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Hey guys

Just checking on the consensus as to which is better to stick Assault Termies in.

I understand the LR Crusader is very potent for getting the Termies up close and stuck in but at the same time I think I could use the extra AT firepower that the normal LR gives.

Thoughts?

The Crusader is the better assault vehicle, while the Godhammer is the generalist of the two and best used for supporting Tactical Marines or other light units.

SJ

Honestly nether is great. The Standard land raiders only drawback is capacity. It's hands down better outside of that regard so if you don't need the capacity the standard land raider is the better choice.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
The Crusader is the better assault vehicle, while the Godhammer is the generalist of the two and best used for supporting Tactical Marines or other light units.

SJ

Cheers for the info mate.
Just torn between which one to build. Probably end up going to the Crusader due to transporting the Assault Terminators straight in


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Honestly nether is great. The Standard land raiders only drawback is capacity. It's hands down better outside of that regard so if you don't need the capacity the standard land raider is the better choice.

Also a good point.
It will only be transporting a 5 man TH Terminator squad....so capacity isn't the issue
Why is neither great?

I was using the Raven previously but it just takes so long to come on and deploy transported units that make it a bit of a waste in that regard

My main beef with the standard Land Raider is the bad weapon choices and layout. You often have to resort to using the PoTMS to shoot the two lascannons at different targets, which basically wastes the potential of the HB and the MM sponson. And having two long-ranged weapons is at odds with the LR's core function as an assault transport.

And of course, the limited capacity means you can't fit an IC into it (5 terminators or 10 marines completely fills it). The Redeemer suffers from the same weird weapon issues as the regular LR, but it at least has the ability to transport a squad + an extra IC in terminator armor. If the regular LR got bumped up to capacity 12, you would suddenly see it in more lists.

I like the crusader because the weapons layout is more logical. PoTMS the multimelta at a vehicle, and shoot everything else at infantry. And it carries more, so if I need to skip shooting a turn and move 12" + 6" , I'm delivering more bang for the buck.

Well both suffer from not being a Spartan, but between the two listed in the OP the Crusader is the best bet.

The crusader is a lot better imo. If you are getting up close and personal to transport your termis then the hurricanes and mm will be in range. As will the tl ac (which is mathmatically better, or at worst - as good as a lascannon against everything). If you are not getting in close range, then you have to ask yourself why the hell are you paying 250(min)pts on 2 tl lascannons and a tl hb? A dev squad with 4 lascannons is 100pts less, and unless you are running IF CT, even these are considered poor.

Don't get me wrong, I'm firmly in the camp that the Godhammer is the best LR variant as it is the most tactically flexible of the three codex LR's. It's just that for the OP's needs, between the two LRs, the Crusader is a better fit than the Godhammer.

Personally, Is use GKTs in a NSF, so haven't played a alar in years.

SJ

The LRC is a better battlefield taxi
The LR is a better MBT.

The LRC has one job: point towards something nasty and put the pedal down. Shoot guns if able, but deliver the cargo. This gives it a clarity of purpose missing with the phobos. Who also wants to deliver the choppy goodness, but also wants to hang back and put holes in things with the godhammers.

I’m not fond the the hurricane bolters. Let’s be honest, more bolter fire is not something most marines lists need. I do like TLAsCs though, and the MM is a must have on the LRC IMHO.

TLLCs are always welcome on the battlefield. The HBs are useful sometimes, but nothing to write home about. MM is more optional here.

The capacity is a big deal for me. Whenever I build a list, I need a place to stick my HQ, and due to the nature of marines, with the assault unit is a good answer. LRC has space, LR doesn’t. For terminators anyway, command squads or VVs can do fine with the LR.

Thanks for all the answers guys. Really appreciate the feedback. It seems like the Crusader is the way to go for my needs.....along the lines of what I was thinking.

 Nevelon wrote:
The LRC is a better battlefield taxi
The LR is a better MBT.

The LRC has one job: point towards something nasty and put the pedal down. Shoot guns if able, but deliver the cargo. This gives it a clarity of purpose missing with the phobos. Who also wants to deliver the choppy goodness, but also wants to hang back and put holes in things with the godhammers.

I’m not fond the the hurricane bolters. Let’s be honest, more bolter fire is not something most marines lists need. I do like TLAsCs though, and the MM is a must have on the LRC IMHO.

TLLCs are always welcome on the battlefield. The HBs are useful sometimes, but nothing to write home about. MM is more optional here.

The capacity is a big deal for me. Whenever I build a list, I need a place to stick my HQ, and due to the nature of marines, with the assault unit is a good answer. LRC has space, LR doesn’t. For terminators anyway, command squads or VVs can do fine with the LR.

I'd rather have vehicles with hurricane bolters than tac marines.

I value them as crusader > redeemer > godhammer.

Both of the former can bring a big squad plus indies, which means I'm not paying a crap ton of points to transport just a normal squad, or a Demi squad with a character.

Tlac is a great gun, and will pretty much always be firing from machine spirit.

Both of the former combine well with termies. They both have decent anti-horde firepower so that the termies then get in to hammer big things. Crusader gives your guys frag grenades so you'll go before that big horde unit with your lightning claws rather than after just because one guy stepped on a twig. Flame cannons are no joke. You're either dead or the kind of target termies want to go after.

I do miss when our BA raiders had deep strike. I used the "nothing scatters" asset in a big apoc game and landed a redeemer right next to a big squad of Khorne berserkers and a squad of plague marines on the other side. One machine spirit later, Redeemer paid for itself almost twice over right there. The deep striking crusader was not able to do anything remotely close to that.

 Nevelon wrote:
The LRC has one job: point towards something nasty and put the pedal down. Shoot guns if able, but deliver the cargo. This gives it a clarity of purpose missing with the phobos. Who also wants to deliver the choppy goodness, but also wants to hang back and put holes in things with the godhammers.

That's the way to think about it. On turn 1, your Land Raider should be dashing 12+6 inches across the battlefield, trying to get your Assault Terminators into position for a turn 2 assault. If you play it right, you might be able to just sit still on turn 2 and fire at full effect, while your passengers make their 6" disembark and then charge.

LRC or Spartan assault tank.

The only 2 landraider variants I would use in an assault terminator transport role.

Technically, Stormravens are the best Land Raider variant. Just say'n. Too bad you can't get them as Godhammers or Redeemers.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Technically, Stormravens are the best Land Raider variant. Just say'n. Too bad you can't get them as Godhammers or Redeemers.

SJ

Yep. Only downside is forced reserves unless taking a landing pad.

The base LR suffers from schizophrenia (it can't decide what it wants to do and as a result it isn't particularly good at anything), the Crusader and Redeemer are both effective close support/assault transports.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
The base LR suffers from schizophrenia (it can't decide what it wants to do and as a result it isn't particularly good at anything), the Crusader and Redeemer are both effective close support/assault transports.

That's only because you miss the point if the Godhamner, as it is not a close assault vehicle. It is a main battle tank that totes along its own screen of "passengers". With a Godhammer, you can sit back to punch holes in heavy targets, or dominate mid-range via scooting-n-shooting, or close to drop off a care package of close range Marines. Crusaders and Redeemers have their battle field role dictated by their close range loadout, which forces a player to close or waste their points with an over price assault barge. The Godhammer, on the other hand, retains tactical flexibility for a tactically flexible player.

That said, most vehicles suck in 7th Ed, being either too fragile, too expensive, or both. As such, always have a plan for your big box vehicle when you include it in a list, and always remember this rule of thumb:

1 Big Box is a target
2 Big Boxes are a tactic
3 Big Boxes are a strategy (because with that many points tied up in three models, you better have a strategy)

SJ