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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/27 20:32:31
Subject: Who is the modern 'Dirt Bag' chapter?
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Regular Dakkanaut
Cadia(help)
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Marines Malevolent seem a fair guess on this one.
While on this, what seems to make a chapter stick out as an unworthy successor to the Astartes mantle?
It can't be ruthlessness alone, or the Carcharodons would be near the top. Looking at the Soul Drinkers, impetuosity seems a contributing factor.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/27 20:34:28
Subject: Who is the modern 'Dirt Bag' chapter?
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Stalwart Ultramarine Tactical Marine
California
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I'd say they are not a dirt bag chapter, they just are not heroes.
They are ran like some IG Regiments, not everybody in 40k is a hero. Some are just military groups who kill things because its their job and they don't really care about civilians.
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"Flame, hammer and blood – so is meteoric iron worked, so were the Heavenfall Blades tempered. So too shall I test the Unforgiven."
— Cypher
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/27 20:36:30
Subject: Who is the modern 'Dirt Bag' chapter?
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Regular Dakkanaut
Cadia(help)
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If renegade chapters have taught us anything, it's that any chapter can go from hero to villain. Those who aren't necessarily heroes may have a stronger inclination to become villains if left unaccountable.
So, who do you think would bear watching in 40k? What is it that would make them garner such attention?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/27 20:38:51
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/27 20:38:52
Subject: Who is the modern 'Dirt Bag' chapter?
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Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought
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A tie between the Marines Malevolent and the Soul Drinkers. Marines Malevolent are well, malevolent and are very close to being declared heretics by the Imperium- they've already lost all support of the Adeptus Mechanicus.
The Soul Drinkers meanwhile are extinct, which is a blessing considering their hysterical incompetency and being the very definition of slowed. I can't really put their stupidity and incompetency to words, besides just being proof that Ben Counter can't write worth a damn.
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“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.” |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/27 20:39:07
Subject: Who is the modern 'Dirt Bag' chapter?
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Cosmic Joe
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Shidank wrote:Marines Malevolent seem a fair guess on this one.
While on this, what seems to make a chapter stick out as an unworthy successor to the Astartes mantle?
It can't be ruthlessness alone, or the Carcharodons would be near the top. Looking at the Soul Drinkers, impetuosity seems a contributing factor.
I was starting a Marines Malevolent force before. They are total D - bags.
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Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/27 20:39:39
Subject: Who is the modern 'Dirt Bag' chapter?
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Stalwart Ultramarine Tactical Marine
California
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Space Wolves, should be have declared traitor long ago.
Did WAY more heresy then the Soul Drinkers.
For instance;
Soul Drinkers attacked a mech convo for stealing their sacred relic.
Space Puppies decapitated a grey knight grand master and pretty much delcared war on the inquisition.
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"Flame, hammer and blood – so is meteoric iron worked, so were the Heavenfall Blades tempered. So too shall I test the Unforgiven."
— Cypher
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/27 20:40:55
Subject: Who is the modern 'Dirt Bag' chapter?
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
Guelph Ontario
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The Marines Malevolent are jerks, but I'd say the Minotaurs are worse. Those guys are just the attack dogs of the High Lords and a perfect example of how awful the Imperium can be to its own people.
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Think of something clever to say. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/27 20:42:34
Subject: Who is the modern 'Dirt Bag' chapter?
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Stalwart Ultramarine Tactical Marine
California
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Arcsquad12 wrote:The Marines Malevolent are jerks, but I'd say the Minotaurs are worse. Those guys are just the attack dogs of the High Lords and a perfect example of how awful the Imperium can be to its own people.
But the Minotaurs are exactly what the imperium wants lol.
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"Flame, hammer and blood – so is meteoric iron worked, so were the Heavenfall Blades tempered. So too shall I test the Unforgiven."
— Cypher
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/27 21:10:21
Subject: Who is the modern 'Dirt Bag' chapter?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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So when are the Ultramarines going to turn renegade?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/27 21:14:02
Subject: Re:Who is the modern 'Dirt Bag' chapter?
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Regular Dakkanaut
Cadia(help)
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Que?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/27 21:18:54
Subject: Re:Who is the modern 'Dirt Bag' chapter?
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Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
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@ C Shaffer.
Space Puppies decapitated a grey knight grand master and pretty much delcared war on the inquisition.
Considering the situation, the Sons of Russ are considered by many as bally Heros for what they did!
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Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
>Raptors Lead the Way < |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/27 21:25:37
Subject: Re:Who is the modern 'Dirt Bag' chapter?
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Stalwart Ultramarine Tactical Marine
California
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Zakiriel wrote:@ C Shaffer.
Space Puppies decapitated a grey knight grand master and pretty much delcared war on the inquisition.
Considering the situation, the Sons of Russ are considered by many as bally Heros for what they did!
Lets do the math.
Save some humans (we have trillions)
Kill Grey Knights. (Sacrifice thousands to create armor/bullets/ect so the cost is already factored in and the imperium is willing to pay it.
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"Flame, hammer and blood – so is meteoric iron worked, so were the Heavenfall Blades tempered. So too shall I test the Unforgiven."
— Cypher
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/27 21:26:16
Subject: Re:Who is the modern 'Dirt Bag' chapter?
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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Zakiriel wrote:@ C Shaffer.
Space Puppies decapitated a grey knight grand master and pretty much delcared war on the inquisition.
Considering the situation, the Sons of Russ are considered by many as bally Heros for what they did!
if you ignore that they called the grey knights in, knowing damn well what they'd do. and then acting like pertulant children when the inevitable happened.
Besides the Inqusition doesn't do that type of stuff for fun, and given their vaster experiance in dealing with the clean up, I'll argue that type of stuff proably IS nesscarily. the space wolves never have to actually do the post battle clean up.
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/27 21:46:04
Subject: Re:Who is the modern 'Dirt Bag' chapter?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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BrianDavion wrote: Zakiriel wrote:@ C Shaffer.
Space Puppies decapitated a grey knight grand master and pretty much delcared war on the inquisition.
Considering the situation, the Sons of Russ are considered by many as bally Heros for what they did!
if you ignore that they called the grey knights in, knowing damn well what they'd do. and then acting like pertulant children when the inevitable happened.
Besides the Inqusition doesn't do that type of stuff for fun, and given their vaster experiance in dealing with the clean up, I'll argue that type of stuff proably IS nesscarily. the space wolves never have to actually do the post battle clean up.
Grey Knights aren't supposed to do the post battle clean up on THAT scale, either. Several of them were getting annoyed at being used for it when they should be fighting demons, instead.
(at any rate, though Lorgar beheaded that Grey Knight, IIRC that was after that Grey Knight already blew up two ships WITH ALL HANDS ON BOARD lost. That's a lot of dead Space Wolves and chapter serfs...)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/27 21:47:45
Subject: Re:Who is the modern 'Dirt Bag' chapter?
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Regular Dakkanaut
Cadia(help)
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The Space Wolves were responding to a broken oath of parley. They were within their rights to execute the offending captain.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/27 21:57:22
Subject: Re:Who is the modern 'Dirt Bag' chapter?
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Member of the Malleus
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TiamatRoar wrote:BrianDavion wrote: Zakiriel wrote:@ C Shaffer.
Space Puppies decapitated a grey knight grand master and pretty much delcared war on the inquisition.
Considering the situation, the Sons of Russ are considered by many as bally Heros for what they did!
if you ignore that they called the grey knights in, knowing damn well what they'd do. and then acting like pertulant children when the inevitable happened.
Besides the Inqusition doesn't do that type of stuff for fun, and given their vaster experiance in dealing with the clean up, I'll argue that type of stuff proably IS nesscarily. the space wolves never have to actually do the post battle clean up.
Grey Knights aren't supposed to do the post battle clean up on THAT scale, either. Several of them were getting annoyed at being used for it when they should be fighting demons, instead.
(at any rate, though Lorgar beheaded that Grey Knight, IIRC that was after that Grey Knight already blew up two ships WITH ALL HANDS ON BOARD lost. That's a lot of dead Space Wolves and chapter serfs...)
Actually if you really look at the months of shame post Armageddon, The grey knights were just following the orders of an overzealous inquisitor, who may or may not have been a heretic.
The grey knigths that were killed were a huge loss, but it wasn't because the Grey Knights were being petulant or selfish. they were purging possibly tainted populations because the inquisitor told them to. and at that point in the fluff they are the chamber militant of the Ordo Malleus which means the inquisitor was their commanding officer. That story is about morality versus safty.
Anyway if i had to pick a bad boy/ duchebag chapter it would have to be the Minotaurs. they are known for specifically killing other marines.
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The Emperor Protects
Strike Force Voulge led by Lord Inquisitor Severus Vaul: 7000 points painted
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/27 21:58:10
Subject: Re:Who is the modern 'Dirt Bag' chapter?
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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
Inside Yvraine
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Marines Malevolent, Iron Hands and Flesh Tearers are all pretty douchey. Automatically Appended Next Post: CShaffer wrote: Space Puppies decapitated a grey knight grand master and pretty much delcared war on the inquisition.
Logan Grimnar did that explicitly after the Grey Knights wiped out a Space Wolves ship, with Space Wolves inside of it. Don't you think it's a bit... disingenuous, to conveniently leave out the context?
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/27 22:00:22
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/27 22:03:36
Subject: Re:Who is the modern 'Dirt Bag' chapter?
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Stalwart Ultramarine Tactical Marine
California
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BlaxicanX wrote:Marines Malevolent, Iron Hands and Flesh Tearers are all pretty douchey.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CShaffer wrote:
Space Puppies decapitated a grey knight grand master and pretty much delcared war on the inquisition.
Logan Grimnar did that explicitly after the Grey Knights wiped out a Space Wolves ship, with Space Wolves inside of it.
Don't you think it's a bit... disingenuous, to conveniently leave out the context?
Does not matter.
Inquisition is the highest authority, anything done on their command supersedes any right for resistance.
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"Flame, hammer and blood – so is meteoric iron worked, so were the Heavenfall Blades tempered. So too shall I test the Unforgiven."
— Cypher
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/27 22:07:40
Subject: Re:Who is the modern 'Dirt Bag' chapter?
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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
Inside Yvraine
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Yes it does. You're attempting to paint the Wolves as being the aggressors in the situation when they clearly weren't. Their protest against the Inquisition/Grey Knights was entirely peaceful until the Grey Knights started killing Space Wolves, at which point the Wolves retaliated. "b-but the Inquisition said!" is irrelevant for the purposes of this discussion, since it's an out-of-character discussion and the Inquisition is a fallible (and inconsistent) organization. If the Space Wolves are "dirt-bags" for going against the Inquisitions' orders, then you would have to concede that Gaunt, Eisenhorn, Ravenor and every other hero of the Imperium who's defied the Inquisition is as well.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/27 22:08:34
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/27 22:10:48
Subject: Re:Who is the modern 'Dirt Bag' chapter?
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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BlaxicanX wrote: Don't you think it's a bit... disingenuous, to conveniently leave out the context? What do you expect its the inquisition   Edit: VVVVV That is the best thing i read all day today. (its giving me the mental image of a chapter master with a big wario mustache
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/27 22:13:22
Unit1126PLL wrote: Scott-S6 wrote:And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.
Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/27 22:11:58
Subject: Who is the modern 'Dirt Bag' chapter?
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[MOD]
Solahma
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The Marines Malevolent are almost lovably absurd. They are like Wario Marines.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/27 22:18:35
Subject: Who is the modern 'Dirt Bag' chapter?
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Regular Dakkanaut
Cadia(help)
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Manchu wrote:The Marines Malevolent are almost lovably absurd. They are like Wario Marines.
Quite possibly the best depiction of the Marines Malevolent I have ever heard. Well done.
Minotaurs are a BIT on the douche side with as much as they love killing marines, aren't they?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/27 22:18:53
Subject: Re:Who is the modern 'Dirt Bag' chapter?
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Stalwart Ultramarine Tactical Marine
California
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BlaxicanX wrote:Yes it does. You're attempting to paint the Wolves as being the aggressors in the situation when they clearly weren't. Their protest against the Inquisition/Grey Knights was entirely peaceful until the Grey Knights started killing Space Wolves, at which point the Wolves retaliated.
"b-but the Inquisition said!" is irrelevant for the purposes of this discussion, since it's an out-of-character discussion and the Inquisition is a fallible (and inconsistent) organization. If the Space Wolves are "dirt-bags" for going against the Inquisitions' orders, then you would have to concede that Gaunt, Eisenhorn, Ravenor and every other hero of the Imperium who's defied the Inquisition is as well.
But its not irrelevant, they are a chamber militant of the inquisition, They do as the inquisition says. The inquisition is law.
No ifs and or buts.
If the imperial guard lands on your planet and blows stuff up and you fire back your a heretic (defense is no justification to resisting the imperium.). Their is a strict hierarchy and no matter how hard the space marines try they are sub servant to the inquisition.
As the highest authority it does not matter if they spout out a load. As long the inquisition enforces it that's the law.
Turns out the imperium is grimdark. Live with it lol.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/27 22:20:19
"Flame, hammer and blood – so is meteoric iron worked, so were the Heavenfall Blades tempered. So too shall I test the Unforgiven."
— Cypher
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/27 22:23:48
Subject: Re:Who is the modern 'Dirt Bag' chapter?
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Regular Dakkanaut
Cadia(help)
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CShaffer wrote: BlaxicanX wrote:Yes it does. You're attempting to paint the Wolves as being the aggressors in the situation when they clearly weren't. Their protest against the Inquisition/Grey Knights was entirely peaceful until the Grey Knights started killing Space Wolves, at which point the Wolves retaliated.
"b-but the Inquisition said!" is irrelevant for the purposes of this discussion, since it's an out-of-character discussion and the Inquisition is a fallible (and inconsistent) organization. If the Space Wolves are "dirt-bags" for going against the Inquisitions' orders, then you would have to concede that Gaunt, Eisenhorn, Ravenor and every other hero of the Imperium who's defied the Inquisition is as well.
But its not irrelevant, they are a chamber militant of the inquisition, They do as the inquisition says. The inquisition is law.
No ifs and or buts.
If the imperial guard lands on your planet and blows stuff up and you fire back your a heretic (defense is no justification to resisting the imperium.). Their is a strict hierarchy and no matter how hard the space marines try they are sub servant to the inquisition.
As the highest authority it does not matter if they spout out a load. As long the inquisition enforces it that's the law.
Turns out the imperium is grimdark. Live with it lol.
Actually, Chapter Masters answer only to the Emperor or the High Lords of Terra.
They typically elect to go along with Inquisitors because otherwise, they're just asking for trouble later on. The Grey Knights are not necessarily subservient or dependent on the Ordo Malleus in the way the Deathwatch is answerable to the Ordo Xenos. They are a chapter and they have some of the same freedoms as other chapters. Their insanely close ties and status as military branch of Malleus makes them something of a special case.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/27 22:31:07
Subject: Re:Who is the modern 'Dirt Bag' chapter?
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Stalwart Ultramarine Tactical Marine
California
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Shidank wrote: CShaffer wrote: BlaxicanX wrote:Yes it does. You're attempting to paint the Wolves as being the aggressors in the situation when they clearly weren't. Their protest against the Inquisition/Grey Knights was entirely peaceful until the Grey Knights started killing Space Wolves, at which point the Wolves retaliated.
"b-but the Inquisition said!" is irrelevant for the purposes of this discussion, since it's an out-of-character discussion and the Inquisition is a fallible (and inconsistent) organization. If the Space Wolves are "dirt-bags" for going against the Inquisitions' orders, then you would have to concede that Gaunt, Eisenhorn, Ravenor and every other hero of the Imperium who's defied the Inquisition is as well.
But its not irrelevant, they are a chamber militant of the inquisition, They do as the inquisition says. The inquisition is law.
No ifs and or buts.
If the imperial guard lands on your planet and blows stuff up and you fire back your a heretic (defense is no justification to resisting the imperium.). Their is a strict hierarchy and no matter how hard the space marines try they are sub servant to the inquisition.
As the highest authority it does not matter if they spout out a load. As long the inquisition enforces it that's the law.
Turns out the imperium is grimdark. Live with it lol.
Actually, Chapter Masters answer only to the Emperor or the High Lords of Terra.
They typically elect to go along with Inquisitors because otherwise, they're just asking for trouble later on. The Grey Knights are not necessarily subservient or dependent on the Ordo Malleus in the way the Deathwatch is answerable to the Ordo Xenos. They are a chapter and they have some of the same freedoms as other chapters. Their insanely close ties and status as military branch of Malleus makes them something of a special case.
Fairly positive that the inquisition is above the High Lords. They sit on the council but it is the same as the commissariat, they can dome shot pretty much anybody with enough justification.
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"Flame, hammer and blood – so is meteoric iron worked, so were the Heavenfall Blades tempered. So too shall I test the Unforgiven."
— Cypher
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/27 22:37:07
Subject: Who is the modern 'Dirt Bag' chapter?
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[MOD]
Solahma
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Shidank wrote:Minotaurs are a BIT on the douche side with as much as they love killing marines, aren't they?
Most SM seem like douchenozzles to me. UM, SW, Sallies are notable exceptions. Minotaurs seem no worse to me than, for example, Novamarines (the guys who will fight you if you dare transgress Codex Astartes). Seems like Minotaurs have a bad rep (among other Marines) mostly because they are sort of crossing the picket so to speak. SM chapters seem overwhelmingly independent from the usual IoM chain of command but Minotaurs take their marching orders straight from the High Lords seemingly without question or pretense of autonomy. Getting more toys because of this is just salt in the wounds. That is how the Inquisition would like things to work. In practice, however, having carte blanche authority can be just like having no authority. Inquisitors who try to push around SM chapters better be able to back it up. It's so much more effective to do things diplomatically. Being an Inquisitor is about getting gak done; not about having a Emperor-class ego. Automatically Appended Next Post: CShaffer wrote:Fairly positive that the inquisition is above the High Lords.
That is highly debatable, considering both derive their authority directly from the Emperor.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/02/27 22:42:25
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/27 22:44:43
Subject: Re:Who is the modern 'Dirt Bag' chapter?
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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GKTiberius wrote:TiamatRoar wrote:BrianDavion wrote: Zakiriel wrote:@ C Shaffer.
Space Puppies decapitated a grey knight grand master and pretty much delcared war on the inquisition.
Considering the situation, the Sons of Russ are considered by many as bally Heros for what they did!
if you ignore that they called the grey knights in, knowing damn well what they'd do. and then acting like pertulant children when the inevitable happened.
Besides the Inqusition doesn't do that type of stuff for fun, and given their vaster experiance in dealing with the clean up, I'll argue that type of stuff proably IS nesscarily. the space wolves never have to actually do the post battle clean up.
Grey Knights aren't supposed to do the post battle clean up on THAT scale, either. Several of them were getting annoyed at being used for it when they should be fighting demons, instead.
(at any rate, though Lorgar beheaded that Grey Knight, IIRC that was after that Grey Knight already blew up two ships WITH ALL HANDS ON BOARD lost. That's a lot of dead Space Wolves and chapter serfs...)
Actually if you really look at the months of shame post Armageddon, The grey knights were just following the orders of an overzealous inquisitor, who may or may not have been a heretic.
The grey knigths that were killed were a huge loss, but it wasn't because the Grey Knights were being petulant or selfish. they were purging possibly tainted populations because the inquisitor told them to. and at that point in the fluff they are the chamber militant of the Ordo Malleus which means the inquisitor was their commanding officer. That story is about morality versus safty.
Anyway if i had to pick a bad boy/ duchebag chapter it would have to be the Minotaurs. they are known for specifically killing other marines.
Keep in mind I was refering to the Space Wolves acting like the pertulant children. they called in the Grey Knights, they KNEW what the Inqusition's MO in this case was. they just seemed to think they could bluster and demand their way past it.
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/27 22:50:20
Subject: Who is the modern 'Dirt Bag' chapter?
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Stalwart Ultramarine Tactical Marine
California
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Manchu wrote: Shidank wrote:Minotaurs are a BIT on the douche side with as much as they love killing marines, aren't they?
Most SM seem like douchenozzles to me. UM, SW, Sallies are notable exceptions. Minotaurs seem no worse to me than, for example, Novamarines (the guys who will fight you if you dare transgress Codex Astartes). Seems like Minotaurs have a bad rep (among other Marines) mostly because they are sort of crossing the picket so to speak. SM chapters seem overwhelmingly independent from the usual IoM chain of command but Minotaurs take their marching orders straight from the High Lords seemingly without question or pretense of autonomy. Getting more toys because of this is just salt in the wounds.
That is how the Inquisition would like things to work.
In practice, however, having carte blanche authority can be just like having no authority. Inquisitors who try to push around SM chapters better be able to back it up. It's so much more effective to do things diplomatically. Being an Inquisitor is about getting gak done; not about having a Emperor-class ego.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CShaffer wrote:Fairly positive that the inquisition is above the High Lords.
That is highly debatable, considering both derive their authority directly from the Emperor.
Who watchs the watchmen? Nobody lol.
Inquisition answers to itself.
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"Flame, hammer and blood – so is meteoric iron worked, so were the Heavenfall Blades tempered. So too shall I test the Unforgiven."
— Cypher
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/27 22:54:58
Subject: Who is the modern 'Dirt Bag' chapter?
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[MOD]
Solahma
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No, the Inquisition answers to the Emperor. So do the High Lords.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/27 22:55:21
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/28 01:03:09
Subject: Who is the modern 'Dirt Bag' chapter?
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Stalwart Ultramarine Tactical Marine
California
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Manchu wrote:No, the Inquisition answers to the Emperor.
So do the High Lords.
Emperor is a corpse, inquisition answers to itself.
At least until he comes back.
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"Flame, hammer and blood – so is meteoric iron worked, so were the Heavenfall Blades tempered. So too shall I test the Unforgiven."
— Cypher
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