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 Manchu wrote:
No stream cross mechanics ...

That makes me sad :( We don't know if other scenarios will have new rules but most likely not. There are some Ghosts that require two different colored streams, so it needs at least two players to hit vs only one player... but yeah no crossing the streams.

I know its a primer, but still needs to explain a bit more about trapping ghosts. The example is easy one stream, it becomes trapped. When hitting a ghost that requires multiple streams, does it require it on the same turn, do the stream tokens stay with the ghost? I'm guessing it does, which makes sense but I could see pro/cons to making the streams only last a turn too.

Although I can't think of any other reason the stream markers would be color-coded.


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 Dark Severance wrote:
There are some Ghosts that require two different colored streams

Ah there we go.

 Manchu wrote:
Although I can't think of any other reason the stream markers would be color-coded.

 Dark Severance wrote:
There are some Ghosts that require two different colored streams

Ah there we go.

Yeah in the case of Slimer we have:

Slimer - Class 5
Invulnerable: Slimer is unaffected by combat until ALL Gates are closed.
To Hit: 4 or higher
To Trap: 4 streams (at least 2 Ghostbusters must have at least 2 streams)
When Hit: Moves 3 spaces toward that Ghostbuster
When Missed: Any adjacent Ghostbusters get Slimed, then Slimer moves 1 space in a random direction, then moves 2 spaces towards the next Slime.
Special: When Slimer reachs a Slime, remove it and increase "To Trap" by 2.
Note: If Slimer leaves the map, he reenters from the space on the opposite edge.


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Interesting... so the Streams stay with the ghost until it moves out of LoS or off the board map, then they are lost and you have to restream ghosts to trap them if they need more than one stream.

Replenishing Proton Stream tokens-- Each Ghostbuster has 5 Stream tokens. If all 5 of yours are attached to a Ghost, and that is not enough to Trap it, you will need some help! You don't replenish your PS tokens until the Stream is broken or the Ghost is captured. Then all of your PS tokens are returned to you. If you have a Stream on a Ghost and fire at a new target, you lose all Streams on the old target.

Losing a stream marker when a ghost moves out of LOS seems pretty fiddly.


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Replenishing Proton Stream tokens-- Each Ghostbuster has 5 Stream tokens. If all 5 of yours are attached to a Ghost, and that is not enough to Trap it, you will need some help! You don't replenish your PS tokens until the Stream is broken or the Ghost is captured. Then all of your PS tokens are returned to you. If you have a Stream on a Ghost and fire at a new target, you lose all Streams on the old target.

OK good -- big relief that you can only target one ghost at a time. I suspected you could put markers on multiple ghosts, which was playing havoc with my sense of simulation.

Manchu, that was a good question...

@creator - If two ghosts on the map combine to make a higher level ghost, does the model for the higher level ghost come from the available pool of ghosts off of the map (and the lower-level figures would therefore go into the pool of ghosts available to spawn)?

If so, what happens if two lower-level ghosts combine but you don't have a higher-level ghost figure available off-mat?

@Manchu re: Combining Ghosts -- The higher Class Ghost must come from the Spirit World (off map). The two Ghosts that combined are both removed from game. If the upgraded version is not in the Spirit World at the time, your team loses the game!

Yikes -- so much for the game being a push over!

It really is growing on me. At first I was like meh and now I'm like, can I play now. Probably going put my Sedition War game boards to use, since they are square based and play a mockup version.

Now that we know the Gates aren't static placements off the edge (like in Zombicide) that definitely makes a lot more options for gameplay. Since there is a limited amount of ghosts if you ignore the Class 1 ghosts and only go after Class 2/3, you can risk more Class 1 combining into 2/3... since Class 1 pile gets replenished each time a Class 2/3 is made.


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And $400K

I dunno - you will always have less figures of higher class ghosts available overall so you really need to prevent ghosts from combining (since you can never lose the game by running out of class 1 ghosts if there are higher classes left).


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Venkman could be the man to do it, too!

Would Venkman's 4th level skill chain if the roll for the free combat action also hits?

Yes, it does chain! Of course, he would need to be neck deep in Ghosts/Gates to chain more than a couple times. Not that he minds that... - Matt Hyra (MH)

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So I guess no distinction between Boss and Ghost cards:

Every enemy is represented on a "Ghost Card", So, yes. Gozer, Zull, and Vinz Clortho are bosses, and all bosses count as Ghosts. -Mataio Wilson

That is why it'll take a balance of trapping Class 1/2. In the example scenario there are only 2 Class 2 and 1 Class 3. You can't just trap a ghost and leave it too, it needs to be returned to the Spirit World. Then you still run a risk the Class 1 become new Class 2... so basically jumping around catching multiple ghosts.

It can definitely provide some difficult choices mixed in with the random movement. Do you hit the ghost close to you because you don't want to be slimed or have to shoot at another ghost who could possibly combine next turn.

It does feel like it is losing momentum though... I think we're close to that plateau where we need to start increasing the average pledge. If they resolve the EU thing, that would also greatly help. Hopefully the next SG is some sort of tiles, encounter, scenario expansion or a combination of a unlock and new thing... Although they could probably do a 4 pack of miniatures for "New Ghostbusters (ie: some female miniatures)" as a Add-On next and that would probably get them to the $500K mark.


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 Manchu wrote:
So I guess no distinction between Boss and Ghost cards:

Every enemy is represented on a "Ghost Card", So, yes. Gozer, Zull, and Vinz Clortho are bosses, and all bosses count as Ghosts. -Mataio Wilson

That does make sense to a degree. It would really just be a "Class X" card instead of a boss. We haven't seen a Boss card fully so we assumed it was titled different because they labeled it a boss.

They have changed the rewards images so that the term "Boss Card" is now "Ghost Card."


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 Dark Severance wrote:
I think we're close to that plateau where we need to start increasing the average pledge.

Yep. I am surprised we are doing another $50K free SG rather than a $25-$30K add-on SG. I guess they wanted to get the Gozer trio out of the way, as it might be anticlimactic later on?

So now Zombicide comparisons include that its a tile game, there are miniatures, dice and it has a AI.. so it is similar to Zombicide... They don't play the same enough to even warrant them being called similar. Well I guess if you consider them both fruit but one is really a tomato and the other is a apple.

What was the very first board game where people moved around with squares, had miniatures and an AI monster? I'm fairly sure it wasn't Zombicide but I'm going to say this game is like that now. I guess I relate games being similar based off of mechanics not how they look. Even the zombie/ghost AI function completely differently between the two games.

I will say at least the comments have become a lot more constructive today. Although I believe they always were but now backers feel like CZE is listening more since they made the announcement about the bundle deals.

Looking at the projects people making that comparison have backed in the past, I notice they usually have not backed a ton of table top games so that may be a clue.

In any case, here's some news:








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 Dark Severance wrote:
I will say at least the comments have become a lot more constructive today. Although I believe they always were but now backers feel like CZE is listening more since they made the announcement about the bundle deals.

Yes it has really gotten better since Update 8.

I first read the Zombicide comparison on BGG -- notorious, imo, for making bad comparisons. No, Havana and Cuba are not comparable games because they have the same art.

OTOH, GB's still sounding like a "roll dice to hit" system, which pretty much describes too many dungeoncrawlers and RPGs I have. It *is* suitable for the casual gamers. Conan's "energy units" mechanic added some depth to the game, and Myth's cards at least has some variety.

ced1106 wrote:
OTOH, GB's still sounding like a "roll dice to hit" system, which pretty much describes too many dungeon crawlers and RPGs I have. It *is* suitable for the casual gamers. Conan's "energy units" mechanic added some depth to the game, and Myth's cards at least has some variety.

It is a bit more than just a hit, at least at higher class Ghosts. A hit does do something but it can do something else which adds a bit more randomness. For example Slimer when hit (requires multiple hits) moves 3 spaces towards that Ghostbuster, Class 2 moves 1 space towards that Ghostbuster. Misses also causes something to happen, move away, towards or random direction and leave a slime depending on the ghost. Although the mechanics of the game are fairly simple, it is layered pretty well to create an interesting mix of gameplay.

Conan's mechanic drew me to back the game eventually. But the downside is that it still requires a player to be an Overlord, there is no AI mechanic built in. Like a lot of dungeon crawlers, that is the same thing that also requires a DM to power the forces. The AI isn't quite as simple as Zombicide so it is a bit harder to manipulate like you can with Zombicide. The Ghost AI is fairly well done. There are a couple things I might have done differently but overall I think its a good system.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I wish Venkman looked at least a little bit like Bill Murray... The others are kinda mostly okayish, but he's really bad.

Likeness rights. That's why they don't really look much like the actors from the movie.

In fact, the renders are based on character design from the IDW comic series.

And really soon we get to the real determination of how this KS will develop or turn out. We starting to reach that plateau, later than I actually would of predicted though but it is clear that it is happening. It may take another day to unlock the SG and if they throw another $50K SG for one miniature or one thing again that is free, I have a feeling it will stall for awhile.

We've already lost some backers but that is most likely to the EU situation not being handled to their liking. I would still like to see something else done to improve that.

Day 1: 1422 Backers, $204,407
Day 2: 942 Backers, $140,793
Day 3: 430 Backers, $73,166
Day 4: 95 Backers, $17,542

We are still on Day 4 but it is clear the train is slowing down. By looking at the average dollars per backer we can see most of the funding currently is based on new backers. There was a insurgence on Day 3 because of the bundle announcements which bumped the average backer dollars up by $10. It wasn't a huge amount though because they are still same sculpts with some new scenarios... I like the new bundles though.

Now we get into the realm of seeing how the campaign is really designed to shape up. If all SG's were done at a $50K and are only one sculpt, then they would have severely estimated this and KS incorrectly. If that early extra funding was to unlock some surprises meant for later, then they might have planned correctly. Either way it is always the mid campaign that determines if the KS stalls or will continue to grow.

The needle did not move much at all when the bundles were officially announced in an update, it was too late into the (American) night. The big pushes are coming during the (American) day. Notwithstanding all the complaining, shipping to EU (and most of ROW) right now is only 29 USD more expensive than for US backers. If they figure out a way to deal with the VAT issue, which they have just posted they are actively doing, then maybe EU backers will step up.

I totally agree that the next SG announcement is hugely important. It needs to be less than $50k and it needs to be an add-on.

The other thing is, we're heading into the weekend so the pledge flow is going to slow way down either way.

I don't think I can justify getting in on this one (already have plenty of games that don't get enough table time), but as a bit of a collector I'd love to get a set of the glow in the dark dice.

Hopefully that gets made as an add on, or I might just have to toss in a dollar to get commenting rights and see if anyone wants to sell theirs off whenever delivery finally happens.

Right now, the dice are not a good deal for collectors as they don't have the GB symbol or anything. I am hoping that gets added at some point.

I also have a ton of stuff that never gets played, especially in the board game department as I enjoy board games much more in theory than in practice. But this one seems like a good bet because it is quite strait forward and the license is well-liked enough that I could probably convince non-gamer friends to give it a go.

 Manchu wrote:
Right now, the dice are not a good deal for collectors as they don't have the GB symbol or anything. I am hoping that gets added at some point.

Eh, glow in the dark dice and getting to contribute a couple of bucks to a neat campaign would be good enough for me. Having the logo on them would be icing.

That said, apparently one has to buy in at a tier to buy add ons, so I think I'll have to resort to plan B and see if any backers wish to sell theirs off when the day comes.

A lot of us have been lobbying for some of the Deluxe stuff to be available as a separate add-on. I think that would be an especially good idea for dice. But CZE is trying to balance serving everything up cafeterian style with maintaining the Deluxe pledge's value. So a glowy dice add-on might be more expensive than one would otherwise expect.

Additional glow in the dark dice as add-on could become a possibility. Well hopefully what I said makes sense to them and I'm not being placated. Traditionally CZE has done a good job of listening to players but not just responding to the loudest voice. That has been good, some of the decisions as a company I've agreed with and have been good and others I have not.

Man it is a sloooooow crawl to $450K, as predicted. If the next SG needs another $50K step, we probably won't get there until this coming Tuesday at the earliest.

I bet CZE is discussing a la carte pricing on the Deluxe exclusives as I type this, Dark Severance. If I can get Angry Stay Puft, Sandman, and the Sedgewick tiles for under $45, I'll step down to Paranormal (unless a Mass Hysteria early bird opens). The Deluxe box is meh beyond meh, glow in the dark dice do not excite me, and the giclee print is useless filler.

That said, I can foresee complaints about a $20 Angry Stay Puft add-on, and they would not be unjustified ...

Yeah there will be people who will step down but also people will step up. I always end up falling into the trap of stepping up :(

I end up going in for an amount and once I hit, its only $10 more I end up upgrading. Usually though, those KS have additional content that gets added specifically to that pledge that makes the value worth it though.

Take the Trio we've unlocked as examples. Ecto-1 would have been an update for all pledges. However the Trio would have probably had them be free for Deluxe. I'd then make an additional Trio Add-On for them but overall the big value is in Deluxe. It does let someone customize though, if they only want Base and the Trio too. Unfortunately they didn't do that initially so it is a bit too late to do that.


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I think we're more or less on the same track. There is definitely some good discussions and brain storming. Then we get the occasional backer who has no KS experience other than GB and Conan... I'm not sure they understand KS Exclusives that well.

Wow ... this latest SG is excruciating. Another $50K step free mini would crush morale at this point.

Yeah pretty much. Honestly if it is another $50K SG for a single miniature... I'm not backing out, but I'll be away from comments for awhile. Not because I don't mind debating and discussing but because its for my sanity. I am already constantly checking totals like a kid in the back of the car going, "Are we there yet?".

Unfortunately I've seen too many KS where good suggestions usually don't effect things until the campaign has truly stalled. That means waiting another few days for any real adjustments, which by then means we lose momentum. I mean it won't stop it but does make it less exciting which can result in buyers remorse and people pulling to wait for retail.

And there it is! Wow, that was painful.

But it's still only 4 days in, right?