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Wow, this is the guy that gave the overall order for the cleansing after the First War for Armageddon? Interesting. And it seems that the Space Wolves save Armageddon from Exterminatus by their presence alone!

 EngulfedObject wrote:
Wow, this is the guy that gave the overall order for the cleansing after the First War for Armageddon? Interesting. And it seems that the Space Wolves save Armageddon from Exterminatus by their presence alone!

Oh no. The inquisitor who ordered the eh... sterilization thing was killed, along with a Grey Knight Grand Master. Emil Darkhammer arrived after whoever the first Inquisitor was killed, and after seeing all the mess said "screw it, this ain't worthy it" and just did whatever he does to the ones that got away.

Now Darkhammer's got into a feud with Helynna Valeria, and technically excommunicated by Helynna, but still has some influences in the Inquisition, since no other Inquisitors, nor the Grey Knights, gave a gak about the two's little grudge.

 lcmiracle wrote:
Oh no. The inquisitor who ordered the eh... sterilization thing was killed, along with a Grey Knight Grand Master. Emil Darkhammer arrived after whoever the first Inquisitor was killed, and after seeing all the mess said "screw it, this ain't worthy it" and just did whatever he does to the ones that got away.

Now Darkhammer's got into a feud with Helynna Valeria, and technically excommunicated by Helynna, but still has some influences in the Inquisition, since no other Inquisitors, nor the Grey Knights, gave a gak about the two's little grudge.

Oh I thought this here meant he gave the overall order:

"Only on a few occasions has Darkhammer stayed his hand, most notably after the First War of Armageddon. There, he commuted an Exterminatus order to a program of mass-execution and mind-wipe, largely because he feared retaliation from the nearby Space Wolves.[2]"

I thought the original inquisitor issued pretty much the same order since Exterminatus was never mentioned.

Also I can accept the Space Wolves to be the "Dirt Bag", if by "Dirt Bag" they are despised. They certainly aren't looked with favor by other Space Marine chapters, the Ecclesiarchy doesn't like them, and at least some Inquisitors dislike making dealings with them.

It's kinda like the Inquisition. "The Inquisition watch over the Imperium - They do not care to be watched in return" (Codex: Inquisition. "The Emperor's Hand". digital)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 EngulfedObject wrote:

 lcmiracle wrote:
Oh no. The inquisitor who ordered the eh... sterilization thing was killed, along with a Grey Knight Grand Master. Emil Darkhammer arrived after whoever the first Inquisitor was killed, and after seeing all the mess said "screw it, this ain't worthy it" and just did whatever he does to the ones that got away.

Now Darkhammer's got into a feud with Helynna Valeria, and technically excommunicated by Helynna, but still has some influences in the Inquisition, since no other Inquisitors, nor the Grey Knights, gave a gak about the two's little grudge.

Oh I thought this here meant he gave the overall order:

"Only on a few occasions has Darkhammer stayed his hand, most notably after the First War of Armageddon. There, he commuted an Exterminatus order to a program of mass-execution and mind-wipe, largely because he feared retaliation from the nearby Space Wolves.[2]"

I thought the original inquisitor issued pretty much the same order since Exterminatus was never mentioned.

Well the fluff is a bit blurry, presumably the Codex: Inquisition revised the previous Inquisitor, Ghesmei Kysnaros' order -- from sterilization to exterminatus, just so Emil can reverse that order to what happened next. Kysnaros probably went on to plan his siege of Fenris, leaving Armageddon to Emil's hand. But there is no evidence of that either. Or, if could even be an Exterminatus order from another Inquisitor who arrived after Kysnaros left. Who knows.

Oh dear Russ, so many misconceptions here.

1) Yes, the Cadians and other Fortress worlds around the Eye keep the direct threat of Chaos at bay. Guess which First Founding Chapter homeworld is nearby and helps out - a LOT?
The Inquisition is there to stop the more insidious Chaos cults which keep springing up all over the Galaxy.

2) IIRC Armageddon was too important a Forge World to Exterminatus, so that was never on the table; forced mindwipe, sterilization and relocation to gulags of men who had stood bravely against the tide was what the SW objected to.

3) Neither the Wolves nor the Fenrisians worship tribal gods. They worship the Emperor (Allfather to them) and Russ, with the other Primarchs (possibly) as minor deities.

4) The Wolves do not owe anybody in the Imperium obeisance. Their oaths are to the Emperor (not his representatives!) and to Russ. Not even Logan Grimnar can just order a Wolf Lord around.

5) The Inquisition is a fractured organisation at best, and while the Space Wolves certainly made some enemies in the Inquisition, they have friends among them, too.
While the SW are the most notorious and possibly the most hardline Chapter in this regard, they are far from the only space marines who resent any Inquisitorial meddling into their affairs. (Note that this is different to responding to a plea for help or a temporary requisitioning of forces.)

6) The Ecclesiarchy has no jurisdiction on Fenris or over any space wolf (or other space marine for that matter).

 lcmiracle wrote:
Well the fluff is a bit blurry, presumably the Codex: Inquisition revised the previous Inquisitor, Ghesmei Kysnaros' order -- from sterilization to exterminatus, just so Emil can reverse that order to what happened next. Kysnaros probably went on to plan his siege of Fenris, leaving Armageddon to Emil's hand. But there is no evidence of that either. Or, if could even be an Exterminatus order from another Inquisitor who arrived after Kysnaros left. Who knows.

Yea that can happen when the fluff is revisited and revised. Either way, Emil and the rest of his faction sound like they're doing a lot more harm than good to the Imperium.

Bran Dawri wrote:
2) IIRC Armageddon was too important a Forge World to Exterminatus, so that was never on the table; forced mindwipe, sterilization and relocation to gulags of men who had stood bravely against the tide was what the SW objected to.

Indeed, this is how I remember it as well but it seems the above fluff has retconned some of it (though I thought Armageddon was a Hive World with incredible industrial output, not a Forge World). But yea, I wouldn't consider the Space Wolves a dirt bag chapter for sticking up for civilians and IG who fought Chaos.

They're "dirt baggy" simply because they're, in a word, stupid. This is a setting where reading the wrong book, seeing the wrong symbol, or witnessing the wrong sorcerous action can get your soul devoured and replaced by a world-killing daemon...

... and all these people that the Space Wolves oh-so-nobly tried to save had been through all of the above, and more. This is an effed-up setting where effed-up things happen and, when it comes to the risk of Chaos corruption, you simply cannot take those kinds of risks. "Nuke the site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure" is Standard Operating Procedure, and with good cause.

As terrible as it is, the Inquisition was looking at the "big picture". Whether Hive World or Forge World, Armageddon produces a feth-load of stuff that gets shipped to other parts of the Imperium. If even a small percentage of the population was Chaos-tainted, that could cause immeasurable harm to the Imperium as Warp-touched goods start coming out of the manufactorums of Armageddon, whether these are cogitators that subtly change the data input into them, lasrifles that never seem to fire quite straight, tanks with reluctant or (worse) fratricidal Machine Spirits, and so on.

The Imperium cannot afford to take that sort of risk... but the one resource that they are definitely in no danger of running out of is manpower. It's far easier, safer and cost-effective to wipe out every living man, woman and child on a planet and replace them with people taken from other Hive Worlds.

 Psienesis wrote:
The Imperium cannot afford to take that sort of risk... but the one resource that they are definitely in no danger of running out of is manpower. It's far easier, safer and cost-effective to wipe out every living man, woman and child on a planet and replace them with people taken from other Hive Worlds.

That may be the case but if their first option was Exterminatus then that's hardly a cost effective option (you can't simply replace a planet) and is stupid on a magnitude much larger than Space Wolves stupid.

And what imperial planet doesn't have at least some Chaotic/mutant presence? I thought Chaos was like a cancer spreading through the entirely of Imperium and permeating every level of its society.

Yes, manpower is in no danger of running out but it would be if they kept going Exterminatus on their own planets while fighting wars on all fronts. You can't cull everyone on a Hive World every time a cult shows up or sooner or later you'll run out of bodies to populate it with. Plus you can't populate a planet that's been subject to Exterminatus.

 J3f wrote:


Nope, The Sisters of Battle are an Inquisitor's first choice in destroying a renegade Space Marine Chapter. They're the only Force in the Imperium Crazy Loyal enough to challenge Space Marines in a fight. Citadel Journal 49 laid it all out in the Ordo Hereticus Strike Force, which was written during 3rd edition. The Sisters of Battle led by an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor launch a surprise attack using Drop Pods and Imperial Navy Strike Cruisers, in an effort to eliminate the Chapters leadership. Space Marines aren't asked to attack their fellow Brothers, unless they have blatantly fallen to Chaos.

I could see an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor doing this, but only because that's exactly what they would be expected to do.

To draw this conclusion from a limited pool of examples seems silly. The Imperium would use any and all available resources to destroy a renegade chapter. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

It looks like we have a list of the following candidates for DirtBag:

Carcharodons
Grey Knights
Minotaurs
Marines Malevolent


I think someone mentioned the Red Hunters too

The D-bags of the Astartes? My top three:

1. Dark Angels - no contest!

- Borderline heretic chapter (they are ready to kill other loyalists in order to keep their own secret hidden)
- Are shunned for their suspiciously close and exclusive relations with the other Unforgiven while keeping their all doors closed to the rest of the Imperium. Secret legion building, perhaps?
- The Grey Knights know their secret, but just don't care much about it, since they've noticed that it's better to use it to blackmail them.
- Still haven't killed Khârn.
- Their duty is overruled by their obsessive personal priorities. (no matter how serious the campaign they're in with other Imperial bodies, they'll just lose their cool and leave when someone mentions about the Fallen or Cypher being spotted the other side of the galaxy)

2. Minotaurs

- The bloodhounds of the High Lords, thus having better than best authority over the other Astartes, if they don't behave. (except some strong resistance from the "1st Founding Immunity" though)
- Confirmed looting of wargear from the recently destroyed Chapters.
- Not even the Inquisitors know about their whereabouts, not to mention their motives.
- Being arrogant pricks in front of the other Astartes. One of the Minotaurs insulted Calgar in front of the other later founding Ultra-descendant marine. I reckon he didn't take it well.

3. Space Wolves

- Near outcasts of the Imperium, because they are too weird and scary - even for the Inquisition.
- Co-operation with them is troublesome to say the least. The only way to make a Space Wolf to do something is to tell him not to do it.
- There are no wolves on Fenris. Those things...

 Tigramans wrote:
The D-bags of the Astartes? My top three:

1. Dark Angels - no contest!

- Borderline heretic chapter (they are ready to kill other loyalists in order to keep their own secret hidden)
- Are shunned for their suspiciously close and exclusive relations with the other Unforgiven while keeping their all doors closed to the rest of the Imperium. Secret legion building, perhaps?
- The Grey Knights know their secret, but just don't care much about it, since they've noticed that it's better to use it to blackmail them.
- Still haven't killed Khârn.
- Their duty is overruled by their obsessive personal priorities. (no matter how serious the campaign they're in with other Imperial bodies, they'll just lose their cool and leave when someone mentions about the Fallen or Cypher being spotted the other side of the galaxy)

2. Minotaurs

- The bloodhounds of the High Lords, thus having better than best authority over the other Astartes, if they don't behave. (except some strong resistance from the "1st Founding Immunity" though)
- Confirmed looting of wargear from the recently destroyed Chapters.
- Not even the Inquisitors know about their whereabouts, not to mention their motives.
- Being arrogant pricks in front of the other Astartes. One of the Minotaurs insulted Calgar in front of the other later founding Ultra-descendant marine. I reckon he didn't take it well.

3. Space Wolves

- Near outcasts of the Imperium, because they are too weird and scary - even for the Inquisition.
- Co-operation with them is troublesome to say the least. The only way to make a Space Wolf to do something is to tell him not to do it.
- There are no wolves on Fenris. Those things...

The Dark Angels aren't legion building, they are a Legion. They have always been a Legion.

 Wyzilla wrote:
The Dark Angels aren't legion building, they are a Legion. They have always been a Legion.

We are loyal adherents of the Codex Astartes, with just a few minor tweaks!

 Shidank wrote:

 J3f wrote:
Nope, The Sisters of Battle are an Inquisitor's first choice in destroying a renegade Space Marine Chapter. They're the only Force in the Imperium Crazy Loyal enough to challenge Space Marines in a fight. Citadel Journal 49 laid it all out in the Ordo Hereticus Strike Force, which was written during 3rd edition. The Sisters of Battle led by an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor launch a surprise attack using Drop Pods and Imperial Navy Strike Cruisers, in an effort to eliminate the Chapters leadership. Space Marines aren't asked to attack their fellow Brothers, unless they have blatantly fallen to Chaos.

I could see an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor doing this, but only because that's exactly what they would be expected to do.

To draw this conclusion from a limited pool of examples seems silly. The Imperium would use any and all available resources to destroy a renegade chapter. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

CJ49 actually is pretty specific that the Sisters are used in an attempt to decaptiate a Chapter command suspected of treason. It actually pretty specifically says they wouldn't try it against an entire Chapter. It also very specifically says "may" do that. Not "always" or "usually" or "first option" or anything like that. Again, it's wishful thinking and selective reading that's turned into another 40K fluff myth. That's the problem with sources most people haven't read and don't have access to.

 Psienesis wrote:
They're "dirt baggy" simply because they're, in a word, stupid. This is a setting where reading the wrong book, seeing the wrong symbol, or witnessing the wrong sorcerous action can get your soul devoured and replaced by a world-killing daemon...

... and all these people that the Space Wolves oh-so-nobly tried to save had been through all of the above, and more. This is an effed-up setting where effed-up things happen and, when it comes to the risk of Chaos corruption, you simply cannot take those kinds of risks. "Nuke the site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure" is Standard Operating Procedure, and with good cause.

As terrible as it is, the Inquisition was looking at the "big picture". Whether Hive World or Forge World, Armageddon produces a feth-load of stuff that gets shipped to other parts of the Imperium. If even a small percentage of the population was Chaos-tainted, that could cause immeasurable harm to the Imperium as Warp-touched goods start coming out of the manufactorums of Armageddon, whether these are cogitators that subtly change the data input into them, lasrifles that never seem to fire quite straight, tanks with reluctant or (worse) fratricidal Machine Spirits, and so on.

The Imperium cannot afford to take that sort of risk... but the one resource that they are definitely in no danger of running out of is manpower. It's far easier, safer and cost-effective to wipe out every living man, woman and child on a planet and replace them with people taken from other Hive Worlds.

not only that, but I've been re-reading the Emperor's Gift and the way Logan came about it was......... there's arrogant and then there's Space Wolves. the guy knew FULL WELL what standard procedure was. but then continued to bluster and tried to order the Grey Knights that "this time would be differnt" this BTW was his biggest mistake. he didn't try to play nice with the Inqusition and bring them to his side, (instead he was pretty dismissive of them honestly) instead he basicly just tries to out bluster the GKs. problem is the decision on handling the population? wasn't the GKs call. that was the Inqusitions job. the GKs where just there to kick Angrons' ass

As arrogant as Logan might have been, the Supreme Grand Master that he casually destroyed as twice as douchey.

There's a reason the Grey Knights just kind of shrugged when he got decapitated.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
As arrogant as Logan might have been, the Supreme Grand Master that he casually destroyed as twice as douchey.

There's a reason the Grey Knights just kind of shrugged when he got decapitated.

well yeah, in the end the whole Months of shame where two sides being stubbron. plenty of blame on both sides. I just tend to hold the wolves further as they should have known what would happen. That said I think what makes The Emperor's Gift one of my favorite 40k novels is.. no one's really the bad guy in that book, and both parties have a point.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 Shidank wrote:

 J3f wrote:
Nope, The Sisters of Battle are an Inquisitor's first choice in destroying a renegade Space Marine Chapter. They're the only Force in the Imperium Crazy Loyal enough to challenge Space Marines in a fight. Citadel Journal 49 laid it all out in the Ordo Hereticus Strike Force, which was written during 3rd edition. The Sisters of Battle led by an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor launch a surprise attack using Drop Pods and Imperial Navy Strike Cruisers, in an effort to eliminate the Chapters leadership. Space Marines aren't asked to attack their fellow Brothers, unless they have blatantly fallen to Chaos.

I could see an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor doing this, but only because that's exactly what they would be expected to do.

To draw this conclusion from a limited pool of examples seems silly. The Imperium would use any and all available resources to destroy a renegade chapter. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

CJ49 actually is pretty specific that the Sisters are used in an attempt to decaptiate a Chapter command suspected of treason. It actually pretty specifically says they wouldn't try it against an entire Chapter. It also very specifically says "may" do that. Not "always" or "usually" or "first option" or anything like that. Again, it's wishful thinking and selective reading that's turned into another 40K fluff myth. That's the problem with sources most people haven't read and don't have access to.

Actually the word used is "often", it's preceded by a paragraph explaining that Space Marine Chapters going Renegade is rare. It's not a matter of throwing everything at the Renegade Space Marine Chapter until they keel over, it's about doing it efficiently. Even the Imperium recognizes when the cost of doing battle is too high. If the Ecclesiarchy wanted to, they could conquer the Space Wolves by declaring Exterminatus on Fenris, but it would be a massive waste of resources.

The Sisters of Battle are the most efficient way of eliminating a Renegade chapter, the Command Structure can be assumed to include the chapter's Apothecaries dooming the Chapter to a slow death. Of course the Ordo Hereticus doesn't fight fair, they take out the chapter "from the top down", it's not just a matter of Assassinating a lone Chapter Master. If they only had to kill a couple space marines the Officio Assassinorum would be a much more efficient force.

 J3f wrote:

Actually the word used is "often", it's preceded by a paragraph explaining that Space Marine Chapters going Renegade is rare. It's not a matter of throwing everything at the Renegade Space Marine Chapter until they keel over, it's about doing it efficiently. Even the Imperium recognizes when the cost of doing battle is too high. If the Ecclesiarchy wanted to, they could conquer the Space Wolves by declaring Exterminatus on Fenris, but it would be a massive waste of resources.

While Ecclesiarchy has the influence to bring Exterminatus on Fenris, by way of convincing compelling to those who can, they have no authority to issue Eterminatus.

In fact, only the following four have the authority to declare Exterminatus on a world, and although it's unclear whether the not-inquisition ones have constraints on what planets they can wreck.

The order for Exterminatus is a death knell for a world, a last resort for the direst of situations. It calls for the complete eradication of all life on a planet. Such a command can only come from the highest ranks of the Imperium - a Space Marine Chapter Master, Lord High Admiral of the Imperial Navy, Lord Commander of the Imperial Guard or an Inquisitor.
-- Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook. "Exterminatus". 6th Edition. print. p154

Dirt-bags? My boys in bronze, slippery sharks in grey and pretty much every othet edgy chapter FW pumps out. Don't get me wrong though, I prefer the edgy special snowflake chapters!

 lcmiracle wrote:

 J3f wrote:

Actually the word used is "often", it's preceded by a paragraph explaining that Space Marine Chapters going Renegade is rare. It's not a matter of throwing everything at the Renegade Space Marine Chapter until they keel over, it's about doing it efficiently. Even the Imperium recognizes when the cost of doing battle is too high. If the Ecclesiarchy wanted to, they could conquer the Space Wolves by declaring Exterminatus on Fenris, but it would be a massive waste of resources.

While Ecclesiarchy has the influence to bring Exterminatus on Fenris, by way of convincing compelling to those who can, they have no authority to issue Eterminatus.

In fact, only the following four have the authority to declare Exterminatus on a world, and although it's unclear whether the not-inquisition ones have constraints on what planets they can wreck.

The order for Exterminatus is a death knell for a world, a last resort for the direst of situations. It calls for the complete eradication of all life on a planet. Such a command can only come from the highest ranks of the Imperium - a Space Marine Chapter Master, Lord High Admiral of the Imperial Navy, Lord Commander of the Imperial Guard or an Inquisitor.
-- Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook. "Exterminatus". 6th Edition. print. p154

Actually, a whole bunch of people can declare exterminatus: a Rogue Trader could (if his warrant said so), and I believe that in the pursuit of a War of Faith, the Ecclesiarchy can do basically whatever they want (not because they're not allowed, but because no-one could really say anything).
And I'd always believed that the Mechanicum and the Ecclesiarchy could do this to self-police, because almost no-one would be able to complain.

But these examples only really work when their representant in the High Lords of Terra's council said he'd let them.

 J3f wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 Shidank wrote:

 J3f wrote:
Nope, The Sisters of Battle are an Inquisitor's first choice in destroying a renegade Space Marine Chapter. They're the only Force in the Imperium Crazy Loyal enough to challenge Space Marines in a fight. Citadel Journal 49 laid it all out in the Ordo Hereticus Strike Force, which was written during 3rd edition. The Sisters of Battle led by an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor launch a surprise attack using Drop Pods and Imperial Navy Strike Cruisers, in an effort to eliminate the Chapters leadership. Space Marines aren't asked to attack their fellow Brothers, unless they have blatantly fallen to Chaos.

I could see an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor doing this, but only because that's exactly what they would be expected to do.

To draw this conclusion from a limited pool of examples seems silly. The Imperium would use any and all available resources to destroy a renegade chapter. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

CJ49 actually is pretty specific that the Sisters are used in an attempt to decaptiate a Chapter command suspected of treason. It actually pretty specifically says they wouldn't try it against an entire Chapter. It also very specifically says "may" do that. Not "always" or "usually" or "first option" or anything like that. Again, it's wishful thinking and selective reading that's turned into another 40K fluff myth. That's the problem with sources most people haven't read and don't have access to.

Actually the word used is "often", it's preceded by a paragraph explaining that Space Marine Chapters going Renegade is rare. It's not a matter of throwing everything at the Renegade Space Marine Chapter until they keel over, it's about doing it efficiently. Even the Imperium recognizes when the cost of doing battle is too high. If the Ecclesiarchy wanted to, they could conquer the Space Wolves by declaring Exterminatus on Fenris, but it would be a massive waste of resources.

The Sisters of Battle are the most efficient way of eliminating a Renegade chapter, the Command Structure can be assumed to include the chapter's Apothecaries dooming the Chapter to a slow death. Of course the Ordo Hereticus doesn't fight fair, they take out the chapter "from the top down", it's not just a matter of Assassinating a lone Chapter Master. If they only had to kill a couple space marines the Officio Assassinorum would be a much more efficient force.

Again with the selective reading. What did I say about what this does to create false myths? At no point are the Sisters described as being an "efficient" (let alone "most efficient", lol). In fact, the words describing the success rate of the mission are "with any hope of successfully".



Let's just clear this up for the people who don't have as many Citadel Journals.

There we go. CJ49. It does use the word often. However, context is important. At no point though does it suggest this is the first priority, nor that Sororitas are the "go to" for taking down Space Marine Chapters. Just that sometimes an Inquisitor may try to decapitate a Chapter's leadership, (often perishing horribly in the attempt), and often they will try it with Sisters of Battle. We already know from the fluff that the "go to" is the Grey Knights or other Space Marines because there are a few dozen examples in the fluff of this happening, and roughly two (unsuccessful) examples of the Sisters doing it.

Remember kids, Inquisitors don't always make good decisions. Hence why they'd try to attack genetically engineered super warriors with a small force of crazed battle nuns and no exfiltration plan.

"Drop Pod into the middle of a Space Marine Chapter to kill its leaders, then hope the rest of them see reason?"
"Yeah, why wouldn't that work?"

Not only is there no fluff support for the idea of Sisters being the "Go to" for taking down Space Marines, we know that the Space Marines have, at least twice, taken down the Ecclesiarch and the Sisters have been unable to stop them. Probably because Sisters of Battle are just fanatical space clerics with good gear, and the Space Marines are fanatical seven foot tall bioengineered killing machines.

@Veteran Sergeant

They did fail to take down Vandire during the Reign of Blood. At least three Chapters and an entire army of the Adeptus Mechanicus were massacred by the Brides of the Emperor (the old name of SoB) when they attempted an Drop Pod assault on the Imperial Palace. It's the Brides who killed the Ecclesiarch not any Space Marine. They were still recovering from their defeat and planning a long siege (seems like clerics of a god of war can pack a mean punch). In fact, from the list of Ecclesiarch on Lexicanum. One was poisonned, one killed by Alicia and one executed by Vandire to usurp his post. I don't see any Ecclesiarch killed by Space Marines or even overthrown by them. Could you provide the event in which they killed the Ecclesiarch and why?

Sounds like the Sisters are only the "go to" when they know they can't persuade a space marine chapter that killing this chapter would be justified.

The Space Wolves aren't near outcasts of the Imperium either. Not even close. Some individuals (or maybe a faction) within the Inquisition don't like them, and the Ecclesiarchy certainly doesn't (but then, the Ecclesiarchy doesn't like anything they don't control including the Mechanicus and most other Marine chapters), but among the general population, Imperial Guard and their peers among Space Marines, the Wolves are generally well-liked and (at the very least) respected. Ten thousand years of loyalty on the front lines still commands some respect even in the Grim Darkness (or is that Dark Grimness?) of 40K.

In fact, Logan Grimnar is one of the Imperiurm most well-known and beloved military commanders.
He used to (I dunno if he still does) even have a special rule reflecting this FFS!

Cooperation with the Wolves isn't that problematic either - as long as you ask nicely and don't try to boss them around. As has been said before, Marine Chapters are virtually autonomous, and guard this autonomy jealously, the Wolves moreso than most because of their individualistic and direct nature.

What I've seen is text that provides a scenario for fielding a Space Marine army against Sororitas, nothing to suggest that Sisters of Battle are the primary means of dealing with renegades. Arguing on pedantic talking points is getting nowhere.

As for the dirtbag chapters, what was the story on the Grey Knights knowing the Dark Angel's secret?

Biggest dirt bags?
1- Dark Angels: As has been pointed out they will abandon or even turn on other space marines if there is a hint of a fallen being about. Sure the Minotaurs and Carchardons have killed their share of allies, but they don't pretend to be anything they are not.
2- Space Wolves: Hey, we don't use psykers, we use *magic*! No, not sorcery, that's bad juju. We have a *magic* planet and *magic* talismans, and *magic* ice weapons. But we hate psykers. Also we call ourselves "The Emperor's Executioners" but it's bad when the Minotaurs do the same job for his proxy.
3- Minotaurs, Marines Malevolent, etc: I never said these guys were much better, but at least the Carcharodons are what they are and don't make up excuses.

Taking the suggestions here, would we be able to make a poll on this? Would there be sufficient discussion remaining to justify a new thread?

If not, we can let this die here. I'm happy with the amount of discourse we've seen.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Space Wolves, by dooming all of humanity to Chaos by not following the orders of the only organizations that hold Chaos at bay (the Ecclesiarchy and the Inquisition).

bah! you just want easy killing of loyal guardsmen inquisitor

What about when the Ecclesiarchy showed up at Fenris to make sure the Emperor was being worshipped well and good instead of tribal deities Chaos, and the Fang fired at them as soon as they left Warp.

Like, the Ecclesiarchy was literally like "Anything wrong here? No? Good!" and moving along, but when they got to Fenris they said "Anything wrong here?" and instead of an answer got gigantic laser cannons to the face.

Dirtbags.

EDIT:
Or the time the Inquisition was like "Go on a penitence crusade!" like they've done to several chapters in history and the Space Wolves gave them a face-full of laser fire.

1) ecclesiarchy should know that space marines don't have to, and usualy don't for that matter, worship the emperor as a god.
2) Are we ignoring the fact that the inquisition fired on the space wolves ships as a sort of "I'm upset that you won't let me kill the guardsmen"? or the fact that the inquisition then tried to invade fenris, and got kicked in for being dicks?

We pretty much let the Inquisition thing die off.