Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

WS5, BS7, S4, T4, W4, I6, At3, Ld10, Sv: 2+

Special Rules:
And They Shall Know No Fear
Chapter Tactics
Independent Character
Shadowmaster
Skilled Marksman
Shrouded

Shadowmaster:
He May Infiltrate With D3 Units

Skilled Marksman:
He & His Unit Are Relentless. The Controlling Player May Allocate Shooting Wouds Freely When Made By Him

Wargear:
Artificer Armour
Deadshot
Power Sword
Bolt Pistol
Frag Grenades
Krak Grenades

Deadshot:
72", SX, AP4, Rending, Pinning, Type: Heavy 2, Sniper

Special Ammo:
Haywire Rouds- Change Weapon's Profile To 36", S2, AP-, Haywire, Type: Heavy 1. Before Rolling On The Haywire Table, Roll A D6: On A Roll Of 1-3, The Shot Is Ineffective. On A Roll Of 4-6, Roll On The Haywire Table.

Volcano Rounds- Ignore Cover

Hellfire Rouds- 2+ Poisoned

185pts

Shadowmaster should proooobably just his warlord trait, ala the BRB Infiltrate Warlord trait.

I dunno about that allocating wounds however the unit wants to though, I don't remember but do sniper weapons still have precision shot? If not it should be allocate /hits/ on a +5 to hit.

Not trying to be harsh, but these rules really just seem like he's just an attempt to circumvent rules you don't particularly care for.

For 35 points more than a Chapter Master, his statline changes by -1WS, +2BS, +1I, -1A, and he gains Artificer Armour, Power Sword, and he gains Shadowmaster, Skilled Marksman and Shrouded, while losing Orbital Bombardment. The Wargear change alone (Artificer and Power Sword) are worth 35 points, not to mention the net Stat increase and three exceptional Special Rules in exchange for one fairly good one.

He has a Heavy weapon, but he's relentless. He has a Sniper rifle, but gets multiple shots. He gets to ignore regular Wound Allocation rules to prevent people tanking hits using the closest model. He has special ammo so he can make sure his weapon is always the right tool for the job. He and his unit can sneak into the backfield area (or come on from the sides via Outflank) and set up great angles to get side/rear shots on vehicles (worth reiterating here: without needing Snap Shots for their Heavy weapons). He's Shrouded so he always has at least a 5+ Cover save, so he's never without a save unless the enemy has Ignores Cover.

Basically, you have made him a no-brainer choice that anyone would be a fool not to take, as he has nearly every advantage one could ask for (except an Invulnerable save for when both is Artificer and Cover saves are broken, and Eternal Warrior - sort of surprised you didn't tack those on as well.... but of course he can at least be semi-safe inside a unit, with the obvious choice being Infiltrating Relentless Devastators).

At 185 points, he's an absolute bargain for what he does, especially when you bring a full Dev squad with him, armed with Missile Launchers or maybe Plasma Cannons to pair well with his Relentless rule. I would gladly pay at least 250 points, if not more, for what this fellow brings to the table.

The key to making balanced characters is making sure they have both advantages and drawbacks. You want them to be good at some things, but not so good at others. While this guy isn't going to be a close combat beast, he still has a Power Sword and Bolt Pistol, WS5, A3 and Frag Grenades, so he will still at least put up a fight. When shooting, however, there isn't a single target he couldn't at least put some hurt on, and there are several targets he absolutely excels at damaging, and he also buffs his unit with Move & Fire capabilities, and with the right combo (like the aforementioned Missile Launchers or Plasma Cannons) he can improve this versatility quite a bit. Good characters should require choices and tradeoffs, and require support in at least some situatioins - not allow you to handle anything that comes your way.

Also, it should be noted that you can't just cut things like WS and Attacks as a means of lowering the points value. You have to look at the entire picture. In this case, you lose nothing when you lose WS and attacks, yet you claim a points savings for it, that doesn't work.

 curran12 wrote:
Also, it should be noted that you can't just cut things like WS and Attacks as a means of lowering the points value. You have to look at the entire picture. In this case, you lose nothing when you lose WS and attacks, yet you claim a points savings for it, that doesn't work.

YES. I'd increase his cost by 50pts, and remove Shrouded and the wound allocation of Skilled Marksman (It's annoying in-game, and I think that should only be kept for BS8 stuff like vindicares).


Is this you? Than why do you have those rules?

This is why Vindicare powers are only for Vindicares. Stealing them is HERESY. Do you expect the Imperial Inquisition? Anyway, this post is actuallt a Vanus' distraction to get a Callidus into your keyboard. If you reply, it might kill you...
Actually, it's a trap An eversor is currently being delivered to your backyard while you try to find which key is actually an assassin...


Anyway, the fact that he can infiltrate ANYTHING is definitely cheese for that cheap, and on a guy that good.
I mean, if you can't think of a few sweet conboes with infiltrating vehicle squadrons or super-heavies that you'd pay 185pts for you're probably a Heretic, braindead, or Matt Ward.
And that should be his warlord trait: otherwise, could you imagine combining that with the almost identical warlord trait? Infiltrating 6 units with one character...

He looks way too strong.

I think Haywire bolts are a cool idea, problem is the Imperium doesn't have haywire tech to the extent of my knowledge, and if they came up with it, it probably wouldn't debut in compact bolter shell form.

Capitalizing Every Word Is An Odd Choice To Say The Least.

72" range on the move? Ha, no. Best case, stationary, is 48", and that's for a single shot. Double tapping beyond 24" is crazy.

Giving his unit Relentless? How? Does he shoot all the unit's guns for them?

Speaking of Relentless, a marksman character shouldn't just get it. He needs a penalty for moving and shooting or a bonus for standing still. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

My advice on the weapon is to either give it two profiles...

Sniper: S X AP 4 Rending, Precision Shot, Pinning 48" Heavy 1

Bolter: Special Issue Ammo, 30" Rapid Fire

Or make it a full on sniper rifle.

S 2 AP 3 Rending, Precision Shot, Pinning, Deadly Accuracy, 48" Heavy 1

Deadly Accuracy: Add the value of the first die rolled to hit with this weapon to it's strength, for a possible range of 3-8. Double the amount added against Monsterous Creatures, to a maximum of 10.

My 2 cents.

Pardon me for saying so, but why not just play Lias Issodon, the forgeworld chapter master of the Raptors? He, too, is a shooty chapter master with infiltrate, shrouded, and a long range rending bolter. He also has better support rules and is ten points cheaper. I get that this guy is like a special character for your custom chapter, but why not just use Lias and say it's chapter master so-and-so?

The only bit that seems a tad absurd to me is giving the squad relentless.

First of all, you must clarify the "infiltrate d3 units" as you could as well infiltrate a bunch of imperial knights or something.

Why 2+ armor. Every darn special sm character in proposed rules is bound to have 2+ armor. Even sniper guyz. At least no eternal warrior.