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Upgrades are already capped at a total of 3. So... yeah.

Though honestly I am now a little scared of AP4 SMS. They kinda turn into Heavy flamers on crack... Multching anything that generally hides in cover anyways from a good distance out.

Though this points out that a Torrent heavy flamer is only 25 points... Idk.

Played with the idea, decided against it because it can drastically change the normal preferred target of then weapon. If you wanted to do it, try it for an extra 20 poi ts or so and see what your opponents say about it.

AP.

2.

HYMP.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
Played with the idea, decided against it because it can drastically change the normal preferred target of then weapon. If you wanted to do it, try it for an extra 20 poi ts or so and see what your opponents say about it.

Only reason I suggested it was so a person can duplicate an ap1 DCCW. But I understand the concern. Though a change in target due to a better ap may prove interesting. Though it becomes problematic quickly on weapons that hit a LOT of models at once like blast, template, and barrage. Maybe limit it to melee?

 NorseSig wrote:

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
Played with the idea, decided against it because it can drastically change the normal preferred target of then weapon. If you wanted to do it, try it for an extra 20 poi ts or so and see what your opponents say about it.

Only reason I suggested it was so a person can duplicate an ap1 DCCW. But I understand the concern. Though a change in target due to a better ap may prove interesting. Though it becomes problematic quickly on weapons that hit a LOT of models at once like blast, template, and barrage. Maybe limit it to melee?

Other than the ability to say the weapon is ap1, how often are st10 ap2 equipped robots having trouble destroying vehicles? That's the only benefit that particular upgrade would give you. Like I said, if you really feel it matches the fluff of your dreadnaught, you can just add it. Where is the dreadnought with ap1 located? I'll try and price it out as a separate melee weapon.

It would be really open to abuse.

Imagine a Dreadnaught with
AP3/2 Heavy Flamers
Gattling AP3 Heavy Bolters

a 25% upgrade to make AP2 weapons AP1.
It literally helps kill vehicles, more would be to much. But that would be enough for people to think about it.

 adamsouza wrote:
It would be really open to abuse.

Imagine a Dreadnaught with
AP3/2 Heavy Flamers
Gattling AP3 Heavy Bolters

This is why I suggested it be on MELEE weapons or at least exclude from template, blast, and barrage weapons; and limit to only being taken ONCE. Though on the heavy bolters I think it would be alright. 3 ap 3 heavy bolters don't scare me. The idea of allowing it on ap2 weapons only works too.

LordDavenport wrote:
a 25% upgrade to make AP2 weapons AP1.
It literally helps kill vehicles, more would be to much. But that would be enough for people to think about it.

Call it overpenetration, sounds like a good deal to me. We'll make it an add on too, that way it won't be an easy decision. I'll add that to the next update

what else do you folks have for me?

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:

LordDavenport wrote:
a 25% upgrade to make AP2 weapons AP1.
It literally helps kill vehicles, more would be to much. But that would be enough for people to think about it.

Call it overpenetration, sounds like a good deal to me. We'll make it an add on too, that way it won't be an easy decision. I'll add that to the next update

what else do you folks have for me?

Sounds good. Maybe add the ion shield for those making knights, and the automantic shielding and the helical targeting array for dreads. Maybe even limit these abilities to walkers only and possible size restrictions. Can't think of anything else offhand with those rules. Not saying there isn't but I am just not seeing it at the moment.

The ion shield is listed in the imperium upgrades, right after the weapons. I'll look into atomantic shielding though.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
The ion shield is listed in the imperium upgrades, right after the weapons. I'll look into atomantic shielding though.

Ah I see it I just happened to miss it sorry about that lol. And keep up the great work. What you are doing is greatly appreciated.

It's a pleasure. I originally started it for just my local group, I actually figured someone else would have done it. When I saw they hadn't, I figured I'd throw it out here and see what everyone thought.

In regards to the title, another thing I had noticed was that the more restrictive the races build options are, the cheapernthe weapons. Eldar and dark eldar, for example, get better costed weapons than the imperium, but have weaker guns per point than the necrons.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
It's a pleasure. I originally started it for just my local group, I actually figured someone else would have done it. When I saw they hadn't, I figured I'd throw it out here and see what everyone thought.

In regards to the title, another thing I had noticed was that the more restrictive the races build options are, the cheapernthe weapons. Eldar and dark eldar, for example, get better costed weapons than the imperium, but have weaker guns per point than the necrons.

Which kinda makes sense. More versatility/options usually equates increased price point. Though this can get skewed if the less options are significantly superior. one of my favorite options that you included is the removes gets hot! option. I despise that rule. Every single time I have taken plasma the plasma unit blows itself up doing nothing.

I added it because there are several weapons based off of the plasma cannon on various platforms, and I didn't see a weapon that is they would be based on. So I figured it was an upgrade they added.

So, I was thinking about an upgrade for walkers to allow them the one time purchase of a +1 to initiative. Was thinking the points total would be (# of attacks x new initiative modifier)

What do you guys think? The main bonus of higher initiative is being able to attack before your opponent. I am also adding a designation to tau, eldar/dark, and necrons. It will limit them all to skimmers and walkers, I plan on calling it "hyper advanced" that way I can save space in the description.

First, I want to thank you for doing all of this; it's great work and helped me out a great deal when I put together my fandex.

Secondly, I think the Walker initiative option would be great. The Cerastus Knight-Lancer enjoys the bonus only on the first turn, but I think that can be compensated for easily enough after the fact. Doing attacks * new initiative bonus sounds like it should scale just fine.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
So, I was thinking about an upgrade for walkers to allow them the one time purchase of a +1 to initiative. Was thinking the points total would be (# of attacks x new initiative modifier)

What do you guys think? The main bonus of higher initiative is being able to attack before your opponent. I am also adding a designation to tau, eldar/dark, and necrons. It will limit them all to skimmers and walkers, I plan on calling it "hyper advanced" that way I can save space in the description.

I like it, but I also have a soft spot for walkers and think they don't get enough love (at least dreadnoughts don't).

Should be an option for Tau Drone vehicles with BS as low as 2 but up-gradable.

I think GW also factors physical size of the model into the cost. It's not all a matter of stats.

So I just eyeballed a stock Tau Broadside as a Light Walker with12/11/10 armour and 2 HP. It came in at 71 points with the Blacksun Filter (multi-teacker is redundant).

For 11 extra points the model gains the ability to move and shoot plus immunity to small arms. It also loses its armour save, which may not be a fair trade, especially against autocannon spam (though Lascannons would 1 shot Broadsides regularly).

I thought about going for a medium for the slightly higher AV, but upgrading from 2 wounds to 3 Hull Points seemed a bit much. Though, if the Seeker Missile option counts as a third weapon, it may be necessary.

Interesting thought exercise anyway. Crisis suits as a light walker might work out too, though the stats for HQ characters could get crazy.

Riptide etc would probably have to be heavy or superheavies.

Jefffar wrote:
So I just eyeballed a stock Tau Broadside as a Light Walker with12/11/10 armour and 2 HP. It came in at 71 points with the Blacksun Filter (multi-teacker is redundant).

For 11 extra points the model gains the ability to move and shoot plus immunity to small arms. It also loses its armour save, which may not be a fair trade, especially against autocannon spam (though Lascannons would 1 shot Broadsides regularly).

I thought about going for a medium for the slightly higher AV, but upgrading from 2 wounds to 3 Hull Points seemed a bit much. Though, if the Seeker Missile option counts as a third weapon, it may be necessary.

Interesting thought exercise anyway. Crisis suits as a light walker might work out too, though the stats for HQ characters could get crazy.

Riptide etc would probably have to be heavy or superheavies.

I made a broadside at 10 av all the way around and 2 hull points, open topped. It equaled out to about the same points, and it made the broadside immune to str3, bit weaker against everything else. Also, one shot weapons don't count towards the maximum number of weapons equipped by a vehicle.
I can certainly add bs2,to the list for tau, yay drones!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Alcibiades wrote:
I think GW also factors physical size of the model into the cost. It's not all a matter of stats.

Actually, the issue is that they pile on special rules to make the bigger models more points. The gork/morkanaught is costed the way it is due to the amount of guns it is swinging around. If size dictated a point increase, then the godhammer pattern land raider wouldn't be overcosted if using bs4 for the twinlinked lascannons.

I like the initiative upgrade option for walkers. It allows for more variety, is a useful upgrade, and not game breaking.

So, I recreated the old Harlequin dreadnaught, using their current vehicles as a baseline to avoid breaking their theme.

WS5 BS4 STR5 AV 10-10-10 I6 A2 HP2 open topped walker
Holofield (5+ invuln unless immobilized)
Leaping grace, (ignore movement penalties for terrain, 12" movement)
hit and run
fleet
1x haywire blaster
2 x Cegorach's caress (STR+1 AP2 armorbane)

155 points
What do you think?

Offensively it's amazing. The fact that it's evidently made out glass balances that out. I like it.

I wanted that to be the case, it is kind of the Harlequin shtick. It is an elite slot too, so fits in their detachment. I have a flyer built statistically as well. It is basically a night wing interceptor, but trades the bright lances, shrouded, and agile for 2 of the new prism weapons, a 5+ invulnerable save and the one use 4+

It's priced at 5 points less than the interceptor.

Had family stuff to take care of, will post the next update wednesday morning.
Adjusted prices
Some new rules
Adding the Harlequin faction to the list
Adding more "build a weapon" examples, including the dreaded eldar pulsar

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
Had family stuff to take care of, will post the next update wednesday morning.
Adjusted prices
Some new rules
Adding the Harlequin faction to the list
Adding more "build a weapon" examples, including the dreaded eldar pulsar

That is perfectly fine. You are entitled to have a real life lol. I am looking forward to the update. Keep up the great work.

Ok, update is finally uploaded. Link in first post, as usual.

Sweet. I 'll print and read it over later tonight.