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Pain4Pleasure wrote:
To be fair to him I do have roughly $5300 in retail of orks...

Well I am wondering what most of that figure is. Is most of it infantry, vehicles, flyers or something in-between ?

SGTPozy wrote:
Orks have enough love already.

I think the OPer was talking about GW giving orks some love, not the community giving Orks love.

The key thing to remember is that Orks have one of the strongest communities compared to a lot of the other xenos armies out there. Unfortunately GW hasn't rewarded our loyality with anything. All they see is money which needs to be made. They know that people who play orks will continue to spend money because they love them.

Compared to Tau and Eldar armies around 2009 or so, no one really played them. Their fan base was tiny. With the power creep of their new codexes, more people bought them, more money was spent. GW figured that they'd be able to get more money out of the people who don't want to play orks by spending money on armies which they might be more willing to invest in.

I don't feel that GW have given us any major love in a long time. Our codex was one of the last to be updated. It's a good codex although it doesn't have an "answer-to-everything" style competitive list that I think a lot of other armies seem to get. I think that's partly what a lot of people wished we could get.

On the other side of things. I would say that even to just make the rules more fluffy for Orks would be REALLY appreciated. If Orks ARE meant to be the largest race in the universe, then it would be good for our codex to reflect this. Perhaps in the same method that Space Marines had their super-thick codex released.

It would be heaven if Ork players were given that kind of real variety with Orks. Unfortunately we're not. So we're left to rely on Forgeworld models or rules for our extra fluff, or apocalypse. Both of which are easy for your opponent to say "na I don't want to face against that stuff because they're not GW offical" or some rubbish like that...

Sketchyfk wrote:
It would be heaven if Ork players were given that kind of real variety with Orks. Unfortunately we're not. So we're left to rely on Forgeworld models or rules for our extra fluff, or apocalypse. Both of which are easy for your opponent to say "na I don't want to face against that stuff because they're not GW offical" or some rubbish like that...

Except the Stompa. Its in the Ork codex so they cannot refuse it. No Forgeworld or Apocalypse go between there.

Also a lot of the Forgeworld units have been approved for use in general 40k games.

It would be awesome if orks had something like marines do with chapter tactics. It would be so easy for them, speed freaks, bad moonz...

The Imperial Answer wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
To be fair to him I do have roughly $5300 in retail of orks...

Well I am wondering what most of that figure is. Is most of it infantry, vehicles, flyers or something in-between ?

7 Meks
2 Big Mek w/ kff
2 big mek w/ sag
2 big mek in mega armor
3 warboss w/ power klaw
3 painboy
Badrukk
Snikrot
Grukk
Zhadsnark/war boss on bike
Mad Dok
Da Boss Zagstruck
Big Mek on bike
Pain Boy on bike
21 mega nobz multiple w/ kombi skorcha/rokkit
65+ Nobs
25+ Tank Bustas
15 kammandos
30+ Burna Boyz
50+ shoota boys
170+ slugga boys
10+ big shoota
130+ gretchin w/ runtherd
2 burna bommer
12 defdkoptas
40 warbikers
2 wartrakk
5 warbuggy
45 storm boyz
5 trukks
5 battlewagons
4 deff dread
15 killa kans
45 lootas
Gorkanaught
morkanaught
stompa
ghazghkull
1 looted wagon
3 lobba
3 kannon
3 zapp gun

I think that's everything.

Nice army! Is it all painted up?

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

The Imperial Answer wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
To be fair to him I do have roughly $5300 in retail of orks...

Well I am wondering what most of that figure is. Is most of it infantry, vehicles, flyers or something in-between ?

7 Meks
2 Big Mek w/ kff
2 big mek w/ sag
2 big mek in mega armor
3 warboss w/ power klaw
3 painboy
Badrukk
Snikrot
Grukk
Zhadsnark/war boss on bike
Mad Dok
Da Boss Zagstruck
Big Mek on bike
Pain Boy on bike
21 mega nobz multiple w/ kombi skorcha/rokkit
65+ Nobs
25+ Tank Bustas
15 kammandos
30+ Burna Boyz
50+ shoota boys
170+ slugga boys
10+ big shoota
130+ gretchin w/ runtherd
2 burna bommer
12 defdkoptas
40 warbikers
2 wartrakk
5 warbuggy
45 storm boyz
5 trukks
5 battlewagons
4 deff dread
15 killa kans
45 lootas
Gorkanaught
morkanaught
stompa
ghazghkull
1 looted wagon
3 lobba
3 kannon
3 zapp gun

I think that's everything.

I think the HoW hit from all that charging at something would probably table an army on its own.

Singleton Mosby wrote:
Nice army! Is it all painted up?

Roughly a third is

The Issue I see with orks is not lack of competitiveness. It's the same issue that other horde armies have. Hordes cost too much money - take ages to paint - are not fun to play or play against (moving 200+ mods a turn is not fun). You can block most of the board out with 6-7 point boys that crush everything they touch in CC with so many dice it doesn't matter how quality their stats are.

I tell you what. Orks can get some love after Sisters do. You just a got a new codex which is perfectly functional and reasonably competitive in my opinion and a supplement (I'm not sure how good it really is). What more could you really want except some replacement models for your aging ones and an actual plastic deffkopta sold in a multi-model box? Sisters need the treatment much more so than Orks do. Chaos Marines, Dark Angels, and Astra Militarum coudl also use some more love as well since we are wishlisting though.

With things like the Wyvern in the game, this edition really isn't one that favors hoard style armies.

On the competitive level orks are bottom tier sadly.

The LVO is next weekend and will guessno ork makes top 10 or maybe not even top 20.

I like to play campaigns and story games. But it be nice to be able to also have a chance at a competitive tournament.

The green tibe, probably our most competitive build , is still not that great. One giant unit is great, but it doesn't even have OS.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
On the competitive level orks are bottom tier sadly.

The LVO is next weekend and will guessno ork makes top 10 or maybe not even top 20.

I like to play campaigns and story games. But it be nice to be able to also have a chance at a competitive tournament.

The green tibe, probably our most competitive build , is still not that great. One giant unit is great, but it doesn't even have OS.

The Stompa can be competitive. Mek Gunz can also be particularly brutal.

 Xenomancers wrote:
The Issue I see with orks is not lack of competitiveness. It's the same issue that other horde armies have. Hordes cost too much money - take ages to paint - are not fun to play or play against (moving 200+ mods a turn is not fun). You can block most of the board out with 6-7 point boys that crush everything they touch in CC with so many dice it doesn't matter how quality their stats are.

That is highly subjective. I love playing with a lot of models. And in many many cases, my opponents here enjoy fighting a hoard because nothing is more fun that blasting handfuls of models off the table in a single turn. Orks are just fun to play, fun to paint.

Also, yes, we can block the board. That is our strength. While other armies are better at blasting gak off the board, we deny you any way to win the game. We'll take all the objectives while the rest of the armies play the gunline game. And if you get close, we crush you. Simple as that.

Honestly, I find gunline armies boring as sin to play.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
On the competitive level orks are bottom tier sadly.

The LVO is next weekend and will guessno ork makes top 10 or maybe not even top 20.

I like to play campaigns and story games. But it be nice to be able to also have a chance at a competitive tournament.

The green tibe, probably our most competitive build , is still not that great. One giant unit is great, but it doesn't even have OS.

Don't need OS when you are so huge no one can take the objective. And it doesn't matter even if it was. You can only hold one objective per unit, so it's not like you can span the tide out to capture three objectives with just one unit. But you CAN deny those other ones with your sheer size, and merely choose a different objective to claim when you get better cards.

So how effective would an all or mostly vehicle Ork list be ?

The Imperial Answer wrote:
So how effective would an all or mostly vehicle Ork list be ?

I've had mixed luck with it. It's a tricky option because not many people really expect a new fully armored list from Orks. Against my local Tau player and Necron player in my past two games with them, they brought a lot of anti infantry weaponry, expecting me to play my usual hoard mentality, but I mixed it up and brought Kanz, Dreads, a Naught and plenty of Battle Wagons with dudes inside. Won both games because they just didn't have the tools to deal.

Necrons, even with their universal 6 to wound/glance couldn't put out enough 6's to take everything out.

Melevolence wrote:

The Imperial Answer wrote:
So how effective would an all or mostly vehicle Ork list be ?

I've had mixed luck with it. It's a tricky option because not many people really expect a new fully armored list from Orks. Against my local Tau player and Necron player in my past two games with them, they brought a lot of anti infantry weaponry, expecting me to play my usual hoard mentality, but I mixed it up and brought Kanz, Dreads, a Naught and plenty of Battle Wagons with dudes inside. Won both games because they just didn't have the tools to deal.

Necrons, even with their universal 6 to wound/glance couldn't put out enough 6's to take everything out.

Interesting. I've heard claims that taking a lot of high armor value vehicles against the Tau can make a difference. The only downside is taking a full vehicle list will usually leave you out-numbered (Though this may work to your advantage if you're fielding units like the Gorkanaut which is said to love hoards).

The Imperial Answer wrote:
Doesn't that describe Kommandos ? I think in the old lore it mentioned they used badly painted camouflage in their ambushes.

Kommandos paint themselves purple.

Ain't you'z evuh seen a purple ork, ya git? No? That's cuz purple makes you'z DEAD SNEAKY.

 j31c3n wrote:

The Imperial Answer wrote:
Doesn't that describe Kommandos ? I think in the old lore it mentioned they used badly painted camouflage in their ambushes.

Kommandos paint themselves purple.

Ain't you'z evuh seen a purple ork, ya git? No? That's cuz purple makes you'z DEAD SNEAKY.

So Kommandos use this strategy then ?

Basically.

I think, if anything, I'd like Orks to get a halfway decent vehicle. I love the Naughts due to how Orky they look, but I feel like they were a hugely missed opportunity. They are just a bigger, slightly more durable Deff Dread and didn't get any special rules to make them truly enticing to take. Hell, even the formation for them is garbage.

I'd love for either a nice, big battle tank that is actually fearsome, or a fearsome MC. Perhaps an actual plastic Squiggoth that isn't terribad rule wise.

If we don't get new models, which I'd still be OK with, I'd like us to get some Formations that are good. We have a few good ones, but most so far are just aweful compared to what the other armies are getting. Fluffy, perhaps, but not functional enough to be worth it. I know if GW actually tries, they can make stuff both fluffy, and playable. As it is, most is only one of those two.

Melevolence wrote:
I think, if anything, I'd like Orks to get a halfway decent vehicle. I love the Naughts due to how Orky they look, but I feel like they were a hugely missed opportunity. They are just a bigger, slightly more durable Deff Dread and didn't get any special rules to make them truly enticing to take. Hell, even the formation for them is garbage.

They are also over-costed. Even for an AV 13/13/12 vehicle.

The Imperial Answer wrote:

Melevolence wrote:
I think, if anything, I'd like Orks to get a halfway decent vehicle. I love the Naughts due to how Orky they look, but I feel like they were a hugely missed opportunity. They are just a bigger, slightly more durable Deff Dread and didn't get any special rules to make them truly enticing to take. Hell, even the formation for them is garbage.

They are also over-costed. Even for an AV 13/13/12 vehicle.

True enough, expensive with very little in the way of upgrades. Though, I'll be honest and say my anecdotal evidence has my Morkanaught doing very well in my meta. The larger blanket for the KFF is much appreciated, and it often attracts far too much gunfire, even often times desperation shots from things that can barely hurt it at all. Or, if it goes ignored, they regret it later with a S10 Ap1 Klaw wrecking their vehicles or infantry.

IMO nothing screwed us over as badly or felt quite so much like a 'fu' as the changes to the mob rule.

The most recent codex took a book 3 editions old and screwed it up and nerfed it, when there was no need for either.

I remain hopeful for a supplement that actually fixes orks from GW (fat chance) or a decent playable list with items or rules to amend the moral from FW (more likely, their stuff has been top quality in the last couple of years).

I am FED UP with bringing my orks to games to be someone else's expensive npc kills. At the end of 5th I was top of my game, even holding ground against Grey Knights and beating the snot out of marine armies, nowadays it's show up to be shot the hell to pieces and go home again.

Melevolence wrote:

The Imperial Answer wrote:

Melevolence wrote:
I think, if anything, I'd like Orks to get a halfway decent vehicle. I love the Naughts due to how Orky they look, but I feel like they were a hugely missed opportunity. They are just a bigger, slightly more durable Deff Dread and didn't get any special rules to make them truly enticing to take. Hell, even the formation for them is garbage.

They are also over-costed. Even for an AV 13/13/12 vehicle.

True enough, expensive with very little in the way of upgrades. Though, I'll be honest and say my anecdotal evidence has my Morkanaught doing very well in my meta. The larger blanket for the KFF is much appreciated, and it often attracts far too much gunfire, even often times desperation shots from things that can barely hurt it at all. Or, if it goes ignored, they regret it later with a S10 Ap1 Klaw wrecking their vehicles or infantry.

Interestingly if you put a Bigmek that has the Mega Force Field from the Ghazghkull supplement in or near one, it can give it a 4+ save.

It would be nice if they gave them the effigy rule. I find it odd that they are built as effigies to the Ork gods ,like the Stompa, but lack the appropriate trait for it.

To me, it seems like the answer to the Mob Rule change is the Green Tide formation led by a Warboss with the Big Bosspole (from the Ghazghkull supplement). Combined with a CAD or Ork Horde detachment, you can get a Warboss or Big Mek with Da Lukky Stikk as well as a Painboy for FNP. Or upgrade the Painboy to Mad Doc Grotsnik for belts-and-braces approach to Fearless. Add Lobbas, Lootas, Deffkoptas, Warbikes, etc. to taste to support the Tide.

You're then talking about a 100+ model blob with Fearless, Feel No Pain, +1 WS from DLS, Stampede, Furious Charge, etc.

Seems legit!

The Imperial Answer wrote:

Melevolence wrote:

The Imperial Answer wrote:
So how effective would an all or mostly vehicle Ork list be ?

I've had mixed luck with it. It's a tricky option because not many people really expect a new fully armored list from Orks. Against my local Tau player and Necron player in my past two games with them, they brought a lot of anti infantry weaponry, expecting me to play my usual hoard mentality, but I mixed it up and brought Kanz, Dreads, a Naught and plenty of Battle Wagons with dudes inside. Won both games because they just didn't have the tools to deal.

Necrons, even with their universal 6 to wound/glance couldn't put out enough 6's to take everything out.

Interesting. I've heard claims that taking a lot of high armor value vehicles against the Tau can make a difference. The only downside is taking a full vehicle list will usually leave you out-numbered (Though this may work to your advantage if you're fielding units like the Gorkanaut which is said to love hoards).

It can, yes. Just don't take TOO much armor. We played a 2K point game. My armor against the Tau was Blitz Brigade. Two of the Wagons were full of shoota boyz, one holding a Warboss with Dead Shiny Shoota for extra shots. Two wagons were empty but fitted with Kill Kannonz, the last was carrying a maxed squad of Slugga Boyz with a Mega Boss/Painboy combo. I also brought my Bomma for some air support as well, with some Kanz holding an objective or two with a few trukks of Boyz in them to hold objectives while my wagons demanded attention. Lastly, a Morkanaught was center field, protecting the wagons with the KFF.

By the end of turn five, he managed to only immobilize 3 of the wagons, pop 1 of the kannon wagons, glance the naught once, kill 15 of the 40 shoota boyz and company, killed the squad of melee boyz but it took 2 turns of dedicated fire to get through a MA Lucky Stick boss. I just had to keep putting pressure on his troops and stealth suits, pretty much ignored his devil fish, a few of his crisis suits and HQ combo being a bit troublesome in the end.

But with so much protection to fight through before even getting to the meat of my army really helped and won me the game. It's near impossible to shake a AV14 vehicle and its 20 occupants off an objective, especially with an invul on top of that.

When it comes to Unbound, how do Orks function ?

They seem like one of the codices that could utilize unbound handily on the table.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
On the competitive level orks are bottom tier sadly.

The LVO is next weekend and will guessno ork makes top 10 or maybe not even top 20.

Are you ready to bet a stompa on this?

Orks can still hold their own, and can pull off some pretty hilarious gak.

I don't play Orks any more, but I play against them from time to time. Played right they can give you a rough fight