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Hi all! This post is based on thus far leaked rules from the upcoming Harlequins codex.


Thanks!

 Bhazakhain wrote:
Hi all! This post is based on thus far leaked rules from the upcoming Harlequins codex.

Spoiler:

If the Solitaire has both a Harlequin's kiss and Harlequin's caress does he choose one to use in assault? I ask as on BoLS someone implied he would get the effects of the Harlequis kiss regardless due to how the rules are worded.

Thanks!

Per the assault rules you can't mix and match the abilities of melee weapons when it comes time to strike blows. In other words, pick one or the other. If you need the exact rule, I can post it, but this has been recently argued.

The intent (which we can never actually know short of an FAQ) MIGHT be that both can be used. However, the BRB is extraordinarily clear that you can't mix and match abilities. The Harlequin's Kiss is certainly an ability, so you can't mix it in with another Melee Weapon's attacks without a specific permission that says something like "The Harlequin's Kiss may be used when the model is attacking with a different Melee weapon."

It seems likely the intent is for the Solitaire to gain the benefits of the 1 special attack whilst using the caress. However RaW is that he can't. Perhaps the codex will be clearer than the white though I wouldn't hold my breath and a proper FAQ seems even less likely.

Yeah I thought you had to choose one weapon as that's pretty clear in the rules, but was just confused by what someone else said. I've seen a photo of the page in the codex for the Solitaire and also wargear but nothing about that is mentioned. There is something about the wording for the Harlequin's kiss that I can see might be read into but yes, looks like an FAQ will be needed!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/624224.page

I don't think we need to repeat this subject already.

Isn't that a thread on soft cover codices?

 Ghaz wrote:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/624224.page

I don't think we need to repeat this subject already.

Agreed. If you think the intent is to allow it when attacking with other weapons, make a house rule among your gaming group and have fun. I wouldn't count on it in a competitive gaming environment (e.g. tournament) or when gaming with strangers.

I think there is a valid RAW discussion that Harlequins kiss functions even if it is not the chosen weapon.

normally weapon rules state, and this is from harlequins caress:

"each to hit roll with a weapon that has this special rule.."

so the ability is coming from using the weapon.

in the case of harlequins kiss the wording is:

"when a model equipped with a harlequins kiss makes its close combat attacks, one of it its attacks will be a kiss of death attack"

The rules do not require the weapon the be used as a chosen weapon, just that the model is equipped. Further it does not state when making attacks with this weapon, or a weapon with the harlequins kiss rule, or anything of that nature. It states when the model makes its attacks. The model could attack with two rocks it found in its boots while dancing around, and will still gain the harlequins kiss attack if it is equipped with an item that has that rule the way it is worded.

this is a specific rule that changes the normal core rule of weapons of more than one type, in that it explicitly specifies the attacks come from the model not the weapon, and the model has to only be equipped with the item, there is no requirement that it is used as the melee weapon in the assault phase. In fact as it states the models attacks, and not the weapons attacks it is telling the reader that the special rule is not based on choosing the weapon.

so RAW harlequins kiss works regardless of if it is the chosen weapon, because it is based off the models attacks. It is not a house rule, but the actual rules as written as the rules for the kiss do not require you to choose it as the weapon you strike with to get the special bonus as it is worded in its own specific rules.

if you look at things like concussive, shred, armourbane, it specifies it comes from taking hits from a weapon, not a model.

as such it is not mixing and matching abilities from weapons, the item grants the model an ability it is not an affect from the weapon being chosen in assault to strike with. Its actually similar to the tyranid codex, you can get a model with crushing claws, bone sword and lash whip and although you choose one to strike with if you have a tail weapon you get 1 additional hit that is an attack in assault, that has a specific profile, just like here.

Yeah that's the wording I was on about. Seems to allow it by having the kiss equipped while using the caress...

 Kriswall wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/624224.page

I don't think we need to repeat this subject already.

Agreed. If you think the intent is to allow it when attacking with other weapons, make a house rule among your gaming group and have fun. I wouldn't count on it in a competitive gaming environment (e.g. tournament) or when gaming with strangers.

Or you could Houserule that it doesn't work when attacking with other weapons which is going to be easier to adapt when playing new people or tournaments as worse case they disagree and your unit gets better.

blaktoof wrote:
I think there is a valid RAW discussion that Harlequins kiss functions even if it is not the chosen weapon.

normally weapon rules state, and this is from harlequins caress:

"each to hit roll with a weapon that has this special rule.."

so the ability is coming from using the weapon.

in the case of harlequins kiss the wording is:

"when a model equipped with a harlequins kiss makes its close combat attacks, one of it its attacks will be a kiss of death attack"

The rules do not require the weapon the be used as a chosen weapon, just that the model is equipped. Further it does not state when making attacks with this weapon, or a weapon with the harlequins kiss rule, or anything of that nature. It states when the model makes its attacks. The model could attack with two rocks it found in its boots while dancing around, and will still gain the harlequins kiss attack if it is equipped with an item that has that rule the way it is worded.

this is a specific rule that changes the normal core rule of weapons of more than one type, in that it explicitly specifies the attacks come from the model not the weapon, and the model has to only be equipped with the item, there is no requirement that it is used as the melee weapon in the assault phase. In fact as it states the models attacks, and not the weapons attacks it is telling the reader that the special rule is not based on choosing the weapon.

so RAW harlequins kiss works regardless of if it is the chosen weapon, because it is based off the models attacks. It is not a house rule, but the actual rules as written as the rules for the kiss do not require you to choose it as the weapon you strike with to get the special bonus as it is worded in its own specific rules.

if you look at things like concussive, shred, armourbane, it specifies it comes from taking hits from a weapon, not a model.

as such it is not mixing and matching abilities from weapons, the item grants the model an ability it is not an affect from the weapon being chosen in assault to strike with.

Blaktoof, you might want to go back and read through the entire thread Ghaz posted a link to. The issue with your interpretation is that regardless of how the Harlequin's Kiss rules are written, you're not allowed to use them when a model "comes to strike blows" (the loosest interpretation of which would have to include making To Hit rolls) if that model is choosing to attack with a different Melee weapon. There is no permission in the Harlequin's Kiss rules to overturn this restriction. For the rule to be usable, the model has to be attacking with the Harlequin's Kiss. Had GW wanted you to be able to use the Kiss of Death when attacking with a different Melee weapon, they could simply have made it literally any other piece of non-Melee weapon wargear.

My take is you use the Caress when you want a chance at multiple auto wounds at AP2. You use the Kiss when you want at least one guaranteed strike at AP2 and don't really care about the rest of your hits being able to get through armour. Caress versus a Tactical Squad. Kiss versus a Captain with one wound left.

The plainest way to think of it is that the Kiss of Death rule is a WEAPON rule and not a WARGEAR rule. If the rule is duplicated in a Wargear section then yes, but as it is only currently shown as a Weapon Rule, the Weapon needs to be used to invoke the rule. There is no 40k definition of 'equipped' so we can only guess what that means so far.

Not trying to find a way around rules but Blaktoof has a point. Only the caress seems to say it applies to the weapon. The kiss and embrace seem to give an ability to the model.

 Kriswall wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
I think there is a valid RAW discussion that Harlequins kiss functions even if it is not the chosen weapon.

normally weapon rules state, and this is from harlequins caress:

"each to hit roll with a weapon that has this special rule.."

so the ability is coming from using the weapon.

in the case of harlequins kiss the wording is:

"when a model equipped with a harlequins kiss makes its close combat attacks, one of it its attacks will be a kiss of death attack"

The rules do not require the weapon the be used as a chosen weapon, just that the model is equipped. Further it does not state when making attacks with this weapon, or a weapon with the harlequins kiss rule, or anything of that nature. It states when the model makes its attacks. The model could attack with two rocks it found in its boots while dancing around, and will still gain the harlequins kiss attack if it is equipped with an item that has that rule the way it is worded.

this is a specific rule that changes the normal core rule of weapons of more than one type, in that it explicitly specifies the attacks come from the model not the weapon, and the model has to only be equipped with the item, there is no requirement that it is used as the melee weapon in the assault phase. In fact as it states the models attacks, and not the weapons attacks it is telling the reader that the special rule is not based on choosing the weapon.

so RAW harlequins kiss works regardless of if it is the chosen weapon, because it is based off the models attacks. It is not a house rule, but the actual rules as written as the rules for the kiss do not require you to choose it as the weapon you strike with to get the special bonus as it is worded in its own specific rules.

if you look at things like concussive, shred, armourbane, it specifies it comes from taking hits from a weapon, not a model.

as such it is not mixing and matching abilities from weapons, the item grants the model an ability it is not an affect from the weapon being chosen in assault to strike with.

Blaktoof, you might want to go back and read through the entire thread Ghaz posted a link to. The issue with your interpretation is that regardless of how the Harlequin's Kiss rules are written, you're not allowed to use them when a model "comes to strike blows" (the loosest interpretation of which would have to include making To Hit rolls) if that model is choosing to attack with a different Melee weapon. There is no permission in the Harlequin's Kiss rules to overturn this restriction. For the rule to be usable, the model has to be attacking with the Harlequin's Kiss. Had GW wanted you to be able to use the Kiss of Death when attacking with a different Melee weapon, they could simply have made it literally any other piece of non-Melee weapon wargear.

My take is you use the Caress when you want a chance at multiple auto wounds at AP2. You use the Kiss when you want at least one guaranteed strike at AP2 and don't really care about the rest of your hits being able to get through armour. Caress versus a Tactical Squad. Kiss versus a Captain with one wound left.

the point I am making is you choose a weapon to strike blows. You use the rules for the weapon, which is what you are stating. Normally a weapon has special rules like strikedown, shred, armourbane, etc which state "when a model is hit by an attack with this weapon, or when a model with this weapon hits, or when a model with this weapon wounds etc" the effect is tied to the weapon doing something. For the kiss the ability is granted from being equipped with the item, and has nothing to do with picking the weapon to attack with. If a model is equipped with a harlequins kiss and chooses to use its power sword and shuriken pistol in assault, its close combat attacks are still subject to the rules for harlequins kiss. Ie if a model equpped with an item that has special rule (equipped, which it is, not chosen as attacking with or as the weapon) makes its close combat attacks (no rule requiring the weapon again) one of its attacks is.."

as such there is no issue with mixing and matching weapons, because its not an effect of striking blows with the weapon, in fact if the model had 3+ weapons and was using weapons that were not the kiss the presence of the kiss even though it is not any of the chosen weapons would still result in 1 attack being a 'kiss of death attack' as the rules are written.

it does not matter if it is a rule from a weapon, because the special rule itself is not tied to using the weapon at all in assault, unlike other weapons where the special rule (shred, concussive, etc) is tied to the weapon being used as per their own rules entries.

blaktoof wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
I think there is a valid RAW discussion that Harlequins kiss functions even if it is not the chosen weapon.

normally weapon rules state, and this is from harlequins caress:

"each to hit roll with a weapon that has this special rule.."

so the ability is coming from using the weapon.

in the case of harlequins kiss the wording is:

"when a model equipped with a harlequins kiss makes its close combat attacks, one of it its attacks will be a kiss of death attack"

The rules do not require the weapon the be used as a chosen weapon, just that the model is equipped. Further it does not state when making attacks with this weapon, or a weapon with the harlequins kiss rule, or anything of that nature. It states when the model makes its attacks. The model could attack with two rocks it found in its boots while dancing around, and will still gain the harlequins kiss attack if it is equipped with an item that has that rule the way it is worded.

this is a specific rule that changes the normal core rule of weapons of more than one type, in that it explicitly specifies the attacks come from the model not the weapon, and the model has to only be equipped with the item, there is no requirement that it is used as the melee weapon in the assault phase. In fact as it states the models attacks, and not the weapons attacks it is telling the reader that the special rule is not based on choosing the weapon.

so RAW harlequins kiss works regardless of if it is the chosen weapon, because it is based off the models attacks. It is not a house rule, but the actual rules as written as the rules for the kiss do not require you to choose it as the weapon you strike with to get the special bonus as it is worded in its own specific rules.

if you look at things like concussive, shred, armourbane, it specifies it comes from taking hits from a weapon, not a model.

as such it is not mixing and matching abilities from weapons, the item grants the model an ability it is not an affect from the weapon being chosen in assault to strike with.

Blaktoof, you might want to go back and read through the entire thread Ghaz posted a link to. The issue with your interpretation is that regardless of how the Harlequin's Kiss rules are written, you're not allowed to use them when a model "comes to strike blows" (the loosest interpretation of which would have to include making To Hit rolls) if that model is choosing to attack with a different Melee weapon. There is no permission in the Harlequin's Kiss rules to overturn this restriction. For the rule to be usable, the model has to be attacking with the Harlequin's Kiss. Had GW wanted you to be able to use the Kiss of Death when attacking with a different Melee weapon, they could simply have made it literally any other piece of non-Melee weapon wargear.

My take is you use the Caress when you want a chance at multiple auto wounds at AP2. You use the Kiss when you want at least one guaranteed strike at AP2 and don't really care about the rest of your hits being able to get through armour. Caress versus a Tactical Squad. Kiss versus a Captain with one wound left.

the point I am making is you choose a weapon to strike blows. You use the rules for the weapon, which is what you are stating. Normally a weapon has special rules like strikedown, shred, armourbane, etc which state "when a model is hit by an attack with this weapon, or when a model with this weapon hits, or when a model with this weapon wounds etc" the effect is tied to the weapon doing something. For the kiss the ability is granted from being equipped with the item, and has nothing to do with picking the weapon to attack with. If a model is equipped with a harlequins kiss and chooses to use its power sword and shuriken pistol in assault, its close combat attacks are still subject to the rules for harlequins kiss. Ie if a model equpped with an item that has special rule (equipped, which it is, not chosen as attacking with or as the weapon) makes its close combat attacks (no rule requiring the weapon again) one of its attacks is.."

as such there is no issue with mixing and matching weapons, because its not an effect of striking blows with the weapon, in fact if the model had 3+ weapons and was using weapons that were not the kiss the presence of the kiss even though it is not any of the chosen weapons would still result in 1 attack being a 'kiss of death attack' as the rules are written.

it does not matter if it is a rule from a weapon, because the special rule itself is not tied to using the weapon at all in assault, unlike other weapons where the special rule (shred, concussive, etc) is tied to the weapon being used as per their own rules entries.

So, your contention is that it's ok to mix and match abilities of weapons depending on the ability? Do you have any rules citations for this or is this just how you would play it?

Keep in mind that the restriction on mixing and matching abilities doesn't have ANY wording restricting the abilities to those involved with striking blows, it just restricts the mixing and matching from happening WHEN the model comes to strikes blows. The wording of Kiss of Death has literally zero impact on the game if you aren't using the Harlequin's Kiss when the model "comes to strike blows".

I think what Blaktoof means is that the weapon comes with a effect that always applies in much the same way Prince Yriel's Spear of Twilight (is that what it's called) has a rule which curses him and makes him re roll 6s on his armour saves or something like that. He could have decided to just slap his opponents with both his hands that assault phase but he still has his spear on him and it's still cursing him.

The weapon infers a special rule to the weilder of the weapon, not the usage of the weapon. The rule is quite clear that he gets to make a single S6ap2 attack regardless of the weapon he chose to fight with.

 Bhazakhain wrote:
I think what Blaktoof means is that the weapon comes with a effect that always applies in much the same way Prince Yriel's Spear of Twilight (is that what it's called) has a rule which curses him and makes him re roll 6s on his armour saves or something like that. He could have decided to just slap his opponents with both his hands that assault phase but he still has his spear on him and it's still cursing him.

This was actually addressed in the other thread as well.

First, Yriel can't decide to "slap his opponents with both his hands". That's not a thing. Yriel has precisely three options to use when making attacks during the fight sub phase. They are The Eye of Wrath, The Spear of Twilight and his Plasma Grenades (at least when assaulting Vehicles, Gun Emplacements or Monstrous Creatures).

If Yriel chooses to make his attacks with The Spear of Twilight, he must used the Cursed rule component of The Spear of Twilight and must re-roll saving throws of 6. If Yriel istead chooses to attack with The Eye of Wrath or his Plasma Grenades, he is prevented by the restriction in the BRB from mixing and matching abilities from other weapons. The Cursed rule would not come into play and Yriel would not have to re-roll saving throws of 6.

It sort of depends on what you think "comes to strike blows" means as that's when a model isn't allowed to mix and match abilities. I believe it means a round of combat. Some people seem to think it means ONLY during the To Hit rolls. It's not defined in the rules, so this is the sticking point that causes the outcome to be ultimately unknowable.

Interpreting it to mean only during the To Hit rolls would allow The Spear of Twilight's Cursed rule to come into play, but it would have no effect as Yriel never makes a saving throw during To Hit rolls. He still wouldn't allow the Kiss of Death to be used when attacking with the Caress.

My preferred interpretation is Interpreting it to mean during a round of combat. This would effectively mean that you pick a weapon each round and then pretend you don't have the others on you for the purposes of seeing what abilities you can use. This would also allow the Cursed rule to function.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

NauticalKendall wrote:
The weapon infers a special rule to the weilder of the weapon, not the usage of the weapon. The rule is quite clear that he gets to make a single S6ap2 attack regardless of the weapon he chose to fight with.

The BRB is also quite clear that you can't mix and match abilities. The Kiss of Death rule doesn't overturn this restriction.

Still doesn't address Eldrad's spiritlink ability. That weapon's special rule has nothing to do with combat, and so could never be used, even if you interpret it as "during a round of combat".

I think until FAQ I'm quite happy allowing this. Seems quite clear in the wording. It's not like a model has a master crafted power sword and a power fist and decides to use the master crafted rule for the power fist.

The wording for Harlequin's Caress say attacks with that weapon... The wording for Kiss and Embrace suggest a model that has that thing in its possession gets the benefit of it. Note this only happens with the Solitaire as everyone else just gets one of these weapon choices.

This might be easier resolved if there were other examples.


EDIT: Exactly Bojazz. It's even got spirit link in the weapon profile right? No influence on melee whatsoever.

EDIT 2: If Eldrad uses his witchblade that phase, he still has the spirit link rule apply to him.

Since the Kiss says "When a model equipped with a Harlequin's Kiss makes its close combat attacks, one of it's attacks will be a Kiss of Death attack"

As this is the way the rule is written, there is no choice in what weapon to use. You will always use the Kiss. There is no choice in what rule to use.


Makes it appear to me that the intent is to allow both to function as what would be the reason to give it two weapons when it could never use one of them.

Bojazz wrote:
Still doesn't address Eldrad's spiritlink ability. That weapon's special rule has nothing to do with combat, and so could never be used, even if you interpret it as "during a round of combat".

Actually, the restriction ONLY exists when the model "comes to strike blows". Presumably, in other instances, the model is free to use all of his various weapon's abilities. Most weapon abilities just aren't very useful outside of combat. Eldrad is free to use his weapon's abilities outside of combat if they're applicable.

It's not mixing and matching.

If a model has more than one Melee weapon, he must choose which one to attack with when he comes to strike blows – he cannot mix and match the abilities of several different Melee weapons.

if a Model had Shuriken pistol, powersword, harlequins kiss.

Come melee time the model could opt to strike with its powersword.

It would still benefit from harlequins kiss because the wording of harlequins kiss grants an ability to the model regardless of how the model chooses to attack.

from harlequins kiss:

"when a model equipped with a Harlequins kiss makes its close combat attacks, one of them is a kiss of death"

Even if you choose not to use the harlequins kiss to make the attack, the model still is equipped with the item.

is the model equipped with the item? Yes.
Does the model have more than one weapon? Yes.
Pick which to strike with- powersword.
Is the model equipped with a harlequins kiss? Yes.
Is the model making close combat attacks? yes
one of them is now a kiss of death.

saying the model cannot make the attack is against the rules as written, the model is equipped with it, the model is making close combat attacks. None of them require the harlequins kiss to actually be chosen as the weapon striking.

This is granted by the rules of the item, which specifically as written modify how the models attacks are divided based not on the weapons the model chooses to use- which is the mix matching that is not allowed, but based on being equipped with the item and making any close combat attacks with anything.

compare it to another item. a lightning claw. Lets say a model has a Lightning Claw, and a power axe.

The lightning claw has the special rules S user, AP 3, shred, melee, and specialist weapon. The power axe has the special rules S user+1, AP2, unwieldy,melee.

the model is in assault.
Does the model have more than 1 weapon? Yes
the model chooses to attack with a power axe.

The power axe has special rules.
Unwieldy so the model strikes at I2, and at S+1 and AP2. The lightning claw has special rules, but we are not striking with it so they do not come into play.
Unlike the harlequins kiss, the lightning claws special rules are all tied to the weapon striking.
Shred:If a model has the Shred special rule, or is attacking with a Melee weapon that has the Shred special rule, it re-rolls failed To Wound rolls in close combat.

The model itself does not have shred, but the weapon grants it when striking with it- as per the rules for shred and the weapon. Since we are not striking with the weapon the model has no access to it.

looking back at harlequins kiss, the model gets the kiss of death ability itself by being equipped with the weapon, not by using the weapon or choosing to strike with it. This is why it does not matter if the model strikes with it, because it is not required to actually choose it to get Kiss of Death, as such it is not mix and matching at all.

blaktoof wrote:
It's not mixing and matching.

...

Come melee time the model could opt to strike with its powersword.

It would still benefit from harlequins kiss because the wording of harlequins kiss grants an ability to the model regardless of how the model chooses to attack.

This is where your argument falls apart. It IS mixing and matching if you attack with one weapon and use an ability from another. You're adding a "well, it's not really an ability that impact the weapon, so I'm not gonna count it" element that the rules don't support. The rules don't differentiate between abilities that "granted to the mode" vs. "granted to the weapon". The rules just say you can't mix and match abilities.

If you believe that I am wrong and that the rules DO differentiate between types of abilities, please cite a rule. I'm more than happy to admit I'm wrong, but I have yet to see anything in writing to make me change my mind.

The ability of the other is not an ability based on the weapon striking.

Is the model equipped with a harlequins kiss?
Is it striking with anything in melee?

if the answer to both of those is yes, then per the specific RAW the model explicitly gets a kiss of death attack.

the entry for the item is the rule, and it has been cited. Entries for special rules, models, items have the ability to modify the core rules. Which is what is happening.

if you answer yes to the two above, and do not allow the special rule to work you are not following the rules.

Agree. I think what's confusing some people here is that the Harlequin's Kiss is a weapon with a special rule in the same way Eldrad's staff is. It might as well be some psychic gem, amulet, lucky coin - whatever! All it is is a normal close combat weapon with a rule that doesn't apply to itself but to the Harlequin itself.

'When a model equipped with a Harlequin's Kiss makes its close combat attacks, one of them is a kiss of death.'

Note that the description for the Harlequin's Caress starts 'Each To Hit role of 6 made by a weapon with this special rule...'

In the case of the Caress, it most definitely applies to the weapon and you will need to use that weapon to get that benefit. The Kiss and the Embrace have no such restrictions.

 Bhazakhain wrote:
Agree. I think what's confusing some people here is that the Harlequin's Kiss is a weapon with a special rule in the same way Eldrad's staff is. It might as well be some psychic gem, amulet, lucky coin - whatever! All it is is a normal close combat weapon with a rule that doesn't apply to itself but to the Harlequin itself.

'When a model equipped with a Harlequin's Kiss makes its close combat attacks, one of them is a kiss of death.'

Note that the description for the Harlequin's Caress starts 'Each To Hit role of 6 made by a weapon with this special rule...'

In the case of the Caress, it most definitely applies to the weapon and you will need to use that weapon to get that benefit. The Kiss and the Embrace have no such restrictions.

There is no confusion whatsoever. The BRB is very clear that mixing and matching of abilities isn't allowed. If you attack with the Caress, but use the Kiss's abiltiy, then you are mixing and matching and breaking the rules. Play it however you like, but there is no confusion on my part or on the part of the rules.

Eldrad's staff is an entirely different situation. The restriction on mixing and matching weapon abilities ONLY exists when the model comes to strike blows. In EVERY other situation, the model benefits from ALL weapon abilities. This generally doesn't come into play since MOST weapon abilities relate to combat. Examples are Shred and Concussive. The Staff of Ulthamar's Spritilink ability can be used outside of combat. Since there is NO RESTRICTION preventing a model from using ALL of its weapon abilities outside of combat, Eldrad is just fine regaining a Warp Charge point on a 5+ in those situations. The only time he wouldn't benefit from Spiritlink would be during a combat where he chooses to attack with his Witchblade instead of the Staff. I can't think of a reason he'd be passing a psychic test while attacking with a Witchblade, though, so losing Spiritlink has no practical downside.

Saying that the Kiss ability is an ability that impacts the model and not the weapon is adding a distinction that DOES NOT EXIST in the rules. A weapon ability is a weapon ability is a weapon ability. If you believe the distinction exists, simply cite the rule providing an exemption to the mix and match restriction.

It's all a trick question, at T3 the solitaire gets gunned down by bolters or lasguns or pulse rifles (ouch!) or basically any RF troop weapon and dies staring into the lifeless masks of the troope as they meet the same fate.

That's unless they can get original VoT or an outflanking assault transport that allows charges out of reserves.

Pro tip: don't hold your breath.

I used to hold this opinion but the majority view here one on other web pages I have read all agree that both abilities work together.

I agree that a definitive answer would be helpful to put an end to the debate, but bear in mind that everywhere you get these situations, Games Workshop uses the same copy and paste wording for a reason.

'Attacks with this weapon...' This phrase is used when describing a special rule that applies just to attacks with that weapon.

'The bearer of this weapon...' This phrase is used when an effect applies to the bearer of the weapon.

'A model equipped with this weapon...' Similar as being the bearer of the weapon. By having, or being equipped with, this weapon, gives you the rule it is about to mention.

Examples:
We've already mentioned the Staff of Ulthamar. Now on to the Shard of Anaris. The bearer of that weapon is fearless, but then it goes on to expressly say that attacks with that weapon have certain other effects. If you have another bit of CC wargear in there too (assume we are outfitting an Autarch here) he's still fearless from possessing the Shard just by being the bearer of the weapon, as the words used confirm.

I have had a look through the rest of Codex Eldar and Iyanden and Games Workshop is very good at expressly saying 'attacks by this weapon...'. They even expressly say it for the Harlequin's Caress, but word it differently for the Kiss and Embrace.

In short, there is a reason that the rule doesn't say 'attacks made by this weapon allow one D6 as a kiss of death attack'. It just says that if you are equipped with a Harlequin's kiss then one of your close combat attacks (not one of your close combat attacks with that weapon - just one of your close combat attacks) is s6 ap2.

GW word these things consistently for a reason, so why the kiss and caress are deliberately worded like this and 'attacks made by this weapon...' isn't used is for a reason.

Can you provide any written support from Games Workshop to back those claims?