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Someone post the exact wording on the Detachment rules if possible and whether it says units or models. If it says models then that's a issue.

Not sure what you mean? What do you need to know in regards to the detachment rules?

Quick question (as I am not near my BRB atm);

I have been building a harle styled DE/CWE army for a little while - ( Gave GW the finger when the harle rumours started to appear )

I want to incoporate a couple of the formations, most likely the troupe +DJ+SS, along with the solo, DJ, SS.
Can I take these alongside CWE and DE? I can't remember if there is an allies limit? I have the sad panda feeling its 1 isn't it?
If so is the only other way to run unbound? As ideally I would like to run CAD on my DE for the Obsec on my troops and DT's.



regarding the Harle dex;
I like the look of the troupe + DJ and Seer. Giving the seer the MoS, adding in a DE archon, or even succubus for AoM with a raider seems a nice combo. I'd potentially use it as a DS Powerhouse, you can reserve and come in with plenty of gunboats with your DE, while dropping this bad boy either a little further out - aiming for the next turn charge on something you want dead, or drop it in range and try and force those LD checks and throw out a PsyScream.

The only gripe I see is that the DJ's ability greatly depends on landing a wound, so with AP5 best used on something more hordie.

You can take both formations alongside an Eldar, DE or anyone-else army; there's no longer a limit on how many detachments or factions your force may include.

 Paradigm wrote:
You can take both formations alongside an Eldar, DE or anyone-else army; there's no longer a limit on how many detachments or factions your force may include.

Thanks Paradigm

On my way to work this morning, I was running through ideas for a Harlie Star. Here's what I was thinking:

Troupe x 12
Shadowseer x 3 (all ML2)
Spiritseer x 2

Obviously, I'd be running an Eldar CAD alongside this to access the Spiritseers, probably using Windriders for cheap troops. This also gives me the option to ally in a Hemlock or Crimson Hunter.

The Troupe is equipped with Embrace x5, Kiss x6, and Power Sword and a Haywire Grenade on the Troupe Master. One Shadowseer has the Mask.

If you really wanted to go all out (probably couldn't do it short of 2000 points), you would add Starmist Raiment to the Troupe Master and take the full masque detachment (with re-rolling 1s).

All the Shadowseers roll on Sanctic until you get Sanctuary, Hammerhand and/or Gate (at least 2 of 3). If you get everything you need before rolling on the third shadowseer, you can switch to telepathy or phantasmancy. The Spiritseers roll on Telepathy and fish for Invisibility. If you don't get Invisibility by your third roll, switch to Runes of Battle and grab Conceal.

Basically, the ideas is to cast Sanctuary and Invisibility on the unit, Gate it to where it needs to be, and then run into cover. If you have the Starmist Raiment on the Troupe Master, he stands in front. If you have the full masque detachment, you have an invisible unit with a 2++ re-rollable invuln.

Next turn, cast Hammerhand and Sanctuary on the unit and charge something. You'll be hitting with 5D3 S6 HoW attacks, followed by 43 S6 regular attacks (5 of which are AP3 from the Power Sword), 6 S6 AP2 attacks from the Kisses, and 12 S8 AP2(?) attacks from the Shadowseers. Things will die. Large numbers of things.

Two immediate problems:

1. Very dependent on psychic powers. You may need to reserve the unit to protect it against alpha strikes so you have a shot at getting your powers off.

2. It will kill anything it hits so effectively that it will almost always be open to shooting during the opponents' turn. Thus, you will need Invisibility/Sanctuary/Conceal even on turns you have a guaranteed charge.

Just thought I'd throw that one out there.

You don't need conceal potentially thanks to the powers available to the shadow seers... And you can run Iyanden rather than standard eldar to access up to 5 spirit seers from 1 HQ!

an interesting death star, although like you said with the variety of 6's IDing and AP2 and such your more than likely going to kill everything, the only issue is that the majority of times you gate it is going to take 2 turns in order to charge, I simply have the feeling a mobile army will upon realising what your playing simply spread out and start to attempt to kite.

Thats not to say that you wont get things in CC, but its not like you can simply gate and blow them away with screams (although you could potentially go that route). Using LD debuffs to make them really nasty.

I would potentially drop a few troupe members to save points and the overkill, because lets be honest if you get into CC and 'accidentally' not wipe them in 1 turn, this is only a benefit. So making the unit borderline overkill would be the aim, where your strong enough to kill everything effectively, but occasionally sticking it out 2 turns. Thus ensuring in 2 turns you wipe them.

I ran the numbers, and that deathstar is 710 points. Ouch. Still, that leaves you with 1140 to build the rest of the army at 1850. I like the idea of more spiritseers, but I sort of balk at the possibility of putting even more points into the one unit.

On the other problems - yes, you will have to wait at least one turn to charge, but you could potentially shoot some Psychic Screams at them if you have any warp charge left over (not likely). If they try to kite you, you could use Death Jesters to try to push them back where you want them to go. You can also use your skimmers to box them in, but that's not going to stop enemy skimmers from just flying right over you. And it's not like the unit can be tarpitted since it has hit and run.

Cutting 4 Harlequins saves 80 points, and might be worth it, as might be cutting the Power Sword on the Troupe Master and just going with a Kiss/Caress. That brings it to a more manageable (but still expensive) 620 points.

I'd like to see what would happen with this unit vs. a green tide!

Ill probably use a fire prism and Crimson hunter with my Harlequins. Ill paint them up right of course but they will help my anti vehicle options for sure.

 Swastakowey wrote:
Ill probably use a fire prism and Crimson hunter with my Harlequins. Ill paint them up right of course but they will help my anti vehicle options for sure.

I like Fire Prisms, but why not War Walkers if you're going this route? You could put Harlequin heads on the Guardian pilots, and then you would have the "Harlequin Dreadnoughts" of old.

Doesnt fit the whole speed theme. I cant imagine warwarlkers looking very harlequiny without heaps of work.

Although a squad of them is superior to a prism, a prism can still do the job.

I couldnt bring myself to go the vyper route.

Is it legal to have unbound allies and a formation?

Sure, if you're going unbound you can use whatever you want, so you can be part-unbound and part bound. You just won't gain any command benefits for the portion of your force that is unbound (so no re-rolling warlord traits and running after charging with the Harlies, for example).

Cool so bound harlequins with unbound allies will be perfect for me.

 Asmodas wrote:
Sure, if you're going unbound you can use whatever you want, so you can be part-unbound and part bound. You just won't gain any command benefits for the portion of your force that is unbound (so no re-rolling warlord traits and running after charging with the Harlies, for example).

This is not correct.

Your force is one or the other - bound follows the detachments rules while unbound does not. If ANY portion of your force is unbound then its an unbound list

Indeed, the only thing you can get benefits from in an unbound list is formations, any detachments, and the list has to be bound.

 Massaen wrote:

 Asmodas wrote:
Sure, if you're going unbound you can use whatever you want, so you can be part-unbound and part bound. You just won't gain any command benefits for the portion of your force that is unbound (so no re-rolling warlord traits and running after charging with the Harlies, for example).

This is not correct.

Your force is one or the other - bound follows the detachments rules while unbound does not. If ANY portion of your force is unbound then its an unbound list

My apologies, you are correct. What I thought Swastakowey was asking about was whether you could run a formation alongside an unbound force, which I believe is fine. My response was too broadly worded, however - so broadly worded that it was incorrect.

Anyway, let's keep this thread going. We are starting to fall off the first page of the tactics section.

Anyone get any games in with Harlies yet? I'm interested to hear what people's experiences with them are. I personally am going to take some time before my force is ready, as I am a stickler for only playing with what I've got painted. I may start with the small formation of ICs, as that is something that I can slot into my Eldar pretty easily, and I've got the Death Jester and Shadowseer all painted up (finecast versions, although I just finished the Shadowseer last week as she had been sitting in my "to do" box for a long time, and then I got inspired to actually paint her once the Harlequin rumors first popped up). That leaves just the Solitaire, which is something I should be able to do in a rather short amount of time.

I will be having a game this sunday.

I will be using:

3 transports
2 harly squads of 5
1 harly squad of 6
1 of each special character
4 jetbikes with haywire
1 Heavy support

1 crimson hunter
1 fireprism

I will be fighting a necron army. I will use a mix of kisses and embrace weapons.

I will let you guys know how it goes... Any tips...

Take advantage of the fact that despite being tough as nails , Necron's are really weak against psychic abilities there is also only a few units that are Fearless, Wraiths , Praetorians, etc...

You'll face Wraiths definitely, I'd equip with a Mask of Secrets and go level 2 with the Psyker, rolling almost exclusively on Phantas to try and get the anti-invisibility, the one regarding the needing 6s to hit will basically neuter the Wraiths units.

The crazy Mind War ability even though they have LD 10 can get that reduce to 8 and punish Characters with that.


The Mask will also benefit you in the -2 with the Death Jester will give you some bonuses as well.

Yep, mask is in the list. As is the level 2 shadowseer.

He has 6 wraiths, which will be a huge pain to fight.

My list qualifies for the run and charge formation though doesnt it? I wasnt sure if having all the transports negates that.

I think it's a unbound list but you could fix that fairly easily.

What's the easiest way to get a Shadowseer into a Dark Eldar force? They seem like the perfect IC to join with Incubi, having good stats but more importantly granting Fearless and Hit'n'run. By turn 3 Incubi have Furious Charge, meaning 3 Str 5 AP 2 attacks each, I can only be a good move to give them hit'n'run with that kind of attack power charge dependent.

I currently own a Troupe (The old ones) and a Shadowseer but that's it. How can i get them into my army without going unbound?

Bound or buy a lot of troupes...

To just get characters you need the troupes which allow you leeway in elites. But they require like 3 troupes each. the other formations that are smaller only allow for the elites to go solo or permanently attach to one troupe.

You could just ally in a Spirit Seer and roll on the Eldar Runes of Battle, then add in a Jetbike unit then that'd all be battleforged..Speaking of which Runes of Battle is pretty good for Harlequins plus the Spirit Seers can keep up with the Harlequins because they have fleet.

You won't be able to even get away from a unit of Harlequins w/ Quicken on it, D6+ 3 " and get's to charge afterwards? Okay. I mean I guess yeah you could go with a Farseer, but why bother.

Divination makes harlequins silly in regards to damage output...

Yeah, that is true. I like the idea of Runes of battle with Harlequins, there's some good stuff in there. Horrify is particularly nasty in combination with Shriek and the mask.

Plus their all 1 Warp Charge.

What's the verdict on the competitiveness of Harlequins? I love them, not sure if they're tournament capable.

As allies they can be great in my opinion. They blend well with the Eldar forces especially.

But standalone would not hold up well at all.

My opinion, allies or nothing for tournament.

 Asmodas wrote:

 Bhazakhain wrote:
It's a bit of a shame about the SSs miststave. I don't quite understand where the concussive USR helps Harlequins with their high initiative. Unless it's fighting an even higher initiative, tough unit, like a daemon?

It does seem pretty niche, but it works with Blind pretty well. Shards of Light, Swooping Hawks with Sunrifle Exarch and Wraithknight shield all come to mind, but in all of these cases, you would need to concuss them and then hit and run out before using the ability (except for the WK, but that is something that can't really be counted on anyway).

The big use for it would seem to be for sweeping advances.

I had not even thought of sweeping advance. That is exactly what it is for. Seems obvious now and thanks for mentioning. Value increased for me.

HD300 wrote:
What's the verdict on the competitiveness of Harlequins? I love them, not sure if they're tournament capable.

Still way to early to tell. Being as almost every single harlequin detachment that is likely to be used will be nearly identical, their synergy with allies is what's going to determine their worth. Pretty much anything besides Heroes and Company will result in ~650 worth of mandatory points, leaving your only real options to diversify your harlequin army from others is which elites you take, and there it's hard to go wrong. Something's going to turn out to be optimal (guessing shadowseer spam), but the choices are all pretty good in the elites slot.

DE are likely to be the best allies, as they compliment all of the Harlequins weakness' well. Harlies are expensive, DE are cheap. Harlies have no AA, DE have one of the best fliers in the game. Harlies have few good AT options, DE have some very good options. The whiners in the DE thread will tell you differently on the AT comment, but 3 Razorwings and 3 Scourges will handle most high AV armies just fine.

CWE don't fair as well. They are expensive like Harlies, and their AA is ok. CWE's AT is great, but also expensive. After your Harlie detachment, you're not going to have enough points to spam AA and AT options. You'll need to decide which is the bigger threat (with flyrants everywhere atm, AA) and go with that. Even then, the remainder of what you bring (troops/HQ) isn't going to be enough to contribute significantly.

That's theorycraft so far, as I haven't gotten any games in yet. But I've been playing CWE/DE long enough to know what their strengths and weaknesses are, and the Harlie codex is really straight forward. Harlies are missles to be point and shot at units to make them dissapear, and I think DE have the best tools to make sure they get to chewy ground targets that they are made for.