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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/04 10:06:36
Subject: Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating on the Golden Throne?
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Thermo-Optical Hac Tao
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Ah I might have been thinking of the KNF quote instead then. I knew he said about it at some point haha.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/04 10:27:06
Subject: Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating on the Golden Throne?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Edited by insaniak. Seriously, let it go, and stick to the topic.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/04 10:40:13
KMFDM |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/04 18:46:03
Subject: Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating on the Golden Throne?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Thank god for mods.
I don't see him browsing for long. I wonder how being a perpetual affects the Star Child theory?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/04 18:52:06
Subject: Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating on the Golden Throne?
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Thermo-Optical Hac Tao
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What exactly is the Star Child theory? I've seen that term a few times but I'm afraid im not familiar with it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/04 19:31:42
Subject: Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating on the Golden Throne?
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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ImAGeek wrote:What exactly is the Star Child theory? I've seen that term a few times but I'm afraid im not familiar with it.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Star_Child
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It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/04 19:33:43
Subject: Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating on the Golden Throne?
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Thermo-Optical Hac Tao
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Thank you.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/05 16:53:00
Subject: Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating on the Golden Throne?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Vulkan is a true perpetual, he was born with it right? He fell through the atmosphere of Macragge, burned up and died, then his body regenerated back to normal. Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/05 17:02:41
Subject: Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating on the Golden Throne?
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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Johnnytorrance wrote:Vulkan is a true perpetual, he was born with it right? He fell through the atmosphere of Macragge, burned up and died, then his body regenerated back to normal. Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating?
...because he isn't dead yet? He is, biologically speaking, still alive.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/05 17:21:22
Subject: Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating on the Golden Throne?
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Thermo-Optical Hac Tao
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Deadshot wrote: Johnnytorrance wrote:Vulkan is a true perpetual, he was born with it right? He fell through the atmosphere of Macragge, burned up and died, then his body regenerated back to normal. Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating?
...because he isn't dead yet? He is, biologically speaking, still alive.
It would be better then, if he did die? Because depending on which theory you follow, either he'll be reborn as a warp God, or he'll regenerate being a perpetual.
I wonder if the Council of Terra know that and are keeping him as he is because they don't want to relinquish control...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/05 17:47:10
Subject: Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating on the Golden Throne?
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Roarin' Runtherd
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ImAGeek wrote: Deadshot wrote: Johnnytorrance wrote:Vulkan is a true perpetual, he was born with it right? He fell through the atmosphere of Macragge, burned up and died, then his body regenerated back to normal. Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating?
...because he isn't dead yet? He is, biologically speaking, still alive.
It would be better then, if he did die? Because depending on which theory you follow, either he'll be reborn as a warp God, or he'll regenerate being a perpetual.
I wonder if the Council of Terra know that and are keeping him as he is because they don't want to relinquish control...
I don't think we have any evidence to support the high lords knowing this or not, but even if they did it wouldn't likey be fear of control that makes them stop his death, but fear of the whole "what if". There is two large theories, but in their nature no one can know what will actually happen. He could become a malevolent warp entity, or he could even simply die, and that be that. Regardless, it would be kinda a 50/50 shot for something good to even happen, so I doubt anyone would take thr chance. Isn't the head of the ecclisarchy a high lord too? Not exactly likely he would let his supposed god and focus of his very existence die.
Regardless, there is the guaranteed problem that the astromonica explodes, since without his body/conduit emps can't power it directly. Maybe if some of those primarchs still out there got to terra they could finish his webway project to some extent...if it wasn't for theinfinte deamons in the basement.
Yeah, mankind is still screwed it seems
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Painted Armies
1350 With DreadMob budz
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/05 19:13:16
Subject: Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating on the Golden Throne?
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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The only options are not "Warp God" or "Regenerate". There is, as previously mentioned, the option where the Emperor is re-born to human parents as a baby, just like he was in 8000 BC, and then has to go about learning everything all over again.
This would be very, very bad for Mankind, because it makes the living Emperor extremely vulnerable.
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It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/05 19:18:00
Subject: Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating on the Golden Throne?
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Dakka Veteran
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2nd Law of Thermodynamics.
Everything falls to Chaos.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/05 19:25:33
Subject: Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating on the Golden Throne?
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Thermo-Optical Hac Tao
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Psienesis wrote:The only options are not "Warp God" or "Regenerate". There is, as previously mentioned, the option where the Emperor is re-born to human parents as a baby, just like he was in 8000 BC, and then has to go about learning everything all over again.
This would be very, very bad for Mankind, because it makes the living Emperor extremely vulnerable.
We've seen Perpetuals in the Horus Heresy series and none of them worked like that. I don't see why he would be different.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/05 20:08:39
Subject: Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating on the Golden Throne?
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Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine
Massachusetts
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ImAGeek wrote: Psienesis wrote:The only options are not "Warp God" or "Regenerate". There is, as previously mentioned, the option where the Emperor is re-born to human parents as a baby, just like he was in 8000 BC, and then has to go about learning everything all over again.
This would be very, very bad for Mankind, because it makes the living Emperor extremely vulnerable.
We've seen Perpetuals in the Horus Heresy series and none of them worked like that. I don't see why he would be different.
Well something is going to have to be different, otherwise there will be no need for the Golden Throne to be a life support machine after his fight with Horus. The old fluff is that Horus did so much damage to the Emperor's soul he actually lost his immortality, so I guess for now that explanation is still valid.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/05 20:10:29
Subject: Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating on the Golden Throne?
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Thermo-Optical Hac Tao
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I don't really know. I'm mostly just thinking out loud anyway.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/05 22:52:44
Subject: Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating on the Golden Throne?
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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ImAGeek wrote:
It would be better then, if he did die? Because depending on which theory you follow, either he'll be reborn as a warp God, or he'll regenerate being a perpetual.
I wonder if the Council of Terra know that and are keeping him as he is because they don't want to relinquish control...
Various bits of the Administratum, and factions within the Inquisition, hold that belief. Unfortunately, convincing the rest of the Administratum and Inquisition that letting the Emperor die is a good idea is not an easy task...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/05 23:03:38
Subject: Re:Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating on the Golden Throne?
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Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant
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There is the option that the High Lords really really really don't want to relinquish control.
BUT, if it was the simple case of allowing him to die to be reborn, either the emperor himself would have suggested it, or the Primarch's whilst they were still around would have done it I imagine.
So, the theory I most agree with is, that the rift in the web way project is so volatile, that even minutes without them em on the throne controlling it and the astronomicam would spell absolute doom for Terra and/or the Imperium. Hence when you get round to the grey knights super secret box/key last resort thing, it must be that a black crusade has succeeded, Terra is on the verge of being lost and is more or less unrecoverable and so the emperor isn't needed any longer to hold back the nasties of the doomed webway as there is nothing to left to protect. A hail mary so to speak.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/05 23:04:14
My hobby instagram account: @the_shroud_of_vigilance
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/05 23:22:09
Subject: Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating on the Golden Throne?
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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insaniak wrote: ImAGeek wrote:
It would be better then, if he did die? Because depending on which theory you follow, either he'll be reborn as a warp God, or he'll regenerate being a perpetual.
I wonder if the Council of Terra know that and are keeping him as he is because they don't want to relinquish control...
Various bits of the Administratum, and factions within the Inquisition, hold that belief. Unfortunately, convincing the rest of the Administratum and Inquisition that letting the Emperor die is a good idea is not an easy task...
thing is we also know it;'s possiable for a perpetual to LOSE his "perpetualness" if I was going to put down MONEY on how the seige of terra will end, Horus dies, kills Ollanius Peerson, with it being left absolutly CLEAR Horus had the power to kill perpetuals, and the emperor being put in the golden throne, in part because even HE'S not sure what'll happen once he succumbs to his wounds. In short the HH series will end with the "great question" being made ambigious.
Thats how I'd do it at any rate
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/05 23:22:26
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/06 00:12:14
Subject: Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating on the Golden Throne?
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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Is there anything in the existing fluff that suggests that the Emperor is himself aware of his supposed status as a perpetual? Everything I've seen is just other people talking about it... and those being people with a vested interest in not helping the Big E out...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/06 00:12:50
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/06 01:14:36
Subject: Re:Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating on the Golden Throne?
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Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions
Caliban
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endlesswaltz123 wrote:There is the option that the High Lords really really really don't want to relinquish control.
BUT, if it was the simple case of allowing him to die to be reborn, either the emperor himself would have suggested it, or the Primarch's whilst they were still around would have done it I imagine.
So, the theory I most agree with is, that the rift in the web way project is so volatile, that even minutes without them em on the throne controlling it and the astronomicam would spell absolute doom for Terra and/or the Imperium. Hence when you get round to the grey knights super secret box/key last resort thing, it must be that a black crusade has succeeded, Terra is on the verge of being lost and is more or less unrecoverable and so the emperor isn't needed any longer to hold back the nasties of the doomed webway as there is nothing to left to protect. A hail mary so to speak.
Yea, I think this is probably it. The moment the Emperor dies, the Empire will collapse (or at least key planets like Terra and Cadia would be immediately lost). Even if the Emperor were aware that he's a perpetual, he might not know how long or where he would reappear. It's simply too great a risk to take when he's the only thing allowing reliable warp travel.
And the perpetual thing is stupid anyway, the Star Child theory at least makes a bit of sense, similar to the Ynnead thing with the Eldar. Plus he's being worshiped as an actual god now so being reborn in the warp (since it's suggested he's a warp entity born from shamans committing mass-suicide) doesn't seem that far-fetched. And Cypher's still supposedly making his way to Terra so maybe we'll get an answer someday...
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And the Angels of Darkness descended on pinions of fire and light... the great and terrible dark angels.
He was not the golden lord. The Emperor will carry us to the stars, but never beyond them. My dreams will be lies, if a golden lord does not rise.
I look to the stars now, with the old scrolls burning runes across my memory. And I see my own hands as I write these words. Erebus and Kor Phaeron speak the truth.
My hands. They, too, are golden. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/06 01:20:09
Subject: Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating on the Golden Throne?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I also hate the "perpetual" thing...my old school notion was the emperor was actually dead..gone..deceased..and the astronomicon was powered by psychers and all the emperor mumbo jumbo..is just the consensual psychic powers of untold trillions of humans thinking about him.
So in life he did not want to be worshiped...but in death his worship gives hope to mankind.
I guess I like my grimdark..a bit grimmer and darker.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/06 03:06:02
Subject: Re:Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating on the Golden Throne?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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EngulfedObject wrote:endlesswaltz123 wrote:There is the option that the High Lords really really really don't want to relinquish control.
BUT, if it was the simple case of allowing him to die to be reborn, either the emperor himself would have suggested it, or the Primarch's whilst they were still around would have done it I imagine.
So, the theory I most agree with is, that the rift in the web way project is so volatile, that even minutes without them em on the throne controlling it and the astronomicam would spell absolute doom for Terra and/or the Imperium. Hence when you get round to the grey knights super secret box/key last resort thing, it must be that a black crusade has succeeded, Terra is on the verge of being lost and is more or less unrecoverable and so the emperor isn't needed any longer to hold back the nasties of the doomed webway as there is nothing to left to protect. A hail mary so to speak.
Yea, I think this is probably it. The moment the Emperor dies, the Empire will collapse (or at least key planets like Terra and Cadia would be immediately lost). Even if the Emperor were aware that he's a perpetual, he might not know how long or where he would reappear. It's simply too great a risk to take when he's the only thing allowing reliable warp travel.
And the perpetual thing is stupid anyway, the Star Child theory at least makes a bit of sense, similar to the Ynnead thing with the Eldar. Plus he's being worshiped as an actual god now so being reborn in the warp (since it's suggested he's a warp entity born from shamans committing mass-suicide) doesn't seem that far-fetched. And Cypher's still supposedly making his way to Terra so maybe we'll get an answer someday...
I think because of the creation of the New Man, the 1000s of shaman were or is now the Emperor. According to the Shaman fluff... when they die each of them would be reincarnated. When they formed as a New Man they would never die and they are now immortal together as the New Man. We don't know what is suppose to happen if the Emperor die because he wasn't suppose to. Would the souls of the shaman be reincarnated as individual shaman or would each of them be eaten in the warp?
I really don't see how all the souls would stay in tact and joined together again to form a new version of the New Man or Emperor reborn.
Also, if there is now a warp god Emperor ... I see this warp god as a doppelgänger of the Emperor. It can not be the same person because the Emperor is not really dead.. so the entity in the warp (if there is one) can not be the the Emperor sitting on the Golden Throne.
I think there are:
1 - The New Man who is the Emperor sitting on the Golden Throne and is dying.
2 - A warp god (because of human worshiping him) Emperor in the Warp, this is a doppelgänger of the Emperor and has the same personality... it is a clone of him. I am sure that the New Man and the Warp god Emperor are in communication and are working together for their agenda.
I think once the New Man dies ... all the shaman souls would each be reborn by reincarnation and the Warp god emperor will protect their souls in the Warp, so they are not eaten.
This is actually a good plan if it was the New Man's plan from the beginning. So now the circle is completed. The shaman gets to be back as being Shaman and can live and die and be reincarnated safely by having the Warp god Emperor as protector. The Warp god Emperor is a contender fighting the Chaos gods. The Imperial of man is united under a real warp god to worship and the Imperial can fight the Xenos in the material realm. The shamans will no doubt have roles in the Imperium...they could be the Warp god Emperor priest working for the Ecclesiarchy.
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KMFDM |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/06 03:16:55
Subject: Re:Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating on the Golden Throne?
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Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions
Caliban
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Huh! That actually makes a lot of sense! Never considered the fact that because the Emperor isn't truly dead, the Warp god forming in his name could potentially be a seperate entity! Very interesting idea!
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And the Angels of Darkness descended on pinions of fire and light... the great and terrible dark angels.
He was not the golden lord. The Emperor will carry us to the stars, but never beyond them. My dreams will be lies, if a golden lord does not rise.
I look to the stars now, with the old scrolls burning runes across my memory. And I see my own hands as I write these words. Erebus and Kor Phaeron speak the truth.
My hands. They, too, are golden. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/06 03:20:38
Subject: Re:Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating on the Golden Throne?
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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david choe wrote:Also, if there is now a warp god Emperor ... I see this warp god as a doppelgänger of the Emperor. It can not be the same person because the Emperor is not really dead.. so the entity in the warp (if there is one) can not be the the Emperor sitting on the Golden Throne.
Unless, of course, the Warp Entity is a manifestation of the Emperor in the warp. Astral Projection, essentially.
Would explain why he stopped communicating some time after being put into the Throne. He's not really 'there' anymore.
This is actually a good plan if it was the New Man's plan from the beginning.
The Emperor's plan involved having Magnus on the Throne. Magnus kind of screwed that up.
The Emperor winding up mostly dead and on the Throne instead wasn't a part of the plan.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/06 03:21:05
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/06 03:37:02
Subject: Re:Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating on the Golden Throne?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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insaniak wrote: david choe wrote:Also, if there is now a warp god Emperor ... I see this warp god as a doppelgänger of the Emperor. It can not be the same person because the Emperor is not really dead.. so the entity in the warp (if there is one) can not be the the Emperor sitting on the Golden Throne.
Unless, of course, the Warp Entity is a manifestation of the Emperor in the warp. Astral Projection, essentially.
Would explain why he stopped communicating some time after being put into the Throne. He's not really 'there' anymore.
This is actually a good plan if it was the New Man's plan from the beginning.
The Emperor's plan involved having Magnus on the Throne. Magnus kind of screwed that up.
The Emperor winding up mostly dead and on the Throne instead wasn't a part of the plan.
The Emperor as you think is The New Man. The New Man is 1000s of shaman. The Shaman have no desire to conquer the galaxy or to be a tyrant or any of that. They just wanted for mankind to survive and for peace and harmony. Sometime we forget who or what the New Man is.
We don't know what the New Man ultimate plan is or will be.
From how the Birth of Slaanesh took place. I think once the New Man dies on the Golden Throne... Birth of the Warp god Emperor which is already exist will be unleashed. This new Warp space in and around Terra and this chuck of the galaxy will be his domain and Emperor's "daemons" will be unleashed as well. He is the new Warp "Chaos" god.
Your astral projection could be... but I think the Warp god is already existed for a long time .. it has been 10,000 years in the making. The astral projection is also a "mask" to blind the chaos gods from knowing that there is a real emperor god in the warp.
I don't see how making Magnus on the Throne has anything to do with the New Man's plan. If his plan was to create a Warp god for human to protect his shaman... it came true. I am not saying that he planed Horus heresy to happened...it was an unaccounted "goof" on his part. I think The New Man plans was to unite mankind to form the Imperial and then start introducing a warp god plan. Once he united his people, he can do whatever to make his plan run "smooth".
The Heresy happened, so he needed to make his ultimate plan work any way he can. and this is his plan "B". The New Man knows that he was not suppose to die or the Shaman souls would be eaten. He needed something to protect the shaman in the warp. The only way I can see that is the Shaman needed a god of their own in the warp to protect them.
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KMFDM |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/06 03:51:26
Subject: Re:Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating on the Golden Throne?
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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david choe wrote: insaniak wrote: david choe wrote:Also, if there is now a warp god Emperor ... I see this warp god as a doppelgänger of the Emperor. It can not be the same person because the Emperor is not really dead.. so the entity in the warp (if there is one) can not be the the Emperor sitting on the Golden Throne.
Unless, of course, the Warp Entity is a manifestation of the Emperor in the warp. Astral Projection, essentially.
Would explain why he stopped communicating some time after being put into the Throne. He's not really 'there' anymore.
This is actually a good plan if it was the New Man's plan from the beginning.
The Emperor's plan involved having Magnus on the Throne. Magnus kind of screwed that up.
The Emperor winding up mostly dead and on the Throne instead wasn't a part of the plan.
The Emperor as you think is The New Man. The New Man is 1000s of shaman. The Shaman have no desire to conquer the galaxy or to be a tyrant or any of that. They just wanted for mankind to survive and for peace and harmony. Sometime we forget who or what the New Man is.
We don't know what the New Man ultimate plan is or will be.
From how the Birth of Slaanesh took place. I think once the New Man dies on the Golden Throne... Birth of the Warp god Emperor which is already exist will be unleashed. This new Warp space in and around Terra and this chuck of the galaxy will be his domain and Emperor's "daemons" will be unleashed as well. He is the new Warp "Chaos" god.
Your astral projection could be... but I think the Warp god is already existed for a long time .. it has been 10,000 years in the making. The astral projection is also a "mask" to blind the chaos gods from knowing that there is a real emperor god in the warp.
I don't see how making Magnus on the Throne has anything to do with the New Man's plan. If his plan was to create a Warp god for human to protect his shaman... it came true. I am not saying that he planed Horus heresy to happened...it was an unaccounted "goof" on his part. I think The New Man plans was to unite mankind to form the Imperial and then start introducing a warp god plan. Once he united his people, he can do whatever to make his plan run "smooth".
The Heresy happened, so he needed to make his ultimate plan work any way he can. and this is his plan "B". The New Man knows that he was not suppose to die or the Shaman souls would be eaten. He needed something to protect the shaman in the warp. The only way I can see that is the Shaman needed a god of their own in the warp to protect them.
This is a little confusing to follow... but if I'm understanding you right then it was the Emperor's plan to be interred on the Golden Throne in his current state? Maybe I don't understand. Either way I'm confused. Do you have any written evidence of this stuff or is this personal interpretation?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/06 03:58:09
Subject: Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating on the Golden Throne?
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Roarin' Runtherd
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I think it is important to refer to the emperor warp entity as not a "Chaos" god. You need to remember the immaterium is naturally peaceful, it was just many years of twisted souls being poured into the dimension that made all the "chaos", and as such not everything native there is exactly of the chaos nature (like the eldar gods), merely most of it. There is a very good reason the chaos gods fear the emperor, he is pretty much the exact opposite force of them, order.
So all in all, he would not likely be a "Chaos God", but an "Order God", more or less a super beefed up version of the Eldar gods Automatically Appended Next Post: Ignatius wrote: david choe wrote: insaniak wrote:[quote=david choe 638076 7646309 161b28c815a6d874c70b82c946277a7f.png
This is a little confusing to follow... but if I'm understanding you right then it was the Emperor's plan to be interred on the Golden Throne in his current state? Maybe I don't understand. Either way I'm confused. Do you have any written evidence of this stuff or is this personal interpretation?
It is certainly not his original plan, but it is what he is stuck with at this point. This is all just conjunction on how he has been planning around the situation to carry out his original plan, something he has had 10,000 years today. So unless he has been doing nothing but fighting deamons all this time, he has ought to have some brilliant way to fix this mistake one way or another.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/06 04:04:48
Painted Armies
1350 With DreadMob budz
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/06 04:22:49
Subject: Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating on the Golden Throne?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Flame-Rage wrote:I think it is important to refer to the emperor warp entity as not a "Chaos" god. You need to remember the immaterium is naturally peaceful, it was just many years of twisted souls being poured into the dimension that made all the "chaos", and as such not everything native there is exactly of the chaos nature (like the eldar gods), merely most of it. There is a very good reason the chaos gods fear the emperor, he is pretty much the exact opposite force of them, order.
So all in all, he would not likely be a "Chaos God", but an "Order God", more or less a super beefed up version of the Eldar gods
Correct!
That is why I put "chaos" in quotation. The term should just be warp god. The warp was natural and peaceful before Chaos gods took over. The Shaman were peaceful and enjoy the beauty of being reincarnated in the warp also. Chaos screwed it up for everybody.
@Ignatius
I went a little fast.
The whole story of 40k between man vs Chaos is really like this. It is more like a showdown between shaman vs chaos gods.
I hope you know the fluff about shaman and the new man.
I quick remainder of the Shaman.
Shaman were being eaten by chaos gods when they die. So they formed the New Man. The New Man mission was to defend humanity from Chaos, survival of mankind, and most important of all for Shaman survival.
The New Man took may guise in the history of humanity. The last one is the Emperor (I don't think the Emperor was suppose to be his last, but gak happened). This is why I disagree with many who view the Emperor as a tyrant or evil dictator.... he is beyond that. The Emperor is just another guise of the New Man. His ultimate mission is much more than political ambition or wealth based.
How can the shaman survive if Chaos gods are around? The only way is to beat Chaos and create their own god to fight chaos or at the very least, a protector warp god in the warp to protect their souls so they can be reincarnated as how it has always been.
I think to achieve this ultimate goal is to built the Imperium and united all men. Issue the Imperial Truth.
Then slowly introduce himself as a god Emperor and so mankind can worship him and create a doppelgänger of him in the warp as a new Warp god.
After mankind ruled the galaxy in the material realm and a the warp god Emperor exist in the warp. The Imperium will rule with true science and true god... the New Man might disappear again as he always has in the long history of the New Man. Who knows... he might just release all the shaman souls ... so each shaman can be reborn in this new safe warp space and new safe galaxy for mankind. The New man will cease to exist.
All of this could have been done by 32,000 AD or something. But it didn't because freaking Chaos gods didn't want that and caused Horus Heresy.
The New Man was really screwed and had to make plan B and use it the best he can. He can't die right away back in 30,000AD or the chaos gods would have eaten the 1,000s shaman souls.
This new plan B is what we have in the current 40K...it took almost 10,000 years. Way longer and almost failed many times... gak.. it might even fail now!
Now the New Man or the Emperor is ready to die. There is a Warp god Emperor in the Warp to protect the shaman souls for them to be reincarnated. The Emperor dies... and the shaman can be reborn. The Imperium might have some set back... but with a true warp god and many shamans on their side.. man kind have a very good chance at defeating Chaos and other xenos.
This is all my PO, but based on the fluff.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/06 04:31:18
KMFDM |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/06 04:37:30
Subject: Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating on the Golden Throne?
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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Well that is surely a fair interpretation of it. I knew of the creation story behind the Emperor in regards to the shaman's coming together.
I'll ask you this question though: What was the originally reason the shaman's came together- BESIDES- the safety of their souls?
Did their action have an altruistic intent? Or was it simply to protect their own souls?
Of course the Emperor was a tyrant-and oddly enough still is. Well based on the historical use of the word at least. I think you're definitely referring more to the other part you were saying about being an evil dictator. But this is a point of semantics.
Another question for the whole thread: How do we know that the Emperor isn't dead already? His apparent godlike powers (mostly regarding much of the claims made in the Sisters of Battle codex- like acts of faith and the sainthood of many individuals) seem to suggest that he has transcended this plain of existence and is already in power in the warp.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/06 05:01:16
Subject: Why is the Emperor's body deteriorating on the Golden Throne?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Ignatius wrote:Well that is surely a fair interpretation of it. I knew of the creation story behind the Emperor in regards to the shaman's coming together.
I'll ask you this question though: What was the originally reason the shaman's came together- BESIDES- the safety of their souls?
Did their action have an altruistic intent? Or was it simply to protect their own souls?
Of course the Emperor was a tyrant-and oddly enough still is. Well based on the historical use of the word at least. I think you're definitely referring more to the other part you were saying about being an evil dictator. But this is a point of semantics.
Another question for the whole thread: How do we know that the Emperor isn't dead already? His apparent godlike powers (mostly regarding much of the claims made in the Sisters of Battle codex- like acts of faith and the sainthood of many individuals) seem to suggest that he has transcended this plain of existence and is already in power in the warp.
Based on the Fluff. It was suggested that Shaman were around before or during human prehistoric (depends which version of the fluff). The original fluff stated that the Shaman were around millions of years ago. That is not so important. The Shaman always nurture and guide human, we can assume they helped human evolved like teaching us fire or toolmaking or love and peace. The Warp was also a peaceful place. This part must be strongly stated.
From that crux of it... we can assume that the Shaman role is to help humans. If the shaman died, then human will die. You ask me what was the reason they came together, well... the safety would be their #1, self preservation and #2, would be to continue helping human.
I think their action was and is always to help and protect human.
You want to view the Emperor as the Emperor then go ahead and you want to see him as a tyrant, then go ahead. I never view the Emperor as an Emperor. I see him as the New Man. I understand the New Man's mission and the Emperor is and was just another guise of his. When one of his guise in the past was a tyrant or a messiah, I don't get confuse with the small details in the scale of a few hundred years or even a thousand years of what that guise did... because his mission was beyond that. This hang up on the Emperor of what he did... was only a few hundred years in the New Man's long history.
Is the Emperor dead? I don't think so. However, I have no doubt that there is a Warp god Emperor but he is not yet ready to be reveal. Who is helping the sister? Either the New Man psychic power or the Warp god Emperor (new man doppelgänger ) is doing it.
Why do I think the Emperor is not dead?
Because the current Imperium is not what he wanted. He wanted his Imperium to be based on true science, this is not. When the Emperor choose to die...he will release the shamans souls and the warp god emperor will protect them....may be a new New Man will form or maybe many shamans will come to assist mankind. But the warp god Emperor will show himself and tell the Imperium that this is not the way. Since none of this has happened and it seems like the same gak everyday since 30,000 AD... I assume that the Emperor or the New Man is still sitting there on the Golden Throne plotting and waiting for the right time.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/06 05:12:44
KMFDM |
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