also launching an Infinity RPG, a Thunderbirds boardgame (wibble!) and a pile of other RPG's that seem pretty well supported.

In all seriousness though, I don't see Dust lasting long after the dust settles (pun not intended but pleasantly incidental).

No chance they'll just sweep it under the rug, then?

Nah, I've got a feeling they'll have a good run with the RPG and just let it run its course. The setting after all is an interesting one, plus they also do RPG's of that WWII Cthulhu game, so people interested in WWII with the occult and zombies one may also take interest in a WWII game with robots and zombies.

Dust still has a chance, but they need to rebuild trust.

Paolo has too much invested to give it up.

 BrookM wrote:
Nah, I've got a feeling they'll have a good run with the RPG and just let it run its course. The setting after all is an interesting one, plus they also do RPG's of that WWII Cthulhu game, so people interested in WWII with the occult and zombies one may also take interest in a WWII game with robots and zombies.

Is the Dust setting interesting? When I wanted to learn more about it, it just came off an an incomplete mishmash of Weird World War Two tropes. Besides, the backstory is horribly unrealistic. I mean Nazi Gorillas? That's just stupid. Gorillas are noble animals with pure hearts; only chimpanzees and baboons would fight for the nazis.


But you think DUST has been binned? Well, that's settled, then. I always felt DUST had been unfairly panned. Too bad because those plastic walkers were nothing to sneeze at.

In the setting, the Axis de-Nazified themselves. So the Gorillas are okay.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Besides, the backstory is horribly unrealistic. I mean Nazi Gorillas? That's just stupid. Gorillas are noble animals with pure hearts; only chimpanzees and baboons would fight for the nazis.

Clearly, you've never seen any of the Planet of the Apes movies... or you ARE one of those damn dirty gorilla apes typing with your stinkin' paws!?!

Yeah, what they said, the Axis have been de-Nazified in one big handwave, which always struck me as poorly done because killing Nazi's is way more fun and you can't exactly expect that killing the head Austrian will get the rest to immediately drop their party indoctrination, ubermensch mentality and whatnot.

Also, the Gorillas are planning a revolt against ze Germans, this has been hinted at in the background material.

Just because you remove the Nazis from Nazis, doesn't meant they're not still bad people. The biggest handwave were atrocities by normal Wehr troops. Let's not forget all sorts of Nazi-like tactics in WW1 from the Germans in Belgium.

And let's be very honest here. The world won't mourn the loss of Dust, because Dust was never really a unique thing to begin with. It's a game made of tired pulp WWII tropes.

Having failed twice before, and now this third time with huge legal fallout is the biggest nail in the coffin.

As for this legal matter, I'm not going to sit here and play armchair lawyer in the court of public opinion without facts.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Nah, I've got a feeling they'll have a good run with the RPG and just let it run its course. The setting after all is an interesting one, plus they also do RPG's of that WWII Cthulhu game, so people interested in WWII with the occult and zombies one may also take interest in a WWII game with robots and zombies.

Is the Dust setting interesting? When I wanted to learn more about it, it just came off an an incomplete mishmash of Weird World War Two tropes. Besides, the backstory is horribly unrealistic. I mean Nazi Gorillas? That's just stupid. Gorillas are noble animals with pure hearts; only chimpanzees and baboons would fight for the nazis.


But you think DUST has been binned? Well, that's settled, then. I always felt DUST had been unfairly panned. Too bad because those plastic walkers were nothing to sneeze at.

One of the few flaws with the excellent original Planet of the Apes films was giving the impression that specific Ape species seemed to be "good" or "bad" - so Chimps good and Gorrilla's bad.

The flawed but visually great Tim Burton version, and the more recent films in contrast handled this aspect very well - showing that each Ape was an individual and you could have "good" chimps and "bad" chimps - they make choices and are influenced by the environment and experiences - more so now that are (more) intelligent beings. Gorillas in DUST have been experimented upon and enslaved, driven to commit violence by their masters - its not like they walked into a NAZI recruitment office.........

Elements of the Nazi regime and structure have been lost or overturned in the DUST background but that does not by any means suggest that the Axis forces are "the good guys" - in the same way as the Russian forces and their allies are any less brutal - I have not seen anything about the Japanese forces in DUST but I assume they too are equally guilty of warcrimes as their historical counterparts.

This is not to say that individuals from these factions can nto be good, honourable, kind etc or that Allies forces can not have people who are brutal, or even commit atrocities etc

The backstory is limited and could do with a lot more information but the models look great - having had my first wave kickstarter - really great.

I'll be sad if it does die - and am hoping not.

Wait here was a story beyond boobs and walking tanks

 Vertrucio wrote:

And let's be very honest here. The world won't mourn the loss of Dust, because Dust was never really a unique thing to begin with. It's a game made of tired pulp WWII tropes.
.

I'd miss it. There is no other non-Historical WW2 style game I'm aware of, I really like the quick and straightforward way the game is set up (it being a wargame/boardgame hybrid) and the fact that it doesn't take forever to set up, requires tons of terrain and games are pleasantly quick. Also, I like the style of the models and the fact that the game has female characters wearing the same armor as their male counterparts, making them look like actual, real parts of the army and not like a walking bubble of tits and ass.
Granted, I only played the starter box so far, but I really liked it and made me want to look into it further. It's a damn shame though that you can't get anything from the game.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
OK, but an even more important question is will it drive up the prices on existing DUST stock at Miniature Market or put them deeper into the clearance bin?

Same as always. Prices will fall in the US and rise in Europe.

"Dust is dead" is a bit premature. It really doesn't take a whole lot to sustain a niche market share, and if DS wanted to they could likely continue operations in a direct-order fashion to an extent, though they may not be able to do big waves as readily without finding another distributor/funding vehicle. Pending resolution of this issue, it's somewhat hard to say how likely getting another distributor would be. My gut feeling is "not very" based on Paolo's actions and the overall history of the brand, but that doesn't mean that it's impossible someone would pick it up.

Dust's chances of becoming a mainstream contender, however, are probably dead. Still, the chance of that ever happening was always somewhat remote despite what the fanboys would have you believe. From the time FFG decided they no longer wanted to carry the line the odds were stacked against the outcome that it would get enough market share. This is really just reinforcing what was already likely.

 Vertrucio wrote:
And let's be very honest here. The world won't mourn the loss of Dust, because Dust was never really a unique thing to begin with. It's a game made of tired pulp WWII tropes.

I don't know about that. For me at least, it was the best realized pulp scifi WW2 universe in tabletop gaming both in art and models. Gear Krieg was the first I encountered almost 20 years ago and then there was incursion and one other one nicely done one whose name escapes me at the moment (the one with the Pauli-Girl meets Gestapo cover girl).

 warboss wrote:

 Vertrucio wrote:
And let's be very honest here. The world won't mourn the loss of Dust, because Dust was never really a unique thing to begin with. It's a game made of tired pulp WWII tropes.

I don't know about that. For me at least, it was the best realized pulp scifi WW2 universe in tabletop gaming both in art and models. Gear Krieg was the first I encountered almost 20 years ago and then there was incursion and one other one nicely done one whose name escapes me at the moment (the one with the Pauli-Girl meets Gestapo cover girl).

Tannhauser?

Tannhauser had WWI as its backdrop.

 Vertrucio wrote:
And let's be very honest here. The world won't mourn the loss of Dust...

The world isn't capable of rolling dice unless it causes an earth quake or other disturbance, and does anyone really know its opinion? It has always seemed inscrutable to me....

Despite your personal feelings, there are definitely people who will mourn the loss of Dust if it ceases to be a active gaming property with updates.

Theophony wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 Vertrucio wrote:
And let's be very honest here. The world won't mourn the loss of Dust, because Dust was never really a unique thing to begin with. It's a game made of tired pulp WWII tropes.

I don't know about that. For me at least, it was the best realized pulp scifi WW2 universe in tabletop gaming both in art and models. Gear Krieg was the first I encountered almost 20 years ago and then there was incursion and one other one nicely done one whose name escapes me at the moment (the one with the Pauli-Girl meets Gestapo cover girl).

Tannhauser?

Yup, that's the one I was thinking of whose name was on the tip of my tongue (or fingers in this case).

BrookM wrote:Tannhauser had WWI as its backdrop.

That I didn't know. I guess it would be a better example of tired world war pulp if it at first glance didn't strike me as the OTHER world war.

As a fan who owns at least two of every model, ran tournaments in my area, and brought new blood into the game I for one am happy to see dust die. That fanboys can remain in denial, but I don't consider the reduction to a niche game with no distributed to exactly be surviving. Though this may not be Paolos complete fault, my time, money, and me personally deserve better. Paolo can play the victim and claim he stands with backers, but I don't owe him anything and am getting off this sinking ship. Dust was a beautiful game with okay rules, that's it. Paolo puts a lot of blame on battlefront but in all reality it looks to me as if he's been trying to ring every Penny out of this dying brand as possible. Look at the Dust evolution failure, and he had the audacity to run that when battlefront was radio silent. I can't imagine the rpg garnered more than six pre-orders.. looking at the dust track record I can't help but feel dust would have had a better chance to be mainstream had PAOLO not been involved to the extent he is. All hail dust is dead. I saw Paolo say something on a facebook post recently. Something along the lines of "has tina found a passage way to middle earth". For some reason in that moment I was instantly and completely done with Paolo and dust..

 warboss wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Besides, the backstory is horribly unrealistic. I mean Nazi Gorillas? That's just stupid. Gorillas are noble animals with pure hearts; only chimpanzees and baboons would fight for the nazis.

Clearly, you've never seen any of the Planet of the Apes movies... or you ARE one of those damn dirty gorilla apes typing with your stinkin' paws!?!

Guys, I wasn't being entirely serious. Gorillas are donkey-caves.


Doesn't Incursion also have nazi zombies and gorillas? I guess I don't see what makes DUST all that special, other than plastic walkers. Hardly the stuff of Roleplaying games, as any Palladium player can tell you.

Ah, burn!

If we use Palladium games as the gold standard of uniqueness, we've got a long way to go. You can play a whale who learned how to fly fish in Rifts.

 warboss wrote:
If we use Palladium games as the gold standard of uniqueness, we've got a long way to go. You can play a whale who learned how to fly fish in Rifts.

But do they make a model for it?

Shotgun wrote:

 warboss wrote:
If we use Palladium games as the gold standard of uniqueness, we've got a long way to go. You can play a whale who learned how to fly fish in Rifts.

But do they make a model for it?

Nope, you'd have to scratch build it from an aquarium model kitbashed with scifi weapons (like the ubiquitous underwater dorsal laser seen frequently on shark characters). I had hopes that Dina Walker would cover this niche in her excellent series of kickstarters but that hasn't happened yet. I guess you could independently get a 4th grader to sculpt it out of play doe but I'd rather pay someone else to get a child to do that professionally. Fingers crossed!

Personally, I'm nowhere near giving up on the Dust brand. It's a fun, engaging IP and the latest rules set is pretty good. But back on topic...

There's some confusion apparent in this thread where people are mixing the terms mediation and arbitration. They are two very different things.

Mediation is when a third party essentially plays referee and tries to get two parties closer to an agreement. Both parties put their matters on the table, and the referee attempts to help them find a solution. There is not guaranteed outcome, and an unreasonable party can derail mediation entirely.

Arbitration can do things like split blame and assign varying degrees of liability. Arbitration is almost always going to leave both parties at a less than optimal solution, but there is going to be a legally binding ruling at the end of the day.

Having some experience in arbitration I can tell you that it's frequently used as an avenue by parties who know they have no case. They know if they go into a court they are going to lose, so will steer things into arbitration to have a chance of getting a concession and losing less than they would have in court and avoiding paying attorney's fees.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JaesonSS wrote:
As a fan who owns at least two of every model, ran tournaments in my area, and brought new blood into the game I for one am happy to see dust die. That fanboys can remain in denial, but I don't consider the reduction to a niche game with no distributed to exactly be surviving. Though this may not be Paolos complete fault, my time, money, and me personally deserve better. Paolo can play the victim and claim he stands with backers, but I don't owe him anything and am getting off this sinking ship. Dust was a beautiful game with okay rules, that's it. Paolo puts a lot of blame on battlefront but in all reality it looks to me as if he's been trying to ring every Penny out of this dying brand as possible. Look at the Dust evolution failure, and he had the audacity to run that when battlefront was radio silent. I can't imagine the rpg garnered more than six pre-orders.. looking at the dust track record I can't help but feel dust would have had a better chance to be mainstream had PAOLO not been involved to the extent he is. All hail dust is dead. I saw Paolo say something on a facebook post recently. Something along the lines of "has tina found a passage way to middle earth". For some reason in that moment I was instantly and completely done with Paolo and dust..

Welcome to Dakka... nice first post.

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