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 Kasrkin52 wrote:
is it worth taking mephiston over a standard librarian with jump pack?

Depends on the list and what you want to use the unit for. For me Mephiston works best attached to a tactical squad with a Rhino/Razorback moving him and his unit across the table quickly with their lucifer pattern engines. If I was playing an assault focused jump pack list then the librarian with jump pack would make more sense, especially if I wanted to buff the jump pack unit he was attached to. However, I haven't had much experience with jump pack librarians, if I use a jump pack HQ I usually go for a priest with jump pack, chaplain or Astorath and have my librarians in transports attached to non-jump marines such as tacticals or terminators.

For me mephiston has exceled in big games when I can use him with 5-6 th ss terminators in a lr with priest or lib in termi armour to cast the quickening on meph or roll div
Meph with iron arm, end/warp speed and the quickening is deadly. Used him like this in a few big games and he's destroyed squads of twc and Wraiths but at a cost

Small games I find him limited. Podded him with dc, cs and vg with some success and run him in a stormraven with dc which was fun but in small games <1850 I'd stick with a reg lib to buff dante and sg or grav bikes.

Depends how you play but I feel his lack of inv means he needs a fair bit of protection to really utilise his brutal potential, my favourite hq but he isn't always an auto inc for me sadly as I can't always commit points to his cause

I find Mephiston a bit overpriced. The lack of inv. Save and AP2 makes him worth no more than 150 points, imo.

Biomancy is maybe the best Discipline he can choose from, searching for Iron Arm that can give him what he lacks.

divination instead if you want to play him as a support unit.

He doesn't need invuln though because of los.

He doesn't need invuln though because of los

I agree, you could use him with th/ss termies or models with storm shields etc.
Only thing to look out for with that is precision shots, as I believe they deny look out sir?

InsTincT_OP wrote:

He doesn't need invuln though because of los

I agree, you could use him with th/ss termies or models with storm shields etc.
Only thing to look out for with that is precision shots, as I believe they deny look out sir?

True, but even with 10 sniper scouts, I'd probably have trouble rolling enough precisions to whittle him down very quickly. More than likely someone would drop a pie plate on me before I managed it.

Just my $.02, but I'm in the Martel camp on this one. I think Mephy does a better job buffing a shooting group as they don't need to move as much, and then he also creates added defense for that group if it gets assaulted, so a really powerful shooting group spends less time swamped by a melee group.

InsTincT_OP wrote:

He doesn't need invuln though because of los

I agree, you could use him with th/ss termies or models with storm shields etc.
Only thing to look out for with that is precision shots, as I believe they deny look out sir?

Sternguard work just fine. Why would I want him with TH/SS terminators?

Anyone have any tactical advice for using Scouts (non-sniper) with the BA dex?

I'm built up (and magnetised) 2 boxes of normal scouts and have been theorising how best to utilise them, here's a few ideas that I've come up with. I'm interested if anyone has tried these or has different suggestions.

1)
BP /CCW. Basically a harassment unit, not especially durable but have a decent damage output / points ratio, assuming you can get the charge (potentially a big if). With 3 attacks each at S5 and I5 (BSF only) they're decent against non specialist CC units. Potentially good for up-rooting units in objectives, especially with Infiltrate+Scout, just remember there's no charging T1, so perhaps giving them camo cloaks and hiding in terrain in your opponents DZ when you infiltrate+scout.

Not sure if the squad sizes should be increased above the min to give a few ablative wounds. This raises a few interesting ideas, as a 5man unit is much easier to wipe out than a larger squad, equally the larger the unit the more fire your opponent has to dedicate to removing them, which is less fire going into the rest of your army.

I though about upgrading to a vet with PS for extra MEQ killing but frankly I think the points would be better spend on more bodies.

2)
Shotguns. S4 ap-, assault 2. I like how the actual weapon option looks in the kit, and 2 shots before assaulting is nice, but I think I'd prefer the extra S5 attack when I charge rather than an extra S4 ap- shooting attack, especially when the range is so limited. I could see them being useful camping a mid table or out the way objective where you'll get an opportunity to shoot something before assaulting it. I don't see much use for upgrades in this unit either and I think you'll certainly want a squad bigger than the min since you're losing a bunch of attacks.

3)
Bolter Scouts. Possibly the worst load out for BA. Rapid-fire means no assaulting after you fire your Bolters but it does give you a longer range. They synergise better with the Heavy Weapons, and I do like the Poison Heavy Bolter. I would consider them as a backfield objective holder, possibly with a ML (without Skyfire) to snap at Fliers (you losing less snapping sat BS3 than having to snap with BS4). However I think Sniper Scouts would be better than bolter scouts for this role.

Other thoughts.
I think camo cloaks are a must for scouts, you'll almost certainly be infiltrating/scouting so the buff to your cover save is welcome.

The teleport homer is interesting, especially if taking the arcangels strike force and you have a lone Terminator character without a termie squad, having a terminator librarian appear in the back lines/ midfield puts him in a better place to cast powers, and he can join the scout unit for tanking small arms fire and LoSing ap2. Not necessarily a great option, but I think it's interesting.

I think another upgrade that's always worth taking on the sgt is Meltabombs.

I think that's all I've got. Thoughts?

D

 evildrcheese wrote:
Anyone have any tactical advice for using Scouts (non-sniper) with the BA dex?

Spoiler:

I'm built up (and magnetised) 2 boxes of normal scouts and have been theorising how best to utilise them, here's a few ideas that I've come up with. I'm interested if anyone has tried these or has different suggestions.

1)
BP /CCW. Basically a harassment unit, not especially durable but have a decent damage output / points ratio, assuming you can get the charge (potentially a big if). With 3 attacks each at S5 and I5 (BSF only) they're decent against non specialist CC units. Potentially good for up-rooting units in objectives, especially with Infiltrate+Scout, just remember there's no charging T1, so perhaps giving them camo cloaks and hiding in terrain in your opponents DZ when you infiltrate+scout.

Not sure if the squad sizes should be increased above the min to give a few ablative wounds. This raises a few interesting ideas, as a 5man unit is much easier to wipe out than a larger squad, equally the larger the unit the more fire your opponent has to dedicate to removing them, which is less fire going into the rest of your army.

I though about upgrading to a vet with PS for extra MEQ killing but frankly I think the points would be better spend on more bodies.

2)
Shotguns. S4 ap-, assault 2. I like how the actual weapon option looks in the kit, and 2 shots before assaulting is nice, but I think I'd prefer the extra S5 attack when I charge rather than an extra S4 ap- shooting attack, especially when the range is so limited. I could see them being useful camping a mid table or out the way objective where you'll get an opportunity to shoot something before assaulting it. I don't see much use for upgrades in this unit either and I think you'll certainly want a squad bigger than the min since you're losing a bunch of attacks.

3)
Bolter Scouts. Possibly the worst load out for BA. Rapid-fire means no assaulting after you fire your Bolters but it does give you a longer range. They synergise better with the Heavy Weapons, and I do like the Poison Heavy Bolter. I would consider them as a backfield objective holder, possibly with a ML (without Skyfire) to snap at Fliers (you losing less snapping sat BS3 than having to snap with BS4). However I think Sniper Scouts would be better than bolter scouts for this role.

Other thoughts.
I think camo cloaks are a must for scouts, you'll almost certainly be infiltrating/scouting so the buff to your cover save is welcome.

The teleport homer is interesting, especially if taking the arcangels strike force and you have a lone Terminator character without a termie squad, having a terminator librarian appear in the back lines/ midfield puts him in a better place to cast powers, and he can join the scout unit for tanking small arms fire and LoSing ap2. Not necessarily a great option, but I think it's interesting.

I think another upgrade that's always worth taking on the sgt is Meltabombs.

I think that's all I've got. Thoughts?

D

I run a 10 man unit combat squadded with capes, 5 snipers and Powerfist on the Sarge. Seems like a point sink for scouts I know, but the snipers can set up somewhere and be moderately distracting while the Hidden Fist Sarge and his team of meat shields go cause distractions.

I think there are probably better things I could be spending my points on, but the thing is... I kinda like the lil guys. And when they actually do manage to get into Assault, they still do pretty well against light units or the occasional walker. At that point, all I really want from them is to strip a few wounds somewhere and soak up fire that woulda been used on better units. The Hidden fist Sarge is "just" worrisome enough to make people divert some of their fire at em.

Great bunch a guys. Their hopes and dreams are shattered in almost every battle, but they always show up at the next one

 Phyrekzhogos wrote:

 evildrcheese wrote:
Anyone have any tactical advice for using Scouts (non-sniper) with the BA dex?

Spoiler:

I'm built up (and magnetised) 2 boxes of normal scouts and have been theorising how best to utilise them, here's a few ideas that I've come up with. I'm interested if anyone has tried these or has different suggestions.

1)
BP /CCW. Basically a harassment unit, not especially durable but have a decent damage output / points ratio, assuming you can get the charge (potentially a big if). With 3 attacks each at S5 and I5 (BSF only) they're decent against non specialist CC units. Potentially good for up-rooting units in objectives, especially with Infiltrate+Scout, just remember there's no charging T1, so perhaps giving them camo cloaks and hiding in terrain in your opponents DZ when you infiltrate+scout.

Not sure if the squad sizes should be increased above the min to give a few ablative wounds. This raises a few interesting ideas, as a 5man unit is much easier to wipe out than a larger squad, equally the larger the unit the more fire your opponent has to dedicate to removing them, which is less fire going into the rest of your army.

I though about upgrading to a vet with PS for extra MEQ killing but frankly I think the points would be better spend on more bodies.

2)
Shotguns. S4 ap-, assault 2. I like how the actual weapon option looks in the kit, and 2 shots before assaulting is nice, but I think I'd prefer the extra S5 attack when I charge rather than an extra S4 ap- shooting attack, especially when the range is so limited. I could see them being useful camping a mid table or out the way objective where you'll get an opportunity to shoot something before assaulting it. I don't see much use for upgrades in this unit either and I think you'll certainly want a squad bigger than the min since you're losing a bunch of attacks.

3)
Bolter Scouts. Possibly the worst load out for BA. Rapid-fire means no assaulting after you fire your Bolters but it does give you a longer range. They synergise better with the Heavy Weapons, and I do like the Poison Heavy Bolter. I would consider them as a backfield objective holder, possibly with a ML (without Skyfire) to snap at Fliers (you losing less snapping sat BS3 than having to snap with BS4). However I think Sniper Scouts would be better than bolter scouts for this role.

Other thoughts.
I think camo cloaks are a must for scouts, you'll almost certainly be infiltrating/scouting so the buff to your cover save is welcome.

The teleport homer is interesting, especially if taking the arcangels strike force and you have a lone Terminator character without a termie squad, having a terminator librarian appear in the back lines/ midfield puts him in a better place to cast powers, and he can join the scout unit for tanking small arms fire and LoSing ap2. Not necessarily a great option, but I think it's interesting.

I think another upgrade that's always worth taking on the sgt is Meltabombs.

I think that's all I've got. Thoughts?

D

I run a 10 man unit combat squadded with capes, 5 snipers and Powerfist on the Sarge. Seems like a point sink for scouts I know, but the snipers can set up somewhere and be moderately distracting while the Hidden Fist Sarge and his team of meat shields go cause distractions.

I think there are probably better things I could be spending my points on, but the thing is... I kinda like the lil guys. And when they actually do manage to get into Assault, they still do pretty well against light units or the occasional walker. At that point, all I really want from them is to strip a few wounds somewhere and soak up fire that woulda been used on better units. The Hidden fist Sarge is "just" worrisome enough to make people divert some of their fire at em.

Great bunch a guys. Their hopes and dreams are shattered in almost every battle, but they always show up at the next one

I'm glad that you realise that this isn't a particularly cost efficient load-out, as I don't want want critique to sound too negative.

First off I don't like the duality of heavy weapons (no assault after shooting) with an expensive melee upgrade. Especially since the scout sgt is probably the worst platform for a fist; here's why. PF suffer from being challenged out and killed before striking, scout sgts are more susceptible to this due to WS3 (most things are hitting you on 3+), also basic sgts only have 1 attack base and you can't benefit from 2 CCWs. You mitigate some of this by upgrading to a vet sgt, giving you +1WS and +1A, but then your sinking more points into a 1W model with a4+ save who's striking at I1...

If you want the fist for threatening vehicles Melta bombs are so much better.

D


Automatically Appended Next Post:

InsTincT_OP wrote:

He doesn't need invuln though because of los

I agree, you could use him with th/ss termies or models with storm shields etc.
Only thing to look out for with that is precision shots, as I believe they deny look out sir?

Just for clarification, Precision Shots can still be Look Out Sir'd.

D

I have hard time getting into combat with Power Armored Jump Pack units, I wouldn't count on five guys with 4+ armor to get even near the opponent.
One or two might just make it after Overwatch, but even then they don't have enough attacks to cause significant damage.

"Bolter Scouts. Possibly the worst load out for BA. Rapid-fire means no assaulting after you fire your Bolters"
I really don't want to assault every time. Take Camo Cloaks and Inflintrate to an objective.
Snipers might be better but I hardly ever see Sniper Scouts actually doing anything.

 soomemafia wrote:
I have hard time getting into combat with Power Armored Jump Pack units, I wouldn't count on five guys with 4+ armor to get even near the opponent.
One or two might just make it after Overwatch, but even then they don't have enough attacks to cause significant damage.

"Bolter Scouts. Possibly the worst load out for BA. Rapid-fire means no assaulting after you fire your Bolters"
I really don't want to assault every time. Take Camo Cloaks and Inflintrate to an objective.
Snipers might be better but I hardly ever see Sniper Scouts actually doing anything.

There's a significant different between the roles and uses of scouts vs your other JP infantry. First off, since scouts have infiltrate and scout you can get them either into your opponents DZ or midfield (and importantly straight into cover) whereas your JP units have to hoof it up field on their jump, which as we know isn't exactly slow but they're more susceptible to fire. The other important difference is that your JP units are (generally speaking) the units who are going to be doing the 'heavy lifting' for your army and every casualty is detrimentally to your army's performance. Scouts on the other hand the perceived threat is low in terms of damage output, but they're great for forcing your opponent do change his behaviour. For instance infiltrating a scout squad mid field into a ruin, their mere presence their might change your opponents game plan and worst case scenario they're wiped out and you give up first blood (which considering with a cloak and going to ground/night fighting they could potentially have a 2+ may not happen) they've drawn fire away from your heavy lifters.

Then to top it off if they are ignored, they stand a good change of getting to charge something eventually and with reasonable damage output.

And yes a scout unit can sit on an objective, but I still think bolter scouts are the worst choice for BA and they have "better" attacks when charging and besides, if I don't shoot with them and just camp maybe my opponent will forget about them.

D

I find 5 man scout units with ccw & bp with melta bomb on the sarge perfect. Especially with running fast closing DC and/or SG. Try keep the sarge at the back. A well placed melta bomb often works wonders, especially in combination with a load of st5 attacks on rear armour, and if there are no vehicles around, the +1s and +1I against non assault units is nice for 60pts.
The unit rarely gets wiped out by one unit shooting at it so the opponent then has to overcompensate to make sure the squad is finished off, thus less shots taken by the units that actually matter. They can also help give other units a cover save and lock up minor units that could otherwise be an irritant.
I run 2 of these or 1 and a sniper unit. But I really dislike tacs so I may be biased.

 evildrcheese wrote:

I'm glad that you realise that this isn't a particularly cost efficient load-out, as I don't want want critique to sound too negative.

lol, yeah man, I'm well aware. The way I see it, I have to have a troop or two anyways, so troops that basically soak up a few shots for a small cost is alright. I've been told, I oughta think about just taking two tac squads with razorbacks so they actually serve a firing purpose, or take absolutely bare bones scouts to minimize the cost if they're primarily going to camp, but I do genuinely like the models, so I sorta looked for a happy medium. I actually do have a loaded out tac squad as well, but again, mainly because I like the models enough that I just kinda want them on the field somewhere.

My powerfist scout sarge is a nicely kitbashed model actually. Back in 3rd edition there was a catachan captain mini with a fist held up skyward.... I sawed his arm off, drilled my scout sarge down, attached the "rather enormously bulging muscled arm" to him and the power conduit cable to a power pack on his back. He actually looks really cool, I'd sorta hate not to use him

I am kinda curious though on your thoughts regarding the combat squadding. I basically take it as a single unit, combat squad em and run the meatshield fist off in some other direction. Do you think it would actually make more sense to take them as two separate troops so I could lay em out in different areas of the field? I hadn't really thought about it much before, as I only really have them to soak up shots I don't want a better unit taking, but it would kinda make more tactical sense in any case.

Sure they have the cover save while in the ruins but the very second they come out means that they are essentially dead.
Leave assaulting to the units that may actually do something there.

Poly Ranger wrote:I find 5 man scout units with ccw & bp with melta bomb on the sarge perfect. Especially with running fast closing DC and/or SG. Try keep the sarge at the back. A well placed melta bomb often works wonders, especially in combination with a load of st5 attacks on rear armour, and if there are no vehicles around, the +1s and +1I against non assault units is nice for 60pts.
The unit rarely gets wiped out by one unit shooting at it so the opponent then has to overcompensate to make sure the squad is finished off, thus less shots taken by the units that actually matter. They can also help give other units a cover save and lock up minor units that could otherwise be an irritant.
I run 2 of these or 1 and a sniper unit. But I really dislike tacs so I may be biased.

100% with you on this on, I think a couple of Scout squads have alot of tactical flexibility, even if they don't achieve much on their own if they can tie up a few units and stop them shooting or draw fire away from your heavy lifters

Phyrekzhogos wrote:

 evildrcheese wrote:

I'm glad that you realise that this isn't a particularly cost efficient load-out, as I don't want want critique to sound too negative.

lol, yeah man, I'm well aware. The way I see it, I have to have a troop or two anyways, so troops that basically soak up a few shots for a small cost is alright. I've been told, I oughta think about just taking two tac squads with razorbacks so they actually serve a firing purpose, or take absolutely bare bones scouts to minimize the cost if they're primarily going to camp, but I do genuinely like the models, so I sorta looked for a happy medium. I actually do have a loaded out tac squad as well, but again, mainly because I like the models enough that I just kinda want them on the field somewhere.

My powerfist scout sarge is a nicely kitbashed model actually. Back in 3rd edition there was a catachan captain mini with a fist held up skyward.... I sawed his arm off, drilled my scout sarge down, attached the "rather enormously bulging muscled arm" to him and the power conduit cable to a power pack on his back. He actually looks really cool, I'd sorta hate not to use him

I am kinda curious though on your thoughts regarding the combat squadding. I basically take it as a single unit, combat squad em and run the meatshield fist off in some other direction. Do you think it would actually make more sense to take them as two separate troops so I could lay em out in different areas of the field? I hadn't really thought about it much before, as I only really have them to soak up shots I don't want a better unit taking, but it would kinda make more tactical sense in any case.

The rule of cool for your powerfist dude seems to deciding factor, which I can totally be onboard with, everything doesn't have to be optimised all the time.

Combat squading is neither one or the other as far as I can see. As once you decide to split the unit they act independently so I assume they could infiltrate out in different directions if you wanted. However, with your set up I'd be inclined to run them as a single unit, more ablative wounds for the fist and might be sufficient to draw alot of fire away from the rest of your army.

The nice thing about combat squading is it gives a level if flexibility, the most obvious being, need more units to hold objectives? combat squad the unit. Playing kill points? Don't combat squad. After that you probably need to try and weigh up the benefits of any particular battle.

D

Played a game last night, no great revelations I had a good time.

I was running something like the following:
Chaplain, Veritas Vitea, Melta Bombs
Methpiston

8 DC, 1PF (Chaplain here)
Fragioso, drop pod
9 Sternguard, 3 combo plas, Rhino (Meph here)
DC dread, magna crapple, PFs.

5 Tac, Melta, Rhino
5 Tac, Flamer

2x MM attack bikes
Bike squad, plas, combi plas

Stormeaven, MM, AC, Hurricane Bolters, (DC Dread in Here).

My opponent ran:
Librarian Lvl2 - Biomancy

Sternguard, 2x H Flamer, 4 x Combi flamer, combi plas, combi grav, drop pod
MM dread
5 TH/SS Termies in Redeemer (Libby here)

10 man TAC squad, Melta, MM
10 Man Tac Squad, flamer, HB,

Dev squad, missile with flakk, 2 x Las, 1x Plas can
LR Redeemer

I think that's everything. As you can see relatively friendly game. I got night fighting and the 3 units infiltrating warlord traits, I really do love the veritas vitea, using that I infiltrated bikes out of line of sight near his tac squad, Stern and meth 18" away from the same unit and the 2 MM bikes in a jungle terrain 18" away from on of his LR.

Due to having mainly 3+ dudes, the two redeemers were a cause of consternation, but I was hoping between my meltas, Mepth @S10 and the S10 DC dread would be sufficient to hand them.

My first turn, I dropped the furioso in, moved the bikes and Sternguard into range of the tac squad and blew them away. I also moves other others onto objectives securing 3 allowing me score score d3 points which I got the full 3 and first blood. 4 points to nothing before my opponent even rolls a dice. A good start!

My opponent responded by blowing up my Furioso with his MM dread, he had to do this in HtH and I was able to immobilise him in return. His LRs punished my MM attacks bikes for failing to blow them up, I really should take more than 2 of these as their so damn good and I really missed them once they had been taken off the table. He dropped his Sternguard in on one of my objectives, killing the rhino and 1 tac Marine. He secured that objective (I disembarked away from the objectives to avoid the combo flamers of the combat squaded Sternguard), which earned him a vp.

My next turn, SR came in, failed to take the last 2 hp from the redeemer that my MM bikes shot at, DC and Dante headed back to my deployment zone to take care of the Sternguard that podded in, I split Dante off to kill one combat squad and the DC handled the other. I snagged another objective that turn by holding an objective. Made the mistake of committing the Meph Gaurd to the other flank where the full redeemer (with the TH SS termies in).

His turn he shot my SR with Devs, they were sat on an sky fire nexus objective, I last a hull point and was shaken. He manoeuvred his 2hp redeemer ro support the second redeemer. I don't think anything else of note happened...

I needed to get rid of his drop pod to fulfil a tac ob, and couldn't do it in my shooting phase and then proceeded to fail a 3" charge with the DC and Dante :| which was damn annoying.
In my psychic phase I peril'd but succeeded casting prescience on meth/sterng and lost 2 warp charge points , I then failed to cast S10 and give them a 4++, so didn't charge the LR...
In better news my DC dread disembarked from the SR and assaulted the LR down to 2hp and killed that, leaving my SR in hover mod right in front of his Devs, I shapshot everything at them, but failed to do any wounds. Even more painfully I wasn't able to complete any tac obs.

In his excitement to deal with Mepth and the S Guard he forgot to shoot his Devs at the SR. He shot A Tac squad at Mepth and S Guard, taking another wound off the big man (first was from perils) taking his down to 1W, so I had to LoS a bunch of the flamestorm in fearing of rolling that 1, didn't matter in the end though as he charged his Librarian and TH SS termies in and wiped the squad. I really need to be more careful with that units, as even when I roll the 4++ power there's no guarantees I'll be able to cast it and then it's only a 4++. I'm think I might make them less of a points investment and run a small squad of Stern guard...

We ended there, due to running out of time. I won 5-2, had turn 4 played out I think I could've got 2 more VP, one from a numbered objective card and the second from having 3 units in my DZ and no enemy units, so I'd have to kill the drop pod.

As I said I think my biggest concern currently is mu Sternguard are too pointy and a smaller unit would be more beneficial.

D

Baal strike force
Option 1- (my preferred)
HQ- 190
Sang priest w/ combi grav+bike- 90
ML2 lib with Gallans staff- 100
Troops-390
Tac squad w/ plasma gun, combi plasma in pod- 130
Tac squad w/ plasma gun, combi plasma in pod- 130
Tac squad w/ plasma gun, combi plasma in pod- 130
Fast attack-561
7 bikes w/ 2 grav guns, combi grave-187
7 bikes w/ 2 grav guns, combi grave-187
7 bikes w/ 2 grav guns, combi grave-187
Elites-330
Fragnaught in pod w/ MM- 165
Fragnaught in pod w/ MM- 165
Heavy support-390
Dev squad w/ missile launchers- 130
Dev squad w/ missile launchers- 130
Dev squad w/ missile launchers- 130

List 2-
HQs-
ML2 lib w/ Gallans staff (goes with command squad) on bike-120
ML1 lib-65 (goes with random tac unit)
Troops-390
Tac squad w/ plasma gun, combi plasma in pod- 130
Tac squad w/ plasma gun, combi plasma in pod- 130
Tac squad w/ plasma gun, combi plasma in pod- 130

FA-345
ASM w/ 2 melta guns, combi-melta- 115 in pod
ASM w/ 2 melta guns, combi-melta- 115 in pod
ASM w/ 2 melta guns, combi-melta- 115 in pod

Elites-495
Command squad w/ jump packs-125
Fragnaught in pod w/ HF- 165
Fragnaught in pod w/ HF- 165
Fragnaught in pod w/ HF- 165

Heavy support-315
Predator w/ overcharged engines and heavy bolter sponsons- 105
Predator w/ overcharged engines and heavy bolter sponsons- 105
Predator w/ overcharged engines and heavy bolter sponsons- 105

I assume you want to know which list we prefer?

I like the look of list , lots of in your face units. Decent model count, pretty good fire power. It might struggle a little bit against AV14, a redeemer in particular would cause you problems, not that you see many of them, but I did come up against a dual redeemer list recently which I struggled against despite having a decent amount of Melta...

What's happening with the Libby in this list, could you find the points to give him a bike? Maybe drop a biker from the bike squads?

Notice there's no DC in either list. Even with our new boom we seem to suffer from a low model count armies, even more painful now we don't have easy access to FnP for multiple squads.

D

 evildrcheese wrote:

Spoiler:

 raiden wrote:
Baal strike force
Option 1- (my preferred)
HQ- 190
Sang priest w/ combi grav+bike- 90
ML2 lib with Gallans staff- 100
Troops-390
Tac squad w/ plasma gun, combi plasma in pod- 130
Tac squad w/ plasma gun, combi plasma in pod- 130
Tac squad w/ plasma gun, combi plasma in pod- 130
Fast attack-561
7 bikes w/ 2 grav guns, combi grave-187
7 bikes w/ 2 grav guns, combi grave-187
7 bikes w/ 2 grav guns, combi grave-187
Elites-330
Fragnaught in pod w/ MM- 165
Fragnaught in pod w/ MM- 165
Heavy support-390
Dev squad w/ missile launchers- 130
Dev squad w/ missile launchers- 130
Dev squad w/ missile launchers- 130

List 2-
HQs-
ML2 lib w/ Gallans staff (goes with command squad) on bike-120
ML1 lib-65 (goes with random tac unit)
Troops-390
Tac squad w/ plasma gun, combi plasma in pod- 130
Tac squad w/ plasma gun, combi plasma in pod- 130
Tac squad w/ plasma gun, combi plasma in pod- 130

FA-345
ASM w/ 2 melta guns, combi-melta- 115 in pod
ASM w/ 2 melta guns, combi-melta- 115 in pod
ASM w/ 2 melta guns, combi-melta- 115 in pod

Elites-495
Command squad w/ jump packs-125
Fragnaught in pod w/ HF- 165
Fragnaught in pod w/ HF- 165
Fragnaught in pod w/ HF- 165

Heavy support-315
Predator w/ overcharged engines and heavy bolter sponsons- 105
Predator w/ overcharged engines and heavy bolter sponsons- 105
Predator w/ overcharged engines and heavy bolter sponsons- 105

I assume you want to know which list we prefer?

I like the look of list , lots of in your face units. Decent model count, pretty good fire power. It might struggle a little bit against AV14, a redeemer in particular would cause you problems, not that you see many of them, but I did come up against a dual redeemer list recently which I struggled against despite having a decent amount of Melta...

What's happening with the Libby in this list, could you find the points to give him a bike? Maybe drop a biker from the bike squads?

Notice there's no DC in either list. Even with our new boom we seem to suffer from a low model count armies, even more painful now we don't have easy access to FnP for multiple squads.

D

yeah, neither list has DC mainly because I wanted the odd number pods. (and, frankly fragiosos are amaztastic, I actually run mine Frag cannon+MM now) however it's quite easy to swap them for DC, you lose a bit of alpha strike and firepower, but gain more bodies with FnP and have better objective control. you can take 3x 6 man death company in place of the fragnaughts for 2 points less, gaining another auspex if you so wish. Or some 5pt upgrade. (say, a melta bomb maybe?)

two things I will probably change is-
give dev squads lascannons, (60pts total, drop 1 bike from each squad. Worth it IMO), put the lib in a pod with tacticals, roll on telepathy and psychic shriek away.

also, with the 3 points saved from the bikes -> lascannons I can grab an auspex for the libby! -1 cover save is awesome! (do auspexes stack? Can they give a -2 with two separate ones used on the same unit?)

We don't have Telepathy anymore.

well good thing I've only ran libs once then. May convince me to just go back to two sang priests on the bikes.. hm.

Just for clarification, Precision Shots can still be Look Out Sir'd.

Thanks, I'm still a noob haha

Martel732 wrote:
Mephy can't penetrate 2+ armor. That eliminates him from dedicated CC right there. But he's really good at punching out vehicles and most MCs.

How many competitive lists do you face with a lot of 2+ armor? His good at punching 95% of the models on pretty much any table. No invul can be a problem, even with los.

Remtek wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Mephy can't penetrate 2+ armor. That eliminates him from dedicated CC right there. But he's really good at punching out vehicles and most MCs.

How many competitive lists do you face with a lot of 2+ armor? His good at punching 95% of the models on pretty much any table. No invul can be a problem, even with los.

and then there were dreadknights

Things that Mephiston is great against that are commonly played:

-Bikes
-Tactical Marines
-Spawn
-Hive Tyrants
-Carnifexs
-Vehicles of ALL types
-Knights
-Flesh Hounds
-Basically every troop choice ever
-Wraithknights

The last one is especially huge now. Wile an active force weapon wont kill a gargantuan creature outright, it will deny fnp and cause d3 wounds per unsaved wound. With quickening, sanguine sword and easy access to prescience he can usually take down a WK before it gets to swing.

Remtek wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Mephy can't penetrate 2+ armor. That eliminates him from dedicated CC right there. But he's really good at punching out vehicles and most MCs.

How many competitive lists do you face with a lot of 2+ armor? His good at punching 95% of the models on pretty much any table. No invul can be a problem, even with los.

It's every IC calling him out in a challenge. There's where you see 2+ armor. And Dreadknights.

Hey guys, have any of you ran Chaplains in 7th succesfully?

I was considering a list with 10 ASM, 10 DC, Sanguinary Priest and a Chaplain with Veritas Vitae.
I would try to get the "Inflintrate Warlord + 3 units" and inflintrate 20 fearless models with FnP close to my opponent.

Could it work?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, another question.
I'm going to ally some Iron Hands to get Centurions in my army. Is the TL Lascannon valid build? I prefer it over Gravs for the range, but I'm not sure if it's worth it...

Cents should be grav cents or not at all. Lascannons can't take enough models off the table for the cost.

Three twin-linked Lascannons and three ML's should provide good AT.
It costs more than tri-Las Predator, but has more firepower, accuracy and survability, with only slightly less mobility. And with Chapter tactics (WS or IF ?) they become even more dangerous.

Yet another question: opinions on Whirlwind Scorpius?
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/s/Relic_Scorpius.pdf