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 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
Honestly, the more I think about it the more I feel like Baal Predators would definitely have a place in certain metas. Particularly those rife with eldar jetbikes, harlequins, and dark eldar allies. Sure, they're awful against wraithknights and imperial knights, but they're cheaper than tri las preds, and those are awful vs bikes and anything that can jink.

Thing is, how are you getting the Jetbikes in range for the Flamestorm?

Don't get me wrong, I am getting a Baal Predator to deal with such stuff, but I don't know how they are going to get to their targets well.

Don"t use it?

The assault cannon and heavy bolter setup will kill 2 to 3 bikes in a turn, regardless of if they jink. They may jink anyways in fear of the rends on the assault cannon. By comparison the tri las pred kills 1, maybe 2 bikes in a turn of shooting, but forces them to jink.

A pair of baals can pretty reliably take out a 5 man bike squad in an average turn of shooting.

 th3maninblak wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
Honestly, the more I think about it the more I feel like Baal Predators would definitely have a place in certain metas. Particularly those rife with eldar jetbikes, harlequins, and dark eldar allies. Sure, they're awful against wraithknights and imperial knights, but they're cheaper than tri las preds, and those are awful vs bikes and anything that can jink.

Thing is, how are you getting the Jetbikes in range for the Flamestorm?

Don't get me wrong, I am getting a Baal Predator to deal with such stuff, but I don't know how they are going to get to their targets well.

Don"t use it?

The assault cannon and heavy bolter setup will kill 2 to 3 bikes in a turn, regardless of if they jink. They may jink anyways in fear of the rends on the assault cannon. By comparison the tri las pred kills 1, maybe 2 bikes in a turn of shooting, but forces them to jink.

A pair of baals can pretty reliably take out a 5 man bike squad in an average turn of shooting.

Fair enough. Going cruising speed should keep the bikes inside the range of the Assault Cannon, and scatterbikes will need to stay within 36" to even shoot at the Baal. I was hoping for something I had missed because the Flamestorm Cannon and Heavy Flamer sponsons would ignore cover and wipe out most if not all bikes in a squad. If they could reach them, that is. I still think we need a formation that grants scout back to the Baal Predator.

The flame storm cannon was never really that great, even in 5th.

Martel732 wrote:
The flame storm cannon was never really that great, even in 5th.

If there was a way to take advantage of its Ignore Cover ability, it would not be as bad. As of right now, there is no useful way to deploy it.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
The flame storm cannon was never really that great, even in 5th.

If there was a way to take advantage of its Ignore Cover ability, it would not be as bad. As of right now, there is no useful way to deploy it.

AV 11 sides doom the chassis, as always. At best, it was one-shot weapon, and wasn't priced accordingly.

Agree, if it had torrent on all template weapons, maybe, but I can't ever see a reason to ever take HF sponsons over HB no matter the main weapon, and I can't see a reason to take the Flamestorm over the AC currently.

D

 evildrcheese wrote:
Agree, if it had torrent on all template weapons, maybe, but I can't ever see a reason to ever take HF sponsons over HB no matter the main weapon, and I can't see a reason to take the Flamestorm over the AC currently.

D

Sad. I was hoping that I had missed something so I could take the FSC and HF sponsons for roasting speeders. Oh well, I love me some Assault Cannon action.

Assault Cannon variant is still getting glanced to death with SA11. I love my Baal Preds, but they have no place in a competitive list imo.

Remtek wrote:
Assault Cannon variant is still getting glanced to death with SA11. I love my Baal Preds, but they have no place in a competitive list imo.

You can play more games with it using terrain/other tanks. Is it efficient? Probably not. But then, what is efficient in C:BA? Basically nothing.

Remtek wrote:
Assault Cannon variant is still getting glanced to death with SA11. I love my Baal Preds, but they have no place in a competitive list imo.

Baals were designed for urban warfare in the fluff, of course they are doomed in the open. They have to weave between terrain to be any use. They need scout back, though.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Remtek wrote:
Assault Cannon variant is still getting glanced to death with SA11. I love my Baal Preds, but they have no place in a competitive list imo.

Baals were designed for urban warfare in the fluff, of course they are doomed in the open. They have to weave between terrain to be any use. They need scout back, though.

I don't care about the fluff. All the AV 11 side tanks are pretty weak in general if they don't have 48" range. I frankly don't think scouting really helps that much.

Hey guys. Haven't been seeing BA really tearing up any tournaments. Is there any build out there that's considered competitively superior that really give the top armies right now a run for their money?

I'm thinking about joining the BA ranks and would like to be able to compete with Necrons, Eldar, Centstar, Daemons and the like. I'm in a pretty competitive meta and would like to bring a tough BA list but don't know where to start...

 syypher wrote:
Hey guys. Haven't been seeing BA really tearing up any tournaments. Is there any build out there that's considered competitively superior that really give the top armies right now a run for their money?

I'm thinking about joining the BA ranks and would like to be able to compete with Necrons, Eldar, Centstar, Daemons and the like. I'm in a pretty competitive meta and would like to bring a tough BA list but don't know where to start...

There's really nothing in the BA codex that can compete with those builds. GW did the BA zero favors with the new codex.

 syypher wrote:
Hey guys. Haven't been seeing BA really tearing up any tournaments. Is there any build out there that's considered competitively superior that really give the top armies right now a run for their money?

I'm thinking about joining the BA ranks and would like to be able to compete with Necrons, Eldar, Centstar, Daemons and the like. I'm in a pretty competitive meta and would like to bring a tough BA list but don't know where to start...

Yes there is. Use the Flesh Tearer's Strike Force and buy lots of Drop Pods, scouts, and a Priest to chauffeur Skitarii to the battlefield. In the grim darkness of the future BA are Uber.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

 syypher wrote:
Hey guys. Haven't been seeing BA really tearing up any tournaments. Is there any build out there that's considered competitively superior that really give the top armies right now a run for their money?

I'm thinking about joining the BA ranks and would like to be able to compete with Necrons, Eldar, Centstar, Daemons and the like. I'm in a pretty competitive meta and would like to bring a tough BA list but don't know where to start...

Yes there is. Use the Flesh Tearer's Strike Force and buy lots of Drop Pods, scouts, and a Priest to chauffeur Skitarii to the battlefield. In the grim darkness of the future BA are Uber.

That's not a BA list. That's a Skitarii list taking advantage of the BA FA slot.

To be fair, the Flesh Tearers detachment + Skitarii is the best list that uses Blood Angels in it. BUT there are still some "pretty good" units in the book.

-Dante
-5 assault marines with Meltas in pods
-TAC squads with heavy flamers in Pods
-10+ Death Company with jump packs and a PF or two
-Astorath (if taken with DC)
-Sanguinary guard are decent
-Sanguinary priests
-Bike units with Grav
-TriLas preds that are fast vehicles
-Mephiston is a boss in a pod
-Use FW to take a Sicaran instead of Baals

That's pretty much it... If I had to run competitive pure BA then it would be big DC blobs with Astorath plunging up the middle, a few grav bikes, and a crap ton of MSU melta/flamer pods landing in their face.

That's a pretty accurate list, though you forgot grav bikes. While not as good as their white scar counterparts, we actually take advantage of concussive on grav, and assault a wider variety of targets.

Granted, that's not a short list of good things in our codex.

 th3maninblak wrote:
That's a pretty accurate list, though you forgot grav bikes. While not as good as their white scar counterparts, we actually take advantage of concussive on grav, and assault a wider variety of targets.

Granted, that's not a short list of good things in our codex.

Yes, I'd definitely have to have Grav bikes in there. Now, consider that Blood Angels have by far the most Formation support out of the Space Marine chapters and there are a few viable ways to field the army. Unfortunately, BA has a lot of good and not a lot of great, and so seems to fall just short of challenging Eldar/Necrons.

Martel732 wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:

 syypher wrote:
Hey guys. Haven't been seeing BA really tearing up any tournaments. Is there any build out there that's considered competitively superior that really give the top armies right now a run for their money?

I'm thinking about joining the BA ranks and would like to be able to compete with Necrons, Eldar, Centstar, Daemons and the like. I'm in a pretty competitive meta and would like to bring a tough BA list but don't know where to start...

Yes there is. Use the Flesh Tearer's Strike Force and buy lots of Drop Pods, scouts, and a Priest to chauffeur Skitarii to the battlefield. In the grim darkness of the future BA are Uber.

That's not a BA list. That's a Skitarii list taking advantage of the BA FA slot.

Yeah, I was being facetious.

Oh, sorry. Lost in interwebs translation.

I've been working on this list for the better part of a week now, and I think I just might be onto something.

Primary- Blood Angels Baal Strike Force

LoW
-Dante

HQ
-Sanguinary Priest
Jump Pack

-Mephiston

Elites
-5x Sanguinary Guard
Power Fist
Chapter Banner
Inferno Pistol

-Command Squad
3x Melta Guns
3x Storm Shields
Drop Pod

-5x Death Company
Jump Packs
Power Fist

-5x Death Company
Jump Packs
Power Fist

Troops
-5x Scouts
Close Combat Weapons
Melta Bomb

-5x Scouts
Close Combat Weapons
Melta Bomb

Fast Attack
-5x Bikes
2x Grav Guns
Combi Grav

Allied Detachment- Sentinels of Terra

HQ
-Librarian
Bones of Osrek
Auspex
Ml2

Elites
-5x Sternguard
3x Combi Melta
Drop Pod

Troops
-5x Tactical Marines
Melta Gun
Combi Melta
Drop Pod

Mephy goes with the command squad, the libby goes with sternguard, and both drop down first turn, with Mephiston splitting sanguinary and divination for prescience and quickening and the librarian rolling on telepathy. While we can't keep up with most armies in terms of firepower, we can saturate the board with targets and force them to make awkward or suboptimal moves and try to catch them between our advancing forces and the threats we either infiltrated up or dropped in their back field.

What does Dante do in this list?

Martel732 wrote:
What does Dante do in this list?

Well, for starters he's arguably the best combat character in the book, and one of the best marine characters in CC. He also protects his squad by giving them a 4w eternal warrior dude with a 2+/4++/5+++ to tank wounds on (goes with the priest and sanguinary guard, of course). The hit and run and 6in fear bubble give him plenty of squad buffs, too. The fear doesn't come up often but against orks/crons/etc, it can be backbreaking.

His warlord trait isn't as good here as in most of my lists, but it lets me counter deploy the death co and sanguinary guard if need be against opposing drop pod armies and other alpha strike forces. I like deployment options.

 th3maninblak wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
What does Dante do in this list?

Well, for starters he's arguably the best combat character in the book, and one of the best marine characters in CC. He also protects his squad by giving them a 4w eternal warrior dude with a 2+/4++/5+++ to tank wounds on (goes with the priest and sanguinary guard, of course). The hit and run and 6in fear bubble give him plenty of squad buffs, too. The fear doesn't come up often but against orks/crons/etc, it can be backbreaking.

His warlord trait isn't as good here as in most of my lists, but it lets me counter deploy the death co and sanguinary guard if need be against opposing drop pod armies and other alpha strike forces. I like deployment options.

You run Dante alongside your Sanguinary Guard and Sanguinary Priest, based on your previous postings, correct? I think that might be what Martel was after. Literally, what does Dante do in the list, which is run around with the SG and SP. I do the same strategy. Giving Dante +1 WS and FNP makes him an absolute beast. On the charge, there isn't much that goes much faster than him.

If I have the extra points, I go ahead and give the SP the Angel's Wing so Interceptor is less effective and so they can have laser-guided Deep Strike.

Is giving this set up of SG(Dante+SP+SG) the Chapter Banner worth it?

Normally I upgrade the priest, too. But in this list points were super tight.

As for the chapter banner, YES. It is definitely worth it. In that unit it nets you 4 str5 ap3 attacks, 1 str9 ap2 attack, 1 str5 ap- attack and a str7 ap2 swing on the charge for 25 points. The reroll on morale and pinning is substantial as well, particularly vs pinning in an army that doesnt want to lose a turn of movement.

 th3maninblak wrote:
Normally I upgrade the priest, too. But in this list points were super tight.

As for the chapter banner, YES. It is definitely worth it. In that unit it nets you 4 str5 ap3 attacks, 1 str9 ap2 attack, 1 str5 ap- attack and a str7 ap2 swing on the charge for 25 points. The reroll on morale and pinning is substantial as well, particularly vs pinning in an army that doesnt want to lose a turn of movement.

Great, I don't have the points to spare to put it into most of my lists, and it isn't exactly something that I can fit in very easily. The fact it looks so frickin' awesome and that it doesn't reduce the effectiveness of the SG carrying it due to Angelus Bolters being wrist-mounted just makes it sting that much more :(

I am going to be getting a Baal Predator kit in the near future. I want to have all the options available for it. I have a turret and heavy bolter sponsons from a Predator Destructor kit. I plan on magnetizing the sponsons (easy enough), but if I disassemble the turret, would it be compatible with the Flamestorm Cannon from the Baal Predator kit?

You need one additional part to make it work. And the sponsons are different from the regular predator.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Warhammer-40000-Space-Marine-Blood-Angel-Baal-Predator-Turret-/361301863890?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item541f44edd2

 Crimson Devil wrote:
You need one additional part to make it work. And the sponsons are different from the regular predator.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Warhammer-40000-Space-Marine-Blood-Angel-Baal-Predator-Turret-/361301863890?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item541f44edd2

Shoot, I see what you are talking about now that I look at the different models. Scratch that idea for now. TLAsC is all I will ever run anyway. The HB sponsons are pretty much the same. Different weapon covers. Will just build the Assault Cannon and HB version and be done with it.

Is a Furioso with Frag Cannon and Heavy Flamer in a Drop Pod a valid way for dealing with Scatbikes? Drop it Turn One next to a squad of bikes and lay down three templates. No Jink saves allowed. Sure, it is probably going to die after that, but is it worth the investment?