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How much more expensive is playing HH compared to regular 40k? What are the perks? What are the downsides? How do you find the rules? What would you need to start a playable army?

That is all.

1. More expensive as you need Forge World models. But depending on size, the magnitude of that can vary. You can also offset the cost with normal marine models, since they are just Marines. You willneed to convert or buy forge world for the bigger or more unique stuff.

2. It plays exactly like 40k with a different twist on armies. They are all marines (except for Mechanicum or Solar Auxilia), and so the balance is a little more firm, as there is less spread of what can be in armies.

3. Pretty much the same as normal 40k.

4. The rules are 40k rules. You find army specific rules in the HH rulebooks.

5. Like any other army, you'll want the book and some models.

Basically what curran12 said, except:
2. Personally I find the heresy stuff much more fun. It's vastly better written than 40k and if you're worried about it being boring because it's all marines or feeling hemmed in by having to stick to established fluff, there is sooooo much scope for doing what you want; alternate colours for a lot of the legions, every legion would've fought every way so you could have a siege raven guard force, or a close assault Ultramarines force, or whatever. There's absolutely loads of fun new weapons, equipment, special rules etc, loads more units/options in the list, most of which are worth taking. It's the only thing keeping me in GW now. Also in general the community seems... Different? To the main 40k community, in my experience it's overall more friendly, and there seems to be less WAAC stuff going on. I think part of that is that with the extra money people are spending, and the fact you can really get in and tailor the fluff for your force so well, it's more like a hobby project than just building an army, and there's more personal investment. Just generally, I know you get that with 40k and that not everyone in 40k is WAAC etc but generally it's a different atmosphere.

3: the main downside is definitely the price. You can get round it somewhat by converting, mixing in plastic bits etc, and there are pretty strong rumours that some of the core stuff like SM armours are being done in plastic by GW in a few months. Apart from price, one of the downsides for me is everything is so appealing! I've narrowed it down to like 7 legions so far and can't decide where to go...

4: you can buy the Legiones Astartes Crusade Army list book for the price of a codex which has the main army list in it, and the Istvaan Legions book (or a bundle with both) which has the rules in for the Sons of Horus, Death Guard, World Eaters, Emperors Children, Noght Lords, Iron Hands, Salamanders, Word Bearers, Raven Guard, Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists. Or you can buy the big books, but that's more expensive, although the fluff and art in them is incredible. I have the army list book and Books 2 and 3 so far, but eventually I want the others. Really looking forward to book 5 which is the Calth book.

5: another downside I forgot is that while you can play it at any points level, it's probably most balanced and fun at around 3000 points, because then you really get a feel for the legion you're playing and you can fit in lots of toys but nothing too silly. So you'll maybe want more models to start with (compounding th price issue). However you could always start with like Zone Mortalis which lets you play with smaller forces, the rules for that are in Betrayal. There's also a new HQ type that just came out at the weekender that lets you get some of the perks of a HQ that's more expensive and he seems almost designed for lower points levels.

If you're interested in starting the heresy stuff, I would reccommend the Age of Darkness section on Bolter and Chainsword. The community there is really helpful and friendly and everyone's work is really inspirational.

FW models are more expensive, but they look great. You don't need to use FW necessarily. You could use some GW models like regular marines, land Raiders, rhinos and drop pods but if you want to have a good feel and overall better army you're going to want some FW kits.

The rules to play are the same as 40k, some might argue that you'd want to use 6th edition rules instead of 7th edition.

You want to get the legion books which contain the special rules for the 30k legions. Think of them as a codex.

There's two books. The Horus Heresy Crusade Army list. This contains all the basic units for a Horus heresy legion. Your meat and potatoes units. The other book, The horus Heresy Istvann Campaign Legions contains the special rules for the legions involved in the Istvann campaign. Rules for the legions special troops, vehicles and tactics.

These two books will run you about $75
First off, they're awesome books, great quality and amazing art. They use actual models and Photoshop it in a way that makes it look like art and real. Cool concept.

Regular GW Termies are "Period correct" especially with some light conversion. Just get rid of the Crux Terminatus and you are golden.

 Inkubas wrote:
How much more expensive is playing HH compared to regular 40k?

Depends on how much you spend on 40k. If you have a starter set and some basic troops from ebay then 30k is going to be a real shock for your wallet. If you have a large 40k army with characters/FW units/etc then it won't be much of a change. The main difference in price is that 30k is designed to be played at 2-3000 points instead of 1-2000 points like 40k, so you have about 50% more models compared to a similar 40k army.

Also, many of the 30k models are legal in 40k, and most 40k models are legal in 30k. So if you already have a marine army expanding it into 30k might not cost very much.

What are the perks?

The fluff, really. The 30k marine list is an excellent example of how GW could combine all of the 40k marine armies into a single book, but that's not enough to justify playing a game. The main perk is that if you like the 30k fluff you get to use it on the tabletop. If you don't like the story or units of 30k then you probably won't enjoy the rest of the game very much.

What are the downsides?

The biggest downside is that it's a 40k variant. You're stuck with the flaws of the core 40k rules, though FW does attempt to minimize some of them (no unbound armies, stricter allies rules, no maelstrom missions, etc). The rules are still going to be that annoying thing that gets in the way of having fun, and you'll still wish FW had used a different system for 30k.

How do you find the rules?

In the books. You can buy them from the FW website.

What would you need to start a playable army?

A 30k marine army starts pretty much the same way as a 40k marine army: a HQ model and some bolter marines. Then from there you can start buying whatever specialist units you find interesting. Or, if you already have a 40k marine army, you can probably just buy the rulebook and start playing.

A 30k admech or "IG" army is harder since so many of their units have no 40k equivalent. If you're really interested in one of those then buy the rulebook first and figure out what the core of your army is going to need.

Thanks for the information. I'd imagine that each legion has different units and rules as well as play style. 3,000 points though seems daunting considering how expensive GW already is...

Well you don't have to play 3000 points, especially not straight aways, that's just the kind of sweet spot.

 Inkubas wrote:
Thanks for the information. I'd imagine that each legion has different units and rules as well as play style. 3,000 points though seems daunting considering how expensive GW already is...

But games below 2000 are common. And they have special rules for those type of games. They actually have limits on Lord of War sizes depending on game point size

Yeah Lords of War can't be more than 25% of the force. And I think you can only have one?

You could always start with a "Pride of the Legion" list, which is (IIRC) all terminators and elite troops

 Inkubas wrote:
3,000 points though seems daunting considering how expensive GW already is...

I should add that it's not quite as bad as 3000 points of 40k, since there are no horde armies (even the "IG" army is an elite army with lots of tanks) and a lot of the fun stuff can be very expensive points-wise. If you're building your army based on fluff or models you like instead of carefully optimizing your point costs it's very easy to spend 300-500 points or more on a single unit. So the total model count of a 3000 point 30k army is usually going to be quite a bit lower than a 3000 point 40k army.

I'm considering a fast army, just that I don't like raven guard aesthetically.

I like the Alpha legion rule that they can steal one unit from another's specific unit list.

But I may end up doing an Istvann 5 loyalist army. My regular troops will be a mix of the different loyalist legions. I may have several different HQs depending on what tactics to use and gives me an excuse to buy different specialist units.

 Robisagg wrote:
You could always start with a "Pride of the Legion" list, which is (IIRC) all terminators and elite troops

That's what I'd recommend, too. You can 'demote them' to normal tactical squads later, when you want the points.

Also note that there are skirmish versions of the rules in the Horus Heresy books - Zone Mortalis (essentially tunnel fighting and boarding actions), designed to be played at 500-1000 points, and Tactical Strike, a skirmish version with small, ad-hoc squads which is played at 200-300 points.

Or, you can use the 'Leviathan' force organisation chart, say "screw it" and take a titan maniple for your 3,000 point army.

Or there's the new Consul, the Delegatus who lets you take a Rite of War without taking a predator, and has a unique RoW that seems suited to smaller points games

Answers to your questions:

1. Lore is simply better - less convoluted than 40k. Also, it has more of sci fi vibe. Production quality of FW books is truly impressive. Expensive but impressive. Look up a book review on one of them, like 'Betrayal', Massacre etc
2. Perks would be..... not sure how to answer that. Either you really like the lore or its meh.
3. Downside would be cost. Marine vs marine action is a bit tedious I presume. However, non marine factions are and have been inserted. Xenos races are still applicable to 30k game FYI (eldar, orks etc)
4. The current core rules are 7th edition. specific 30k stuff is just the equivalent of army lists. Thus far the Legionnes Red book with the Istvaan red book, will give you all the info needed to play an Astartes Legion. These run 30 GBP each or you can get a bundle deal (if its still going) for 50 for the two.
5. A playable army would depend on the people around you who play 30k. What lists are they using? At the very least, start off small - 750 pts (heck, or even smaller). Using 30k tactical models for 40k games is also acceptable, so its not as though you are making an exclusive investment that is all the way outside of 40k. You can bring some if not all the models into a 7th codex space marines army (albeit some models may be proxied). Also, some people in your area may not be opposed to playing against a 30k army list - just ask them.

If you bargain shop on ebay, you can nab some decent deals. Also, if you are really wanting to be true to the fiction, you really ought to consider at what point in time in 30k you want your army to be (early crusade, mid, late...)

Granted you can fudge around with this, explaining why their armour isn't this or that - to an extent - but it will look a bit cheesy if you're intentionally doing an early crusade army with lots of terminators, heavy bolters, assault cannons, certain tanks, MK4+ armour. [At least 30k players will want to see some consistency - that's why they've invested in it after all. 40k'ers probably won't care.]

Take this as a word of caution: Proxy'ing can only go so far before you get into a gaming groove where people are bent on mechanics than playing a tabletop wargame. If you like that mindset, where miniatures don't mean that much, then disregard what I've said.

It's also wortth notig that Forge World is not the only option for 30k models, and for general bolter Marines, you can get very decent approximations of 30k armour from the likes of Anvil Industry or Kromlech. These will still run you about £20 a squad of depending on the exact makeup of parts, but can save a fair bit in the long run (that you can then spend on Forge World Elite units). They aren't going to be picture-perfect, but they will do a plenty good enough job.

When you play 30k games with your Space Marine legions, you'll really miss And They Shall Know No Fear. Ugh! :-)

a mechanicum army can be 'cheap' although i use the term VERY loosely!

a magos on and abeyant is £52
3 thallax with a special weapon cost £29
castellax cost £37 each
rulebook from ebay ~£60

so, well over £100 already...
ordo cybernetica uses castellax as troops and they can be taken singly, so a very cheap force (in points cost) can be fielded using their list.

i've enjoyed the HH immensely, i'd say it's worth getting into because FW have clearly playtested their rules and the 'new' tech is such a refreshing change.