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Ive been following this thread for a bit now and wanted to get some input on these TAC 2000 pt lists all of which are the baal strike force detachments:

List one - This one has more numbers and flame power and has a good alpha strike with the assault squad and dread pods i think.

Sanguinary Priest
-Valors Edge
-Jump Pack

Sanguinary Guard - 5
2 Inferno Pistols
1 Powerfist

Death Company w jump packs - 9
1 Powerfist
1 powersword

Furioso Dread
magna grapple
melta
droppod

Furioso Dread
magna grapple
melta
droppod

Tac Squad - 10
H Flamer
Flamer
Rhino
Sgt has powersword, hand flamer and vet

Tac Squad - 10
H Flamer
Flamer
Rhino
Sgt has powersword, hand flamer and vet

Assault Squad - 5
2 Melta guns
1 Combimelta
droppod

Assault Squad - 5
2 Melta guns
1 Combimelta
droppod

Stormraven
multimetla
assault cannon
Stormraven
multimetla
assault cannon


List two - This one has more shootyness and has a good alpha strike with the assault squad and dread pods i think.

Sanguinary Priest
-Valors Edge
-Jump Pack

Sanguinary Guard - 5
2 Inferno Pistols
1 Powerfist

Death Company w jump packs - 9
1 Powerfist
1 powersword

Furioso Dread
magna grapple
melta
droppod

Furioso Dread
magna grapple
melta
droppod

Tac Squad - 5
H Flamer
Razorback w Las/tl plas

Tac Squad - 5
H Flamer
Razorback w Las/tl plas

Assault Squad - 5
2 Melta guns
1 Combimelta
droppod

Assault Squad - 5
2 Melta guns
1 Combimelta
droppod

Baal pred
bolter sponsons
tl assault cannon
storm bolter

Stormraven
multimetla
assault cannon

Stormraven
multimetla
assault cannon


List three - This one some shootyness and has a sang guard star and one less dread for the alpha strike and two less DC models. the librarian is there to buff dante and guard

Commander Dante

Librarian lvl 2
gailens staff
angels wing

Sanguinary Priest
-Valors Edge
-Jump Pack

Sanguinary Guard - 5
2 Inferno Pistols
1 Powerfist

Death Company w jump packs - 7
1 Powerfist
1 powersword

Furioso Dread
magna grapple
melta
droppod

Tac Squad - 5
H Flamer
Razorback w Las/tl plas

Tac Squad - 5
H Flamer
Razorback w Las/tl plas

Assault Squad - 5
2 Melta guns
1 Combimelta
droppod

Assault Squad - 5
2 Melta guns
1 Combimelta
droppod

Stormraven
multimetla
assault cannon

Stormraven
multimetla
assault cannon


preference, modifications? all greatly appreciated!!!

All look good imo.
I would be careful with the lone baal predator, as it will be picked off, perhaps change it for a las pred. And definetly remember to pay the 1poit for the bolt pistol

Has anyone toyed around with many of the forgeworld options available to BA? Anything that stands out as a good contender to include in a list?

I really like the look of the Sicaran Battle Tank but not sure if its worth it over a predator...

sm3g wrote:
Has anyone toyed around with many of the forgeworld options available to BA? Anything that stands out as a good contender to include in a list?

I really like the look of the Sicaran Battle Tank but not sure if its worth it over a predator...

At some point I will need to get a Sicaran to be honest. They look really good. For a tank with 6 twin linked shots that ignores jink it's the perfect answer to things like Wave Serpents. Not sure when I'll get one though.

Remember you can only get one "Relic of the Armory". The Reclusiarch was the only model with Master of Relics in the BA codex, and they nixed him

I mainly play against a wave serpent/Wraith knight list. The serpents make it nearly impossible to win the objective game. I am going with flesh tearers formation to get 6 fast attack slots and is nice to only need 1 troop with that. I'm using 3 slots for drop pods and 2 got assault squad melta teams in pods. I'm allying with astra militarum and taking 1 command squad with 4meltas, and 2 veteran squads with 3 meltas and a demo charge each. These might work because the command squad can give orders to ignore cover to his squad and a vet squad.
Turn 1 I'll hopefully be able to drop 2 of those astra militarum pods near 2/4 serpents and blow them up (both if I'm lucky) with melta ignoring jink. The serpent shield can't prevent me from glancing then down with all that melta.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think that's a nice list for ba because only us and wolves can use drop pods for fast attack and then give them to our ally. Astra militarum in pods is dope


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What kind of guns are on sicarians? Anyone make your own out if a land raider or battle tank?

They're 6 shot autocannons that ignore junk with rending.

I have a sicaran and I would just like to say that they are AMAZING!

I take mine with Schism of mars, lascannons and ceremite.
This gives me 6 tl st7 shots with rending, ignores jink and tank hunter. It also gives me 2 tank hunting lascannons.
It also has immunity to melta and a 4+ against haywire.

I've also proxied a Typhon seige tank which is BRUTAL! For 370 pts with ceremite you have a 14 all rounder superheavy with 6hp, immunity to melta, a 7" ignores cover st10 ap1 primary weapon blast and +1 on the thunderblitz table which is MASSIVE!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another proxy I have used is the javelin.
For 95pts you get 4 st8 shots and a MM shot on top of that when it deepstrikes. That has slaughtered tanks on the turn it has arrived both times I have proxied it.

 TranSpyre wrote:
Remember you can only get one "Relic of the Armory". The Reclusiarch was the only model with Master of Relics in the BA codex, and they nixed him

Forgeworld addressed this:

Forgeworld's Response
We have looked at this situation and our house rule to cover it is that a Blood Angels force would need to include a Chaplain as Keeper of the Relics in order to use more than one Relic vehicle.

That makes me happy.

I like the sound of two stormravens and a sicaran as my heavies

Played a tournament this past weekend using the Mortalis formation, running 3 groups of 10 for the DC squads. Out of the 3 games played, the extra attack for being outnumbered never game into play. The crusader rule however, was very useful for moving 12 and getting good runs into cover going up the board. I'm thinking either go smaller squads to begin with (built bigger thinking I'd take casualties) or just use the Baal Strike Force detachment.

On another note, how does the idea of running multiple jump DC squads, with Corbulo in a transport (like a Land Raider) to give the bubble WS and I.

I pulled off a lucky 5-1 record at a 2 day tourney this past weekend with this list:
Baal strike force
Mephiston and sanguinary priest with valour's edge/bp
2x 10 man CCW/bp scouts
5 man jump pack death co with 4 joes and 1 fist
2x 5 man asm squads with 2 melta/2 inferno in pods
2 land raider redeemers

CAD
Corbulo and a warlord chaplain
2x 5 man tactical with heavy flamer/2 hand flamer in pods

The scouts ride in redeemers as relatively cheap combat deathstars, one squad joined by Mephy and the valour's edge priest, while the other has corby and the chaplain. Mephy goes for full divination so that both scout squads will get rerolls to hit (the other squad having hatred.)
2 quad melta pods and 2 triple flamer squads was actually very reliable suicide squadding for a cheap price, and the two tacticals + pods being obsec was almost always handy for scoring a quick maelstrom point and denying one of theirs.

A lot of people were shocked to see the list, and even more shocked that I was at the top tables with it, when draigostar, eldar serpents with tau tank hunter formation, and flyrants were all over the place.

Granted it's not a top tier list, and I had to get very lucky with matchups, mission types, and game ending timing several times, but I think as far as pure BA go, this is pretty good.

Some more specific details on how they did in this thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/640326.page

Looks like a good list, but the land raiders are an unusual choice imo, maybe stormravens would fit better?
Well done, great result

Any opinions on Librarian Dreads?
Got one from a friend and I'm not sure if I'll have any use for it...

niv-mizzet wrote:I pulled off a lucky 5-1 record at a 2 day tourney this past weekend with this list:
Baal strike force
Mephiston and sanguinary priest with valour's edge/bp
2x 10 man CCW/bp scouts
5 man jump pack death co with 4 joes and 1 fist
2x 5 man asm squads with 2 melta/2 inferno in pods
2 land raider redeemers

CAD
Corbulo and a warlord chaplain
2x 5 man tactical with heavy flamer/2 hand flamer in pods

The scouts ride in redeemers as relatively cheap combat deathstars, one squad joined by Mephy and the valour's edge priest, while the other has corby and the chaplain. Mephy goes for full divination so that both scout squads will get rerolls to hit (the other squad having hatred.)
2 quad melta pods and 2 triple flamer squads was actually very reliable suicide squadding for a cheap price, and the two tacticals + pods being obsec was almost always handy for scoring a quick maelstrom point and denying one of theirs.

A lot of people were shocked to see the list, and even more shocked that I was at the top tables with it, when draigostar, eldar serpents with tau tank hunter formation, and flyrants were all over the place.

Granted it's not a top tier list, and I had to get very lucky with matchups, mission types, and game ending timing several times, but I think as far as pure BA go, this is pretty good.

Some more specific details on how they did in this thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/640326.page

I like it!
I still need to get a mephi for my army. But I am a fan of Corbs in 7th (just gotta find a useful squad to put him with).

I have also played with tac squads in a CAB instead of Baal Strike Force for the ObSec + transports with ObSec - I find it quite useful (and tac squads wont be benefitting too much from +1I gained from the Baal Strike Force Anyway).

Agree with above post though, I would probably try ravens over Redeemers

soomemafia wrote:Any opinions on Librarian Dreads?
Got one from a friend and I'm not sure if I'll have any use for it...

I second this, I have one sitting on the shelf, might hit the painting table if I find a use for it (pricey for Master L2 compared to a regular libby though).

Maybe as an HQ in a full armoured list? (I have contemplated running a list of 6 dreads).

Use lib dreads twice now, first game podded slightly back from 2 dc dreads near a guard castle lining update round 2 assault. Annoyingly the guard player used 6 ignore cover lc on him and 4 hit, as you can expect he went pop.

Second game similar tactic but vs sw, podded behind his twc but in cover from his nearby longfangs to give him a tricky choice. Forward and fight the oncoming dc swarm or back to help out. He went back and failed a charge. I then cast the quickening on the lib dread and charge him and 1 dc dreads in. Lib went at i7 (+2 from quickening +1 bsf) and challenged, his wolf lord exepts and gets instant killed by 3 s10 that make it onto him as he fails 2 inv save. Dc dreads killed a couple of wolves but then he died. Lib dread made it out with 1 hull point after his ironpriests messed up and only glanced. The others dc dreads nailed the longfangs

All in all he's fun with the quickening to boost his attacks and ini but not overly comp. Plan on using him again tonight to try and pod near cassor the dammed and cast it on him for extra lols
Ba have other much better and more cost effective hq's

Yeah not a fan of Libby dreads in terms of effectiveness. They're just pointed too high for what they can do...

Cool unit though, I plan to paint up a couple just for fun, but would only run in them in fun/themed lists.

D

InsTincT_OP wrote:
Looks like a good list, but the land raiders are an unusual choice imo, maybe stormravens would fit better?
Well done, great result

Ravens do seem like they'd typically be better, and it would give an extra 100 points to play with, but just going off the matchups I had:

Round 1 may have turned out a bit better with some air power coming in instead of just having the redeemers blown, although I did win, maybe it could have brought the win up further?

Round 2 he had a couple traktor gun units that were useless since I had no flyers. Might've worked against me here.

Round 3 he had a couple night scythes, and I abused av14 to hide in for a few turns before he managed to gauss it down, saving the squad from taking more serious punishment, so the redeemer they hid in was a star player here.

Round 4 was N/A

Round 5 had a lot of interceptor and skyfire, as well as massive wave serpent snap shot barrages he could've thrown. He only really go the redeemers down because of a lucky 6 on a pen from nova charged ion accelerator (first shot too, and I failed the 4+ cover!). I feel like ravens here would've made my situation even worse.

Round 6 he had 4 flyers, including 1 raven of his own. Again I feel like just staying out of the air was probably to my benefit here.

Granted with that 100 points I could've either carried a basic dread in a raven, or put veritas vitae on the chap (which I wanted to do in the first place but just couldn't spare 15 points without ruining some unit's function) and pumped 85 more points into the DC, bringing them to 8 man 1 sword 1 fist.

I'm really not a big fan of having full t4 squads with IC's with very few invulns being in plane crashes.

I've been toying around with a BA/GK list for an upcoming tournament (2,000pt broadside bash), and have to say this thread is super useful! One of the things I find quite interesting about BA is that they seem to have a few cheap(ish) high threat units such as DC and SG, that can be buffed up, resulting in threat saturation. Now, the obvious downside is that most of these threats are melee units in a shooting-dominate edition, which is partially why I like the GK pairing.

The general idea of the list is to pod the Furioso, deep strike the TAGK and shunt both dreadknights up the board alongside the DC and SG squads Turn 1. The GK libby rolls divination for perfect timing / forewarning Prescience, to make the Devastator squad pretty mean. The end result is 4x short-range threats, 2x medium threats, and 1x long range threat. They can choose to focus on the dreadknights / furioso but that means turn 2 the DC and SG will be within charge range. The tac quad is there to add additional close-up firepower where it's needed.

Baal Strike Force - 1,206 pts
HQ
Librarian
-- Jump Pack; ML2
** Rolls on Divination and joins SG squad

Sanguinary Priest
-- Jump Pack, Valour's Edge, Bolt Pistol
** Joins SG squad

Elites
Death Company x5
-- 5x Bolt Pistols; 4x Chainswords; 1x Thunder Hammer; 5x Jump Packs

Furioso Dreadnought
-- Magna-grapple; Drop Pod; Frag Cannon; Melta Gun

Sanguinary Guard Squad x5
-- 5x Boltguns; Chapter Banner; 3x Swords; Axe; Power Fist

Troops
Scout Squad x10
-- 9x Boltguns; Combi-Melta

Tactical Squad x10
-- Drop Pod; Combi-Melta; Meltagun; Heavy Flamer

Heavy Support
Devastator Squad x5
-- 4x Lascannons

Nemesis Strike Force - 811 Pts
HQ
Librarian
-- Cuirass of Sacrifice; ML3; Warlord
** Rolls on Divination and joins the Devastator Squad

Troops
Terminators x5
-- Psycannon; Daemon hammer; 4x falchions

Heavy Support
Nemesis Dreadknight
-- Heavy Incinerator; Heavy Psycannon; Greatsword; Personal teleporter

Nemesis Dreadknight
-- Heavy Incinerator; Heavy Psycannon; Greatsword; Personal teleporter

Total 1,997 pts

Should give your Death Company that have hammers or fists bolters IMO - you don't get the extra attack from the BP (specialist weapon) plus they can shoot a bolter and still charge

Played a friendly game tonight, so may not be useful in a competitive thread, but I'll regale my experiences none the less.

Mission was the first Maelstrom one, where you always have 3 cards. 1500 pts each, vs Marines (Ultra). He was running a nice balanced mechanised TAC list, true to the codex including 3 tac squads, HB devs, dread with TL HB, Tri-Las dread, Dakka pred, cpatin with tooled up command squad.

I was running BSF and the arc Angels detachment, as follows:

BSF
Chappy, JP
Methiston

DC, 8, 6 BP/CCW, PF+bolter, power sword + BP, jump packs

5 Tac marines, flamer, 3 bolters, sgt with bolter
5 Tac marines, melta, 3 bolters, sgt with bolter, rhino

2x MM attack bikes

ArcAngels
Libby, TDA, SS, Veritas Vitea (warlord)
5 Tac terminators, Assault cannon, chainfist
9 Sternguard, 3 x combi plas, rhino (Meth joins)

As you can see from my list, we weren't playing super cut throat competitive game.

My warlord traits made it night fighting T1 and my army had night fighting. Not that I had alot of long range shooting to capitalise on this, and also had the -1 modifier to my opponents reserve rolls, and he had no reserves...

My opponent lacked the fire lanes and los to shoot me T1. I flat outed/ran to get 3 units to score d3 vp for having 3 units within 12" of my opponents deployment zone.

Turn 2. My opponent committed a large amount of his force to take care of a rhino and the melts tac squad I send his way. Failed to wreck the rhino with shooting and then proceeded to fail charging his dreadnought through difficult terrain, anything other than double one would probably have gotten him in and he rolled doubled one.

Turn two my termies and warlord deepstrike mishapped and were destroyed putting me down by 350 points. Which was deeply unpleasant. The only reason I was running them was because I'd recently finished painting them and wanted to give them some love...See how they repay me!

Aside from that, my DC charges a tac squad and killed all but two, who managed to successfully run away but not off the table. My attack bikes and Sternguard flatouted again to outflank (not the rule) the forces committed to the far side of the board. My Melta tac squad whiffed shooting at the tri-Las pred and then I forgot to charge it.

His turn three he killed a rhino and charged my Melta squad with his dread, they ended up being tied in combat for a few turns and the remnants of my tac squad took two HP off it during that. His now two man tac squad went started to harass my DC but didn't charge them, forcing me to deal with them in my next turn...i'd managed to position my bikes and sternguard out of sight, so they remained safe.

In my turn I moved my attack bikes into a ruin hanging them back and pushed forward with the sterngaurd rhino, flat putting that into a central position and in the open of his firing lines hoping to draw his forces around them. Nothing else of note exper my flamer tacs tactically withdrawing away from his command unit which was chasing them down in a rhino.

His turn he popped the stern guard rhino and killed a couple of the sterngaurd. Nothing else of note happened. I should probably mention at this point I've only got two victory points and he'd scored first blood and warlord from my DS mishap and was a few VP ahead from achieving cards, so I was more intent on putting the hurt on they achieving victory...

My next turn I really needed a good psy phase as I planned to divination my Sternguard, unload my combo plas and vengence rounds into a squad an buff meph with the div power that lets you reroll the casters armour save, I'd put meth at the front into the firing to get the rerollable 2+ or a 2+ LoS. Rolled a 1 on my power dice so only had 4 to play with. Decided that 3 on prescience would be best with 1 to get the rerollable 2+. Failed to get either power off. The dice gods really didn't want this game to go well for me. Ended up losing 3 Sternguard and a wound off meth to gets hot. Other side of the field my flamer tacs were still running from his command squad, I send my DC in their direction to reinforce them, but it'd be another turn until they got their.

His turn. He put alot of firepower into the Sternguard and Meth, killing meph and all but two of the Sternguard, his command squad jumped out their rhino and managed to kill all but 1 of the flamer tac squad from shooting. He also moved a tac squad that had being going around picking up objectives to engage my attack bikes but failed to cause any wounds.

This is my last turn. Sternguard charge the tac squad that was in from of them. Attack bikes shoot and charge the tac squad in front of them. DC charge the command squad. DC despite being down to 3 grunts, a power sword and a fist (and chappy) wipe the command squad. The rerolls to hit really saved my bacon. Turns out I had two maelstrom cards for getting the enemy warlord, one worth d3 and got 2 vp, one worth 1 and obviously the secondary objective for warlord. We have to end the game here as my opponents lift had arrived, we total up and ir was 6vp each, so a I managed to snath a draw from the jaws of defeat.

Lessons learned. I really like the DC with a chappy, now we 're WS4 the chappy really allows a small unit to punch about it's weight. I found that because I was more mobile from faster vehicles I could really control the flow of the battle, by hiding units until I was ready to strike and limiting the damage output of my opponent. Even thought Meth isn't as good as he used to be he still scares the crap out of people, so the psychological edge he can give is great. Playing the more laid back lists and units you wouldn't normally run can give a new perspective of elements of the battle.

Sorry for the long post. Hope some of you find it aleast mildly entertaining if not particularly useful for enhancing the competitive nature of the book.

D

Sounds really good, thanks for sharing!
And this thread is intended for any kind of gaming really, so despite the title, this post doesnt go against that

Whilst this may have nothing to do with the thread in general, i'd just like to say - I got exterminatus delivered yesterday evening and the background book is amazing. You do have to take it with a pinch of salt though.
Eg:
-2 and a bit companies of BA, a company of Flesh Tearers, a few thousand surviving Cadians, a few hundred surviving Sisters and some locals against trillions of Tyranids across 3 planets.
-A city on the core of a gas giant.
-2 SM fleets (seeming to number the size of 2 whole full strength chapters by the sound of it, so where's the rest of the 2 chapters?) taking on a fleet that BLOTS OUT parts of a solar system (just try and imagine the enormity of a solar system before trying to imagine how many bio-ships that is).
-The majority of a solar systems fighter craft deployed on Areos, all destroyed by the tyranid presence, a single flight of stormravens and thunderhawks breaks through said tyranids.

The BA in this book are the proper plot protected super duper Mario-when-he-has-a-fire-flower marines that annoy some people. But if you accept this from the start, it is an excellent book.

Just got to the Necron-Dante cup of tea part.

Just wait til you get to the part where the Sanguinor starts doing stuff with ease that is literally impossible for his crappy in game model.

Also makes me laugh how they didn't want Mephy to be a show stealer, so they "deus exit machina" (see tv tropes) him with a psychic headache.

Mephy is still really good.

So here is my idea for a BA ally for my Imperial Guard, let me know if you guys have any suggestions for how to improve it. Basically, I have some Death Company and want a scary unit that my opponent will need to focus down while I shell the crap out of them. I could always deep strike them, but DSing a 10 man unit is always a scary prospect.

Baal Strike Force (the +1 Ini on the charge one)
HQ-
Chaplain with a Jump Pack

Troops-
5 Bolter Scouts
5 Bolter Scouts

Elite-
9 Death Company, JP, 2x Power Fists

So this is the main meat of the force, not sure if I should take the relic Jump Pack on the Chaplain so I have the option for DS, what do you guys think?

Also I have 1 Drop Pod, I can either take a triple melta assault squad, or a Furioso Dreadnought in it. I'm leaning towards Furioso at the moment, with a Heavy Flamer and Frag Cannon. Thoughts?

niv-mizzet wrote:
Just wait til you get to the part where the Sanguinor starts doing stuff with ease that is literally impossible for his crappy in game model.

Also makes me laugh how they didn't want Mephy to be a show stealer, so they "deus exit machina" (see tv tropes) him with a psychic headache.

THREE carnifex??? That last scene with Dante + Sanguinor is cringe.

Poly Ranger wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:
Just wait til you get to the part where the Sanguinor starts doing stuff with ease that is literally impossible for his crappy in game model.

Also makes me laugh how they didn't want Mephy to be a show stealer, so they "deus exit machina" (see tv tropes) him with a psychic headache.

THREE carnifex??? That last scene with Dante + Sanguinor is cringe.

Not wanting the talk on Exterminatus to de-rail the thread, but I didn't have a problem with the final scene with Dante and the Sanguinor, I thought the ending added a nice touch of gravity to the future for the system...but yeah I wish the Sanguinor would be as boss as he was in the fluff.

D

Totally agree. All they would have to do is give him S and T of 6, make his sword ap2 and keep him at the same points cost he was in the last dex. If anyone thinks thats OP they should look at Abbaddon who is 10pts less (than 5th ed sanguinor), has a bucket load more attacks at a higher st and 1 less toughness. And has IC. And he's considered no where near OP.

Anyway I've been looking atvthe flesh tearers strike force and those 6 FA slots have been driving me crazy with all the oppertunities they unlock. Consider the following:

Baal strike force:

Techmarine
Servoharness and combiplasma (in plas pod)

5 scouts
Ccw & bp

5 scouts
Ccw & bp

5 DC
Jps & 1 PF

5 DC
Jps & 1 PF

5 DC
Jps & 1 PF

5 DC
Jps & 1 PF

5 AMs
2 flamers & combi flamer
Pod

5 AMs
2 flamers & combi flamer
Pod

5 AMs
(Jps) 2 melta, combi-melta & mbs

Flesh Tearers Strike Force
Priest (in plas pod)
Combi plasma

5 scouts
Bolters

5 AM
2 melta & combi melta
Pod

5 AM
2 plasma & combi plasma
Pod

5 AM
2 melta & combi melta
Pod

5 AM
(Jps) 2 plasma & combi plasma

Landspeeder (DS)
2 multimelta

Landspeeder (DS)
2 multimelta

1850pts

The plasma pod is quite expensive at 280pts with the 2 characters but puts out 11 plasma shots on the drop (1 tl) and covers both HQ taxes.

Bolters on the FT scouts as they don't have the +1I. The only units loosing out on the +1I who would want to use it are the 2 melta pods after the drop.

It contains 2 flamer, 2 melta and 1 plasma pod so you can decide which you need down T1. There are 2 dual melta speeders to give tank busting shots in later turns. A melta and plasma jp squads to support where needed. And the bread and butter powerfist DC squads with jps to take on anything from hordes to grav-tanks to MCs. The 2 other scout squads provide nuisance factor with their 15 st5 I5 attacks on the charge.

List ignores air targets as it will be in opponents deployment zone most of the game.

What do you think?