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I can't say no to the fab five flyrants.

 jy2 wrote:

 CaptainJay wrote:
I didn't think Jet Pack models could make an assault move if they are part of a non-jet pack unit...

 Dozer Blades wrote:
There's no restriction.

Dozer is correct.

Think Buffmander with broadsides. Heck, think broadsides with missile drones.

Hmmm, maybe you guys play it different in the USA. I'll check my rulebook when I get chance, but I thought the argument went along the lines of

Only JP units can make assault moves.
A JP model attached to a none JP unit or a unit that contains none JP models is a mixed unit, not a JP unit.
Ergo no assault moves.

Or is this one of those rules like a mixed bike and infantry unit, so technically the unit shouldn't be able to make flat-out/run moves because each one prevents the other from doing so, but makes no sense in game...

 CaptainJay wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

 CaptainJay wrote:
I didn't think Jet Pack models could make an assault move if they are part of a non-jet pack unit...

 Dozer Blades wrote:
There's no restriction.

Dozer is correct.

Think Buffmander with broadsides. Heck, think broadsides with missile drones.

Hmmm, maybe you guys play it different in the USA. I'll check my rulebook when I get chance, but I thought the argument went along the lines of

Only JP units can make assault moves.
A JP model attached to a none JP unit or a unit that contains none JP models is a mixed unit, not a JP unit.
Ergo no assault moves.

Or is this one of those rules like a mixed bike and infantry unit, so technically the unit shouldn't be able to make flat-out/run moves because each one prevents the other from doing so, but makes no sense in game...

No restriction. The best in-game example of this occurring is the Tau Sniper Drone team. Generally the Firewarrior Marksman will remain stationary while the Sniper drones move up 6', shoot, and then jump back. Not only is it not restricted by the rules, it's also supported in the flavor text in it's codex entry:

“Thanks to their anti-gravitic jets, the Sniper Drones can move, momentarily steady themselves, shoot at their quarry, and then move back behind cover, making them very hard to target with ranged weapons.”

Excerpt From: Games Workshop Ltd. “Codex: Tau Empire.” iBooks.

 CaptainJay wrote:
Hmmm, maybe you guys play it different in the USA. I'll check my rulebook when I get chance, but I thought the argument went along the lines of

Only JP units can make assault moves.
A JP model attached to a none JP unit or a unit that contains none JP models is a mixed unit, not a JP unit.
Ergo no assault moves.

Or is this one of those rules like a mixed bike and infantry unit, so technically the unit shouldn't be able to make flat-out/run moves because each one prevents the other from doing so, but makes no sense in game...

None of these "mixed unit" restrictions have existed since 5th Edition; even then, the whole issue was predicated on a single clause, which was that units always moved at the speed of their slowest member. That led to the interpretation of any situation where one model in a unit could perform a move but the others couldn't as being illegal, as the "slowest member" would not be moving at all, so nobody was allowed to move.

6th dropped that clause and had nothing similar, so people tend to allow models in mixed units to move independently following their own rules.

DJ3 wrote:

 CaptainJay wrote:
Hmmm, maybe you guys play it different in the USA. I'll check my rulebook when I get chance, but I thought the argument went along the lines of

Only JP units can make assault moves.
A JP model attached to a none JP unit or a unit that contains none JP models is a mixed unit, not a JP unit.
Ergo no assault moves.

Or is this one of those rules like a mixed bike and infantry unit, so technically the unit shouldn't be able to make flat-out/run moves because each one prevents the other from doing so, but makes no sense in game...

None of these "mixed unit" restrictions have existed since 5th Edition; even then, the whole issue was predicated on a single clause, which was that units always moved at the speed of their slowest member. That led to the interpretation of any situation where one model in a unit could perform a move but the others couldn't as being illegal, as the "slowest member" would not be moving at all, so nobody was allowed to move.

6th dropped that clause and had nothing similar, so people tend to allow models in mixed units to move independently following their own rules.

Heh, looks like I'm getting 5th ed hang-ups. Cheers for the explanations guys.

NecroNid practice game completed on p. 2.


Coming up next, Decurion Purecrons vs White Scars/Dark Angels with Knight Castigator!

Very exciting rep, damn close in the end.

I voted for newcrons. Would be the biggest achievement by far.

Looks like newcrons are winning the poll. Will you stick with popular demand Jy2? Or is the poll just a reference?

I bet he takes necronids in one form or another.

 Red Corsair wrote:
I bet he takes necronids in one form or another.

I bet he's not the only one with tyranids+frenemies at LVO

Budzerker wrote:
I voted for newcrons. Would be the biggest achievement by far.

Looks like newcrons are winning the poll. Will you stick with popular demand Jy2? Or is the poll just a reference?

Only if 1) I find a Necron build I think is strong enough to compete with the other top-tier armies and 2) if I can build/paint such an army in time. Honestly, I don't know if that would be possible, even if I use as much of my current models as possible....unless you want to consider Newcrons + allied secondary army as still bringing the Newcrons.

 Red Corsair wrote:
I bet he takes necronids in one form or another.

That is definitely a possibility. Technically, it would still be considered bringing the Newcrons.

Or technically, it could be considered bring Tyranids as well. Lol.

thanatos67 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
I bet he takes necronids in one form or another.

I bet he's not the only one with tyranids+frenemies at LVO

I bet there's someone else here Cooking up Tyranids + frenemies.

But Justin case you don't know who that might be....neither do I.

I'd echo a final point that a previous poster made. If you have practiced that much with Pents....then go with them. Theres little substitute for experience and knowing strenghts/weaknesses inside out.

Take them based on your "training" and roll over em like a 200lbs Greasy Fast Italian Tank as Mickey would coach.

 Ratius wrote:
I'd echo a final point that a previous poster made. If you have practiced that much with Pents....then go with them. Theres little substitute for experience and knowing strenghts/weaknesses inside out.

Take them based on your "training" and roll over em like a 200lbs Greasy Fast Italian Tank as Mickey would coach.

They have a very real chance of seeing tournament play.

thanatos67 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
I bet he takes necronids in one form or another.

I bet he's not the only one with tyranids+frenemies at LVO

Yuck! Where was the vote to ban CTA allies gain?

The LVO image for this year should have been a drunk flyrant exposing itself or something


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jy2 wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
I'd echo a final point that a previous poster made. If you have practiced that much with Pents....then go with them. Theres little substitute for experience and knowing strenghts/weaknesses inside out.

Take them based on your "training" and roll over em like a 200lbs Greasy Fast Italian Tank as Mickey would coach.

They have a very real chance of seeing tournament play.

Now I want to see J try and become both 200lbs and greasy let alone Italian!

Jy, how do you know your first round opponent?

 doktor_g wrote:
Jy, how do you know your first round opponent?

Because he issued a challenge to me and I've accepted. Reece is ok with challenges on the 1st round.

 jy2 wrote:

 doktor_g wrote:
Jy, how do you know your first round opponent?

Because he issued a challenge to me and I've accepted. Reece is ok with challenges on the 1st round.

Yeah so if anyone wants to challenge me and get stomped round one all ya gotta do is ask .

Jim have you figured out how to make decurion not suck yet?

thanatos67 wrote:
Yeah so if anyone wants to challenge me and get stomped round one all ya gotta do is ask .

Jim have you figured out how to make decurion not suck yet?

It doesn't suck, though I have not come out with a list yet that I think can match up well against all the other top-tier tournament armies. Just running 24 wraiths isn't the answer IMO. Balance is key. Building a balanced but yet strong TAC Necron list is a challenge, that's for sure.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

1850 DECURION NEWCRONS VS BIKER MARINES

Had my very first practice game with the new Necrons using the actual Necron army build, the Decurion detachment. I ran the Reclamation Legion along with 1 Canoptek Harvest and 1 Destroyer Cult (it was all I could fit at 1850). With the new Decurion, don't expect to be spamming Necron units (with the exception of the destroyers in the Destroyer Cult). The new codex wasn't designed with Spam in mind, at least not at the lower points levels.

My opponent for the game, John, is practicing what is potentially his army for the LVO. He is currently the Best Dark Angels player on the ITC leaderboard, but with regards to our history, I think he's only been able to beat me twice in singles competition (not counting the 2-on-2 games we had, where we usually didn't go past Turn 3). He actually did pretty well at the BAO last year (better than I) and took Best Dark Angels player there as well. So I think this will be a good practice for my Purecrons.


1850 Decurion Newcrons (my list)

Reclamation Legion:

Nemesor Zandrekh

5x Immortals - Gauss
10x Warriors - Ghost Ark
10x Warriors - Ghost Ark

6x Tomb Blades - 3+, TL-Gauss, Ignore Cover

Destroyer Cult:

Destroyer Lord - Nightmare Shroud, Warscythe, Phase Shifter

3x Destroyers
3x Destroyers
3x Destroyers
2x Heavy Destroyers

Canoptek Harvest:

Spider

3x Scarabs

6x Wraiths - 4x Whip Coils



1850 White Scars/Dark Angels



This is an approximation of his list. Honestly, I am not sure which is his Primary detachment since all of his models were painted to the Ultramarines Chapter.


White Scars:

Captain on a bike

8x Bikers - 2x Meltas, Attack bike w/Multi-melta
8x Bikers - 2x Meltas, Attack bike w/Multi-melta
8x Bikers - 2x Gravguns, Attack bike w/Multi-melta

2x Forgeworld TL-Dual Heavy Bolters (Artillery unit)

Sicarian Battle Tank
Thunderfire Cannon

Knight Castigator

Dark Angels:

Librarian

5x Tacticals - Meltagun, Drop Pod
5x Tacticals - Meltagun, Drop Pod


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Missions:


Primary Objectives: Emperor's Will, 4-pts


Secondary Objectives: Modified Maelstrom, 3-pts

1. Hold Maelstrom Objective 1.
2. Hold Maelstrom Objective 2.
3. Have a scoring unit at least partially within the enemy deployment zone.
4. Destroy an Enemy Unit.
5. Destroy an Enemy Unit.
6. Have at least 3 of your and none of your opponent's scoring units in your deployment zone.


Tertiary Objectives: First Blood, Linebreaker, Slay the Warlord, 1-pt each


Deployment: Dawn of War


1st Turn: Necrons


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


PRE-GAME ANALYSIS:

My army is tough as nails, as my opponent will soon find out. 3+/4+ saves with 4+ Reanimation Protocols and possibly re-rolls of '1' with my RP rolls, this army isn't going to be losing very many models, that's for sure. Moreover, I can bring back warriors every turn thanks to the ghost arks. If there's one thing that this army does well, that is survive.

Now, what remains to be seen is how good its offense is. S4 shooting vs T5 isn't exactly great, though I do bring lots of it. Destroyer shooting probably won't be as effective in this game as it would have been in others, as my opponent will be getting 3+ jink saves for his biker units. However, my wraithstar (wraiths + Destroyer Lord) should be a monster this game. It'll mulch any unit that gets in its way, including the Imperial Knight. If my opponent can take down my wraithstar, then he can potentially win this. If not, then I have a very good chance to win this game IMO.

As with my last game (NecroNids vs Oldcrons), my opponent will have 2 huge advantages this game. First, he is going 2nd in an objectives-based game against an army that isn't a very good long-range shooting army (and who is only ok at mid-range). Secondly and more importantly, ALL of his troops are ObSec! With combat squads, that's 10 ObSec units going 2nd in an Objectives-based game! That alone should put my opponent's army as the favorite and I as the underdog in this game.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


DEPLOYMENT:




-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Necrons 1




Biker Marines 1




Necrons 2




Biker Marines 2




Necrons 3




Biker Marines 3




Necrons 4




Biker Marines 4




Necrons 5




Biker Marines 5




-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


POST-GAME ANALYSIS:

What if you ran necron cad+canoptek harvest? I really like the combo of reanimation wraiths+orikan's special ability. Overal I think orikan is my favorite special character in newcrons because he's a cheap buff character that can and should eventually become a combat beast during the game. Bunkering him into the wraithstar just makes it that much more likely that he'll survive till beast mode happens, and he makes wraithstar so hard to kill its basically on par with screamer star for durability (3++ rerolling 1s with 4+ reanimation and a 2+/4++ rerolling 1s dlord with 4+ reanimation). I'm just not sure what to add to the rest of that list to make it work past that wraithstar...maybe spam out spyders and scarabs?

thanatos67 wrote:
What if you ran necron cad+canoptek harvest? I really like the combo of reanimation wraiths+orikan's special ability. Overal I think orikan is my favorite special character in newcrons because he's a cheap buff character that can and should eventually become a combat beast during the game. Bunkering him into the wraithstar just makes it that much more likely that he'll survive till beast mode happens, and he makes wraithstar so hard to kill its basically on par with screamer star for durability (3++ rerolling 1s with 4+ reanimation and a 2+/4++ rerolling 1s dlord with 4+ reanimation). I'm just not sure what to add to the rest of that list to make it work past that wraithstar...maybe spam out spyders and scarabs?

It's a good combo and I plan to run it myself. However, the problem I am finding with wraithspam is in its ability (or rather, inability) to deal with flyer armies. Anti-air, which was once a strength of the army, has now become a liability with the new Necrons. Flyrant-spam, the stormguppy formation, etc. will be a problem for an unbalanced Necron list (i.e. like wraithspam). Now flyers might have problems removing all of those wraiths, but still, a flyer-heavy army going 2nd can just play to the objectives on Turn 5 while focusing on the wraiths throughout the game. With the volume-of-fire of a build like flyrant-spam or the Tyrannic War Veterans, they can and they will thin out the wraiths over time, at least enough to make it hard for wraiths to contest multiple objectives near the end of the game.

As good as the Canoptek Harvest formation is, it has a weakness that can be easily exploited. Just kill the spider. If you should hide the spider, then you limit the mobility of the wraiths as they lose their RP should they move more than 12" from the spider. More experienced generals, however, will focus on the units easier to kill first, namely the spider and the naked wraith units.

Anti-air is one of the main reasons why I've allied Tyranids to Necrons. I think they actually complement each other very well. Flyrants to rule the skies and wraiths to dominate the ground. Together, it is a very synergistic combo IMO. Now how to fit Orikan in there, hmmmm....

 jy2 wrote:

thanatos67 wrote:
What if you ran necron cad+canoptek harvest? I really like the combo of reanimation wraiths+orikan's special ability. Overal I think orikan is my favorite special character in newcrons because he's a cheap buff character that can and should eventually become a combat beast during the game. Bunkering him into the wraithstar just makes it that much more likely that he'll survive till beast mode happens, and he makes wraithstar so hard to kill its basically on par with screamer star for durability (3++ rerolling 1s with 4+ reanimation and a 2+/4++ rerolling 1s dlord with 4+ reanimation). I'm just not sure what to add to the rest of that list to make it work past that wraithstar...maybe spam out spyders and scarabs?

It's a good combo and I plan to run it myself. However, the problem I am finding with wraithspam is in its ability (or rather, inability) to deal with flyer armies. Anti-air, which was once a strength of the army, has now become a liability with the new Necrons. Flyrant-spam, the stormguppy formation, etc. will be a problem for an unbalanced Necron list (i.e. like wraithspam). Now flyers might have problems removing all of those wraiths, but still, a flyer-heavy army going 2nd can just play to the objectives on Turn 5 while focusing on the wraiths throughout the game. With the volume-of-fire of a build like flyrant-spam or the Tyrannic War Veterans, they can and they will thin out the wraiths over time, at least enough to make it hard for wraiths to contest multiple objectives near the end of the game.

As good as the Canoptek Harvest formation is, it has a weakness that can be easily exploited. Just kill the spider. If you should hide the spider, then you limit the mobility of the wraiths as they lose their RP should they move more than 12" from the spider. More experienced generals, however, will focus on the units easier to kill first, namely the spider and the naked wraith units.

Anti-air is one of the main reasons why I've allied Tyranids to Necrons. I think they actually complement each other very well. Flyrants to rule the skies and wraiths to dominate the ground. Together, it is a very synergistic combo IMO. Now how to fit Orikan in there, hmmmm....

The hitch in that is I believe orikans reroll only affects models in his unit that have reanimation, which if you take something like cron cad+leviathan you won't have. If you can get it in decurion that'd work, but i think you suck up too many pts between making a functioning reclamation legion and all the points you have to dump in just to get access to orikan in the court+the harvest formation, and no destroyer lord. So you'd either roll with a bare bones reclamation legion or cut down to 2 flyrants.

thanatos67 wrote:
The hitch in that is I believe orikans reroll only affects models in his unit that have reanimation, which if you take something like cron cad+leviathan you won't have. If you can get it in decurion that'd work, but i think you suck up too many pts between making a functioning reclamation legion and all the points you have to dump in just to get access to orikan in the court+the harvest formation, and no destroyer lord. So you'd either roll with a bare bones reclamation legion or cut down to 2 flyrants.

Even if the unit does not have RP, Orikan is still useful. Don't forget that Orikan allows the unit to re-roll saves of '1'. Thus, put a D-lord in front and you have a 2+ re-rollable tank. Wraiths will basically have a 2+ save with the re-roll 1's. And he will still benefit your D-lord with 4+ RP at the very least.

Personally, in my NecroNid army, if I were to take Orikan, I'd drop some wraiths/whip coils instead. Or I just wouldn't run Orikan. Going to have to playtest him in my list.

Jim have you considered running a maxed out Flayer squad with a Royal Court added? Run Nemesor in a Night Scythe and put Obyron in the Flayers so on turn two when you fly on with Nemesor you can use Obyron's ability to pick up the whole deathstar and deepstrike them within 12" of the Night Scythe without scattering. Plus you can run the Solar Pulse artifact and a Ressurection Orb to really boost up the defense of that unit for one turn. Then on the next turn you can cause havoc.

Are flayers the same thing as flayed ones ?

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Are flayers the same thing as flayed ones ?

Yeah sorry I couldn't remember their names.

Looking forward to this bat rep!

And thanks for coming out to my birthday the other night, Jim!

 y0disisray wrote:
Jim have you considered running a maxed out Flayer squad with a Royal Court added? Run Nemesor in a Night Scythe and put Obyron in the Flayers so on turn two when you fly on with Nemesor you can use Obyron's ability to pick up the whole deathstar and deepstrike them within 12" of the Night Scythe without scattering. Plus you can run the Solar Pulse artifact and a Ressurection Orb to really boost up the defense of that unit for one turn. Then on the next turn you can cause havoc.

If I were to run maxed out flayed ones, I'd rather do it with the D-lord for some tanking/Prefered Enemy and either Szeras for the 6" +1 RP or Orikan. With Infiltrate, your really don't need the Teleport shenanigans....that'll only slow you down. Infiltrate and there is a good chance you will assault on T2. Wait for flyer to come in on T2 and then teleport means that the earliest you could assault would be T3....assuming Zandrehk even comes in on T2.

If you want to run the Veil + Solar Staff trick, then I'd recommend doing so with Lychguards or Praetorians (preferably Praetorians).

BTW, I don't have the models to spam a flayed one Necron army, at least not yet.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Are flayers the same thing as flayed ones ?

No, flayers are the gauss weapons (gauss flayers), which are basically glorified boltguns. The insane necrons are the flayed ones.

 Reecius wrote:
Looking forward to this bat rep!

And thanks for coming out to my birthday the other night, Jim!

Thanks Reece. And happy b-day!

For my next battle report, it will be exclusively for your blog.

In my opinion from choices you've proposed Lance wit Rants is the best. There is so few good counters to that. I've played against the same list once and I have to admit it's hard as f*k.

But I belive, newcrons gonna be more interesting.

Tell me how do you competetive guys in US interpret Canoptek Harvest wording. May I have only 1 spyder in formation? Or may I buy it and then buy him upgrades normally as described in heavy support section. Which means not only wargear but including two more spyders to this one as well? I'm looking forward to see a faq, but i know it's a pipe dream only.

 SwistakCZC wrote:
In my opinion from choices you've proposed Lance wit Rants is the best. There is so few good counters to that. I've played against the same list once and I have to admit it's hard as f*k.

But I belive, newcrons gonna be more interesting.

Tell me how do you competetive guys in US interpret Canoptek Harvest wording. May I have only 1 spyder in formation? Or may I buy it and then buy him upgrades normally as described in heavy support section. Which means not only wargear but including two more spyders to this one as well? I'm looking forward to see a faq, but i know it's a pipe dream only.

I know for the LVO and all of their other tournaments they're going to rule that it is literally only one Spyder. I'm sure you can purchase all of the upgrades except adding additional Spyders. I feel this is both RAW and RAI.