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Ok, my mistake

Got a tourney coming up and I'm deciding between these two lists:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/637973.page

I'd love to either get input on which list to take or minor tweak suggestions in that thread.

I like the first list a lot more, though there are 2 suggestions i would make.

The first is that i dont like 10 man assault squads. 5 is great, as you can load up on special weapons and deep strike with dante. 10 is clunky and they dont do anything that death company cant do better. The second is that if youre running astorath, load his squad up to 10 or 15 dudes.

Combat Patrol Tournament, TAC list, 500p:
Total: 501p

Sanguinary Priest (101p)
- Bike
- Bolt Pistol
- Valor's Edge

5 man Death Company (145p)
- Jump packs
- 2 power weapons
- No bolters, just BPs and chainswords, because WYSIWYG

5 man Scout Squad (55p)
- BPs and CCWs

5 man Scout Squad (55p)
- BPs and CCWs

5 man Bike Squad (145p)
- 2x grav
- Combi-grav

Comments, thoughts and questions:

There's two naked scout squads in there to unlock Red Thirst. I also hope they can make a marvelous mess of things with their ability to infiltrate/outflank. Also, a bunch of S5 attacks in CC at I5 could be fun.

BUT: Should I take a small Tac Squad instead?

Right now I have two power swords in the DC because WYSIWYG. Should I switch one for an axe? Should I shuffle some stuff around to get a PF?

Well,

I've got enough for my second list now and I ran it yesterday. Still have parts to get for two more lists, meaning I will have 4 in total. However my new list looks like this:

Commander Dante
Sanguinary Priest on Bike with Digi Weapons
Captain on Bike with Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield, also with digi weapons

10 man tactical squad with heavy flamer, flamer and combi-flamer on the sarg in a drop pod
5 scouts with sniper rifles and camo cloaks

9 Sanguinary Guard with a chapter banner, 6 swords and 3 axes
5 sternguard with combi-melta's in a drop pod

5 man bike squad with 2 grav guns and sarg with combi grav, also with an attack bike with multi-melta
5 man bike squad with 2 grav guns and sarg with combi grav, also with an attack bike with multi-melta
5 man assault squad with 2 melta guns and a sarg with a combi-melta in a drop pod

So basically Dante goes with the Sanguinary Guard. The priest and the captain go with one of the bike squads. Fairly standard, although I do admit it feels weird making a list with no Death Company in it.

What do you guys think of this list?

Blood Angels Baal Strikeforce (2000pts)

Blood Angels: Codex (2014) (Baal Strike Force) (2000pts)

HQ (96pts)

Sanguinary Priest (96pts)
Additional Weapon (1pts), Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Jump pack (15pts)
Valour's Edge (20pts)
Melee weapon

Elites (639pts)

Death Company Squad (264pts)
6x Bolt Pistol, 6x Chainsword, 8x Death Company Marine (160pts), Jump Pack (24pts), Power Fist (25pts), Power Fist (25pts), Power Weapon (15pts), Power Weapon (15pts)

Furioso Dreadnought (165pts)
Magna-grapple
Drop Pod (35pts)
Storm Bolter
Power Fists (5pts)
Frag cannon (5pts), Heavy flamer

Sanguinary Guard Squad (210pts)
4x Angelus Boltgun, Chapter Banner (25pts), 4x Encarmine Sword, Inferno Pistol (10pts), Power Fist (10pts), 5x Sanguinary Guard (165pts)

Troops (360pts)

Tactical Squad (180pts)
Plasma gun (15pts), 4x Tactical Marine (56pts)
Razorback (85pts)
Lascannon & Twin Linked Plasma Gun (20pts)
Tactical Sergeant (24pts)
Bolt Pistol, Combi-Plasma (10pts)

Tactical Squad (180pts)
Plasma gun (15pts), 4x Tactical Marine (56pts)
Razorback (85pts)
Lascannon & Twin Linked Plasma Gun (20pts)
Tactical Sergeant (24pts)
Bolt Pistol, Combi-Plasma (10pts)

Fast Attack (230pts)

Assault Squad (115pts)
4x Assault Marines (68pts), 2x Meltagun (20pts)
Assault Sergeant (27pts)
Chainsword, Combi-Melta (10pts)
Drop Pod
Storm Bolter

Assault Squad (115pts)
4x Assault Marines (68pts), 2x Meltagun (20pts)
Assault Sergeant (27pts)
Chainsword, Combi-Melta (10pts)
Drop Pod
Storm Bolter

Heavy Support (455pts)

Predator (125pts)
Autocannon, Lascannon (40pts), Overcharged engines (10pts)

Predator (125pts)
Autocannon, Lascannon (40pts), Overcharged engines (10pts)

Stormraven Gunship (205pts)
Extra Armour (5pts), Twin Linked Assault Cannon, Twin-linked Multi-melta

Lords of War (220pts)

Commander Dante, Chapter Master of the Blood Angels (220pts)

Created with BattleScribe

Is this a decent list and what would you improve?
Apologies for the way its laid out, as this is my first time using battlescribe properly.

 th3maninblak wrote:
I like the first list a lot more, though there are 2 suggestions i would make.

The first is that i dont like 10 man assault squads. 5 is great, as you can load up on special weapons and deep strike with dante. 10 is clunky and they dont do anything that death company cant do better. The second is that if youre running astorath, load his squad up to 10 or 15 dudes.

Heh. My issue there is a lack of DC models. I started BA in their 5e book, so I only ever bothered to get one squad of 15 on foot to ride in a crusader with a reclusiarch. I've put their packs on and gotten a FEW more since then, but not many, and I probably won't have time to doll up any more of them before this tourney.

Thinking about just painting black over some asm, but I've always wanted to be able to run that one apoc formation that requires 100 jump pack asm, and I'm only like 20 pistol/sword dudes away.

So while the spirit is willing to make that change, the clock is not. :(

Is the cost of the Sanguine Wing worth it for the free wargear as an ally force? Still looking for an ally for my IG, and I like the idea of free combi weapons and power weapons.

This thread is a good read for me. I have not played since early 6th really and just saw that my BA got a new book. I worked my converted jump pack army models into a list and was looking for some feedback. I was noticing that you can't play a pure jump pack army anymore? Sad to see that if true but the point costs of my other units have gone down. Would my old models make a competitive list at all?

1750

HQ:
-2xSanguinary Priests (220 pts)
-Jump Pack, Power Sword, Infernus, Auspex

ELITE:
-10 Sanguinary Guard (390 pts)
-2 Power Fist/Angelus, 4 Glaives/Infernus, 4 Glaives/Angelus
-10 Vanguard Veterans (435 pts)
-2 Dual Claws, 2 Fist/BP, 2 Chain/BP, Paxe/BP, Paxe/PP, Psword/PP, Claw/BP

TROOPS:
-5 Tactical Marines (95 pts)
-4 Bolters, Missle Launcher with Flakk
-5 Tactical Marines (95 pts)
-4 Bolters, Missle Launcher with Flakk
-5 Scouts (55 pts)
-BP/CCW

FAST ATTACK:
-2x10 Assault Marines (460 pts)
-Veteran Sarge with Fist and Infernus, 2 Meltaguns

If you are referring to "must have 1 more selections of Relics and Detchment-rules" that just means you have to pick a detachment so it knows which codex its pulling in its relics from, you dont have to take one.

That's good to know. I was pretty confused for a moment there as I've been using the Strike Force detachment rules without taking a relic either. Being new to BA, I thought this was a little inclear when I first picked up the codex.

Instinct, that list is the best you have posted so far. I love it.

Thanks man. I got impatient of waiting for feedback on the thread I posted haha. Glad you like it, good to know I'm getting somewhere
Anything you would recommend changing?
Im nearly certain on this list now, and have started figuring out tactics.

 BladeWalker wrote:
This thread is a good read for me. I have not played since early 6th really and just saw that my BA got a new book. I worked my converted jump pack army models into a list and was looking for some feedback. I was noticing that you can't play a pure jump pack army anymore? Sad to see that if true but the point costs of my other units have gone down. Would my old models make a competitive list at all?

1750

HQ:
-2xSanguinary Priests (220 pts)
-Jump Pack, Power Sword, Infernus, Auspex

ELITE:
-10 Sanguinary Guard (390 pts)
-2 Power Fist/Angelus, 4 Glaives/Infernus, 4 Glaives/Angelus
-10 Vanguard Veterans (435 pts)
-2 Dual Claws, 2 Fist/BP, 2 Chain/BP, Paxe/BP, Paxe/PP, Psword/PP, Claw/BP

TROOPS:
-5 Tactical Marines (95 pts)
-4 Bolters, Missle Launcher with Flakk
-5 Tactical Marines (95 pts)
-4 Bolters, Missle Launcher with Flakk
-5 Scouts (55 pts)
-BP/CCW

FAST ATTACK:
-2x10 Assault Marines (460 pts)
-Veteran Sarge with Fist and Infernus, 2 Meltaguns

I don't personally like Infernus pistols. Dropping them would save you 120 points, which is a lot.
I think that your list is overall pretty good. The weak link might be Vanguard Veterans. Death Company is so much better for only one point more per model. It won't make that much difference since they'll have FnP anyway.
Also, their loadout is pretty ineffective for the cost. With ten models my choice would be six models with Chainsword/BP, two with either Power Sword or Lightning Claw and BP and two with PF.
After dropping the wargear you could afford Dante, who would be a great addition to your list as your list is full of jumpers.

 ultimentra wrote:
Is the cost of the Sanguine Wing worth it for the free wargear as an ally force? Still looking for an ally for my IG, and I like the idea of free combi weapons and power weapons.

I run the Sanguine Wing. So far, they've proved very effective in the games I played. I kit the VV with 2 power axes and 8 lightning claws and each is equipped with a Storm Shield. If I saved the points on the weapons, I spent it on defense.

The first two rounds are the setup. Round 3, the steamroller gets going. Round 4, they've been unstoppable.

The look on your opponents face when they don't get penalized for disordered charge is priceless.
The last game I played, I backed them with 4 Sister squads in Immolators. 3 of them never fired a shot because the Sanguine Wing was wrecking the backfield.

 Walnuts wrote:
You've got to be really careful using any kind of infantry characters to charge knights, tbh. It's super risky. Keep in mind any knight has a 33% per turn combat phase of just stomping a blast template out of existence, and someone like Gabe Seth, even though he strikes first, assuming he gets the charge (which would basically mean he jumped out of a storm raven or a land raider), will only do two hull points worth of damage on average, then it's time for all those stomp attacks to happen at the same time your power fists hit.

I've gotten dante stomped out, meph stomped out, corbulo stomped out, a generic sanguinary priest stomped out, and I've stomped out a wraithlord and a farseer.

It suuuuucks when it happens man.

I 100% sign off on using dual tri-las predators and a legacy of mars sicaran to chew through knights, and also, shoot, you're a blood angel, you should have no problem putting melta shots right into their back armor via deep strike.

Destroy those knights from a distance, soldier!

I concur with this sentiment entirely. I recently played a (mostly) good, strategic early game against a bit of a pud, but I foolishly tried rushing his Knight and the game was basically lost on it. Lesson learned for the inevitable rematch.

I also concur with the comment that DC is better than VV in most circumstances.

I've considered foot VV assaulting multiple units out of a crusader.

Had a 3000pt game the other day against my mates imperial guard - he tabled me turn 6.

Even though our victory points were close (he was 1 infront when tabling me 12 - 13) he absolutely flogged me points wise.

He ran a list an array of infantry (including like 50 conscripts) with heavy weapons everywhere. Transports for several squads.

A couple of sentinels and like 4 leman russ battle tanks, 1 demolisheer, and 2 vanquishers.

I ran:
Priest on Bike with Relic Power Weapon.
He joined a full strength bike squad (2 grav guns and a MM on the attack bike).

Priest With Relic Jump Pack
Dante
6x Vanguard Vets (fist, 4 power weapons, 1 chainsword).
These guys all ran together

Libby in terminator armour
5x Assault Terminators (3x TH + Shield, 2x twin LC).
Brother Corbulo
These guys all ran together in a Land raider crusader

DC Dreadnought (Cassor the Damned or what ever the troop option is called).
10x DC (1 FIst, 1 Hammer, 1 PW, rest chainswords) No Jump Packs
These guys all ran in a storm raven with Lascannons, Heavy Bolters, Hurricane Bolters.

5x Sternguard (2x combi-meltas).

5 Scouts with sniper rifles and camo cloaks

5x Tactical marines w/ plasma cannon

5x Tactical marines with Heavy Flamer
These guys were in a Las-Razorback.

1 Tri-las Pred

1 Vindicator

Starting on the board were the bikes, the scouts, the 2 tactical squads, the Crusader w/ Termies, the sternguard and the 2 tanks...
He stole the initiative so got first turn and absolutely reemed me. my Razorback, predator and vindicator all died turn 1.
Bikes got hammered by the Leman russ demolisher and died in the first couple of turns too.
Scouts were useless.
The Terminators are probably the only unit that did any good - Last unit to die and managed to take out 2 tanks and a squd of Ogryns (oh yeah he had Ogryns in a flying transport).

When I deepstriked in my dante squad to the back corner of his deployment I had 2 brain fades - first I forgot to run them so they got shot at in a nice clumped up bunch by the demolisher - lost like half of them.
Next turn I FORGOT TO FREAKING CHARGE and left them open to shooting from an infantry squad or 3 - Had I remembered to charge them that turn it might have been a different outcome TBH.. Would have locked up one of his squads (the one on his quad-gun behind his aegis) which means he wouldnt have nearly killed my storm raven (got crew stunned so it had to fly 18", had to do the deepstriking deployment thing with both my DC and DC Dread which was less than ideal).

Anyway, this list did not work one bit against a big gun line from the guard - would MSU spam be a better option? I dont want ot take all infantry since his battle cannons will make short work of them. I also dont want to take heavy armour since he seems to destroy that anyway.....

I think mephiston is a fantastic answer to knights. With the psychic powers i get, he usually averages 8 str10 attacks while charging that reroll to hit, which averages 5-6 hits and around 3 to 4 hull points. Assuming youve taken even 2 hull points off, he can reliably ace the knight before it gets to swing OR stomp

@sm3g:

Don't put units in Stormravens.

Don't use LRs.

Don't use assault terminators, even though they did a bit of good.

Don't put anything in reserve you don't have to. Deep striking is the devil.

Do: put a LOT more shooting in your list.

Do: use more drop pod melta units and drop pod furiosos w/frag cannon. (Don't use DC dreads; they stink)

Martel732 wrote:
@sm3g:

Don't put units in Stormravens.

Don't use LRs.

Don't use assault terminators, even though they did a bit of good.

Don't put anything in reserve you don't have to. Deep striking is the devil.

Do: put a LOT more shooting in your list.

Do: use more drop pod melta units and drop pod furiosos w/frag cannon. (Don't use DC dreads; they stink)

Ill take this on board!

I need drop pods by the looks of it!
What sort of shooting do you mean? Got a squad of missile launcher devs I could include. Also got a Baal Predator kitted with heavy bolters and assault cannon...

So I would be better off foot slogging everything up and hope things like dante don't get shot to pieces?

sm3g wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
@sm3g:

Don't put units in Stormravens.

Don't use LRs.

Don't use assault terminators, even though they did a bit of good.

Don't put anything in reserve you don't have to. Deep striking is the devil.

Do: put a LOT more shooting in your list.

Do: use more drop pod melta units and drop pod furiosos w/frag cannon. (Don't use DC dreads; they stink)

Ill take this on board!

I need drop pods by the looks of it!
What sort of shooting do you mean? Got a squad of missile launcher devs I could include. Also got a Baal Predator kitted with heavy bolters and assault cannon...

So I would be better off foot slogging everything up and hope things like dante don't get shot to pieces?

No, don't foot slog. Use drop pods, fast transports, and jump packs. In my BA lists, nothing moves slower than 12". A 45 pt Rhino can move you 24" and can protect you from potentially 3 demolisher shots.

Martel732 wrote:

sm3g wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
@sm3g:

Don't put units in Stormravens.

Don't use LRs.

Don't use assault terminators, even though they did a bit of good.

Don't put anything in reserve you don't have to. Deep striking is the devil.

Do: put a LOT more shooting in your list.

Do: use more drop pod melta units and drop pod furiosos w/frag cannon. (Don't use DC dreads; they stink)

Ill take this on board!

I need drop pods by the looks of it!
What sort of shooting do you mean? Got a squad of missile launcher devs I could include. Also got a Baal Predator kitted with heavy bolters and assault cannon...

So I would be better off foot slogging everything up and hope things like dante don't get shot to pieces?

No, don't foot slog. Use drop pods, fast transports, and jump packs. In my BA lists, nothing moves slower than 12". A 45 pt Rhino can move you 24" and can protect you from potentially 3 demolisher shots.

Ahh by foot slogging I meant including jump packs. Since I built most of my army last codex nearly everything has a jump pack anyway (except for my one painted tactical squad and 1 scout squad)..

I currently don't own any drop pods but I might look at buying some at some point, shame all my assault marines are built in 10 man squads with jump packs and a fist on the sarge

6/7 th editions have presented us with a dilemma. Razors and rhinos aren't assault transports, so we can't assault out of them no matter what.

BA want to assault. Really, really want to assault. As in +1 S +1 init (maybe) want to assault. Assault elements need to be on bikes or have jump packs. This makes them vulnerable to things like the demolisher.

Martel732 wrote:
6/7 th editions have presented us with a dilemma. Razors and rhinos aren't assault transports, so we can't assault out of them no matter what.

BA want to assault. Really, really want to assault. As in +1 S +1 init (maybe) want to assault. Assault elements need to be on bikes or have jump packs. This makes them vulnerable to things like the demolisher.

Yeah as far as im concerned rhinos/razors are reserved for tactical marines only, and in larger games I like to give them ObSec by taking a second CAD.

Bikes at least have jink to protect them somewhat from a demolisher (and jink + FNP for battle cannons). Although I am still wondering if I am better off just using white scars allies for this TBH.

Its the jump packs jumping up the table that is the biggest issue I think, so fragile.

The jump pack problem can be solved in a few ways, at least in my opinion.

1. Stay spaced out. Losing 2-4 models from a large blast is a lot better than losing the whole squad. Pay attention to your spacing, and stay exactly at the maximum 2 inch unit coherency whenever possible.

2. Have a character to tank wounds. Dante is a fantastic choice for this, as is a shield eternal master. They tank wounds from battle cannons all day, and can even eat a few demolisher rounds.

3. Stay in cover. Dangerous terrain is not anywhere near as scary as it was in 5th, and with the added mobility of a jump pack, jumping from one source of cover to the next is no problem. This also includes using line of sight blocking terrain to your advantage.

4. Take only the most efficient units. Death company are not so expensive that losing them is a huge deal, and assault marine squads should usually only be around 5 strong. Sanguinary guard are a bit more durable, and usually have a character to tank wounds, so this doesnt apply to them as much.

Martel732 wrote:
@sm3g:

Don't put units in Stormravens.

Use a Caestus Assault Ram instead

Don't use LRs.

Use a Caestus Assault Ram instead

Don't use assault terminators, even though they did a bit of good.

Use them but put them into a Caestus Assault Ram Instead

Don't put anything in reserve you don't have to. Deep striking is the devil.

Excpet the Caestus Assault Ram. That will go in reserve

Do: put a LOT more shooting in your list.

Like a Caestus Assault Ram

Do: use more drop pod melta units and drop pod furiosos w/frag cannon. (Don't use DC dreads; they stink)

Not relevant to a Caestus Assault Ram so I don't know.

Overall I agree with some of this but I like the DC Dreadnought. If you can delver it into combat via a Stormraven then it's awesome. Remember it gets 6 attacks on the charge. I like my Assault Termies too even if everybody else thinks they're rubbish I don't care.

I was thinking of using the new BA rules to run Black Templars, because it gives a nice choppy army. I know I lose Crusader squads, but this seemed more effective. I'd be playing Gabriel Seth as an Emperor's Champion, throwing him, a Corbulo stand-in and 14 DC into an LRC. Other than that, I'm not sure what to throw in. The list doesn't nee. To be super competitive, just fun while not throwing the game by playing.

+ HQ (120pts) +

Brother Corbulo, Keeper of the Red Grail (120pts) [Bolt Pistol, Frag and Krak grenades, Heaven's Teeth, Narthecium, The Red Grail, Warlord Trait: Speed of the Primarch]

+ Elites (985pts) +

Death Company Squad (400pts) [14x Bolt Pistol, 8x Chainsword, 14x Death Company Marine, Frag and Krak grenades, 4x Power Weapon, 2x Thunder Hammer]

Sternguard Veteran Squad (195pts) [4x Combi-Melta, Frag and Krak grenades, Special Issue Ammunition, 4x Sternguard Veteran]
Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]
Veteran Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Combi-Melta]

Sternguard Veteran Squad (195pts) [4x Combi-Melta, Frag and Krak grenades, Special Issue Ammunition, 4x Sternguard Veteran]
Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]
Veteran Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Combi-Melta]

Sternguard Veteran Squad (195pts) [4x Combi-Melta, Frag and Krak grenades, Special Issue Ammunition, 4x Sternguard Veteran]
Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]
Veteran Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Combi-Melta]

+ Troops (330pts) +

Tactical Squad (165pts) [Frag and Krak grenades, Heavy flamer, 4x Tactical Marine]
Razorback [Overcharged engines, Searchlight, Smoke launchers, Twin Linked Lascannon]
Tactical Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Chainsword]

Tactical Squad (165pts) [Frag and Krak grenades, Heavy flamer, 4x Tactical Marine]
Razorback [Overcharged engines, Searchlight, Smoke launchers, Twin Linked Lascannon]
Tactical Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Chainsword]

+ Heavy Support (260pts) +

Land Raider Crusader (260pts) [Frag assault launchers, 2x Hurricane bolters, Pintle Multi-melta, Searchlight, Smoke launcher, Twin-linked assault cannon]

+ Lords of War (155pts) +

Gabriel Seth, Chapter Master of the Flesh Tearers (155pts) [Blood Reaver, Bolt Pistol, Frag and Krak grenades, Iron Halo, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Red Rampage

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Considering Assault Squads with double Melta and Combi-melta or Inferno Pistol many people take Pods instead of Jump Packs. If you are taking Dante in your list with Descent of Angels, why go with the Pod? Is it just another thing on the table that the opponent has to kill? I guess the Pod can't mishap easily, so there's that.

rollawaythestone wrote:
Considering Assault Squads with double Melta and Combi-melta or Inferno Pistol many people take Pods instead of Jump Packs. If you are taking Dante in your list with Descent of Angels, why go with the Pod? Is it just another thing on the table that the opponent has to kill? I guess the Pod can't mishap easily, so there's that.

Short answer? In my experience, you don't. Leave the packs on, come in very reliably on turn 2 with a higher degree of accuracy than with a drop pod. My list for the league had 2 tri melta assault marine squads and a command squad with jump packs and 3 melta guns. Needless to say, my opponents never got to fire their knights more than once per game.

 th3maninblak wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:
Considering Assault Squads with double Melta and Combi-melta or Inferno Pistol many people take Pods instead of Jump Packs. If you are taking Dante in your list with Descent of Angels, why go with the Pod? Is it just another thing on the table that the opponent has to kill? I guess the Pod can't mishap easily, so there's that.

Short answer? In my experience, you don't. Leave the packs on, come in very reliably on turn 2 with a higher degree of accuracy than with a drop pod. My list for the league had 2 tri melta assault marine squads and a command squad with jump packs and 3 melta guns. Needless to say, my opponents never got to fire their knights more than once per game.

Someone forgot to bubblewrap.