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Good report as always. Thanks for inside and sharing.
Question: Why deep striking the Destroyers?

Warmonger2757 wrote:

I disagree, destroyers are great against bikes because it forces the bikes to jink and that just punishes them in their shooting phase. With the re-rolls and AP3, if they don't jink, you are looking at better than 75% wound rate. If you can keep the enemy jinked across the board, you will have even more durability. Unless White Scars have a rule that lets them get full BS after they jink that I am not aware of.

True, but bikes are still useful after jinking with their mobility and often TL guns. Plus there are cheaper ways to encourage a jink.

 jy2 wrote:

Here's a list another poster here has submitted to me (I won't name him in case if he wants anonymity). It consists of CAD + Destroyer Cult and I think it has the potential to be really good:


CAD:

Destroyer Lord - Wargear

2x5 Immortals

16-17x wraiths w/whip coils

Heavy Destroyer
Heavy Destroyer

Destroyer Cult:

Destroyer Lord - Wargear

2x Destroyers, 1x Heavy Destroyer
2x Destroyers, 1x Heavy Destroyer
2x Destroyers, 1x Heavy Destroyer

3x Heavy Destroyers

I think that looks very strong. What wargear would you give the Destoyer Lords? This list would come to exactly 1850.

CAD
Destroyer Lord w/ Warscythe, Phase Shifter, Phylactery

5x Immortals
5x Immortals

5x Wraiths w/ Whip Coils
5x Wraiths w/ Whip Coils
5x Wraiths w/ Whip Coils

2x Heavy Destroyers

Destroyer Cult
Destroyer Lord w/ Warscythe, Phase Shifter

2x Destroyer with 1x Heavy Destroyer
2x Destroyer with 1x Heavy Destroyer
2x Destroyer with 1x Heavy Destroyer
2x Heavy Destroyer

There's some wiggle room between the number of heavy destroyers and wraiths but all in all it looks very mobile and deadly.

JY2 you are welcome to try out my build with the maxed tomb blades. I have come to love my tomb blades. I run them in maxed out units as the volume of fire is needed to counter balance the lack of ap. Let me know what you think of the build if you do run it. It is hard to play test it here...

Zimko -

It was my list I sent JY2, he gave me some great advice and the new list is (comes to 1850 on the dot)

Destroyer Cult

Destroyer Lord
The Nightmare Shroud, Warscythe

2x Destroyer, Heavy Destroyer

2x Destroyer, Heavy Destroyer

2x Destroyer, Heavy Destroyer

3x Heavy Destroyer

Combined Arms Detachment
HQ
Destroyer Lord
Phase Shifter, Voidreaper
Troops

5x Immortal
5x Gauss Blaster

5x Immortal
5x Gauss Blaster

Fast Attack
Wraiths 17 of them with a total of 10 whip coils


Heavy Support

Heavy Destroyer

Heavy Destroyer

I might be a little bit short on whip coils, but I like the balance it has atm, the 2+ armour save lord doesnt have an invun but I expect him to tank as much as possible with his 2+ so a 4++ might not be a value play on him.

Ah very nice. Yeah I doubt the lack of Invul will be a big issue since you can just Look Out Sir all the shots that need an invul. Great list!

Wouldn't it be good to try and get the immortals into Night Scythes for objective taking shenanigans and a little AA?

Tekron wrote:

Warmonger2757 wrote:

I disagree, destroyers are great against bikes because it forces the bikes to jink and that just punishes them in their shooting phase. With the re-rolls and AP3, if they don't jink, you are looking at better than 75% wound rate. If you can keep the enemy jinked across the board, you will have even more durability. Unless White Scars have a rule that lets them get full BS after they jink that I am not aware of.

True, but bikes are still useful after jinking with their mobility and often TL guns. Plus there are cheaper ways to encourage a jink.

What did you have in mind? I am only tracking destroyers, barges, monolith, Staff of Light, and the few AP2 weapons we have. If you have an idea of how to get bikes to jink that costs less than 120 points, let me know. I might have missed something good.

Great Battle report Jim. It was super fun to play against you as always. ;-)

Warmonger2757 wrote:

Tekron wrote:

Warmonger2757 wrote:

I disagree, destroyers are great against bikes because it forces the bikes to jink and that just punishes them in their shooting phase. With the re-rolls and AP3, if they don't jink, you are looking at better than 75% wound rate. If you can keep the enemy jinked across the board, you will have even more durability. Unless White Scars have a rule that lets them get full BS after they jink that I am not aware of.

True, but bikes are still useful after jinking with their mobility and often TL guns. Plus there are cheaper ways to encourage a jink.

What did you have in mind? I am only tracking destroyers, barges, monolith, Staff of Light, and the few AP2 weapons we have. If you have an idea of how to get bikes to jink that costs less than 120 points, let me know. I might have missed something good.

For Necrons destroyers and heavy destroyers are best at it, the problem here is the destroyer cult increases the min unit size so you are using a lot of shots to do it. 3 single heavies could probably make them jink as much as 3 units of 3 destroyers.

The Destroyer Cult also allows 3 HQs in a CAD which is really useful. You can in fact fit 3 units of wraiths 3 Destroyer lords along with a Destroyer Cult into a 1850 which is pretty boss. That's all you'll have but you can do it.

Personally I'm just not sold on Destroyer Lords in the new book--definitely not if you're trying to play a Decurion and have to pay a huge tax in Destroyers just to get him. He obviously got more survivable, but got worse in every other way (speed/offense/MSS) but most importantly, in my opinion, he just isn't as necessary anymore with Wraiths being bumped to T5. This is even more true if you're planning on trying the Harvest to pull RP shenanigans (and you're convinced you can keep that Spyder alive somehow); volume of fire is their downfall, but it's not exactly a glaring weakness anymore once you take those two things into account. And all the Destroyer Lord can do about it is sit in front of them (assuming consistently average/above average Jet Pack rolls) and hope all the firepower is coming from one direction; if it's not, his ability to protect them is rendered pointless.

He's also more or less completely lost the ability to split off and act as a secondary threat; you can talk all you want about the Jet Pack move theoretically allowing him to keep up with the Wraiths as they move, but he's completely reliant on them to get him into the fight. On turns he intends to assault, he's just a standard Infantry model, and we all know that's too slow. In a test game, a friend broke him off from the Wraiths (so they'd have their Fleet in case they failed a long charge, as he's an active detriment to that now) and he ended up just meaninglessly floating around an empty table quarter trying (and failing) to react to Maelstrom objectives until Fateweaver dropped a unit of Daemonettes on his head to put him out of his misery. It was honestly a little sad.

Warmonger2757 wrote:
I disagree, destroyers are great against bikes because it forces the bikes to jink and that just punishes them in their shooting phase. With the re-rolls and AP3, if they don't jink, you are looking at better than 75% wound rate. If you can keep the enemy jinked across the board, you will have even more durability. Unless White Scars have a rule that lets them get full BS after they jink that I am not aware of.

Forcing Bikes to Jink is only a worthwhile measure if you're playing an army those bikes needed to defeat via shooting in the first place; in many ways it's a self-defeating concept, and part of why Bikes are so good right now. Look at it this way:

If you've got enough low-AP shooting to force a meaningful amount of the Bike units to Jink, you're probably playing a shooty army, and they'll just come beat you in the face with their Marine statlines plus T5 and S5 Hammer of Wrath and Hit and Run.

If you're playing an assault army, you probably don't have enough low-AP shooting to force a meaningful amount of Bike units to Jink, and they'll just float around midfield besieging you with Grav and TL Bolter shots.

Against jy2's list, they're more than happy to Jink and come punch you in the face--with the obvious exception of the Wraith unit. The Decurion rules did a great job of keeping him alive in the face of standard-Marine assaults though, but that was solely because it was a rather straight Bike list--a hybrid Champions of Fenris/Thunderwolf list (which is becoming more common than straight Bikes lately) would have made a mess of any non-Wraith units it touched.

Hollismason wrote:
Gaze of Death is a seriously broken ability and can straight up murderize a lot of Death Stars and can target Flying Monstrous Creatures, AP2 , Ignore Cover wounds is pretty boss Even if it has a 18" range basically.

It's good but I wouldn't go so far as to say it is broken. It can only affect 1 unit, unlike the Doom of Ma'lantai, which back then affected ALL units within range.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hollismason wrote:
Imma try it out regardless even if it doesn't kill Flyers having basically a 36inch wide line of Do not come here is pretty good and makes the FMC player at least think about what their gonna do other than. Fly forward shoot the crap out of everyone.

Coolio. Let us know how he works out for you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Warmonger2757 wrote:

Tekron wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

Ok, so here are my thoughts on the new Necrons with the Decurion detachment. It is super-resilient. However, it's offense is also somewhat stagnant. I've got basically 1 hard-hitting hammer unit, my wraithstar, but as soon as it went down, the offense of the rest of the army was just mediocre. To be fair, however, I think the Destroyer Cult would have done better against another army. But against White Scars, where their jink saves are the same as their armor saves, the effectiveness of the destroyer offense just wasn't that great.

Also, mobility is an issue with this army. Sure the wraithstar is fast. Sure, my tomb blades are fast. And it's great that destroyers can deepstrike all over the table. However, the core of my army is somewhat slow (without the night scythes) and can be trapped by the more aggressive armies. The new Decurion just does not have the speed that made the previous Necrons sooooo good. Currently, you just can't do the last turn objective-grab/contest that has won so many games for me before (and if you do, it will be at a premium in terms of cost).

I don't think it's fair to blame the decurion that your list lacked punch. Your entire heavy support consisted of 2 lascannons. The destroyer cult was 650 points that was never going to kill it's points in enemy models. The d-lord seems the only one that made up its points by killing half an IK. And yeah, against a WS biker list the destroyers are at their absolute worst. Plus, surely with 3 units in reserve you could have taken Hyperlogical Strategist on Zahndrekh turn 2? Unless you already did and just rolled a lot of ones.

As for mobility, again you need to bring it to really know if it's going to work. There's nothing stopping you bringing NS and more tomb blades.

I disagree, destroyers are great against bikes because it forces the bikes to jink and that just punishes them in their shooting phase. With the re-rolls and AP3, if they don't jink, you are looking at better than 75% wound rate. If you can keep the enemy jinked across the board, you will have even more durability. Unless White Scars have a rule that lets them get full BS after they jink that I am not aware of.

There is that aspect, yes. I used my destroyers to keep his melta bikes jinking to make it harder for them to taken down my ghost ark. That does help to make it an even better defensive army, but defense is something the Newcrons are already very good at.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Good report as always. Thanks for inside and sharing.
Question: Why deep striking the Destroyers?

For several reasons:

1) As a disruption unit, especially in the opponent's backfield (I.e. Places where my main forces have trouble reaching).

2) So I can reach the further objectives (I.e. Places where my main forces have trouble reaching).

3) To draw enemy firepower.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tomb King wrote:
JY2 you are welcome to try out my build with the maxed tomb blades. I have come to love my tomb blades. I run them in maxed out units as the volume of fire is needed to counter balance the lack of ap. Let me know what you think of the build if you do run it. It is hard to play test it here...

I'd have to proxy many of those tomb blades but it definitely is an interesting/good build. I probably won't have enough time to play test it until after the LVO though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

swanson4969 wrote:
Wouldn't it be good to try and get the immortals into Night Scythes for objective taking shenanigans and a little AA?

With my list? I'd have to drop something in order to do so. Probably either the heavy destroyers + tomb blades/wraiths or a ghost ark+ tomb blade/wraiths. I don't know, man. Decisions, decisions....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zeztuku wrote:
Great Battle report Jim. It was super fun to play against you as always. ;-)

Thanks for the game John. Turned out to be real close. I didn't actually win the Secondary because we miscounted one of your Maelstrom objectives.

Good luck at the LVO!

Thank god you won't have time to play Tomb Blades... I saw that and that was the one thing I was hoping you didn't get to pick up or have...

Those things are beast >.<

Come on jy2 you can do it !!

Ok, time for some pictures.

Finally finished all 5 of my flyrants (well, about 95% done):




Each one has some unique patterns on its back:





So, now, a couple pics of my armies in its entirety (well, almost):


1850 PENTYRANT TYRANIDS





1850 THE FLUFF-KILLER

BTW, I've modified this list slightly to fit in a Void Shield Generator.

Very fluffy there !

And if that isn't fluffy enough for you, I present to you the longshot, my TyraKnights.


1850 ADLANCE TYRAKNIGHTS






Automatically Appended Next Post:

umbo wrote:
Zimko -

It was my list I sent JY2, he gave me some great advice and the new list is (comes to 1850 on the dot)

Spoiler:

Destroyer Cult

Destroyer Lord
The Nightmare Shroud, Warscythe

2x Destroyer, Heavy Destroyer

2x Destroyer, Heavy Destroyer

2x Destroyer, Heavy Destroyer

3x Heavy Destroyer

Combined Arms Detachment
HQ
Destroyer Lord
Phase Shifter, Voidreaper
Troops

5x Immortal
5x Gauss Blaster

5x Immortal
5x Gauss Blaster

Fast Attack
Wraiths 17 of them with a total of 10 whip coils


Heavy Support

Heavy Destroyer

Heavy Destroyer

I might be a little bit short on whip coils, but I like the balance it has atm, the 2+ armour save lord doesnt have an invun but I expect him to tank as much as possible with his 2+ so a 4++ might not be a value play on him.

I like your list and will probably give it a try after the LVO.

It'll have problems against massed flyers but then again, who cares? Probably only massed flyrants will give it trouble. Otherwise, ignoring the flyers is a viable tactic for this list.

Hollismason wrote:
The Destroyer Cult also allows 3 HQs in a CAD which is really useful. You can in fact fit 3 units of wraiths 3 Destroyer lords along with a Destroyer Cult into a 1850 which is pretty boss. That's all you'll have but you can do it.

At 130-pts for a D-lord with warscythe is a pretty good deal. It is something that I would definitely consider running, though 2 is probably the most you want to run in order to have a more balanced list.

DJ3 wrote:
Personally I'm just not sold on Destroyer Lords in the new book--definitely not if you're trying to play a Decurion and have to pay a huge tax in Destroyers just to get him. He obviously got more survivable, but got worse in every other way (speed/offense/MSS) but most importantly, in my opinion, he just isn't as necessary anymore with Wraiths being bumped to T5. This is even more true if you're planning on trying the Harvest to pull RP shenanigans (and you're convinced you can keep that Spyder alive somehow); volume of fire is their downfall, but it's not exactly a glaring weakness anymore once you take those two things into account. And all the Destroyer Lord can do about it is sit in front of them (assuming consistently average/above average Jet Pack rolls) and hope all the firepower is coming from one direction; if it's not, his ability to protect them is rendered pointless.

He's also more or less completely lost the ability to split off and act as a secondary threat; you can talk all you want about the Jet Pack move theoretically allowing him to keep up with the Wraiths as they move, but he's completely reliant on them to get him into the fight. On turns he intends to assault, he's just a standard Infantry model, and we all know that's too slow. In a test game, a friend broke him off from the Wraiths (so they'd have their Fleet in case they failed a long charge, as he's an active detriment to that now) and he ended up just meaninglessly floating around an empty table quarter trying (and failing) to react to Maelstrom objectives until Fateweaver dropped a unit of Daemonettes on his head to put him out of his misery. It was honestly a little sad.

Just like the D-lord + wraithstar combo of 6E, they are still effective, even without MSS (being able to have an Invuln helps out somewhat against the more killing enemies). Or you can add him to a unit of 20 flayed ones. Or a unit of 10 Lychguards, 10 Praetorians, 6 Destroyers, 10+ Charnel Scarabs, etc. Heck, he'd even help make a unit of 10 deathmarks or 20-warrior brick much more effective. I still see a lot of utility in him, both as a unit buffer, tanking character and beatstick monster.

Darkwynn wrote:
Thank god you won't have time to play Tomb Blades... I saw that and that was the one thing I was hoping you didn't get to pick up or have...

Those things are beast >.<

I like those tomb blades, but I just don't have the time or resources to get that army done in time for the tournament. I guess we'd just have to see how Tomb King does with them at Adepticon.

What models have you used for Mucolid spores?

So what was the point of the poll again?

 SwistakCZC wrote:
What models have you used for Mucolid spores?

It's the Forgeworld Mieotic Spores.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Tyranids/MIEOTIC-SPORE-SACKS.html

 Red Corsair wrote:
So what was the point of the poll again?

The poll is more of a guide than a "command", subject to the fact that I have the army or can finish it in time. My selection will be one of top choices of the poll.

I don't have a pure Necron army that I am satisfied with or that I will finish on time, so it's looking like the 2nd and 3rd choice will be the army that I will be bringing.


----------------------------------------------------------------------


By the ways, I got in another 3 practice games in with my Fluff-Killer NecroNid army. Sorry, no battle reports on these.


Practice Game #2 vs Mechdar

Eldar was running:

Mantle Summonseer

6x5 Dire Avengers in Wave Serpents (all with Holo-fields)

Wraithknight
Wraithknight


Summary - Scouring Primary. Mechdar just did not have the firepower to deal with the flyrants. Flyrants killed 4 of the wave serpents. Wraiths mulched the 2 WK's as well as 2 of the wave serpents. Summonseer got Sacrifice and summoned 2 Heralds before he couldn't summon anymore (down to 1W left). Heralds only managed to successfully summon 1 unit of seekers but they get killed by the wraiths as well. Game ended with 1 flyrant and a few wraiths dead but with Eldar conceding on Turn 4 after losing their last wave serpent and with NecroNids practically covering almost all of the Scouring objectives (and ahead in the Secondaries as well).



Practice Game #3 vs Tau

Tau was running:

Buffmander - Twin-linked, Iridium, Drone Controller

Riptide - Ion, FNP, EWO
Riptide - Ion, FNP, EWO

2x6 Fire Warriors in Devilfish w/Disruption Pods

9x Marker Drones

Skyray - Disruption Pods

Tau Firebase Cadre

Riptide - Ion, FNP, EWO

2x3 Missilesides


Summary - Purge the Alien Primary. This one ended up bad for Tau. I got Master of Ambush and I went first. After Turn 1, my wraiths were just inches from his main force. His Turn 1, even with Ignore Cover, his skyray only managed to deal 2W to my flyrant after firing all 6 of his seeker missiles (thanks to Catalyst). He then focused his entire army into my wraithstar, killing only 2 wraiths and putting a couple of wounds on my other wraiths and D-lord. After that, he conceded because I was about to hit his lines with all 3 units of wraiths and my 3 flyrants. He really didn't like me getting Master of Ambush and going 1st in the Purge the Alien scenario.



Practice Game #4 vs Farsight Tau

My opponent for this game brought the Farsight-bomb

Farsight
Buffmander - everything

6x Bodyguards - all fusions, target locks, 10x gun drones

Riptide - Ion, FNP, EWO
Riptide - Ion, FNP, EWO
Riptide - Ion, EWO

2x6 Fire Warriors in Devilfish w/Disruption Pods


Summary - Emperor's Will Primary. Again, I get Master of Ambush and went 1st. However, this time it would be much closer. He reserved his entire army with the exception of 2 riptides. By the time his Farsight-bomb had come in on Turn 2, I had already killed the 2 riptides that was on the table. However, he was up most of the game on the Secondary (Primary was tied for the most part). At the end of 5, he would have won as he had both Primary and Secondary. Fortunately for me, the game went on. I was finally able to kill off his bomb on T6 when the game ended. He only killed 1 unit of wraiths and both of my troops (immortals). I killed off 2 riptides and his 1000-pt Farsight-bomb. We tied on Primary after I killed off his contesting bomb while his ObSec fire warriors in their ObSec dedicated transport claimed his own Emperor's Will Objective. He thought he had me on the Secondary but after recounting, it turned out to be a tie. I then win on the Tertiary with First Blood (a riptide), Linebreaker (my flyrant) and Warlord to his Linebreaker (his last riptide in my deployment zone) 3-1. A damn close game where I would have lost on T5, barely won on T6 and probably had a dominating win on T7 (would have easily killed his riptide in my deployment zone).

Wraiths - the unit Raveners wish they could be.

I'm pretty excited to see how the fluffkiller list does to be honest. It certainly seems very strong on paper.

Eyjio wrote:
Wraiths - the unit Raveners wish they could be.

I'm pretty excited to see how the fluffkiller list does to be honest. It certainly seems very strong on paper.

Seriously. Sad Raveners are sad.

Glad to see NecroNids perform well Jim. The combo of one of the best ground control units and one of the best air control units certainly is strong. Have you given any thought to changing out a Flyrant for two Night Scythes? I'm not sure it's necessarily better, but the late game objective grabs would be nice I'm sure.

Eyjio wrote:
Wraiths - the unit Raveners wish they could be.

I'm pretty excited to see how the fluffkiller list does to be honest. It certainly seems very strong on paper.

I still have fun with my raveners, even if they aren't the most competitive unit in the codex. Just don't go comparing them with wraiths and you will get a lot more satisfaction out of them.

luke1705 wrote:

Eyjio wrote:
Wraiths - the unit Raveners wish they could be.

I'm pretty excited to see how the fluffkiller list does to be honest. It certainly seems very strong on paper.

Seriously. Sad Raveners are sad.

Glad to see NecroNids perform well Jim. The combo of one of the best ground control units and one of the best air control units certainly is strong. Have you given any thought to changing out a Flyrant for two Night Scythes? I'm not sure it's necessarily better, but the late game objective grabs would be nice I'm sure.

Yeah, I've thought about that (swapping out 1 flyrant for 2 night scythes), but I probably won't make such a change for the tournament. I just don't have enough practice time with such a build, and I also feel kinda naked with only 2 flyrants as opposed to 3.

But mainly, 6 threats on the table, of which 3 is a threat from Turn 1, is better than 5/2 threats in a MTO playstyle. It also increases my chances of getting First Blood, which is all-so-important in the BAO/LVO format, as well as makes it easier for me to face Adlance-type lists.

So is that settled then? Sounds like you're leaning towards taking your fluff killer army to the LVO. I would love to hear the tick in the voices of a few podcasters when they have to announce which army won the LVO (if you get that far)

luke1705 wrote:
So is that settled then? Sounds like you're leaning towards taking your fluff killer army to the LVO. I would love to hear the tick in the voices of a few podcasters when they have to announce which army won the LVO (if you get that far)

No, it isn't actually settled yet. There's still a conflict raging with regards to which army I should bring. It'll probably come down to the wire. I'd really like to bring both armies but unfortunately, I'm going to have to choose.

BTW, my Round #1 matchup should be a great one and a great candidate for a Live Broadcast. I've been challenged and accepted a challenge from Nick Rose (aka Darkwynn), a multiple-GT winner, Ard Boyz winner (the original "Leafblower") and former member of ETC TeamUSA.

I didn't know they broadcast the event live. Is it on the Frontline website?

It's something new that they are trying out. It'll be broadcast via Twitch.

Look at them in the 21st century! Do we get to see Reece in a suit as color commentary?

I doubt Reece will have the time to do so. It'll probably be a 3rd party doing so, with Reece deciding which matches to broadcast.

You know what? I can totally see Geoff "iNcontrol" Robinson doing the commentaries. He's already a professional commentator for Starcraft.